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Fair comment James, except of course I have not said that if you don't support my plan, you are not an Independence supporter. Someone may have a better plan than me. What I did say precisely is that if you are not prepared unarmed to stand in front of a British army tank, you are not a rea Independence supporter. I stand by that..
ReplyDeleteThe problem with your plan is that it is predicated on trusting the SNP that if we vote for them yet again, they will actually do something this time. An ever shrinking number of people are prepared to do this. The gap between Independence support and SNP support is 20% and growing, as nobody should know better than you.
Is the Tank Test the new Tebbit Test?
Deleteno you have to get on a bike
DeleteYou stand in front of the tank Craig. The rest of us Indy supporters will be right behind you. (Sarcasm) How very patronising of you a man who worked for the British Government for years to state that the only real Independence supporters are those willing to stand in front of a British Army tank. Where will you be when violence breaks out from those who do not support Scottish UDI.
DeleteNo, it's the tank test. Grateful you address my criticism of your plan.
ReplyDelete"No, it's the tank test."
DeleteI can't totally 100% promise that I'd willingly face death by tank crushing. Is it all over for me in the independence movement?
"Grateful you address my criticism of your plan."
Is that supposed to be sarcasm? Your criticism was so obviously bogus I didn't think it needed addressing. If the fatal flaw in my plan is supposed to be that the SNP would have to implement it, exactly the same flaw self-evidently applies to your own plan. We already know for a fact that there will be an SNP government on the date you suggest we declare UDI.
With respect that is not the point of my criticism of your plan. My plan involves the SNP government doing something now. Your plan involves the current SNP government doing nothing but take their paychecks, and then everyone voting SNP yet again on the promise they would actually do something afterwards.
ReplyDeleteThere are not enough idiots in Scotland to vote SNP yet again if they have done nothing on Independence.
I'm seriously struggling to follow this line of argument. If you truly believe all of these awful things about the SNP, why are you so convinced you can persuade John Swinney to *declare UDI* (a far more drastic step than anything I'm suggesting) in 2029, ie. during his current term of office? It doesn't really make sense, does it?
DeleteThe SNP will do the square root of hew haw regarding independence. You ken it I ken it and every person and their dugs ken it.
DeleteI wouldnt bother replying James.
DeleteAch there's always the New Scotland Party !
DeleteAnon@12.51pm clearly is the poster who just loves to tell people what to say or not say or just go away somewhere. The anti- free speech hero of SGP. The man with no ability to post a considered and reasoned argument.
DeleteThe simplest plan is: win the popular vote in an election.
ReplyDeleteTrying to strategise your way around, over or under that simple barrier isn't going to work, because if we do not have it in hand then all your clever schemes can be undone by a confirmatory referendum.
To be honest, at this point, I’d rather stand in front of a tank than vote SNP. At least the former achieves something, even if it’s death, while the latter does nothing except another false promise of a “de-facto referendum” somewhere along the line, which we know the SNP will never act upon.
ReplyDeleteOkay Stu.
Deletewe want you to satnd in front of a tank but it would be a bit messy Just like the argument it would end in failure and not even heroic.
DeleteI think the ambassador (he is spoiling us) probably edges it.
ReplyDeleteXander Elliards writes the worst hackneyed "woke-pish" churnalism in Scotland; if you want the fragrant middle class fashionable take on anything, he is your man. Oh wait ... "man" ... did I misgender him? DID I ASSUME HIS GENDER ...
- maybe he should write a piece about that.
Close call, but it's Murray all the way for me.
At least he'll have Pixie Lott to support his madcap ideas!
DeleteAhh 1057am independence is dependant on your gender?
DeleteSwinney made his performative S30 request, got the knock-back he expected and duly accepted it.
ReplyDeleteHe will do no more - the dogs in the street know that
What more can he do?
Delete10.20pm Swinney could resign as he is useless. As are you anon.
DeleteUDI nor any direct steps towards it by the Scottish Government in 2029 can not happen democratically currently, as neither the SNP nor the Greens had it in their 2026 Holyrood election manifesto.
ReplyDeleteThey would have to change their manifesto to specifically state it for the 2029 UK General Election. Something like Sinn Féin in 1918:
"Sinn Féin gives Ireland the opportunity of vindicating her honour and pursuing with renewed confidence the path of national salvation by rallying to the flag of the Irish Republic.
Sinn Féin aims at securing the establishment of that Republic.
1. By withdrawing the Irish Representation from the British Parliament and by denying the right and opposing the will of the British Government or any other foreign Government to legislate for Ireland.
2. By making use of any and every means available to render impotent the power of England to hold Ireland in subjection by military force or otherwise.
3. By the establishment of a constituent assembly comprising persons chosen by Irish constituencies as the supreme national authority to speak and act in the name of the Irish people, and to develop Ireland's social, political and industrial life, for the welfare of the whole people of Ireland.
4. By appealing to the Peace Conference for the establishment of Ireland as an Independent Nation. At that conference the future of the Nations of the world will be settled on the principle of government by consent of the governed. Ireland's claim to the application of that principle in her favour is not based on any accidental situation arising from the war. It is older than many if not all of the present belligerents. It is based on our unbroken tradition of nationhood, on a unity in a national name which has never been challenged, on our possession of a distinctive national culture and social order, on the moral courage and dignity of our people in the face of alien aggression, on the fact that in nearly every generation, and five times within the past 120 years our people have challenged in arms the right of England to rule this country. On these incontrovertible facts is based the claim that our people have beyond question established the right to be accorded all the power of a free nation."
https://celt.ucc.ie/published/E900009/index.html
and click on "The text" on the LHS.
The problem is, that unlike Ireland, so far this century, the general public of Scotland have not been attacked, and women and children have not been falsely kidnapped and imprisoned in the likes of Wales. Which totally enraged much of the population of Ireland.
The Easter Rising itself had little support. UDI would similarly currently have little support.
A very interesting post from the Swinney supporter yesindyref2 who was convinced Swinney was the man to deliver indyref2. Swinney is “noindyref2”.
DeleteYou got it all wrong yesindyref2. Did you ever ask yourself does Swinney have a back up plan if no sec 30? I doubt it. The answer is clear. Swinney is a devolutionist and he has no desire for any back up plan for independence. Like Sturgeon he is happiest when attending Pride marches.
A very interesting reply from Anon at 6:33 PM about Swinney; however, I didn't mention Swinney in my posting.
DeleteBut now you've kindly introduced Swinney to the discussion, he could actually be the exception, as he has intimated BEFORE THE ELECTION though not in those words, that he has a "secret plan", so if the new UK PM continues to deny an internal route to self-determination for Scotland and the People of Scotland - e.g. a referendum on our constitutional status with the question:
"Should Scotland be an Independent Country?"
then Swinney is the one man, with the pro-independence majority in Holyrood, who could indeed justify UDI.
Thanks for the opportunity to put the record straight :-)
yrf2 grasp on Irish history is based on his belief of the veracity of Wikipedia. He misses deliberately the actual consequences of the Easter Rising which were the public outrage over the British executions which caused a massive shift towards Irish Independence and the political rise of Sinn Fein.
DeleteMore the likes of Dorothy Macardle, other books, and websites ending ".ie", but you're right about the executions being a factor.
DeleteYir2@ 7.58pm anon@ 6.33pm is correct about you. You are an unashamed Swinney fanboy.
DeleteIs that you Rev ?
DeleteAnon at 12:54 PM "fanboy"
DeleteYou have a maturity well beyond your 5 years - perhaps you could give e5440 Dell-boy below a lesson in history when you're in P1?
Only Craig Murray decides who supports Independence for Scotland! Did he not stand for pro Brit parties in the past?
ReplyDeleteAs a diplomat did mr Murray at the pledge himself to the sovereign as well at the British State. I haven’t .
ReplyDelete1.05pm but all the SNP MPs and MSPs have also pledged allegiance
Deleteto the English King and the English UK.
So did I when I tried to set up a branch of the WI in Kelso in the Scottish Borders. They had something called the WRI already but it sounded like a communist front to me, and I should know!
Deleteand stood for election in england
DeleteI do not know how long it's going to take folk to understand that Craig Murray has never before or now ever supported Scottish independence, he's as British as there is, the man is a fraud and always has been, in exactly the same way as Stuart Campbell, they'll take your money and tell you anything that will make you send them more of it, and arguing with them just gives them credibility and oxygen
ReplyDelete1.05pm that post works well when you change Murray/Campbell to Sturgeon/Swinney.
DeleteI know someone who actually has a tank. Independence supporter testing can be arranged. My pal probably isn't willing to murder people in this compo, so Craig Murray will have to drive it.
ReplyDeleteUp for it, Craig? Although, realistically, the proceedure will probably decrease the number of independence supporters by zero, and if it didn't one of them would be back in prison.
Can it also be used as a test for true supporters of Count Binface? And can tanks be driven to the Lunar surface?
Doesn't Kezia Dugdale have a tank. She thinks in it.
DeleteIs it the same one Ruth Davidson jumped in to honour her heroine Thatcher?
DeleteNo. It's a tank top belonging to Alexander Johnson, stagename Boris.
DeleteI like Craig, but his plan is sheer lunacy and his 'tank test' is completely idiotic.
ReplyDeleteMyself, my wife, our son, most of our friends and his friends are ardent Indy Supporters, but would we give up our lives by being tank-crushed for Indy?
Not a chance.
And my guess is that 90% plus of my fellow Yessers would say the same.
The 10% who would pass Craig's test, have both my admiration and my spare straightjackets.
Anon at 3.37pm I don't think Craig needed to mention a tank etc. It's a distraction. Now anon why don't you explain your reasons for saying his plan is " lunacy " or should we just take your word for it?
DeleteWhat actually is the legal status of Scotland?
ReplyDeleteThe ratification of the acts of union did not take place.
The Scottish parliament was dismissed by Queen Anne before she had the power to do so, whilst Scotland was still a sovereign country.
Are we a colony or are we still a sovereign nation who could say that our parliament has been reconvened from 1707 and we will recover all the reserved powers that have been illegally imposed upon us?
Hi Andrew.
DeleteGood questions.
Are you aware of Scottish Liberation and their work representing Scotlands case to the United Nations?
They are working towards receiving some sort of recognition of Scotlands legal position, as determined by the UN.
Are we an annexed territory?
Are we being denied the human right of self determination?
Will the other countries of the world vote on the floor of the UN General Assembly that Scotland will be recognised as an international state separate from England?
In that case the UK would cease to exist so it is almost guaranteed that England would lose its seat as one of the permanent 5 members (and its veto) on the Security Council.
The SNP should have been doing this all over the last 10 years.
Craig Murrray is part of that team.
Ignore the lairs and shit-throwers!
;-)
Yes I am aware.
DeleteFascinating detail of the dirty tricks around the Acts of Union all here: https://angrypict.substack.com/p/annexation-the-uk-exists-because
has Liberation got us independence yet? Asking for a tank driver.
Delete
Delete@AnonymousAugust 1, 2026 at 10:23 AM
"has Liberation got us independence yet? Asking for a tank driver."
I like an anonymous quip as well as the next anonymous quipper, but this comment serves to bring realities to the fore.
Rather than lampooning Craig Murray and Liberation one is reminded:
The SNP had a gigantic majority of MPs.
They squandered the opportunity.
The SNP+Greens have won every SP election.
They had a majority of seats and even won >50% of the vote.
They squandered every advantage.
They have played into the hands of the centralising and controlling Whitehall machine.
They COULD have resourced all sorts of outreach, preparation and planning for making progress.
They have done less than nothing.
They have betrayed those voters and their members.
Scotland needs action, not devolutionary submission.
A lurker. Are you aware that the application is absolutely without merit and will be rejected, giving the Unionists yet more ammunition to fire from their toxic MSM and BBC outlets? You need to think before you act, and then do nothing. Best for Indy.
DeleteAnon @2.40pm - only a unionist would say it is best to do nothing about Scottish independence.
DeleteAnon at 2.50. Is lying about what people say your default behaviour?
DeleteAs the Acts of Union were prevented from being ratified or denied by the representatives of the sovereign Scottish people and because the Scottish Parliament was dissolved by Queen Anne days before she had the legal power to do so while Scotland was still a still a sovereign country, are we a colony or can the Scottish Parliament actually reconvene as they were meant to do 300 plus years ago and assert their right to restore control over the reserved powers that have been denied them ?
ReplyDeleteIf family man John Swinney is hardcore anything it's more likely tae be as a GBX fan.
DeleteQueen Anne was the sovereign. She could do what she liked, and it was by definition legal.
DeleteJohn Swinney to set an independence date for Scotland is truly a laugh out loud moment. The only date Swinney is wondering about is his own independence ( retirement ) date and mulling over whether he could buy a motorhome to use in his retirement without being investigated by the Police. The guy is hardcore devolutionist.
ReplyDeleteHi IfS !
DeleteCraig Murray is a good guy with a great sense of right and wrong. How can it be better to have no plan for independence, like the SNP, than at least try a way forward even if it fails.
ReplyDeleteAll you numpties who have been supporting the crooked Sturgeon, Yousaf and now Swinney have wasted the last 12 years. 12 years that presented many excellent opportunities for independence action but the SNP leadership sat on their backsides and did nothing but present policies that were unpopular in Scotland.
You should be hanging your head in shame but some of you still come on SGP and post all manner of daft excuses for the SNP leadership.
You should be handing over your file of evidence on sturgeon to the police? Why are you not doing so? Because you are a sad wee Billy Liar wannabe? Yep.
DeleteYou are a complete and total imbecile IFS, with what must certainly have been a particularly low schooling attendance
DeleteIfS needs permission first from his buddy in Somerset.
DeleteIt took two days for the lowlife trash at 2.38, 10.31 and 10.57 to read and respond to my post. Slow readers with very limited intellect.
DeleteSo IFSy you haven’t got any evidence for your allegations against Sturgeon. There’s a surprise. What a sad little man you are.
DeleteI suppose he could live in Barcelona or Baurrheid. Does ?ifs want to be the chauffeur?
ReplyDeleteSame old, same old...
ReplyDeleteLike it or not the fight lies in the SNP. Win a conference majority for a popular mandate followed by piece by piece disengagement. This will only be achieved by changing the minds of members and using that to remove and replace the troughing present leadership.
A big task but more realistic than either of the dead end notions being discussed here.
Alt Clut so you will be a fully paid up member of the SNP and attend all the conferences and vote?
DeleteSummary of Westminster voting intention polls this week, weighted for population sample (assuming BMG Research poll was 1,000 strong), gives Labour a 1.9% lead over Reform UK.
ReplyDeleteA testament to Burnham’s presentational skills (comparative to Starmer) and his charisma (Starmer didn’t have one). Also an indication of what’s possible if you have a positive message and promise change.
I didn’t expect John Swinney to emerge from the last election victory with the same degree of enthusiasm and vigour as Burnham is presently displaying. John is a continuity First Minister, and he had a Cabinet to form. Also the gap between the election and the summer recess wasn’t conducive to big announcements. John will need to come back from the break fully recharged, with some positive developments to launch.
He should start with the major review of QUANGOS he promised before the election. These bodies are fully out of control. The Water Industry Regulator for Scotland, Historic Environment Scotland, etcetera are a liability and a constant source of bad publicity. These comfortable bolt holes for self serving middle class parasites need to be shut down or brought back under direct government control and democratic scrutiny.
BBC radio on “Scottish Papers” front pages in order of importance. Herald on Sunday, Sunday Mirror (all about Burnham), Scotland on Sunday, Sunday Post, Observer. Anyone think there is a particular bias to their judgement.
ReplyDeleteAfter all this rubbish from Craig we need a sensible plan. My question would be is there any milage in a velvet divorce path like Slovakia followed
ReplyDeleteWestminster voting intention Multilevel Regression & Poststratification from Convergent Opinion *, field work 25 - 30 July, population sample 10,919.
ReplyDeleteRaw percentage figures:
Lab 26.1% RefUK 23.2%, Con 20.7%, LibDem 11.3%, Green 10.0%, SNP 1.7%, Plaid 1.0%.
Seat projection:
Lab 245, RefUK 174, Con 99, LibDem 67, SNP 25, Plaid Cymru 8, others 7, Green 7.
No Right wing route to a majority. Labour, LibDems and Greens will just get over the line.
A poor number of seats for the SNP (but arguably high for 1.7% of UK vote). A remarkably good seat projection for Plaid Cymru on 1.0% of UK vote.
* Polling brand for Red Compass Insights, incorporated Sept 2025 by two Labour Party back office wonks.
One (improbable) curiosity is Hamilton & Clyde valley going from Labour to Reform. I guess Morgan McSweeney could sell that £500 k holiday home he and his wife purchased to give them a Hamilton postcode and create the narrative that she was a local candidate.
DeleteHello from Weirdsville where everybody speaks with a lithp and looks like Martine McCutcheon. Except the women. They look like my beloved John MAJOR [not the oldone].
DeleteHilarious letter from WOS giving the Crown Office one last chance. They will be pissing themselves laughing at this one. The Dean of the Faculty will be accruing huge legal fees which Campbell’s dullards are paying for. Campbell is rewriting then Law of Trusts in Scotland. He claims that the eyes of the world are on his letter. I kid you not. Delusional doesn’t start to cover it.
ReplyDelete