Tuesday, March 26, 2024

Alba and the road-map to independence

On Saturday night, I started replying to a commenter on the previous thread who was on the wind-up about the Alba Party.  He said he was "just trying to introduce some realism" about Alba by calling it a "role-playing" outfit.  My reply began with "oh get over yourself", but it kind of sprouted wings from there, and it went on for so long that I fell asleep and lost the whole thing.  So I thought if I was going to have a second go, I'd probably better turn it into a full-blown blogpost.

So yeah, let's introduce some realism.  The SNP leadership in its current form is not interested in delivering independence, they want to get on with enjoying their careers as masters of a devolved country (although paradoxically by shelving independence they may be putting their own power at risk).  This creates a dilemma for genuine independence supporters who want to get the cause back on track.  Do they work to change the SNP from within, or do they try to pressurise the SNP into changing direction by applying electoral pressure from outside?

The problem with trying to change the SNP from inside is that the party's internal democratic structures have been hollowed out.  The most vivid example of that was the ultimate failure of what initially appeared to be a quiet revolution in the SNP in the autumn of 2020, when the old guard like Fiona Robertson were swept away by modernisers who wanted to increase transparency and accountability, and to protect women's rights.  But almost immediately, many of the people who had been voted off the NEC were back on it by unelected means.  Fiona Robertson no longer had the title of Equalities Convener, but effectively carried on with the actual role of Equalities Convener while her successor looked on bemused.  An election defeat barely proved to be even a minor inconvenience for her.

No, it's the leadership faction that controls the SNP, not the other way around.  But the one exception to that is during leadership elections, where members do still just about have the power to depose the ruling faction altogether - and of course they almost did that exactly one year ago.  The dice will always be loaded in favour of the handpicked continuity candidate, but nevertheless as far as we know the actual election results are not falsified, so there's an argument that if independence supporters just bide their time as members of the SNP, they'll be eligible to vote in the next leadership election whenever it comes up.  At that point they can pounce and reclaim their party.  In the meantime, though, there's a hell of a lot of powerless thumb-twiddling going on, so it's a bit daft to pretend not to understand the motivations of those of us who have chosen the alternative path of trying to bring about change from outside the SNP.

The troll suggested that I must agree with him that the SNP is the only possible vehicle for independence, given the number of articles I've written about the need for a change of SNP leadership, and the supposed lack of articles I've written about a road-map to independence that actually involves Alba.  I'll have to gently point out that our troll seems to be guilty of a selective memory, because I've written plenty of blogposts about the two possible routes by which I think Alba can play a key role.

The first is indirect.  It involves taking just enough pro-independence votes away from the SNP that the SNP leadership start to panic and become more like Alba (in other words more serious about independence) to get their winning coalition of support back.  That would be analogous to how Labour reacted to losing masses of votes to the SDP in the early 1980s.  It moved sharply to the centre ground that the SDP already occupied, and eventually took power in 1997 as a party Shirley Williams described as "very like the SDP, but a bit further to the right".  So although the SDP never won, it still achieved a lot of its objectives by forcing Labour to become the SDP.

The second route is direct.  It involves winning perhaps 5-8 list seats in 2026, holding the balance of power, and offering informal support for an SNP-led government in return for a credible strategy on independence.

So Alba could well have a decisive role to play, but I'll reiterate again that Alba will need to put its own house in order first.  I'm in a vantage point where I can see as clearly as anyone that Alba is increasingly replicating the SNP as a top-down party, and that is not the way it's going to win new recruits.  

95 comments:

  1. The danger of being an outsider is the sheer visceral hatred The SNP seems to have In such a quantity against Alba. (I am unaware of this from the SNP for any other Yes party, such as the ISP and SSP.) The relationship between Alba and the SNP Is the most brutally antagonistic I have ever seen in Scottish politics. Whatever the reason, and whatever the unfairness, this remains a significant obstacle for exerting influence on the major party of independence.

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    1. I'm afraid the hatred is from the Alba side, and if proof were ever needed the internet is completely clogged up with it, so much so it is and will be the very reason for its total disappearance as Scotland can see right through what Alba stands for and will not vote for this in any shape or form, unless possibly they remove Alex Salmond and become an actual political party that stands for election, because so far it appears Alba preference is just to steal votes from the SNP and transfer them to themselves under false pretences
      How about the Alba MPs standing for election in the
      constituencies they stole the voters time votes and money from and see if they can be fairly elected like honest people are supposed to do, maybe that might be a start for voters deciding for themselves who sits in which parliament instead of doing what Tories and Labour do, just steal voters time effort money and votes and refuse to give them the chance to vote them out in a by election

      If you think the SNP dislike Alba then you might think about the amount of people they represent who definitely dislike everything Alba stands for, which so far has been theft and loud mouthed lies, Tory Labour Alba, no difference

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    2. Anon at 10.02pm says Alba HATES SNP but SNP only DISLIKES Alba. Read anons post and make up your mind but anon seems to hate Alba - aint that right Dr Jim.

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    3. Anon 10.02 This is the problem, there is nothing positive in your post. All you seem to care about is the disappearance of ALBA so that they stop stealing votes from the SNP. Two things there, no mention of independence (not unusual in the SNP these days) and a complete misunderstanding of the voting system in western democracies - nobody steals votes, the votes belong to the individual not a party. This is exactly the way the Labour acted years ago, saying that they wanted their seats back from the SNP, the seats didn't belong to them, they belong to the constituents. How about this for an idea - think about independence. Ask yourself, what is Humzah's plan? We know what Nicola Sturgeon said her plan was - why has that been ditched. I won't kid you I never believed NS really wanted a defacto referendum but she did espouse it. So, what is the plan? I really would like to know, because if it's convincing enough I would vote SNP in the drop of a hat. So would many others - just tell us.

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    4. Dr Jim @ 10:02, if you select Name / URL when commenting, you can enter your name so your comment doesn't just appear as Anonymous. You don't have to enter a URL. Makes the conversation much easier to follow.

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    5. https://scottishelections.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Scottish-Election-Study-The-2021-Scottish-Parliament-Election.pdf It is clear that SNP voters (and greens) hate alba (or salmond) rather than the other way round. It's ma baw and A'm no playin

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    6. see the table on p8

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  2. Conversely, the danger of Being an insider aiming to steer the SNP back to Full throated and active support for independence Is the potential lack of any credible candidate for Yes. I like Forbes, and I would Vote for her if I was a member of the party. But am I 100% convinced that she is as much of a Yesser as those of us in the grass roots? No, I am not. There is every possibility that she would disappoint, too. And what then? Remain a party member for the duration until the next leadership contest comes along to fail us?

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  3. In summary: I think we need both strategies. The SNP must lose a bunch of its completely unnecessary London seats. That should steer them in the right direction. If they go on to pick a bad leader yet again, then we need to push them again externally.

    Carrot and stick, carrot and stick, Until they are red and as sick of carrots as we are! The less of them have comfortable jobs for life, Firmly nestled in the status quo, The more receptive they will be.

    Do Yessers button up at the back? Is everyone a happy Wee ginger dug (RIP)? We can and we must give them precisely the answer they do not want to hear.

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  4. Alba have 2.5 candidates standing at the general election, each one of whom was elected as an SNP candidate. Speaking as an SNP activist I would genuinely love to see the individuals concerned actually holding onto those seats, but I don't think there is the slightest chance of that occurring. Anybody who supports independence, however, who wants to see seats being lost by the SNP at the election is an idiot as far as I am concerned. The loss of seats will be cast up as due to the people of Scotland losing interest in independence. What is needed at this point in time within the independence movement is unity and not enmity. 'Beezer wheezes' such as expressed above by you, James, are simply fanciful speculations and are not helpful in any way in taking forward the cause of Scottish independence.

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    1. Nor are Lords Wishart and Blackford.

      Settle up? Why should we?! Settle in, chaps! The nosh is marvellous. Long live the struggle for independence, the longer the better!

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    2. This is Alba, again more lies, there are and will be no SNP lords, try excepting Alex Salmond from that, you can't because he is a man who will do anything for his own gratification, and the cash of course

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    3. Wouldn’t be too sure about that.

      https://www.thenational.scot/news/24070332.joanna-cherry-ian-blackford-wants-peerage-amid-snp-lords-debate/

      Lord Blackford “speaking up for Scotland in the upper chamber” is more likely than any action for Scotland’s freedom from this sorry state of a party.

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    4. I see the unionists are busy with their hysterical anti-Salmond and anti-Sturgeon rants. "Tally ho, chaps. Set the Jocky Nats on one another and watch the fun."

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    5. Anon 9.32 "Anybody who supports independence, however, who wants to see seats being lost by the SNP at the election is an idiot as far as I am concerned." Why? The SNP have done nothing to get us independence over a ten year period, nothing. Sometimes politicians need a wake up call, for there is a long game to be played. Here is a couple of scenarios for you, 1) we keep voting for the SNP nothing happens, more decades fly by, nothing happens. Who is the idiot? Another scenario, 2) the SNP get a doing in the election, and the next and the next, nothing happens. Who is the idiot? Perhaps the person voting in scenario 1 because even though they didn't like the package of other guffy policies the SNP were putting in their basket of offers, they voted for the party and ended up with crap policies. Kind of serves them right. How about the other mob? The ones in scenario 2) They didn't vote for the SNP to give them a wake up call, but got policies that they did agree with contained in the other party's manifesto. That's a double whammy of success for that voter isn't it? I mean, they got some policies they agreed with, not minimum pricing, not hate crime, not gender stuff, not wasting money on guff, like the duff ferries. Some times the most likely vehicle isn't the one to deliver the package. Look at NI. Years ago it was the UUP and SDLP who led the way in the Stormont assembly, indeed it was Trimble and Hume who got the Nobel Peace prize but it has quickly flipped to the DUP and Sein Fein being the influential parties there. Something has to happen in Scotland to get the SNP to come up with a strategy. Waiting and waiting is not a strategy worth voting for.

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    6. The loss of seats will be cast up as due to the people of Scotland losing interest in independence.

      I keep seeing this. "What will the media say?" We know that they'll say there's little support for independence regardless of what happens. So what does it matter? Ok, perhaps you don't want to give them ammunition to support that view. But if the SNP lose seats because the Yes vote has been distributed more widely among independence parties, that's barely ammunition at all.

      The argument from a Yes perspective for not voting SNP this time is: it's a Westminster election and therefore pretty irrelevant to Scotland's actual governance, and if they lose support to other independence parties it will make it clear to the SNP that their own interests will be served by changing course.

      The argument against appears to be: Anas Sarwar will gloat a lot and that might make current supporters of independence give up.

      Is that...basically it?

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  5. Route 1 cannot happen because Alba always bottle it when it comes to putting forward candidates in elections. If you are too afraid of taking votes off the SNP then the leadership can safely ignore you.
    Similarly, route 2 is much less likely to happen because Alba won't raise their profile enough to be relevant in a Holyrood election by standing in other elections beforehand because they always bottle it.
    Alba has become no more relevant than a debating society and a disfunctional one at that.
    So sticking within the SNP to change it, tough though it is, is the only option. Alba-ites should come back and help us. Come back and be relevant again.

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    1. An election year seems a strange time to move out of your party headquarters…

      http://www.ftlinden.com/properties/gordon-lamb-house-2/

      The flit seems a bit unplanned. Look at all that stuff they’re leaving. After spending so much of your money on a refit, too.

      No one knows the new HQ’s address yet. Nothing to see here, I’m sure.

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    2. Nothing wrong with a debating society - pity the SNP don't have one.

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  6. I think we are at risk of missing the bigger picture here. Many voters are agnostic on independence. They need to be convinced it will be better for their lives, and the lives of their nearest and dearest. Criticism of the SNP as not being pro-Indy enough is fine but fails to address their incompetence in government - education, women’s rights, economy, transport, justice, pretty much the full gamut. This is made worse by the combination of the party being so top down and the fact that their leader is well meaning but so evidently rubbish at his job. The shock of lost a trove of WM seats must be the catalyst for forcing him out in favour of someone who is actually competent to lead our country.

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    1. I agree with most of that besides the premise that SNP voters aren’t overwhelmingly pro-independence. We don’t have to guess about this: it’s habitually asked in polls. SNP voters are overwhelmingly Yes, about as strongly as Tories and Liberals are No. Labour is the party with a mixed vote base.

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    2. Too negative about Humza who has not put a foot wrong.

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    3. Oh no, he's so firmly in touch his strangle-hold of the r繫le amazes everyone.

      An actual headline from the SNP-loyal National today:
      TOURIST information centres “have a place” in Scotland, Humza Yousaf has said – despite plans to shut every one of them.

      That place they have would be the trashbin then, Humza? Because you're shutting down ALL OF THEM.

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  7. There is no Alba party, there's only Alex Salmond a blog and some loud mouths infesting the internet squealing death to Sturgeon
    That's why nobody will vote for you, what they see and hear is a bunch of nutjobs

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  8. Very low turnout at GE, SNP loses a lot of seats, Yousaf gets sack, support for independence stays at 50% and pro independence movement remains in dire need of leadership.

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    1. That’s what I’m expecting, too.

      The contest to replace him will be pivotal, for all of us.

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  9. Anonymous at 10:02,10:05,and 10:07 (obviously the same person) having a bit of a meltdown about this Alba party who he says everybody hates and nobody will vote for but are a threat to the SNP apparently. Calm down dear

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    1. A good example of the hate and spleen from many SNP people towards Alba that I was on about in the first post. There’s two way traffic. You never see SNP folks as worked up about anyone else.

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  10. Sturgeon had 6 great years of great opportunities to deliver independence but chose to do nothing.

    Alba have not had such opportunities. As the Alba haters continuously tell everybody that Alba are nothing then no reasonable person can expect them to deliver independence.

    If you want Scottish independence who do you blame for nothing happening in the last 10 years - Alba or SNP - SNP obviously and it's really that simple and no matter how much hate Alba haters like Dr Jim want to throw in the direction of Alba it will never change the basic facts. SNP didn't deliver. SNP didn't even try to deliver.

    Independence supporters now have to choose if they think the SNP will ever deliver.

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    1. Too negative about Nicola Sturgeon. She was able to fill enormous stadiums of people many of whom were persuaded to vote SNP because of her enormous popularity.

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    2. And look at what she delivered for us!



      What did she deliver for us, again? Fond memories of opportunities squandered?

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    3. She delivered many years of SNP winning at the polls.

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    4. Anon at 8.16am - " She was able to fill enormous stadiums of people ...." nonsense - she never filled any stadium. The Hydro was filled once, not long after the independence referendum. The Hydro in Glasgow is a concert hall not a stadium.

      Anon at 9.07am - without doing anything about independence winning elections to me is meaningless.

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    5. IfS: it has a capacity of 15,000. She filled it and there were many other people disappointed not to get tickets. She was a great star for Scotland and a great leader for the SNP.

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    6. Anon at 9.27am - try reading my post again. I said the Hydro was filled. She was a star was she - did she burst into song - God Save The Queen was it. Or Rule Britannia. She was given mandates to deliver Indyref2 and didn't bother her arse. Your nicophancy cuts no ice with me. I saw people like you at George square in Nov 2019 queuing up to get a selfie with Sturgeon as if she was Beyonce. She is a failed politician - and that's assuming she ever wanted independence in the first place.

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    7. Ifs at 1:13 am, you blame the SNP for not delivering independence!!
      Are you off your head??
      How the hell can independence be delivered when only a minority of the country want it !!

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    8. Minority? Where's your data, anon? The dug ate it, aye?

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    9. Anon at 2:23, you must be one of the mugs that believe polls conducted by the nationalist polling outfit Find Out Now are accurate lol.

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    10. Independence for Scotland, your criticism of Nicola Sturgeon is way over the top. How we could do with someone with her leadership qualities right now.

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    11. Anon at 3.13pm - your love for Sturgeon is way over the top. How we could do with a genuine independence leader right now.

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    12. That leader was Nicola Sturgeon, but sadly she’s gone.
      It is what it is.

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    13. In your opinion ifs.

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    14. Anon at 9.14pm - yes my opinion. Your opinion is that Sturgeon was a genuine independence leader - tell me what she did to get Scottish independence then with all the mandates she got from voters like me. Also if you think she was genuinely for independence then clearly she was a failure.

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  11. Thanks for a clear and balanced piece yet again. I hope both Alba and SNP do better than the unionists are predicting and hoping for.

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    1. Well, to be fair to the Brits: both Labour and Tories are trying their union jacked socks off to put Scots off voting for them.

      Scotland's ripe for a sensible, tactically minded UK government in waiting to pluck away from Yousaf's hands. All they need to do is pitch us on social democracy, repairing the damage done to all of us by both UK and Scottish governments, and try to look like they mean it. Everyone and their dug knows independence is off the table, so they don't even need to address it. Make the case for the UK the 55% voted for in 2014, pie in the sky as it was then and now! The media will amplify them and there will be no effective resistance from us in this state.

      But here they are clambering over each other, hoisting Maggie Thatcher up to heaven instead, like they're already in a post-independence rump-UK without Scotland.

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  12. Rob here, seen on another site best not named, "New poll suggests the SNP will only win 18 seats and lose 30."

    Actual "new poll"?

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  13. Campbell is reporting that the SNP are moving out of their Edinburgh premises. Amazingly the premises had no non binary toilets. Scottish Skier will be outraged that the party that wanted everybody else to change to non binary loos didnae have them. Has Skier forced them to find alternative premises in Edinburgh? He has posted previously as if he knows all the non binary loos in Edinburgh. Looks like they have flushed away a lot of money down their non binary loos.

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    1. I noticed that about the loos too. Another example of 'do as I say, not as I do' from our glorious leaders? Seems they know the difference between men and women after all. I'm off to report a hate crime for this blatantly biological approach to toilet provision.

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  14. Aw, jeeze, now we're discussing SNP toilets. At the risk of sounding facetious. what a load of phish.
    I'm an SNP member. Only since 2014, so not dyed-in-the-wool.
    I too am impatient and unhappy we aren't independent yet.
    But with support redlining at 50%ish, is it the SNP's fault or do we blame the electorate for failing to be convinced by us?
    Do you think ASAP (Alex Salmond's Alba Party) is in a position to convince the undecided? (answer honestly please).
    I sent a few bob to Neil Hanvey for his election campaign.
    Having got in, am I pissed off he then went to Alba? Well, a bit.
    Am I pissed off he (and Alba) now claim they have two MPs? Totally beelin' if truth be told. I can't stand turncoats - all floor-crossers should have to face a by-election and be re-elected (if possible) to redeem their democratic standards.
    Am I sad that AS has lifted his ba'? Yes. Like Tommy before him, subjected to an MI5 (?) witchhunt, he reacted exactly the way they intended. I thought he would be smarted than that. (I also donated - twice - to his defence fund).
    Do I hate Alba? No, I have been on Yes street stalls and got on well with their members, and they with me. (joint aspirations you see).
    Do I think Alba can be useful to the cause of Indy? Not in the short term*.
    I'd rather see a single Socialist Party emerge from the squabbling wreckage of the Left in Scotland. That would get my vote. But for now, the SNP are the only Party that can make Scotland Tory Free.
    *I abhor short-termism, but at 72, that's all there is.
    Did I prefer this blog when it only examined polling numbers and gave its trustworthy comparisons and conclusions? Yup.
    Do I think Wings is either deranged or a Yoon sleeper? Sure do.
    Best wishes to ALL Indy supporters.

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    1. The SNP isn't abandoning its HQ because of the khazi. They're doing it because they're in deep, deep trouble financially.

      Where's the regular membership figures update, Mike Russell?
      How are donations to the party going?
      And how heavily does the SNP rely on Westminster Short Money now to function?
      Most of those MPs are coming home after the election. Short Money will get very short indeed.

      And let's not ask about the £600k, that's obviously long gone up in smoke.

      If I was an SNP loyalist, it's the money that would keep me up at night. A bad election, you can survive. But bankruptcy?

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    2. Sense of humour bypass? The toilet stuff is just an 'in joke' pal. If you've been here long enough you'll remember our correspondent who kept us up to date on non binary toilet availability on a regular basis. Sadly, he has abandoned the site for its lack of devotion to the Blessed Nicola but we who remember him miss his lavatories listings.

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    3. Aye aye, Skier and all. The flit is a huge alarm bell about the health of the party, though. They’ve switched to desperate measures.

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    4. Sorry, I was actually replying to the original poster Alan. I agree with you that the party has serious issues financially having run through the 'ring fenced' referendum money in double quick time.

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    5. Alan, interesting post but inaccurate in places.

      1. It wisnae me who started all this pish about all toilets should be non binary. As an SNP member I would have thought you might know what is being punted by your party and fellow members on blogs.

      2. " Is it the SNP's fault...." - well most definitely yes it is. You cannae keep promising Indyref2 at elections get a mandate and not deliver it and not be responsible. If you do nothing the Britnats won't just hand Independence over on a plate.

      3. No I do not think Alba can deliver independence at present - I thought that we would be obvious to most people.

      4. The turncoat is Lisa Cameron.

      5. " Subjected to an MI5 (?) witchhunt" - the British state may well have contributed to thenpersecution of Salmond but Sturgeon, her husband and the rest of their gang were the major contributors. You do not say what you think Salmond should have differently - just go to prison and not defend himself? - I very much you would do that.

      6. A Tory free Scotland is an utter nonsense statement. There have been periods where Scotland have had zero Tory MPs and only one Tory MP. Are we independent - no.

      7. The problem - SNP members who blindly follow and accept what they are told without any critical thinking. The SNP do not own a country's freedom but they do their best to own it and keep it well secured in a box marked do not disturb.


      Sorry to say Alan but you are blind to the true nature of the people running the SNP. It is never a good idea for a party who claims to want independence to rely financially on the very entity they say they want to be free from - Westminster short money.

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    6. Well said Alan.

      Agree it's a shame we've turned on ourselves and think this will help the cause.

      The SNP would call a vote in a heart beat if it was obviously the will of the people, and not the will of half the people.

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    7. Anon at 10.31am - re your last sentence. If that is the case why did the SNP continuously lie through multiple elections that they would hold Indyref2. You cannae have it both ways.

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    8. Because it was only the will of prob less than half the people. In 2014 high 70% wanted a ref

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  15. That’s the party line! If they dared put it as honest as that to the Scottish people, nobody in their right mind would ever vote for them.

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  16. *waves*. The "troll" here /, interesting description for someone who's simply putting forward an opinion.

    Your plan here is why I joined Alba in the first place and hoped for results in elections to SP and Councils. The problem is the plan ain't realistic and isn't going to be.

    Craig Houston (a despicable unionist character I've recently come across) gets more YouTube views than Scottish Prism or Speak with Alex Salmond for goodness sake. I respect the latter but clearly the experiment has failed. Alba has not, as wished for, been the Brexit party/Tory device as hoped for.

    You clearly accept the SNP is the way forward by constantly punting Kate Forbes. Someone who may have won if you'd stayed in the party, like everyone else that left, and just voted for her over the line.

    Whats more likely ..Alba gaining six seats or changing the SNP from within? You pass over this key detail. Given Kate nearly won, as you're so keen to keep saying, against all the odds, perhaps.. just perhaps she would have won if the 6500 Alba members had stayed in? Is that not WAY more likely than gaining six seats for a party with Alba's track record goodness sake?

    Play the game you're in, not the one you want to play. That's role playing.

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    1. Again, your memory seems to be extraordinarily selective, because I have more than once directly addressed the point about whether Forbes would have won if Alba members had stayed in the SNP. Answer: no she wouldn't. There are multiple reasons for that. Firstly, not all Alba members defected straight from the SNP. Some had long since left the SNP before Alba was created, meaning they wouldn't have been able to vote in the leadership election anyway. Some had never previously been a member of any party. A significant minority would have abstained in the leadership election even if they had been in the SNP, and some would have ranked Yousaf ahead of Forbes. I know of several Alba members who said they would have voted 1) Regan, 2) Yousaf, 3) Forbes because they didn't like Forbes' views on abortion and gay marriage. Taking all of those factors together, it's highly unlikely Forbes would have had the votes to win.

      "Play the game you're in, not the one you want to play. That's role playing."

      No. That's gibberish. I don't have a clue what it means, and I stringly suspect you don't either.

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    2. Oh, and by the way, Through A Scottish Prism can no longer be regarded as an Alba-supporting podcast. The people involved are mostly former Alba members, rather than current Alba members. They are now supporting the 'Independents 4 Independence' quasi-party.

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    3. Anon: comment deleted. I've taken a considerable amount of time, on three separate occasions, to respond to your largely vexatious points at some length. But I'm not going to let you continue trolling me indefinitely. If you haven't got anything constructive to contribute, please stop submitting comments.

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    4. Re TASP --I know! Don't even get me started on that skelf off a match splinter group. they're even worse. hearts are in the right place (i think... ) but even more deluded.

      Eva Comrie MAY have a shot purely out of personality and ironically because she doesn't have ALBA branding but even that is highly unlikely in comparison to changing the SNP.

      Bottom line is are we frustrated with the SNP? damn right we are but we're doing nothing to change that being out it.

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  17. All Alba will ever do is split the pro Indy vote, regardless if they win any seats. What is the point of Alba?

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    1. Anon - why pick on Alba if they are of no significance? Why are you ignoring the Scottish Greens - will they not split the vote as well! What is the point of the SNP? Oh that's right the same policies as the Greens but no Indyref2.

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    2. IFS, you know fine well what I mean.

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    3. Well I don't know what you mean. Why are Alba 'stealing' votes from the SNP but not the Greens who intend standing in every seat?

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    4. Anon at 5.47pm - no I don't and I don't think you do either.

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  18. 10 years ago Britnats used to say it was unreasonable to have Indyref2 until 10 years have passed. What do we get from the SNP 10 years on - make Scotland Tory free. The SNP couldnae even make their own party Tory free.

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    1. Yes, it's unforgivable given that support for independence is now markedly higher than it was ten years ago.

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  19. Are all Alba members paranoid? Probably not, but you'd think it a possibility from many of the comments here.
    Are Alba members in danger of magical thinking? Not sure, since I don't know what it means. I certainly don't know if they offer anything that will advance the prospect of Indy, so definitely don't know what the Party is for.
    Would I like see see some evidence of some of the accusations chucked out here against SNP (finance, membership etc?)? Too right I would, If the Polis haven't found anything, the keyboard warriors on here sure haven't (the SNP published membership numbers demanded by Labour/Tories, who then neglected to do the same). I do know (no evidence necessary from me) that Alba have not increased their %share in polls for at least a year.
    Do I 'support' the Greens? Well yes, sort of. I disagree with lots of their manifesto, but my daughters (early thirties) don't, and will vote for them when Independent, but not now. They will vote SNP as without Indy, they have little chance of enabling the climate issues they want addressed. A bit like me really, voting Labour to evict the Tories until an Indy Party (SNP) could usurp the Yoon Labour faction.
    I do believe those who object to 'Tory Free Scotland' slogans are being disingenuous - they know it means Westminster - you can't kid a kidder, pal.
    If you want rid of the SNP, independence will do the trick. Post-Indy, I'm pretty sure the formation of new political parties will occur left, right and centre from a core of ex-SNP. Mibbies Alba will get a look in - but probably not.
    Then I could pack-in all this polltticking and see more of, well, real life.
    Bon voyage, Yessers.

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    1. Catch ya on the other side of independence, Alan. It’ll be a while, at this rate.

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    2. Like most SNP loyalists, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with Alba and the damage they do to the cause of independence, whilst at the same time emphasising how irrelevant and unpopular they are! Make your mind up for goodness sake. Frankly, anyone who 'sort of' supports the Greens who are a far bigger threat to the SNP vote and are barking mad into the bargain doesn't persuade me of his arguments.

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    3. Alan, you say you want evidence about accusations "chucked out here" - membership - your previous Chief Exec resigned for telling lies about membership numbers - not tiny lies but 50k members more than there was. Your current Chief Exec also resigned for telling the same lies but he claimed your previous Chief Exec told him the lies. Not only that but at times they actually said membership had increased. Is that evidence enough for you - did you go on holiday and miss all that.

      Finances - where is the ring fenced £600k? How do you know "the polis haven't found anything". Have you got evidence backing that up. They certainly found a hidden motorhome.

      It seems to me you just don't like the facts.

      Here is another fact. Your Chief Exec is the man who helped scupper the referendum in 2014 with his Infamous Daily Record vow.

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    4. The campervan was parked outside Peter Murrells mothers house and registered to the SNP as owners, so hardly hidden was it?
      Alex Salmond scuppered the 2014 referendum in his TV debates with Alistair Darling, everybody and his dog knows that one
      Try reading Alistair Campell's book, you know the guy who was Tony Blair's spin doctor for the truth on Alex Salmond and the deal Labour offered him in exchange for Scotland
      Then they shafted him, but Salmond may yet get his peerage if he can convince enough people not to vote SNP
      But you know what? a pound to a penny they'll shaft him again because he's mug enough to fall for it

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    5. Independence for Scotland, “they certainly found a hidden motorhome” Ha ha ha.
      The motorhome was parked in a driveway in full view for all to see!

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    6. Alba will never get a look in because everybody knows they're just Salmonds revenge party of thieving gangsters so won't vote for them

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    7. Anon at 7.41pm - so you say Dr Jim - " everybody knows" - which pollster asked that question Jimbo? Are the polis investigating Alba? No wait a minute that's the SNP.

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    8. Desperate stuff from posters above trying to claim the motorhome wisnae hidden. Nobody in the SNP knew about it. Not your NEC, not your President, not your current party leader and FM.
      Sitting doing nothing for two years on Murrells mother's driveway there was no sign on it saying bought by the Chief Executive of the SNP.

      Oh and the best one is the numpties taking a Britnats word like Campbell when they are always going on about Labour lies. You couldnae make this stuff up. A Labour spin doctor is their source for their opinion. Well I suppose when you can accept a Daily Record Britnat editor as your party Chief Exec I suppose it's understandable.

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    9. Strange how this motorhome, which nobody knew anything about when asked, and nobody ever mentioned the existence of, we're now told was on public display for two years on the mother in law's driveway just to save money on parking fees. You can always rely on the cult to come up with another reason to drink the kool aid when it comes to Nicola.

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    10. The SNP folk who can see no wrong in the party and say things like "Alex Salmond scuppered 2014" are as bad as Alba people with their Scottish nonce party type angle. Simpletons.

      Plague on both your houses from my point of view. Get your act in order and start unifying or we'll be under Labour soon enough.

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    11. These numpties tell you to " try reading Alistair Campbell's book " As if I would want to do that never mind believe anything he wrote about Scottish independence. Although Sturgeon did get a cosy selfie with him when she was in London trying to save the UK from Brexit. Next they'll be telling me to read Sturgeon's memoirs for the truth. Mind you that will be a bit of a wait as it is now scheduled to be available in August 2025. The poor nicophants must be distraught at having to wait so long. Another blow is that they will have to fork out £28 per copy. Best start saving now numpties if you want to buy enough of them to boast how popular her book is. One hundred books will set you back £2800. Go on splash the cash you don't want to see it selling for a pound in the bargain books section.

      So why the delay in publication. Is it due to?

      1. She destroyed all her notes/files/ messages to prevent the Covid inquiries seeing them and is now having to make stuff up.

      2. Waiting to see what lies she can get away with?

      3. Waiting to see how Salmond's civil case against her, Lloyd and Evans turns out?

      4. Waiting to see how Branchform plays out?

      5. Waiting to see if she can find her husband?

      6. Or perhaps the book is going to be about 10,000 words long. She can go on a bit you know. If it is that long I doubt any of the numpties will read the whole book.

      So the book like the Scotland census will be a year late and of limited value.

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    12. Number 5不不不不不不

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    13. Nicola was able to fill venues of 15000 with people literally queueing up for seats. He book will sell like hot cakes. It takes time to write a good book you know. And Nichola Sturgeon does NOT do things in halves.

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    14. Like stealing 'ring fenced' money to buy a campervan?

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    15. Anon at 8.33am - I've lost count of the number of times you have spelt your idol Nicola's name wrong. " People literally queuing up for seats" - rubbish. Seats are booked at the Hydro. " fill venues of 1500" - one venue only .
      " Sturgeon does not do things in halves." - aye she couldnae do an independence referendum.

      Very low standard of accuracy by this poster is the common thread. Seems appropriate to describe this person as a numpty.

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  20. Terence Callachan Dundee , i will vote ALBA , i still beleive N Sturgeon and Alex Salmond are heroes for Scotland , for different reasons .Westminster is underhand , controls the TV the radio all the newspapers too they have businesses like tesco and asda and morrisons etc who are prepared to package everything Scottish in union jacks their power reaches far and wide its no accident our last two leaders were accused of crimes no guilty verdicts for either of them , there will be a third , its what they can do with their misuse of power.SNP is a great success it dethroned the britnat parties , im sure SNP has been infiltrated by britnats but we can clean them out and restore proper order as it used to be .As for ALBA , i will vote for them for the reasons given but also because it shows westminster that whatever they do they will never kill off Scottish independence , it will just keep popping up somewhere else.We need SNP and ALBA and Greens and other parties who support Scottish independence we beed them nore than ever because the english media as insteucted by westminster has succeeded in splitting the Scottish independence support into many groups including those who like and dont like A Salmond , those who like and dont like N Sturgeon those who want green political power and will vote for indy to get it those who want indy tory those who want indy labour and on and on it goes , in such circumstances it is important we have a Scottish independence coalition this is what a new independent Scottish parliament will be , so i say ALBA SNP and the rest you are allies against a greater foe

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    1. It’ll certainly be interesting to see what the pro Indy share of the vote will be at the upcoming GE and 2026 Holyrood election.

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    2. Terence says " our last two leaders were accused of crimes no guilty verdicts for either of them " this is inaccurate. Sturgeon has never faced any accusations in a trial so therefore she could not be found not guilty. Pity because the rest of your post is good.

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    3. Everyone knows the old adage: people get the leaders they deserve.

      Just what did we do wrong in 2014 to get what we got? The 55% deserved her, not us!

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