Sunday, November 13, 2022

Thoughts on treason

On a previous thread, our regular commenter "Independence for Scotland" disagreed with my view that it was inappropriate and offensive for Stuart Campbell to call Pete Wishart MP a "traitor" the other day.  I'm just going to briefly explain why I think it was.  There's a pretty clear gulf between the way in which people use the words "betray" and "traitor" in normal speech.  Common or garden "betrayal" is something a large number of people are routinely claimed to be guilty of - for example, if someone has an affair, they are said to have betrayed their spouse or partner.  The fact that it's so common doesn't mean it's not a serious thing to accuse someone of, but nevertheless it's not remotely on a par with "traitor", a descriptor which is generally saved for a very select few, the absolute worst of the worst.  Criminal codes generally reserve the severest punishments for treason - indeed Britain technically kept the death penalty on the statute book for treason until the late 1990s, a whole three decades after it was abolished for murder in the 1960s.

So for that reason I wouldn't think twice about suggesting a politician had "betrayed" the independence movement, if indeed that's what I believed they had done, but I would never call them a "traitor".  Anyone who uses that word is almost automatically going to sound like a zealot or extremist, because it carries all sorts of connotations about the "penalty" the supposed traitor should suffer.  It's almost fatuous to apply a term like that to Pete Wishart, an unimportant and faintly ridiculous figure who spends half his life running away from root vegetables.

What was it he did that was supposedly so "treasonable", you may wonder?  It was simply that when he wanted to become Speaker of the House of Commons, he was asked whether he would hypothetically vote against independence with his casting vote as Speaker if that was what convention demanded, and he said he would.  That was just a statement of the bleedin' obvious - you can't take on an office without committing yourself to the duties of that office.  Any SNP MP becoming Speaker would be required to give up their party affiliation and become neutral on all matters of political dispute, including independence.  That's one reason why it's so obviously stupid for the SNP - or any other small party for that matter - to seek the office of Speaker.  Holding on to your own representatives is far more important.   You can maybe imagine the Liberal Democrats thinking to themselves that they have a "duty" to give up one of their number if that is thought to be in the best interests of parliament, but it should be no part of any pro-independence party's function to help make the British parliament work, particularly not at a cost to the independence cause.

My guess is that the bid to become Speaker was Wishart's own crazy idea and his SNP colleagues just indulged him because they knew he had zero chance anyway.  In his own mind he probably saw it as a de facto audition for some kind of lesser role within the Commons committee system.

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And just a quick thanks to the people who have got in touch privately over the last 48 hours to offer supportive words after the latest social media pile-on from Stuart Campbell and his fan club, and to encourage me to keep speaking out.  Although it may sometimes appear that it's only the "trendy" wing of the SNP, the Greens and the ex-RISE radical left who have wised up to Mr Campbell, in fact there are a good number of people from other parts of the movement, including card-carrying members of the Alba Party, who realise that he's ceased to be a friend of the independence cause and that to some extent he's become a problem that needs to be solved (not that there are any easy solutions).  However, they understandably feel unable to say that in public because they know they would be instantly monstered, including by people they regard as friends.  But I, at least, have nothing to lose by continuing to speak up - or if there is anything to lose, it's barely worth having if it entails going along with the pretence that Mr Campbell is somehow a "vital asset" that the movement "needs". (In reality, his following among the general public is very limited, and probably always has been - which is just as well in view of some of his behaviour over recent years.) 

Mr Campbell's disciples may have conveniently forgotten the events of January 2021 five minutes after they happened, but I certainly didn't - that was the moment at which any lingering illusions I had about who Mr Campbell is, and what he's about, melted away forever.  Others I've spoken to have had their own similar individual moments of epiphany, often when Mr Campbell's vindictive wrath threatened to cause them (or actually did cause them) genuine personal harm.  So the endless attempts on social media to bully, mock or "yawn" me into silence, and to make me think that there's much too high a price to pay for making further legitimate criticisms of Mr Campbell in future, will if anything have the opposite effect from the one intended.  I don't respond favourably to bullying, and it simply redoubles my determination to continue to call out, for example, any misrepresentations about independence polling numbers that may appear on Mr Campbell's "closed", "non-existent" website now that he appears to have returned to blogging full-time.  Blatant fibs about polling have become a persistent problem on Wings since he first turned against the campaign for independence several years ago - can anyone see any particular reason why they should go unchallenged?  Nope, me neither.

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41 comments:

  1. I saw the "yawn, stop being boring" tweets. That's a silencing technique just like any other. Ignore it, and stick to your guns.

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  2. A standard part of any bullying campaign instigated by the fake Reverend is to suggest the target is mentally ill or "deranged". His army of followers take their cue from that, hence the nature of the replies you've been receiving on Twitter. If it's any consolation, you're not his first target, you won't be the last, and others (mostly women) have had it much worse.

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    1. "(Mostly women)" Ok anonymous as nobody else is going to ask I'll do it. Any evidence for that claim or are you as bad as Campbell. Also in your research did you include trans women as women?

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    2. Cat got your tongue anonymous. You claim Campbell suggests people are mentally ill with no evidence but there you are saying he is a misogynist with no evidence.

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  3. Jesus, I wasn't aware of that 2021 incident until now. I'm so sorry you went through that. I had no idea David Halliday works for WOS.

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    1. That was a shock to me too. I've never met him in person, but he'd messaged me quite a number of times on a friendly basis, so it was a bit of a lightning bolt when he suddenly sent me menacing messages as Stuart Campbell's solicitor. I'm not a solicitor, so I don't know how the professional ethics work, but I did wonder if he shouldn't have refused to act for Campbell on that occasion due to a conflict of interest.

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  4. Yup, call Pete Wishart "Carrots", "Pension" or "Slippers", but calling him "Traitor" can only backfire.

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    1. Do I have your permission to call him wishy washy Wishart? Is that ok in the free speech world of the anonymites? Can you provide a list of banned words in the anonymite world that cannot be used against a yellow badge holder like Pension Pete? I wouldn't like to backfire.

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    2. You speak with great wisdom. Give me a day or two and I'll knock you up a list.

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    3. Great I can't wait to see it anonymous. Thanks for the compliment.

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    4. Aw come on Anonymous - get a move on with the list. Is Judas Wishart ok? Just asking for a friend.

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    5. Like a Sturgeon you just cannae rely on these anonymous posters to deliver.

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  5. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

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  6. Off topic I know, but James do you know if there's been any indy polls lately or anything in the works?

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    1. To the best of my knowledge, there's been nothing since Rishi Sunak became Prime Minister. The most recent poll was the Panelbase one commissioned by Alba.

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  7. "Is appropriate or responsible language." James that is what you said in the original post.

    " appropriate and offensive" is what you say above.

    So to clarify my position if Wishart thinks becoming Speaker is appropriate as a supposed independence seeking MP then I am happy to agree with the offensive part of your statement above as that is what it should be taken to be and is entirely appropriate. I find it offensive that someone like Wishart hoovers up votes on the falsehood of wanting Scottish independence while talking ( or joking as he subsequently tried to claim) with his pals in Westminster about becoming Speaker. I do not find it the least bit funny.

    Now it may be irresponsible for a blogger to use that word, and Campbell has diligently prevented its use on his blog until now, but I am just an ordinary member of the public and I speak as I see it and it does not trouble me in the least. It won't be the first time I have been called an extremist for wanting Scotland to be free but it is normally by unionists or numpties. Anyone who voted SNP in days past used to be called extremist. Pity the SNP are now part of the establishment now.

    You present a well argued case for not using the word and I guess that is why Campbell has been in agreement with you for so long but I think people are just far to nice to the SNP as the Tories cripple Scotland and remove its resources and Sturgeon has a nice wee meeting with her new bestie called Rishi Sunak and Yousaf begs him for more of our money back to help the NHS.

    Of course some btl posters on other blogs think I am just you posting. Now that really is inappropriate, irresponsible and offensive language😇.

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    1. God's sake. Paul Kavanagh knows exactly who you are, even if his readers don't.

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    2. You are in Somerset instead.

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    3. Another anonymite detective strikes again. I can also confirm I am not related to Mr Kavanagh nor am I in Somerset. What is it about all these detectives? With a snidey wee one liner I'll do my own detecting and say it has all the hallmarks of WGD numpty Alex Lomax who never has anything worthwhile to post.

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  8. Some really top class articles from you over the past few days, James. I'm no fan of RevStu, so that may partly explain why I like them so much. Keep up the good work.

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  9. Wishart and others in the SNP are in no hurry to fight for our independence. They are terrified to break Westminster's anti-Scottish rule book. British nationalists in Westminster know this and treat Scotland accordingly. There are no signs of Westminster or the SNP changing their ways.

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  10. A WGD numpty, Clydebuilt, gets it right (not that unusual you know) by calling out Spowage the newly parachuted in head of the Britnat Fraser of Allander Institute for not mentioning Brexit in her economic analysis of what ails the UK. Spowage has clearly been installed as someone they can trust to 100% follow the British state line. I have lost count of the number of times she has popped up in the Britnat media to rubbish the economic case for Scottish independence by talking rubbish. Some people actually think this institute is independent free thinkers. Aye right. Others in it were/are pals of the Alexanders of Labour fame/infamy.

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  11. Is nawbag a good word for nawbags/fake yes snp

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  12. As far as I'm concerned the "Rev" lost the plot years ago, to the extent that it looked like he had become a Union supporter.

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  13. The compliments for me are just never ending. The Bathtub Admiral says he finds me quite funny. Many thanks for that yesindyref2. You also say you need counselling. I couldn't agree more - you have a very unhealthy obsession with weapons of war - although you should have seen someone before now I am sure it is still not too late. Sell some of your toy battleships and get help.

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    1. It's looking like the Bathtub Admiral is beyond help. He now seems to have a delusion that his toy battleships are real. Poor man.

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  14. I don't normally disagree with you, but:

    "What was it he did that was supposedly so "treasonable", you may wonder? It was simply that when he wanted to become Speaker of the House of Commons, he was asked whether he would hypothetically vote against independence with his casting vote as Speaker if that was what convention demanded, and he said he would. That was just a statement of the bleedin' obvious - you can't take on an office without committing yourself to the duties of that office. Any SNP MP becoming Speaker would be required to give up their party affiliation and become neutral on all matters of political dispute, including independence. "

    Here we have an SNP MP, who was elected to achieve independence for Scotland, down in London, campaigning to become an integral part of the British state, which he is supposed to be trying to end. To achieve the thing he wanted to achieve (becoming Speaker), he would have had to give up on any support for independence, the thing he was elected to do.

    Isn't that pretty much the dictionary definition of a traitor? I'd have absolutely no hesitation in calling him a traitor.

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    1. At the risk of the Bathtub Admiral saying I am sucking up to you James this anonymous post is exactly what you will NOT get on WGD and WOS. Namely, the publication of an opinion differing from the blog owners own stated opinion. In my eyes you stand taller than either of the other two just for this reason alone.

      Ps well said anonymous - better expressed than my post.

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  15. Rev Campbell's vendettas are insane and tiresome. Fine with me if someone stands up to him.

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  16. Anyone who doesn't think much of Matt Hancock may be interested in tuning in to Piers Morgans show on Talktv on Tuesday as it comes from Hancocks local in his Constituency called the Cock Inn. Yep that's right it's called the Cock Inn and it will feature, no doubt, angry constituents of the MP who made such a cock up of the pandemic. Or you could just watch him being slimed on ITV.
    It has been said, allegedly, that he gave a PPE contract to his friend who was the owner of the Cock Inn in the Cock Inn. His pal has sold the Cock Inn and is now probably in the Bahamas, allegedly, living off the proceeds of the contract. Is it any wonder I describe the UK as a shithouse run by shitty politicians. Meanwhile in the background the great Scottish independence leader lets you know her thoughts on her book of the week.

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  17. I sometimes find it difficult to follow the disputes on your site between bloggers, but what you say about Wings and 'traitor' is clear and correct. Dictionaries consistently say that 'traitor' has two meanings, a person who commits the crime of treason against the state, and a person who commits the far less serious offence of being disloyal to friends or colleagues. Google Ngrams tell us that 'traitor' is used eleven times more frequently than any of its synonyms, 'treason' hardly at all, and 'treachery' - the far less serious description - about as often as 'traitor'.

    Wings has successfully muddied the waters here, and bloggers like him who ignore the clear evidence of hard data are a disgrace to the independence movement, and should shut up shop.

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    1. The Rev will eventually be rewarded for his services to the British state.

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    2. The SNP are currently being rewarded for its services to the British State - its called Westminster short money. Anonymous your comment is your opinion - a forecast - my comment is an actuality.

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    3. The only person working for the British state has her/its feet under the table at Bute House. You sound like a deranged refugee from the Dughoose.

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  18. Asking for a friend - just where are we on the SNP's 11point master plan for Scottish independence presented by the SNP's President Mike Russell? Surely SNP members get regular updates and can provide an update to non SNP members who read this blog.

    Or has it been ripped up and quietly chucked on the floor of Russell's horsebox? If so where is the new replacement plan documented? Is this the standard of professionalism you are happy with from the SNP regarding what is supposed to be their number one priority?
    All these MPs, MSPs, SPADS, paid SNP staff - is that it? Yet numpties say we should take them seriously. That they want independence. Oh sorry forgot about the 3 papers produced by the civil servants. That's all right then🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕. Let's get on with the important thing of convincing the people of Scotland that you can change your biological sex.

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  19. Maybe you're a traitor if you wear a scarf in the Suffragette colours in Holyrood?

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    1. Sick sick sick sick of the SNP and Sturgeon and all this crap. You got votes to make Scotland free not impose all this nonsense on us. The SNP trashed the reputation of the Scottish Parliament with the Inquiry into Sturgeon's persecution of Salmond. Now it is turning into a visitor attraction called Wokeland.

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    2. Shame that the Scottish electorate disagree with ye !

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    3. An anonymous numpty thinks they are smart but they cannae even post a comment that is clear. Who are you referrring to? Is it me or the original anonymous. Are you saying the Scottish electorate voted for people to be expelled from the parliament for wearing a scarf? I've got news for you they didn't. Are you saying people didn't vote for Scottish independence. I've got news for you they did. Are you saying people voted for trans self I'd and for sex offenders to be let in to women's prisons if they self I'd as a woman? I've got news for you they didn't.

      Anonymous you haven't got a clue and are just a right numpty. Try writing 100 times - I am a numpty and I must do better.

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  20. Stu Campbell says he isn't coming back. Thank God. It's about time he stuck to video games and left the rest to the grown-ups.

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