"‘Starmer doesn’t need Scottish seats to win the next election’ but SNP MPs will somehow have influence over him after the election, according to this SNP MSP.
Make it make sense."
I'm not sure if that's a Dugdale tribute tweet or if Dugdale's tweet was itself a copy of others (possibly the latter given that she's not always the most original of thinkers), but in fact Daisley is paraphrasing the SNP MSP somewhat misleadingly. Kaukab Stewart was not suggesting that the SNP would hold the balance of power after the general election, which might (depending on exact definitions of "win") contradict any suggestion that Starmer doesn't need Scottish seats to win. What she actually said was: "Voting SNP helps ensure there's a loud Scottish voice in the ear of the next Labour government."
That's only inconsistent with the idea that Labour will win a big majority based on English votes and seats if you really believe that if Scotland again votes a different way from the rest of the UK, the London government will just be able to use its English majority to ignore that. Given his ultra-unionist outlook it's possible that Daisley does believe that, but others are entitled to take a different view and to think a contested mandate does matter. A Labour government with a majority of seats in Scotland would be able to say that it speaks for Scotland and that its actions are one-and-the-same as the will of the Scottish people. But if another party has a Scottish majority, they will be in a position of moral authority to make representations to the government based on that distinct mandate.
That said, the SNP's messaging about a strong Scottish voice is utterly hopeless from the point of view of electoral strategy. You need to give people something concrete to vote for, and for that to be straightforward in a cause-and-effect manner. Labour can say "vote Labour on Thursday, get a new government on Friday", so to compete with that the SNP have got to show how an SNP vote can lead directly to independence.
Before we finish, a reminder that the Scot Goes Pop opinion poll fundraiser urgently needs a boost - let's not leave it in limbo for months. It's important that not all Scottish opinion polling is commissioned by anti-independence clients - we need to make sure that occasionally questions are asked that Yes supporters want asked. Donations can be made via the fundraiser page HERE.
However if you have a Paypal account the best way to donate is via direct Paypal payment, because that can totally eliminate fees depending on which option you select, and payment usually comes through instantly. My Paypal email address is:
jkellysta@yahoo.co.uk
“But if another party has a Scottish majority, they will be in a position of moral authority to make representations to the government based on that distinct mandate.”
ReplyDeleteI just don’t see it, James. The SNP’s had majority after majority of Scottish seats, including 2015’s utterly overwhelming one, and nothing they argued for made the difference in Westminster. That’s just not the system of government in the UK. There is one House of Commons, and a majority there means total, undiluted power, period.
That's the ultra-unionist Daisley view. As I said, other views are available.
DeleteIt is what happened in reality, at every single time of asking.
DeleteWhere was our "soft Brexit"?
Where was our continued access to the Common Market?
Where was "our" gender reform?
Where was our Section 30?
The UK parliament is indeed ultra unionist. That's the nature of the beast we are trying to escape.
If you agree with Daisley that only the UK majority matters, that's an argument for giving up on independence because the UK majority rejects even the Scottish right to self-determination. I'm sorry but I cannot accept that. Can you?
DeleteNicola Sturgeon did!
DeleteThen let's not be as foolish as her.
Delete@12:33 Now you're starting to get it. Will Scotland ever get independence by politely asking at Westminster? No. Never. A thousand times no. It has to be a fait accompli by the time it reaches them.
DeleteWe need a democratic event for Scots to vote directly for independence.
A referendum was the best choice, until Nicola torpedoed it in the "supreme" court. Thanks Agent Nickie!
A plebiscite election is the best available choice now. Notably, she's also given that a bad start by quitting when she did, with all the Branchform sleaze surrounding her.
Anon at 12:39: To clarify, are you accepting or rejecting the Daisley view that only the UK majority matters? If you are rejecting it, then to coin a phrase, "now you're starting to get it". Long overdue.
Delete@42: I don't care what Daisley thinks. I have my own eyes and saw, as I outlined at 12:27, the consistent pattern of actual process at Westminster.
DeleteI’m not minded to start denying proven reality.
We have experimentally verified that 90%+ of Scotland's MPs can ask for something and the UK can reject it with a smile. "Section 30 please" will never work against a majority government.
OK, so you agree with Daisley's view. In that case you're not getting it quite yet, but I live in hope.
Delete@50. If you're hoping for a Section 30, I’m certainly not there. So much time has already been wasted—and good people I've known and loved myself already dead—for all this waiting for something that's never going to happen just by meekly asking.
DeleteThe true triumph of Daisley is that he seems to have conquered the minds of purported independence supporters. Sad to see.
DeleteThe SNP effectively ran the 2015 GE on a platform of implementing Smith. Nothing to do with Independence.
DeleteEven with that, 56 MPs out of 59, Smith was watered down and Sewell implemented in the Scotland Act 2016 with the word "normally" via the House of Lords and Keen, which the UKSC liberally interpreted as "normally means never, who cares about the ScotParl?".
But without those 56 MPS, Smith might have been discarded with those later infamous words "Now is not the time".
Probably the only time the SNP made any difference at all at Westminster, with their later vague and "Progressive" woolly Encyclopaedia Brittanica manifestoes. Oh, they may have made a difference about fox-hunting in England.
Come on then, anon, what would you have us do? Fatten up our beloved SNP MPs cheeks? They're looking quite unhealthy enough, already.
DeleteYesindyref2 and Anon at 1:07, aren't you embarrassed to be bending over for Daisley and handing him the lube?
DeleteThat's all you've got, 1:11? Where's your argument, then? All you've got is Daisley's arsehole on your mind. ;)
DeleteProjection, Anon, projection...
DeleteAnon@1:11Aren't you embarrassed to be using homophobic insults? Not very woke of you! The party will be in touch to send you for reprogramming
DeleteWhy would Alba send me for woke reprogramming?
DeleteHilarious! Are you as thick as you are funny?
DeleteLet me know after your session with Daisley.
DeleteMore homophobia? I'm beginning to think you're over-compensating😘
DeleteIt's homophobic to support an independent Scotland? I've heard it all now.
DeleteNo just to talk about bending over and supplying the lube. But don't worry, I realise now that you really ARE much thicker than funny so I'll leave you to your 'jokes'
DeleteAnon at 6.07: Transphobia has no place in a modern Scotland. Apologise at once.
DeleteJames says:- " be in a position of moral authority " that may well be but Westminster disnae do moral authority. Scotland is a colony and Scotland is there to be told what to do and say or just shut up. 56 out of 59 MPs in 2015 provided a hell of a moral authority but the 56 were not just ignored but ignored and mocked.
ReplyDeleteThere is no democracy for Scotland in the UK and electing the same SNP lot will achieve exactly nothing. Their record proves this. An evidence based conclusion. The UK was designed from its inception to ensure England always gets what it wants. It has had well over 300 years to reform but quite simply the English like being in charge - ref England's Brexit vote.
If large numbers of people turn their backs on the SNP this will lead to a Labour majority in Scotland as well as the UK as a whole. Starmer will then be able to say Labour speaks for Scotland, and independence is dead in the water.
DeleteI hope these people who abstain, spoil ballot papers or vote for fringe parties will be happy with what they’ve helped achieve, ie independence completely off the table for many years.
Starmer and the media will all do that anyway.
DeleteNicola's the one who took indy off the table. Her handmaidens still running the party aren't in any mind to put it back on.
Out with the lot of them!
I'll certainly be happy to see this shower of SNP frauds out on their fat behinds. Since Sturgeon took over independence has been off the table anyway. Until we get a real SNP back it makes no difference who we send down to the Westminster swamp.
DeleteGive them Jack McConnell. He can return Scotland's billions, because we're too thick to spend them. How he enjoyed it the first time…
DeleteWell the SNP certainly know how to spend money - want to buy a brand new motorhome?
DeleteAnon at 12.27pm - there are two scenarios.
Delete1. Vote SNP to continue the previous 9 years of independence being off the table for a further 5 more years at least. That is a given.
2. Not vote SNP and see if it changes. There is hope independence may be back on the table in going for option 2. There is no hope in option 1. It will be the same crap at the next UK GE.
Option 2 is hope over option 1 capitulation. Hope over SNP capitulation to Westminster.
@IfS. Precisely.
DeleteOption 2 gives the SNP a far more precious gift than the safe return of several dozen fatsos. It gives them a fright. It puts the fear of electoral death in them. It offers them a chance to change, before it's too late.
Alex Salmond took independence off the table when he tanked it in 2014 and dumped a defeated party on Nicola Sturgeon
DeleteAnon at 6.38pm - this post demonstrates how some people see a national referendum on Scottish independence - a defeated SNP this tosser says. The SNP weren't standing - nobody was voting for or against against the SNP. These people seem to think the SNP own independence and the people who vote for independence.
DeleteThe SNP were so defeated according to this idiot that they won 56 out of 59 seats in 2015 with 50% of the vote. The nonsense just keeps on coming from these SNP numties.
The way to break out of the union, as I see it:
ReplyDeleteHold a democratic vote asking the Scottish people if they wish to declare independence. This can be a plebiscite election if we've had the right to hold a referendum snatched away from us.
Then, when Scotland votes yes, step up and seek recognition in the international community, starting in Europe, including from our English neighbours. They are one partner among many at this point, because we are going free.
It'll be a hell of a lot harder for them to turn their backs on this than a Section 30 request. Once the people themselves have voted for something directly, the permanent unionist majority in Westminster becomes moot. We go into a whole other game, where all of Empire's fallen possessions have already been on their way to independence.
the SNP are so badd,
ReplyDeleteif Alba can come up with a catchy 3 word slogan ( it won the last election for Bozo ) they should wipe the floor with the SNP, and lead Scotland to the Independence we all want.
what about,
' ALEX SALMOND'S GREAT '
yup that does it for me, I'm off to check who my Alba candidate is for my constituency.
Alba? Who are they?
DeleteDo you not have Google, hun?
DeleteUnfortunately the only three word slogan that applies to Alba as far as Scotland is concerned is "Salmond tells lies"
DeleteAnon at 1:21 the problem is we don’t have a majority in favour of independence at the moment. We need to get support above 50%.
ReplyDeleteI agree it's too early.
DeleteI’m not sure it's "us" who need to win people over to the cause, however. I've been doing that for years, and frankly there's only so much sway you can have on folk as an ordinary pleb.
It takes a Scotgov determined to make it happen. One we haven't had since 2014.
It's been consistently above 50% in Ipsos polls. There is no "problem" and it's not "too early".
DeleteOkay James, I'll concede you know more about polling than me. Why should we trust Ipsos polls more than other companies? Do they use a better weighting method? (I vaguely remember something about weighting to past-vote recall…)
DeleteCertainly, we shouldn't be cherry picking. I don't expect you are. I'd just like to be able to defend this source.
Ipsos are the only telephone pollster, they don't weight by 2014 vote recall (for good reasons) and there's a case to be made that they are the UK's gold standard pollster.
DeleteAs things stand right now, we're not in a favourable moment for a plebiscite election. The SNP has a stink of sleaze about them, and lacks the balls to push for indy. Labour victory in England seems in the bag, and they've not had a chance to make a total arse of government yet.
DeleteIndependence is near 50:50 in the polls, despite all this, which is heartening news for all of us who want Scotland out the union. There is no such thing as an indy-friendly UK government, however, so we need more than just good numbers. We need hunger, drive and focus. We need Yes leadership.
Once Labour reminds Scots what they're really all about, we'll be in a good position to make a push. Hopefully by then the SNP has a leader in position to make that push.
Well James that was very kind of the anon to concede that you know more about polls than him. At least we know the anon is unlikely to be Scottish Skier.
Delete"We" as in the SNP leadership, and "securing" as in "you'll have had your once in a generation?"
DeleteReferendum's out. It has to be a plebiscite election. That'll take a firm commitment from the party leader to campaign on independence alone. It ain't happening until Team Nicola's thrown out.
What the hell’s a plebiscite election?????
DeleteI can hardly think of a more self-explanatory name than a plebiscite election. Have a think about it - you'll get there, old chap.
DeleteAh of course, an election that's a plebiscite. What was I thinking? I've been a fool. Thank you for your patience.
DeleteLol.
DeleteAfter reading multiple posts by SNP numpties almost making out he was a superhero for independence. I thought I would watch Yousaf's interview with Kuensberg.
ReplyDeleteYousaf said:-" The issue that I said would be the defining mission of the government that I lead we had in 2023 93k fewer children in poverty. " To be fair to Yousaf that is what he punted in his leadership hustings - poverty - would be his priority.
So there you are the great independence leader/interview that SNP numpties were punting is nonsense - in his own words he is more like a pre Starmer Labour politician. His priority is poverty - very commendable in itself - but if we were independent with all our own resources and funds instead of only getting part of it back from the thieves in London poverty could be massively reduced.
Anything he said about independence was pretty thin gruel. He says he is going to ask for a sec 30 again - unbelievable. Plenty about making Scotland Tory free. Plenty about working with Starmer to reduce child poverty across the UK.
In summary, he is all about poverty. Independence the same old con about a sec 30 request. So these SNP posters saying he was strong on independence in this interview are nowt but SNP propagandists hoping people will fall for the same crap Sturgeon punted in 2019. May and Johnstone said pissof with your sec 30 and Starmer will tell him to take a hike as well even if the SNP get all 57 out of 57 MPs. The UK is NOT a democracy but some people in Scotland still act as if it is. Yousaf ain't getting my vote for an old Sturgeon con.
Cannae stand Kuensberg. Thanks for taking on that onerous duty.
DeleteWe all remember the rush Humza was in to file his Section 30 request on day one at Bute House, right? He might have even squeezed it in before taking morning prayers.
Rest assured he'll do exactly the same when Prime Minister Sir Lord Kier takes office, and we'll hear just as little fuss about the two-letter answer.
Anon at 3.55pm - hey I've only just recovered from listening to him during all those leadership hustings where it sounded like his advisers had told him to remember to mention independence at least once in each hustings such was his enthusiasm for the subject. As Starmer has taken Labour further to the right than Blair it looks to me the SNP just want to be a kind of nu Labour in Scotland - a devolutionalist party but these pesky independence supporters keep causing trouble for them by wanting a referendum.
Delete@IfS: You've got to feel for them, really. Poor professional SNP politicians, having to talk up this Indy nonsense in public, but cringing about it when in the company of their good pals in Labour and the rest. It's like making your living off those numpties who believe "The End is Nigh!" If it is: then why bother doing anything down here? Being elected to Westminster and messing around in a neighbouring nation's politics? If we're really just about to leave, why meddle with all this UK stuff? Oh you silly numpties. Yes, yes, it's coming soon, tick-tock, and all that. Eye-roll…
DeleteThe comments posted here about the SNP can at times enter the realm of the unrealistic almost to the point of being facile. The trajectory of the SNP transcends the simple categorizations given in some of the comments. The party's strategic approach ,is a testament to the party's comprehension that a party in government in practice must transcend unidimensional objectives and instead embrace a broader policy spectrum reflective of a conscientious commitment to the many and varied needs of the Scottish populace. What these critics wrongly characterize as a departure from an unswerving fixation on independence in fact underscores a mature and sophisticated political ethos that aims to address a wide array of concerns among the Scottish populace. This approach does, regrettably, chafe against the aspirations of the more ardent adherents of secession, but it is the only approach that is capable of garnering a comprehensive mandate from the mainstream of the Scottish electorate.
DeleteAnon at 6.53pm - now you are definately Stephen Noon or AI. What a cracking piece of gaslighting. " unidimensional objectives " now that phrase had me laughing. I've been well chafed by the SNP for many a year now.
DeleteI think I may ditch Independence for Scotland and sign on as "Ardent Adherent of Secession." Or " Ardent Adherent of Independence.
Somebody's swallowed a dictionary in the hope of sounding like an intelligent numpty - but he's still a numpty.😂
DeleteWhoever he/she is, I very much doubt an actual independence supporter would ever use a phrase such as "the more ardent adherents of secession", so the fact that he/she is so supportive of the SNP is quite telling.
DeleteSee all these SNP apologists with their I know things haven't been great for a while but I can change just give me another chance crap they don't seem to realise it brings back bad memories of JK Rowling in 2014 with her same Better Together speel re staying in the union. The union hasn't changed for the better, in fact it has got worse, and is now giving Scotland a right good kicking on a regular basis. Would the SNP change for the better if we vote for them again? What do you think?
ReplyDeleteIfs, well I’ll be voting SNP, as far as I’m concerned it’s a no brainer. We need to get behind the only party that can realistically deliver independence. I won’t be wasting my vote, unlike some , it would seem.
DeleteI'll waste mine for ya, big man, dinnae fear.
DeleteIfS: your comment is off-key. Nobody said that bringing forward independence was an easy project, or one without its ups and downs. What you can be sure of is that if independence does not happen that will not have been for any lack of effort or lack of good agency on the part of the SNP.
Delete"What you can be sure of is that if independence does not happen that will not have been for any lack of effort or lack of good agency on the part of the SNP."
DeleteYeah, gonna disagree with you there, anon. They've wasted many chances—does Brexit ring a bell to you?—and the years just keep on passing. The "tick tock" now isn't for the union, it's for the SNP to wake up to its purpose.
Hint: they'll not find it in the bars or restaurants of Old London town. Not for want of trying, eh?
Anon 4:51 It certainly IS a no brainer and you seem well qualified in that department😄
Delete'If independence does not happen that will not have been for any lack of effort or lack of good agency on the part of the SNP'. Quite possibly the most deluded comment I have ever read on this site
DeleteAnon at 5.38pm says " your comment is off key" who talks like that ? and what the hell would an "on key " comment be. My question was would the SNP change for the better if everybody just voted for them as per 2019. The SNP have been lying to their voters for 9 years - why trust them now when they ain't even promising a referendum this time. Sturgeon's gang and her Unionist Lord Advocate and her Unionist Chief Executive should take a hike as a first step. Not one of the SNP numpties said yes the SNP would change. They didn't even address the question. They just want our vote - that's it.
DeleteThe only realistic way of achieving independence is via a proper referendum, as in 2014. Whether we like it or not, this is the reality.
ReplyDeleteWe need a component SNP government in Holyrood in the coming years. This will hopefully drive up support for independence, ideally well above 50%, something we’ve never managed before.
Agree 100%.
DeleteWhen anon at 7.08pm says a proper referendum that is code for a Britnat controlled referendum. This anon poster has no credibility at all. He says that a > 50 % polling is " something we have never managed before " incorrect it has happened on many occasions. Poorly informed numpty or Britnat - you can decide.
DeleteAnonymous at 7:08pm, excellent post. Of course the only route to independence is through a conventional referendum. Those going on about de facto referendums and plebiscite elections are up with the birds and have lost all sense of reality.
DeleteWhat a stupid comment. The total reverse is true. A conventional referendum is completely off the table, and anyone still pining for one just didn't get the memo.
DeleteKC - so you are saying Sturgeon "lost all sense of reality" when she said there was going to be a de facto referendum of she was lying.
DeleteAlso how can you say " excellent post " to anon at 7.08pm when it is factually incorrect that >50% has never happened.
Nicola should have sprung indyref2 during Covid when we were well north of 50, sustained for a year. Holyrood elections still happened in that period. We could have done it, won it, and be free.
DeleteWhy didn’t you, Tricky Nickie? Where did you think conning us would get you? Are you feeling good right now?
Anon at 11.05pm - yep Sturgeon had a vote in 2021 to get herself and her gang re elected but she couldnae have a vote for Scottish independence. May 2021 Holyrood could have been a de facto referendum. I said that on SGP many times but numpties said there was no need because oor Nicola will have a "proper referendum" in late 2021 or 2022. When those years went by the numpties then latched on to Sturgeon's last but one con - a referendum on 19/10/23. The final con was the de facto UK GE promise. After all this numpties still think Sturgeon is great. I am absolutely gobsmacked how gullible and stupid these people are.
DeleteAnonymous at 11:05, the big problem is the only time support for independence was above 50% for any length of time was during covid. This was because Sturgeon was grandstanding every day in her daily briefings, making out we were doing better than the rest of the UK in the fight against the virus, when quite clearly we weren’t. Thousands fell for the nonsense though. This was typical Sturgeon, trying to make political gain out of a tragedy.
DeleteWe need to get support up to that level for a sustained period if we’re to have any chance of securing a referendum. This is the only realistic route to independence.
@9:14. Interesting comment. You (correctly) blame Nicola for exploiting the pandemic for her own cynical, personal political advancement. Quite agreed there.
DeleteYet you follow it up with an implied appeal to the Section 30 route? What's not adding up for you? That parrot's pining for the fjørds, mate.
Isn't Kezia Dugdale married to Jenny Gilruth? I know for sure which one is the bigger political balloon heid, and it isn't Dugdale.
ReplyDeleteCounting the days until Jenny switches to Labour. Come out for the union.
DeleteAs Operation Branchform is 2.5 years and counting, I see some possible reasons for this.
ReplyDelete1. No crime has been committed, the money came to life by mysterious supernatural factors, broke down the ring fence and made a run for it. Current whereabouts unknown. The polis are searching everywhere for it. Hence why it is taking so long. No British state involvement just standard polis operations.
2. A crime has been committed, the polis have the info but the British state are preventing the prosecutions taking place until nearer the UK GE.
3. No crime has been committed and the British state are keeping it alive until after the UK GE.
4. The polis are incompetent.
5. The polis think Murrell has the money stached on his person but all officers are refusing to to do a body search.
6 The COPFS are incompetent and malicious.
7 Murrell is running an international crime syndicate from Uddingston and it is taking a long time to investigate everything.
8. A crime has been committed but COPFS are protecting the SNP.
Other reasons may be possible.
Well regardless of what we think of Sturgeon and the SNP, as supporters of independence, we have to hope and pray no crime has been committed.
DeleteIf it has, I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say it would be disastrous.
You can stay down on your knees hoping and praying for Nicola and her financier. She's had you down there for years already, begging for indyrefs that will not come. Why not just make it your whole lifetime? Just in case!
DeleteThe crime that's been committed is Nicola conned us out of our clear shot at Independence. She's dodgy AF. The way she and he owned the party, the SNP is 100% complicit with the theft and deserves the fallout. "Tick tock."
Anon at 9:42, in no way was I defending Sturgeon.
DeleteI was just stating the obvious. If you think there won’t be consequences for the independence cause in the event of charges being brought then you’re living in denial.
Anon at 9.31am - One of the key benefits of independence is that we can vote for the politicians we want and vote out the politicians we don't want. If a crime has been committed it won't change my mind about independence if anything it strengthens it. We need to be able vote out our politicians instead of getting what England votes for or being blackmailed in to voting for dodgy politicians because it will damage independence.
DeleteThe SNP were warned by many including Salmond that having a husband and wife running the SNP is not a good idea - but SNP numpties turned a blind eye. Any criticism, even when it is bloody obvious, is met with you are a Unionist or stop rocking the boat. The SNP is paying for it now. Is Murrell still locked in the garden shed or away to Portugal?
@IfS: hit the nail on the head. Scotland deserves so much better than this. “They may be scheming crooks but they’re *our* scheming crooks” just isn’t good enough.
Delete@IfS: 4 and 6 are definitely true. I've seen both of them at work, having been a juror and a witness at different points in time during the Sturgeon years. Neither institution instills confidence, shall we say, when in direct contact.
ReplyDeleteThis post is disingenuous. Probably very likely no crime whatsoever has been committed given that the investigation has not found anything.
ReplyDeleteNicola Sturgeon is much too astute and accomplished a professional politician to have committed a crime.
DeleteWhat will change your mind? Her trial, her conviction or her sentencing?
DeletePromise us you won't become a justice denier like those Trumper-diddies in America.
Anon at 9.49am - very interesting.You say with certainty the investigation has not found anything. Others have posted this before. Strangely when I ask how they know this they don't answer. So go on anon - tell us how you have this info. Presumably you can tell us where the £600k is and explain why a motorhome is in a polis compound as well and the mysterious Murrell loans. Come on just clear it all up now and we can all forget about it.
DeleteProbably there is a perfectly innocent and reasonable explanation.
DeleteThe delusion on this site is off the scale. There is no case to answer apparently yet nobody can explain where the 'ring fenced' indyref2 money went. Nor the fancy motorhome which the party treasurer said he knew nothing about before suddenly 'remembering' after he was arrested. Meanwhile poor old Mike Russell was campaigning in an old horse box while a brand new shiny 'battlebus' was gathering rust at Peter's mum's. Honestly, Nicola could eat a baby on live tv and there are people who would come on here to justify it.
Delete@11:37 Here? They show up everywhere. Ever dared take a peek at WGD? They’re even posted above the line there, and you’ll be banned for your critique!
DeleteJust imagine how desperate they’ll be when she really is on trial. Bless.
I've said it before and I'm saying it again the WGD mob are like Trump supporters. Sturgeon cannae do anything wrong - like Trump she is a gift from God you know. If you criticise the SNP it is like blasphemy you know. You will never go to independence heaven and live in the UK hell for ever and ever. Only true believers can enter the kingdom of the Murrells.
DeleteAs a consequence of watching the Kuenssberg programme to see the new superhero ( 🤣🤣🤣) of Scottish independence Humza Yousaf I caught this shocker of a remark by Tom Hunter.
ReplyDelete" Ireland is gonna run a £60 billion surplus over the next three years Scotland's gonna run a £30 billion deficit. "
Now Hunter never says if he is for Scottish independence or not. First thing to say is that £30 billion figure for Scotland is just supercharged GERS mince. Remember GERS - remember the SNP said they would replace it. The SNP government still produce this Britnat propaganda document. Can't say I have ever seen it saying a £30 billion figure so I have no idea where Hunter gets his figure from. It is just one of many over promise under deliver areas by Sturgeon. If it was me the first thing I would do would be to bin this report but the SNP/Greens spend their time wasting money on bampot policies.
The obvious conclusion of any thinking independence supporter would be - just as well Ireland is independent of the UK then because if it wisnae there is no way it would have a £60 billion surplus. That thought never crossed Hunter's mind or any of the panel members on Kuenssberg's show. Also comparing an INDEPENDENT Ireland's economy with the COLONY of Scotland is just plain silly. Apples and Pears Mr Hunter. You are either not that bright or a Britnat.
Methinks Hunter is a Britnat but like a sensible business man disnae want to alienate any potential customers.
Typical BBC - let's people like Hunter spout nonsense figures about Scotland with no correction. I very rarely watch Britnat Kuenssberg's show. You would never know she grew up in Glasgow then went to Edinburgh uni. British through and through. She did, like a lot of neo liberals, also go to the USA for a year.
Personally I thought Sir Tom Hunter spoke well and talked a lot of sense.
DeleteSuits you, Sir.
DeleteAnon at 12.25pm so what is the source of the £30 billion deficit? Where does he get this figure from - Douglas Ross's wee blue book on econonmics?
DeleteAnon at 12.25pm - no rush do take your time.
DeleteThe only realistic route to independence is via a referendum.
ReplyDeleteAll this talk of de facto referendums and plebiscite elections is pie in the sky, and frankly embarrassing.
The only way we can get a referendum is if we have a strong SNP, performing well as a government in Holyrood. This, coupled with maybe people realising Labour in Westminster are no better than the Tories, would probably drive support for independence to record levels.
This, make no mistake, is what we need to strive for.
KC is Scotland a colony?
DeleteAnd what, precisely, would ever convince the Uk gov to allow their cash cow possession the chance to hold a vote for independence?
DeleteExactly the 70, 80, 90% mince that will keep SNP bums ever fatter on seats for a lifetime, by any chance? Get a grip.
IFS, of course not. Anybody who says we are is just talking nonsense.
DeleteAnon at 12:27, it’s you that needs to get a grip.
KC, you're the embarrassment. You know as well as any of us that a conventional referendum is now completely impossible and that a plebiscite election is not only the most likely way of achieving independence, but in fact the only conceivable way. And yet you pretend black is white and accuse those who have faced up to reality of "pie in the sky".
DeleteIf people start to wonder if you are not who you claim to be, it'll be understandable.
KC - thanks for the answer. So what is Scotland in your opinion if we are politically controlled by another country and people from that country can come to Scotland unhindered. Oh and we have no right to self determination.
DeleteIFS, we’re not politically controlled by another country though. The UK as a whole votes for the Westminster government.
DeletePlus, of course, if nationalists carry out their threat to shun the SNP at the GE, then the incoming Labour government are going to have a lot of Scottish MPs.
Your argument is a nonsense.
I'm coming close to the conclusion that you are a unionist posing as an SNP supporter to try to build support for an impossible option while discrediting the only realistic way forward. Your use of the word "nationalists" is perhaps is a bit odd when seen in the context of who you claim to be, for example.
DeleteKC - so England having about 540 MPs in Westminster and Scotland having 57 doesn't give England control - is that what you are saying? It's basic arithmetic KC.
DeleteKC I'll ask again what is Scotland if it is not a colony?
DeleteAn "equal partner in a family of nations", right KC?
DeleteAn abusive family where one member always gets his way and the others must meekly suffer the consequences.
Oh but treat him nice, he'll give us a Section 30 someday…
Ifs, Scotland is one of the 4 nations that form the United Kingdom.
DeleteElementary I’d have thought.
James, it’s not the impossible option. It’s up to us all to get support for independence up above 50% for a prolonged period. Then the UK government will eventually have to give in to considerable pressure, and grant a second referendum. Surely this must be the preferred route, and would certainly be recognised by the global community.
DeleteOh, and I can assure you I’m not a unionist.
K C - I note that you ignored my elementary arithmetic in my post @1.34pm. 540 MPs versus 57 - so you don't think that gives England complete control over Scotland. Really. The English who set it up in 1707 were convinced England had catched Scotland - that's what the Speaker said. The English who voted against self determination for Scotland last week disagree with you.
DeleteThe nation of N. Ireland that cannae vote for the party that governs it in Westminster is a nation is it.
K C - says " grant a second referendum" - now that is a very subservient comment KC the sort of thing someone in a colony would say. Who is granting or not granting this referendum - colonial England - to its colony Scotland. So far to back up your argument Scotland is not a colony is to say it is a nation. Well yes you can be a nation and a colony. Anything else to back up your argument?
Delete"James, it’s not the impossible option. It’s up to us all to get support for independence up above 50% for a prolonged period"
DeleteThat's already happened. We did it. Through all our tremendous efforts, we got to your Holy Grail of prolonged 50%+ support for Yes in 2020-21. It was an amazing achievement in which we can all take huge pride. But it did not, presumably to your absolute astonishment, have the effect you predicted. You have thus already been proved wrong. Your position has already turned out to be, if I may say so, "pie in the sky".
All I can really suggest is that you abandon this hopeless line of argument, and tell us what alternative you have to offer now that your preferred option of a conventional referendum has been ruled out.
So let's see if I understand K C and others plan. Drive up support for independence to a level that will guarantee a yes victory even if a diddy like Yousaf, who has minimal interest in Scottish independence, is leading the campaign. So who thinks Westminster will "grant" a sec 30.
DeleteEureka!!
I think I have stumbled upon the true SNP secret plan that explains all these crap policies and decisions by the SNP, even Sturgeon's sudden departure and the mystery of the motorhome. They really want to drive independence way back down to something like 10% where a PM sometime in the future will say I'm sick of these whining Scots give them their bloody referendum thay have no chance of winning it anyway. By this time Sturgeon will have served her jail sentence and she will suddenly return as leader and say I've been keeping the £600 k just for this moment and I went to jail for the cause, as part of our secret plan. Yes will rise to 60% the referendum will be won and Sturgeon will be hailed as a martyr and the great leader we all knew her to be.
It makes as much sense as what K C and others punt - ZERO.
K C - I asked you for any other arguments to back up your comment that Scotland is not a colony. Sorry to tell you K C saying " I despair " isnae an argument. I guess you despair because you dinnae have an argument - oh well better luck nextime.
DeleteOh that's right your argument for getting a sec 30 is no argument that survives the most basic of scrutiny. So you failed to make your case twice. Oh well better luck next time again.
IFS, surely it’s obvious, even to you, that only a referendum will be accepted by, not just Westminster, but even more importantly, the wider international community.
DeleteWhen will the penny finally drop?
K C - what makes you think Westminster would accept a yes result even if they were crazy enough to " grant", there's that subservient word again, a referendum when polls for yes are high. You couldnae come up with any argument to back up your previous assertions why not try this one. Nothing to stop English MPs just voting it down in Westminster. Plenty voted down the full English Brexit why would they vote to give away their wealthy colony. Come on try and post an argument or it will be three failures in a row.
DeleteThat route was closed in 2014. Never again. They know we’re serious.
DeleteDo you think the British empire fell apart because Westminster granted all the overseas colonies section 30s too? They all seem to be accepted by the international community of free and independent nations.
Anon at 5:50, what’s the British Empire got to do with it?
DeleteDear oh dear!
KC: an election in which SNP got more than 50% of the votes would carry valuable indicative status.
DeleteAnon at 6:14, indeed it would. That’s why I’ve been saying everybody needs to get behind the SNP. It’s ridiculous that so many appear to be going to abstain, spoil ballot papers or vote for fringe parties at the GE. If they carry out this threat, the SNP will be lucky to get near 40%, let alone 50.
DeleteThat’s really going to boost the independence cause isn’t it!
If we ask for a Section 30 order one more time, we'll be a laughing stock not just here in the UK but the world over. The conventional referendum route is dead. Most of us have got that memo, but it seems there are still one or two (purported) stragglers.
DeleteThe SNP doesn't own the independence vote, they WILL be lucky to get 40% and deservedly so as they've done sod all with all their mandates thus far
DeleteOther parties than the SNP are thought to be a wasted vote.
DeleteK C - I refer to my post at 5.16 pm. Do you need more time or do I assume that is your third failure.
DeleteAnon8:15 I don't care, I'd rather waste my vote than vote for wasters
DeleteOne of the best known columnists in Scotland, wrote for the Herald and the Sunday Herald even before it became the only Indy supporting newspaper during the first indyref, was Ian Bell. Not really my cup of tea as he was hard left, though in a totally genuine way. But you couldn't ever doubt he wanted Independence for Scotland.
ReplyDeletehttps://archive.is/1FYSX
"I'm a nationalist. This is where I live and where I live would be better off making its own, fundamental choices" (2nd May 2015)
Sadly died months after, at the age of 59, if he was still alive perhaps we'd be independent already. Yousaf should read this archived article and be ashamed of himself. So should Sturgeon. I have still shied away from the word "nationalist" because of its historical connotations - that's because the un-national unionists cynically pushed that angle without the SNP shouting them down and being proud of the fact that they unashamedly (in the past) represented Scotland not the flaming UK.
In his honour I at last proudly say: "I am a nationalist".
Peter Piper
When you live in a colony the proudest thing you can be is a nationalist.
ReplyDeleteOther options are open to you:
1. Colony denier and
2. Collaborator with the colonialists.