The Nation.Cymru news website has been making the news recently rather than just reporting on it. It played a key role in the downfall of the Welsh First Minister Vaughan Gething, a man so arrogant and entitled that a sitcom could be written about him. (Having been dragged kicking and screaming from office, his first reaction was - with no apparent sense of irony - to sympathise with the people who would be devastated by his departure!)
Yesterday, Nation.Cymru was fast out of the blocks with an opinion piece blasting Labour's proposed "Council of the Nations and Regions" as an insult to Wales. It points out that the plan would put the country of Wales on a par with non-national English regions and would drown out the voice of Wales in a body where it would be lost among a sea of English mayors. Alex Salmond has today made a similar point about how the Scottish Government shouldn't accept being given the same status as devolved English regions.
I personally wouldn't be that bothered about Scotland being treated in the same way as an English region as long as devolution in England was meaningful. Yorkshire has a similar population to Scotland, and if there was a Yorkshire parliament with similar powers to Holyrood, it would obviously make sense to regard them as having equivalent status. But that's not the position. The English metro-mayors are essentially local government figures. They've had very limited powers devolved to them from central government, but those are powers that in any sensible country would have been in the hands of local government long before now. What the Scottish Government mustn't accept is being treated as a glorified local authority.
But that seems to be London Labour's plan. The language from the King's Speech pointed to a deliberate levelling up/levelling down approach - devolution to English mayors is to be strengthened, but all that will be strengthened in Scotland and Wales is the UK Government's relationship with the devolved administrations, which in plain language means that London will be sticking its oar into matters that have been devolved for decades, re-establishing the sort of dependent relationship that exists between the UK Government and English local authorities. John Swinney shouldn't play along with that. He should say he wants good relations with the Starmer administration, but that they should be conducted bilaterally, or via the Joint Ministerial Committee, or via the British-Irish Council.
And sharing this falls foul of fecaboko's 'community standards'. Spreading their vile wings from YfS, PaB, Wings, to now catch SgP. Must all be doing something right...
ReplyDeleteNick Clegg says shut up and eat your cereal.
DeleteNo surpises with Labour policy, implementing anti devolution polices, just like the Tories. Where is the change !
ReplyDeleteAn English parish council can hold a non binding referendum on any matter raised at the annual parish meeting even if it is on something outside of the council's usual powers. Berwick Town Council held such a referendum that voted in 2008 to leave England and join Scotland.
ReplyDeleteThe Union's Supreme Court famously ruled that the Scottish Parliament has no such equivalent power. We are expected to be grateful that a body with lesser powers than the lowliest English parish council gets to have it's representatives sit in such august company as English metro mayors.
Prediction: it won't.
ReplyDelete"Alex Salmond has today made a similar point about how the Scottish Government shouldn't accept being given the same status as devolved English regions"
ReplyDeleteDoesn't necessarily give them the same status? Their statuses are surely recognised as unequal in the name?
I smelt a rat on this too immediately after the election. The Scottish Govt should have nothing to do with it on the same basis as the Nation Cymru. John Swinney should get on the blower to Michelle O'Neill and present a united front saying that they'll turn up when England has its own devolved parliament.
ReplyDeleteI second that . Avoid like the plague.
DeleteGood point about the British Ireland Council. Bringing in IoM, the Channel Islands, and Gibraltar would work out well.
ReplyDeleteThose places would be irrelevant to the remit proposed.
DeleteAll tax havens and defence paid for by Scotland and wales
ReplyDeleteThe "Council of the Nations and Regions" is an interesting one, but possibly tricky for the ScotGov. From the point of view of self-determination, the State (UK) is expected to provide an internal path for self-determination, otherwise ultimately the nations might have a case to pursue an external route, if that internal route is denied, perhaps via the ICJ or UN, perhaps via or with the support of a sponsoring state.
ReplyDeleteIf the ScotGov turns this so-called Council flat, then perhaps it could be claimed that the internal route was offered but refused, so there is no case for an external route to be supported.
Whereas if they go for it cautiously and wait until it fails dismally, then if played well it could enhance that case for an external route.
Or something like that.
You appear to be Conflating the exhaustion of domestic remedies as part of a court process with a political move by Labour to further neuter the devolved Scottish parliament. The two are entirely separate issues. Your proposal would be disastrous. The S G ought to reject this outright, in tandem with Wales.
DeleteThe so called Council of nations and English regions is not there to promote independence but is just a sop and another talking shop by the Brits.
DeleteAye, you're just clutching at straws, YI2. Understandable, as we're all frustrated with this constitutional cul-de-sac, post November 2022. But a regular meeting for England's metro mayors and regions is hardly designed to be a nursery for the dissolution of the UK!
DeleteNow, using things *creatively* is exactly what got us Indyref1 in the first place: Holyrood was explicitly denied constitutional powers at its inception. So maybe you have a point. If this thing becomes any more than a talking shop ignored by London's media, it could become a platform for Scotland and Wales and England's worse-off regions to make our case and push the narrative for greater devolution. The narrative for ever deeper home rule could, I suppose, find its feet there, where it never has in Westminster.
Taking off my rose coloured glasses, though, it does just feel like more "Better Labour Than Labour" from the indy-free SNP; assuming they are indeed going along with it. I’m sure they are. Upsetting unionism is something they take much more seriously than upsetting us!
To an extent the Labour move comes from but also heads off Gordon Brown's "initiative":
Deletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65775939
Labour will hope nothing comes of it, but at the same time they'll also hope the SNP spurn it as then they can point the finger at the "extreme nationalists" who fail to co-operate.
Sorry, 11.48 was me.
DeleteAnon at 9.25. Home rule? Greater devolved powers for worse off regions? More devolved powers? That’s the devolutionist movement. It will further reduce pressure for Indy. I think it’s intended to achieve the opposite of what you think it could do. Starmer/Labour told you it intended weakening Holyrood in the election campaign. At best send minor officials as observers.
DeleteI said I had my rose coloured glasses on for that bit! Playing devil’s advocate, or Swinney’s devolution-happy Scotgov.
DeleteTaking them back off again: obvs, I don’t believe there is a fundamental difference between Labour’s and Tories’s attitude to Scottish nationhood. Neither, hopefully, does Swinney and the rest of the party’s dozen or so high heid yins. But they’ll play into this wee charade, and be proud of themselves for doing so (as IR2 posted above) to prove they’re cuddly nationalists, not the nasty kind who actually want independence, like us. .
Unfortunately I have to agree. No fight, no confrontation, no Indy.
DeleteI see pat mcfadden MP is being interviewed on the PO Inquirt scandal. Seems during his tenure his private secretary’s did all the work leaving him and his colleagues to say it wisnae us.Another Scot apologist doing Englands duty.
ReplyDeleteWhat would Nicola Sturgeon have done with respect to this Council? I think she would have participated. It is an opportunity for the SNP leader to stand as a leader alongside the Prime Minister and the FMs from Northern Ireland and Wales as well as people like Andy Burnham and the London Mayor.
ReplyDeleteBenefits for Scotland can be squeezed out of these meetings by someone like Sturgeon.
I don't think there is anything to be gained by boycotting it.
She would hug and smile for selfies with Starmer, Khan and Burnham, for sure.
DeleteAnon at 10.48. Your final para misses the point. It’s not what good it will do it’s what harm it will do.
DeleteIn terms of independence, it will be important to win an overall majority. That will require people to vote SNP in the 2026 elections.
ReplyDeleteJames has mentioned that the Holyrood election is "playing at home" for the SNP under John Swinney so we should be better able to score and win against the Labour party who will have become unpopular by then due to unfavourable economic outcomes which can be blamed on them.
DeleteIt is therefore not a gloomy situation for the SNP.
John Swinney still the best person to lead. Should that election not go quite as well as hoped then Kate Forbes can take over at that point in time.
ironically the biggest nationalists are the ones who don't want scotland to be a normal european country in my view.
Deletedemocracy to boot out those with the real power to do something would be grand. we have a halfway house which gives a cloak of unaccountability to all who bear under her.
Aye , the Britnats are far mair nationalistic than us Sconats . But they control the narrative- the press , the BBC and the weight of all the media keeping us in oor place.
DeleteWake up
Burn ham sees Scotland as an appendage of the north. No friends to be find here.
ReplyDeleteNicola Sturgeon said on the ITV Election Results show that Andy Burnham is someone who has shown the value of the elected mayor system and someone she can do business with.
Deletethe SNP need to start making the case for what we are unable to do right now. What this government is unable to do right now as a devolved government. List them out and chirp on about it.
DeleteThe "all countries should be independent" cohort has already been won. The "what's the point of rocking the boat", "what actual changes will we see?", "what choices could we make which are better?" cohort hasn't.
And therein lies the problem, 12:46. They’ve long since given up on that. Which is why they’re doomed to lose power in Holyrood, without a complete and total reboot.
DeleteThey’ve let the fear destroy them. They’re too conservative—small c: too afraid of change—and too blinded by their own routine to see the iceberg dead ahead. If this election didn’t wake them up, nothing will.
In fairness the first paragraph could be said about the Scottish people as a whole, rather than the section which does want to change it.
DeleteNicola Sturgeon isn’t the First Minister but nice to see you admire her.
ReplyDeleteAre you sure? You have to wonder how many texts and calls Swinney has with her, every day he has the job. At least she’s not sitting in on cabinet meetings now she’s busy mugging it up in London.
DeleteSeriously, who cares? How many votes do you think the alphabet soup gang bring to the table? They're a minority of a minority.
DeleteAnon at 3.20. They attract minimal votes and have disproportionate power. That’s the whole point.
DeleteIf Nicola Sturgeon was a nobody the British and their allies in Scotland wouldn't work so hard to try to destroy her
DeleteShe destroyed herself
DeleteFor sure, England needs it's own parliament appointed using a form of PR. The English parliament needs to be somewhere away from London. Then the English can make laws for England in the areas they control (education, health etc). England would then have its own First Minister as per Scotland, Wales, NI). Each First Minister would then appoint members of their parliament to a Council of the UK that would look after defence, international relations etc. All 4 nations would have the same number of individuals appointed so England could never impose something against the will of the smaller populated nations e.g. Brexit (which I still despise). Westminster elections would never happen again. The Supreme Court would be disbanded as Wesminster would not exist and could not make laws impacting Scotland. Scotland as per Northern Ireland get to hold referenda every set number of years, not at the behest of a court in another country.
ReplyDeleteOh aye , we're heard all this federal rubbish before . It would never happen. And we don't want it anyway . We want INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLAND .
DeleteScotland is a good average sized compared to the countries of the world
And is richly endowed with resources
We hae oor ain leids (languages )
. England / UK has been kept afloat on Scottish oil for 50 years. Time for us to break away.
Alba gu brath!
Anon@5:18,
DeleteBullshit, independence is lunacy
@10:35,
DeleteIndeed, well said.
Greatet Glasgow could really do with its own directly elected mayor and should get devolution from Holyrood.
ReplyDeleteYes and there is something to be said for Highlands & Islands getting devolved powers from Holyrood too as we feel Edinburgh does not serve us well.
DeleteDon't have Mayors in Scotland. Are you so ill informed? Glasgow and the highlands are part of Scotland
DeleteThose in Highlands and the NE are aye saying that all the money is spent in the central belt. Absolutely untrue - per person spending much higher in Northern rural areas- health , education , transport - you name it , it costs more there.
DeleteDirectly elected Provosts with power redirected from Holyrood to the local areas.
DeleteInteresting revelations about Liz Lloyd by David Davis!!!!
ReplyDeleteRevelations? If you didn’t know Sturgeon’s Chief of Staff liz Lloyd leaked the report to her close pal Britnat Clegg of the Daily Record then you haven’t a clue about what has been going on.
DeleteThis was not in the public domain.
DeleteIsn’t Davis and Salmond best buddies.
ReplyDeleteAny revelations?
ReplyDelete.....I personally wouldn't be that bothered about Scotland being treated in the same way as an English region....
ReplyDeletePerhaps you should join the SNP
So says the brit nat labour or the socialist Trotskyist party of team GB? The all end up with peerages.
DeleteAnon at 10.38. Why should that matter if what Davis says is true? And according to Davis the reporter Clegg confirmed this. It is damning. All SNP members who value honesty, integrity, due process and rule of law should be concerned by this. And to avoid people posting ah but responses, A S behaved appallingly towards certain women. He has admitted this. But it is not the issue. The honesty and integrity of the SNP Govt at that time is the issue. Saying Davis is a Tory doesn’t address the issue either.
ReplyDeleteAa an SNP member , I agree with 5.58. Truth , all the truth needs to come out . Then we can learn lessons and move on . Put the Salmon / Sturgeon era behind us and concentrate on openness , good governance and INDEPENDENCE.
Delete“Salmond behaved appallingly to certain woman” - says Scotland’s self appointed moral guardian. These women are not wee innocents but women on the make. One of them claimed Salmond promised her a position as a candidate in an election.
DeleteAnon @5.58pm - if it is not the issue then why are you raising it!
DeleteI raised it to preempt the knee jerk ah but response. But you know that. Thankfully anon at 8.32 understood the point being made. If truth is not important to you, that’s your problem. You have a wee chat with the half wit anon at 9.32. I suspect you have a lot in common.
DeleteAnon at 12.24 - who are you to give out abuse and make up stuff about Salmond. He never admitted to behaving appallingly - you just made that up and that makes you a liar. The truth is a stranger to you.
DeleteIt’s a matter of public and court record you idiot. And confirmed by his own legal representative. Do you understand? Which makes you? A liar and an idiot. Educate yourself instead of embarrassing yourself.
DeleteAny actual journalist interested in the fetid swamp that comprises Scotland's body politic, public institutions and the SNP, that is being exposed by David Davis in the House of Commons?
ReplyDeleteNo?
Still too busy worshipping at the Kirk of the Blessed St Nicla of Dreghorn no doubt. A case of nothing to see here folks, move along.
Vomit inducing levels of self delusion on display, as usual.
Vomit inducing -yip. I am sure you know that feeling well. Its called bile. Still you have your orders. Keep it going to the Holyrood elections.
DeleteLet's send positive thoughts to poor Arch Stanton, a person so unhappy that her bitterness is clearly poisoning her. Let's send her a bouquet of caring love.
DeleteOr let the miserable old bat stem in her own juice!
"Orders" you say? Yip... I'm sure you'd be more comfortable if you could conclude I'm not a Yesser of 4+ decades and former SNP member, candidate, CA office bearer etc. and just some 5th columnist or some junior rank in the 77th Bde.
DeleteYip...be happy and content in your delusional state friend... You're in good company!
Anon at 10.12 and so many others like him are part of the problem. Astonishing level of Cognitive dissonance. Indy needs to lance this boil and re establish the competence and integrity that SNP once enjoyed. It’s not happening without wholesale change at the top in the SNP. 500,000 have already voted with their feet. Or perhaps they are all 77 brigade or some such nonsense.
DeleteI dont think the tory brit nat Davis should expose himself at westminster. It does seem that the anti Sturgeon brigade are really quite malicious - or is it just one or two stalwarts? Is it ALBA policy?
ReplyDeleteIt was expected. ALBA did worse than they thought in the GE so they have to divert attention away using tories and the anti independence forces on here. Here is a thought. You are outnumbered and most folk dont care about Salmond's failure. Any good he did for Scotland is rotting on the vine.
The Salmond worshipers keep trying to have it their own way
DeleteOne minute Nicola Sturgeon holds all the power of Greyskull and rules over the Crown office the police the courts and all the law, next minute she's an idiot that can't run a bath a criminal and every other name they can call her
And the problem with all Alba's attacks on Sturgeon is if any of it could be proven it would have been long before now and they know it
David Davis is Salmond's pal and all he's doing is trying to help his pal boost his ratings by dragging up Salmond's trial all over again because Salmond convinced him it's over and let's see if we can *get* Sturgeon
The upshot of it all is that Alex Salmond is a toxic entity that Scotland will never vote for if you stuck wings on his back and called him St Michael
Whereas Nicola Sturgeon will return when the time is right and probably be FM once again if she so chooses as she's the most popular and influential politician Scotland has ever had and the voters know she's been fitted up to get rid of her but Salmond was and is a dirty old man, maybe not a criminal but a dirty old sleaze and they don't like it
Keep dreaming Dr Dim.
Delete"Whereas Nicola Sturgeon will return when the time is right"
DeleteWill she have time in-between the prison visits to her hubbie?
DR JIM really really needs medical help.
DeleteWhat David Davis did looks like it was given to him by Alex Salmond. I therefore suspect that it is motivated by a desire to harm Nicola Sturgeon's reputation rather than anything else. It will fail.
ReplyDeleteReputation. ROFLMAO...
DeleteBaby boxes?
What else dare I ask?
Nicola Sturgeon is Scotland's most highly regarded politician, with a name recognition and popularity among ordinary people that is second to none. Her communication skills have been widely praised.
DeleteAnon at 11.21. She was until about a year ago. 500,000 have walked away from SNP and we now know for a fact the SNP were involved in leaking to the press. If there is no regard for truth and integrity, there is no hope. Are you really ok with that? Holyrood 2026 is going to be disastrous.
DeleteSturgeon is a crook.
DeleteNicola Sturgeon was asked about all of this. She has been very clear and consistent. Her her opinion of Salmond does not come from anger but indifference. She is not angry about him but is indifferent to him and has no interest at all in a reconciliation with him.
ReplyDeleteHead in the sand nonsense.
DeleteAll the above comments show that this poisonous Sturgeon v Salmond is still dragging us down . Nae doot there's also some mischief making by Britnats , maybe even the British state.
ReplyDeleteWe need to move on , establish the truth as far as possible, and make progress to INDEPENDENCE.
John Swinney is the right man for this. He has worked tirelessly for the SNP for over 30 years.
DeleteWe're getting further from achieving our goal every day the rotting carcass that is the SNP continues to draw breath.
Delete70,000 have seen the way the wind was blowing and voted with their feet, (self included), but the stubbornly myopic 50,000 simply won't be told.
"Swinney is the man for the job". "Nicola was great". "Indy is just around the corner". "One more push..."
In reality...
Reduced to 9 MPs, 30% of the vote on a 60% turnout, 500,000 votes gone AWOL, popularity and trust at an all-time low, 7 of the 10 most marginal seats in Scotland, Criminal and Civil court cases in the pipeline, bankruptcy prior to 2026 a clear and present danger...
My God... (collectively) you're the living embodiment of the orchestra on the Titanic. I feel sorry for you all, I really do.
Indy for Scotland! SNP Out!
Arch: these comments are wide of the mark. SNP was only 5% behind Labour and can pull ahead again if we hold our nerve. Swinney will take us into 2026.
DeleteAs an SNP member still , I obviously think that all is not lost in the party . However , it's nae use bring in denial . Whatever happened with Salmond and Sturgeon needs to be put in the past.
DeleteQuestion is , is Swinney the man to lead us forward?
Swinney is too closely connected to the Sturgeon era tbh.
DeleteThe SNP needs a reset and a fresh approach/strategy moving forward. The only thing Swinney can offer is continuity and that's not what the SNP needs.
Arch Stanton’s comment are harsh, but they are true. They are undeniable. They are reality. Cognitive dissonance and denial don’t cut it any more. SNP need to get rid of the current leadership, and start again to rebuild a reputation for honesty and competence.
Delete"SNP was only 5% behind Labour and can pull ahead again if we hold our nerve. Swinney will take us into 2026."
DeleteIt's not a just a simple race where Labour have just overtaken and the SNP can easily just get back in front though. The SNP's popularity has significantly declined.
It will take considerably more than just holding your nerve to reverse that if it's even possible at this point. A lot of work will need to be put in to regain peoples trust. You can't just expect to kick back, relax and hope Labour will make themselves more unpopular than the SNP before 2026.
After an electoral defeat like the one the SNP just suffered that should be raising alarm bells for the need for reform. Pretending all is well and all we need to do is just press ahead with business as usual is farcical.
So plenty of theses comments. But what we really need is positive contributions: what needs doing , what reforms.? Reform of the party? Different leader - who? How?
DeleteWhat about the wider independence movement?