Just another quick update for the people who contributed to the crowdfunder for this blog's forthcoming poll on independence. The fieldwork has now been completed, and I've been given a tentative indication of the likely result on the main question. But I'm not going to drop any hints at all, because it's provisional and may change. I should have the full results by Monday at the latest, and then I'll probably drip-feed them to you over a few days.
Meanwhile, I have an article in today's edition of The National expressing my scepticism about the ultra-cautious approach set out by Nicola Sturgeon yesterday. You can read it HERE.
We could get torn to shreds if we go for an early referendum not knowing what the England-EU trade deal looks like - too many unknowns.
ReplyDeleteI was disappointed yesterday, but only because I'd let here say build up my expectations.
*hearsay
DeleteBetter not to try, at least then you can pretend to be wining. Better to crawl away when either Theresa or Boris say "Booo".
DeleteSeems a bit pointless now tbh. Why not spend it on a nice holiday instead?
ReplyDeleteGo to Barcelona and pretend it's an independence fact finding trip or something like the SNP used to do.
Did you chip in or are you just freeloading off the backs of others like England does (hence no Section 30)?
DeleteLol no only mugs donate to nationalist fundraisers.
DeleteA subsidy junkie unionist then. Get off your erse and pay your own way instead of freeloading off the backs of others.
DeleteI don't need a crowdfunded poll to know that nobody will be voting for Scottish independence for the foreseeable future.
DeleteYou are on here posting but you don't chip in. Your are a lazy freeloader like all those in England against a Section 30. Go get a job and pay your own way in life instead of expecting others to cough up for you.
Delete"I don't need a crowdfunded poll to know that nobody will be voting for Scottish independence for the foreseeable future."
DeleteApart from the 51% who told YouGov last week that they would, you mean?
From the School common room to the office at work, it's 58% Yes on average according to yougov.
DeleteIt's a great feeling to know that 6/10 are shoulder to shoulder with you now as you go about your daily business.
It's the future of Scotland.
Barcelona?
DeleteLast year , ah joined a support group for anti social people in govan. We`ve still no met up.
Hullo, GWC
DeleteUnionism is dead. Johnson and the English nationalist have killed it. It passed away last night at 23:00.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51340598
Unison backs call for second independence referendum
Scotland's largest trade union has backed calls for a second independence referendum.
A meeting of Unison's Scottish council has voted in favour of indyref2 at a time to be determined by the Scottish Parliament.
The motion voted on calls for the powers to hold a vote to be transferred to Holyrood from Westminster...
Civic Scotland is rising.
Unison you say? Well it's in the bag then with labour having just won the general election lmao
DeleteAway and get job you lazy ersed freeloader.
DeleteUnison Scottish members alone would have made up ~60% of the 2014 votes needed to have completely swung the result to Yes. It's a big union.
DeleteBut that's not the point I was making. My point was much more fundamental.
Unison is Scottish Labour as you say, and that's ~20% of the electorate.
In due course we shall watch Labour split and a new pro-indy Labour party emerge. Similar may even happen with some libs and Tories. All part of the final end of the UK in Scotland.
Once it goes cross party like that, it's all over, for an indy Scotland would then have the full spectrum.
This may also make Scottish Labour Party get some sense and do the same.This can only increase indyref2. numbers
DeleteDUP looking a bit upset and betrayed by Westminter. Reality now sinking in.Westminster dont give a f**k about NI.
ReplyDeleteOr Scotland. Or Wales.
DeleteOnly England.
About loyalists' opinions on Boris Johnson and etc.
DeleteLoyalists on Brexit: ‘A one-way route to an economic united Ireland’
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/loyalists-on-brexit-a-one-way-route-to-an-economic-united-ireland-1.4155385
Hahahaha hahahaha. Hahahaha. Haha. Hahahaha hahaha.
DeleteI was happy to add my own small contribution to this effort, but my ongoing expectation is that the main question will merely produce another insignificant random dither about the 50:50 mark. For exactly the reasons you yourself have given these last couple of days, James.
ReplyDeleteAnd so will it likely continue until the SNP leadership begin to lead from the front for once instead of continually hanging back fearfully in the rear.
I see that Macron has wrote a long post about the friendship that England* and France share:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/EmmanuelMacron/posts/2662040360695200
Dear British friends, you are leaving the European Union but you are not leaving Europe. Nor are you becoming detached from France or the friendship of its people. The Channel has never managed to separate our destinies; Brexit will not do so, either.
At 11.00 p.m. last night we did not say “goodbye”, but an early “good morning”.
------------------
* Posters on this blog have repeatedly told us that when other countries say Britain they mean England only, so obviously this post does not relate to Scotland - I'm sure he has not ignored Scotland purposely that would make him a racist fascist according to some....
Hey subsidy junkie freeloader. Taking our money again you lazy shite.
DeleteIt's the english that voted for brexit. The British voted remain.
https://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Q30-by-LR.jpg
Macron knows that.
"And I am thinking, today, of the millions of Britons – from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland"
DeleteIt's nice that he's done what I always said. Europeans see us as 4 peoples / countries / nations, not as one, and he's not forgotten to make sure we know that.
Mind you, with the 6 nations kicking off, how could people forget.
Macron can see that a United Ireland and an Independent Scotland is on the cards. So it is no mistake nor a racist comment to refer only to england as it will be outside the EU.
DeletePoor Scot/Irish clinging on with hope that the Virgin will do a miracle for them. Sorry chaps but the Law is clear and well written in Parliament. You can pray to all your saints but we are out of the EU and Scotland remains in the UK Union forever. So stick your Ulster Fry and all butter Tartan shortbread up yer behookies.
ReplyDeletesmell yer maw GWC. The adults are talkin.
DeleteThe Govan Team were wankers we gave them a tankin and shagged their burds doon the Glesga Green at the Carnie.
DeleteCould you explain exactly which law you are talking about?
DeleteWhich law prevents Scotland having a referendum?
Where is it written?
In which court would the trial of those accused of breaking this law be held?
What are the sentencing guidelines for anyone convicted of breaking this law and what are the possible tariffs?
@ brigton.
DeleteNaw ye didne ya dafty. Youse were known as the brigton baldy half inch stauners doon the glesga green and yer birds had seen mair helmets than adolf hitler.
The white protestant englishmen in denial fighting against their ain people.Lower than the low.
Hey GWC whit dis yer name stand fur....Good wae children?
ReplyDeleteGWC , maryhills maist famous stoat the baw.Back oot on parole and live wae an ipad.
Is that you went aw shy GWC?
ReplyDeletecome oan , tell us aw how you voted brexit? Wis it because the albanians were eatin aw the swans in elderpark?
It certainly wisnae cause ye wanted bendy bananas......yoov never et a bit a fruit in yer life ya pish stained dout picker.
There was a pencil in the polling booth and I used it to put an X at leave on the ballot paper. There were two choices and I forgot my reading glasses.
Delete@GWC
DeleteA pencil? have they banned ye faw yaysin crayons cause ye always eat them?
The Unison point is important. You can tell just from the way this blog's resident idiots immediately lapse into vacuous abuse as their best response to it.
ReplyDeleteAs someone said above - 'when it (indy) goes cross party it's all over'. That and the EU position on Gibralter have made my day. Despite racist Brexit - ye can stuff yer union ...!
Unison are a trade union who are supposed to represent their members in the workplace. I am not aware of any Union that actually carried out a genuine ballot of their members on Brexit. If any Union did it would be interesting to know how many voted!
DeleteEngland has set itself up as a rival to all EU members. It is making their citizens apply to stay in their own homes, sometimes after decades of living in the UK, on threat of deportation. Next will come threats to jobs across the UK/EU as the desperate English nationalist do a Trump with trade tariffs.
DeleteAs of last night at 23:00, England has zero allies. Not even the ulster unionists.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-trade-talks-eu-to-back-spain-over-gibraltar-claims
Brexit trade talks: EU to back Spain over Gibraltar claims
Territory’s economy at risk unless UK reaches agreement with Madrid over ownership
The EU will back Spain over its territorial claims to Gibraltar in the next phase of Brexit negotiations by giving Madrid the power to exclude the British overseas territory from any trade deal struck with Brussels.
Part of the problem stems from England trying to force its brexit on other (formerly) EU countries / nations, including Gibraltar, Northern Ireland, Scotland...
As Macron said in his Facebook post, many British nations / countries voted remain, including the Scots, N. Irish and Gibraltar.
Europe understands very well that it was not a 'British' decision.
Strange comment Skier, if you have a ballot in 'British nations' (your words) then the result is a British result. Gibralter is more British than England and the strategic entry to the Med where the German and Italians sank ships during WW2.
DeleteThe problem is that England has tried to appropriate Britishness. That is destroying it in the other nations. If British was one nation one vote, I doubt we'd be watching the UK disintegrate.
DeleteAs I said the other night GWC, I used to be Scottish & British, but the unionists attacked the former in me so much that they destroyed the latter. Relentlessly beat the British out of me for decades. Johnson crushed the last grain of britishness in me with the 'no Section 30'.
The only way you can make people truly British is to let them freely choose that.
Gibraltar was 96% Remain. Yet England didn't give a f**k.
If you can't understand that, then you'll never understand how you lost the union you love.
Still waiting for that support to come rushing in for Scotland its EU Friends. After all if Ireland has already said its going to fight for NI, Spain for Gibraltar whos fighting for Scotland...must be someone or is it still a bit too soon for them to show their hand (like the sports players).
DeleteSoon see, when England sells out Scotland's fishing waters for a deal i'm sure all Scotlands EU Friends will insist on the Scottish Parliment consenting or there will be no deal.
Nicola screwed the nationalists yesterday, but that was only the starter, just wait till your EU friends start calving up Scotland's resources.
This is in or out of the UK union of course. Even if Scotland did get independence the EU would insist that EU countries had full access to Scottish waters or they would block Scotland's admittance.
Skier, you are entitled to dream.
DeleteSome people don't seem to get the difference between England negotiating away Scotland's fishing waters (including plundering these for themselves because they're subsidy junkies) to get themselves a better deal for England, and an independent Scottish government coming to a deal on fishing rights with other states for the benefit of Scotland.
DeleteVoters of course, completely understand the difference. An Englishman stealing something from a Scot's pocket to sell to someone else and keep the cash is quite different to a Scot selling it themselves and keeping the proceeds.
And of course fishing is devolved, but the freeloading English have overturned the 1997 referendums to take back control of this so they can get another subsidy junkie hit. Scroungers that they are.
They'll never survive brexit because they are too used to living off the backs of others. Hence terrified of a section 30.
You don't seem to get that the EU doesn't care either way if Scotland rejoins the EU. As Tusk said they would not have any major feelings against it and would feel empathetic towards saying yes, but no one can claim they will automatically say yes.
DeleteEither way they will get what they want from Scotland either as part of the deal or as a condition of Scotland joining the EU.
But there is going to be no overt campaigning for indy Scotland from EU leaders /the EU. Thats why they are frantically denying that the little light display a couple of days ago (that you got all excited about as a display of solidarity from the EU) had nothing do to with the EU.
I think you are clever enough to realise this and feel a bit betrayed and let down by the EU especially EU states are making a big fuss about NI & Gibraltar but nothing about the other remain voting country Scotland.
Hence why all you have left is running around calling people you don't agree with scroungers and Nazis ;)
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSeems someone's a little upset with Tusk this morning!
DeleteI don't want EU countries interfering in Scottish domestic politics any more than I want subsidy junkie racist England doing that. This should be blindingly obvious.
It's none of the EU's business how Scots vote in iref2, or on the matter of EU vs EFTA etc. They should stay well out of it, not taking a side.
If the EU had interfered in the EUref the way England is interfering in Scottish politics, I'd have voted leave.
You are just dumb as fuck so can't understand even the most basic concepts.
Tusk said exactly what I wanted to hear, i.e. Europe loves Scotland would love it as a member, but it's up to Scots to make that decision and process will have all the usual legal steps etc to go through, as would be expected.
If the EU were campaigning for Scotland to join I’d be furious. They’d be doing an England and damaging support for being in the EU in the same way Johnson is damaging UK unionism.
The last thing the independence cause needs is a European Johnson sticking his nose in and sending voters to the ‘Scexit / Scooter’ side.
The EU isn’t making any fuss over Gibraltar at all. It's making a fuss over Spain. Same for Northern Ireland; it's backing member Ireland.
Why would I be rattled by Tusk? Do you get rattled by Gordon Brown when unionist roll him out to talk about Federalism?
DeleteWhen people who have been high positions of political power for that power any become just normal citizens they have to say stuff that gets them noticed again when they do get interviewed. Makes them feel important again. Of course it means nothing they have no power.
Its been nationlists telling me for months and months that once the UK leaves the EU that the EU/EU leaders would be queing up to show solidarity for Scotland, I'm just asking when that would happen. Are yessers people i can trust or are they just like Brexiters and lie about anything.
Sur la Continent as Union flags are being taken down outside public buildings, in Holland they are being replaced by Saltires in a symbol of solidarity with Scotland, more to follow I think
ReplyDeleteAre you saying the Dutch actually had the butchers aprons hanging in public buildings? Maybe we should not have invaded Normandy and left them to the Germans. There would be no Anne Frank's House to visit. That would really suit the Scottish Nat zis.
Delete@ GWC
DeleteHere we go , get the dambusters theme on for how england saved the world in the second world war.
You didnae invade nae where in the second world war , the americans held yer hands and took ye under their wing and the russians kept the germans busy in the east.
Feckin hell , scotgoespop s very own uncle albert "during the war".
Blair McDougall - august 2014
ReplyDelete'Boris Johnson is a clown.....I can't imagine a serious political party would elect him as a leader'
(GWC 9:09) Clearly one of multitude of things that you don't comprehend is how trades unions work.
ReplyDeleteThe apparatchiks are very cautious to preserve their committe seats, time off work and/or, union paid, salaries. They don't do anything at all bold unless they are confident that they are not jeopardising their positions - ergo they know or suspect that the ground is shifting under them. Ballots come (much) later on such things.
Actually I was a shop steward for years and a delegate to Glasgow Trades Council. TGWU. You Scottish NAT SIS have no affiliation with the trade union movement. You are Tartan Tories.
DeleteThe trade unions who kept their members living in poverty by opposing devolution in 79 and hiding the McCrone report? Those unions?
DeleteThe unions who went on strike for 20-30% pay rises dutin the 1970s while I had to come home from school to a candlelit house because a gang of communists had shut down the power again?
Those trades unions who support Trident and the labour party which invaded Iraq?
Of course you are a member of that gang of pink-tinged nazis.
In an independent Scotland membership of a trades union should carry the death penalty.
We could not afford candles in our tenement we had to light fires using the dead after emptying their pockets.
DeleteSomeone's a wee bittie upset at the unison news.
DeleteReally puts a smile on my face.
'membership of a trades union should carry the death penalty'.
DeleteI understand the last person to put this into law in Europe was Hitler. He didn't let folk freely vote / have a section 30 either.
GWC "We could not afford candles in our tenement we had to light fires using the dead after emptying their pockets. "
DeleteWhit! You are well known thoughout glesga for sniffing skiddy panties on washin lines .
Honestly GWC yer wee maw senga would be turnin in her grave readin the cac you post on this site.
Dae ye still want to be an englishman when ye grow up?
JK why are you bothering to communicate with naebd. He is a troll. I've seen him arguing against independence and the ability of Scotland to even pay pensions and use Yoon tropes with not a drop of satire intended. Not to be trusted.
ReplyDeleteOh I think he's sincerely in favour of independence in theory. Not so much in practice. If memory serves me right he thought the first indyref should never have been called. His position is "we might have a 0.1% chance of independence in around a century, so for Christ's sake let's not screw it up by actually doing anything right now".
DeleteDo not trust in christ young James. The white protestant population is increasing in Scotland. And with Boris having years in power you need to move over to the Blue Tories.
DeleteThe indigenous population of Scotland re birth rate is falling not rising, without immigration by 2035 pensioners will outnumber the working age population and the last thing Scotland needs is yet more sick elderly English people settling in Scotland because the healthcare system is better at the moment, because it won't be by then, the Scottish borders and our Islands are becoming clogged up with diabetic English pensioners
ReplyDeleteIf that is the case then we need to send the English back ASAP and raise the pensionable age for Scots to 75. Get rid of the bus pass and free prescriptions and let the oldies die on the job.
DeleteBBC report that Donald Tusk said he feels empathy and emotion towards Scotland and that the EU would enthusiastically welcome an Independent Scotland
ReplyDeleteNow that the documents have been signed for UK withdrawal the EU is free to speak it's opinion on the UK and Scotland's position
If you have a look at Polish politics, Poland might be the next country to leave the EU. The very right-wing, Euro-sceptic Law & Justice Party looks pretty unstoppable.
DeleteTusk represents the Euro Council (that doesn't have legislative initiative), the EU parliament also doesn't have legislative initiative. EU legislative initiative lies with the European Commission (the civil service). I hope that makes more sense to you than it does to me.
Scotland will not be admitted automatically because it's "awfie nice".
DeleteWouldn't it be best if the SNP took their EU Magic Carpet out of their (apparently cashless) vaults and publicly burnt it? Then we could all move on.
Failing that, Ms Sturgeon could formally change the organisation's name to the Regional Party. So again, we'd know what to do.
If right-wing extremists take power in EU countries, such as happened in England, it is better that these leave the EU obviously, so I'm not sure what your point is?
DeleteMy support for Independence in the EU has increased now hard right racist England isn't a member for example.
'Failing that, Ms Sturgeon could formally change the organisation's name to the Regional Party'.
DeleteYou mean like Scotland is a 'region' of the UK rather than a sovereign state member, free to leave if it pleases, as is the case for EU member states?
It's also worth noting that, as businesses leave e.g. the UK and move to the bigger market that is the EU, this will boost the EU economy.
DeleteSo right wing extremist countries exiting is great for the EU. Makes it more moderate centre to left, and boosts the economy, while the nutter right states leave and go down the pan.
"...if something like, you know, the independence of Scotland happens then we need a regular new process. There is no automaticity [sic]. New situation, new country. Then it means a new process.”
Delete(The Donald)
So we should work from that. Currency and EEA/EFTA need sorted first.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51342714
ReplyDelete'Empathy' for independent Scotland joining the EU says Tusk
Former European Council president Donald Tusk says Brussels feels "empathy" towards an independent Scotland joining the European Union.
Nicola Sturgeon has said an independent Scotland would seek full EU membership.
When asked if this would be looked upon favourably, Mr Tusk said, "emotionally I have no doubt that everyone will be enthusiastic"...
...Mr Tusk's comments come after his predecessor, Herman Van Rompuy, last year said he believes Brexit has changed EU attitudes to Scottish independence...
...Mr Tusk, who served as European Council president for five years until November last year, was speaking in a BBC interview to be aired on The Andrew Marr Show.
When asked about the prospect of an independent Scotland joining the EU, the Polish politician said "I want to stop myself from saying something too blunt".
He said that he feels "very Scottish, especially after Brexit".
This is about as open as you can get while still fully respecting non-intervention in Scottish domestic political debates.
I read the BBC article first, but then watched the actual interview. He's a man who speaks carefully, but his actual tone is far more enthusiastic than the article would suggest.
Delete>When asked about the prospect of an independent Scotland joining the EU, the Polish politician said "I want to stop myself from saying something too blunt".
DeleteSounds pretty enthusiastic to me. :-)
Raab of course has now called his comments 'un-European' lol.
This level of enthusiasm this soon, plus the Europe/Scotland lighting, is a bit surprising. I would have thought they wouldn't want to risk damaging trade negotiations, and tbh I sort of assumed nobody there really GAF about us.
A brief note to inform my readers that I am but recently returned from the Peenemunde Harpsichord Festival where I had the enthralling experience of hearing several of Buxtehude's pieces adapted. Enchanting. However, people who are not really musical have little idea of the very real, very searing physical pain they inflict through the imperfect renditions of the works of the masters. I shall appraise my readers of the event in the near future after given it my measured consideration from afar.
ReplyDeleteHaha, you do that.
DeleteThank you. I lunched with Countess Puchowska (whose family lost their estates in Pomerania whilst retaining the title albeit unofficially until more recent times) in a delightful dining room on the nearby island of Hiddensee. Such tales as she shared with the company. Ah... Mais où sont les neiges d'antan?
DeleteAn independent Scotland couldn't join the EU without its own currency.
ReplyDeleteGood luck selling a devalued Scottish currency to people with mortgages in sterling.
The devaluation of the £Scots was due to brexit. Everyone knows this. It's part of the reason Yes is in majority.
DeleteWe can expect further large devaluations going forward.
If I had been paid in Euros, I wouldn't have lost out due to the brexit devaluation, and would be earning a much better salary now.
DeleteA 20% £ devaluation due to brexit, and of course the fabled export boom never occurred.
DeleteUK balance of payments continues to plunge into the red since brexit.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments
All that happened is we all got up to 20% poorer.
There is no £scots.
DeleteAnd you're missing the point. Scots would be paid in £scots, but owe money in £.
No, that's not how it would work. It's like how you think Poland is leaving the EU on a 94% remain vote. You live in a fantasy world.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1223680466135527430
However, I would rather be earning e.g. Euros and paying a mortgage in £s. I'd be 20% better off rather than the other way around thanks to brexit.
Out of interest, the notes in my wallet say 'Scotland' on them.
DeleteIf, as you say, these are not Scottish, but a truly British currency, why are they turned down in England?
Racism?
I don't think Poland is leaving the EU. Why would they? They're the single largest net beneficiary of EU funding.
DeleteFor Scotland to join the EU it needs it own currency then to transition to the euro. That's the terms of accession.
Some people aren't familiar with sterling printed in Scotland. It might be xenophobia if the same people have notes turned down when they present ones printed in England.
DeleteBut as Scots isn't a race it's hardly racism.
When it is introduced shortly after Independence then I very much doubt that the S£ will fall against sterling. In fact it is almost certain to tend to rise and the job of the Scottish Reserve Bank will be to make sure it only rises slowly. Where folk have a mortgage, loan, etc from a bank registered in Scotland then that will automatically convert to being in S£ so there will be no exchange rate risk. The problem only arises for folk where the lender is not Scottish, e.g. Nationwide or Santander. In those cases if those banks wish to continue to operate in Scotland they will have to set up a Scottish registered operating company and agree that the loans are redenominated into S£. If they don't then they would have to cease operating in Scotland, so I don't think there will be too much effort needed to persuade them to change everything across to S£. So most folk are not going to be exposed to an exchange rate risk. See www.reservebank.scot for more info.
DeleteGood Morning Scottish skier. You had a great post a while back on the total annual tax receipts for Scotland that is given to westminster and how much little we get back and also the % taken out of that budget to pay for schemes in England like HS2 etc. Any chance you could give us some figures for recent years. We have to start couteracting the claim that Scotland cannot financially be independant
ReplyDeleteI likely just borrowed the specific link from someone else, so I'm not sure exactly which one you are talking about.
DeleteHowever, no Section 30 is because England is financially dependent on Scotland. If it was not, we would have our Section 30. This is just common sense that everyone understands.
England is a subsidy junkie, hence fears Scottish indy, hence no Section 30.
Oh, and the latest polling shows a majority for Yes, so it's technically unionists / England that need counteract the claim that the UK isn't financially viable.
DeleteI take your general point though. The more the merrier for indy!
The south east of England and London subsidises much of the UK.
DeleteFor your argument to be sound you'd expect that region to be agitating for independence. But it isn't and they're not.
No, England is subsidised by Scotland. Hence no Section 30. This is obvious to everyone now.
DeleteScots want to stand on their own two feet but England is stopping that because it's too scared to do the same. It can't cope without Scottish subsidies, hence no Section 30.
DeleteHere's it in nice easy graphics.
DeleteWho earns the money (oil excluded):
https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/economy/grossvalueaddedgva/bulletins/regionalgrossvalueaddedincomeapproach/2014-12-10/7e030bad.png
And the areas subsidised using it:
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/5823.jpeg
Have the Naz sis got a firm plan for replacing all the jobs at Faslane and other Mod locations. By firm I mean real jobs and not the past Eck verbal diahorea.
ReplyDeleteHere we go , GWC digs up the billions of jobs at faslane that are apparently going to be lost when his precious yookay ends.
DeleteBillions of jobs i tell ye , it wid be unbearable.
Theres only 7 billion people in the entire wurld , but if scotland goes indy , we will lose 100 billion jobs at faslane and no be able to be cannon fodder in englands wars anymair.
Stope it GWC a cannae take it anymair.
Send down 30 feet of rope. Danny's going later.
DeleteWhat will replace the £? Will it be a Scottish Naz si bank or the euro making us dependent on foreigners? Answers on a ten bob note.
ReplyDeleteTusk is trending, his message going all over Europe, Scotland will be enthusiastically welcomed to EU. With due legal-constitutional caveats.
ReplyDeleteThis could be the propaganda prize that Nicola Sturgeon gained from talking all legal-constitutional the other day. Not least in the media reception it is getting, which seems in the main sympathetic except where it's annoying all the right people.
While at the time I felt the Friday speech was a missed opportunity, if it's backed by action and traction in EU circles it could be worth it.
Whatever you think of the EU (relative to other options) recognition by our European neighbours is crucial. A saltire round the table in Brussels and Strasbourg is a powerful symbol of statehood now, even if you would like to be out of the EU ultimately.
I thought at first FM's speach was also a missed opportunity. I now feel it was very measured and statesman like.To add to above post, her reaching out to those not yet convinced of Indyref2 and is willing to listen is paying dividends.With Unison now on board it is only time before SLP either splits or en mass becomes does the same.We could well have the broader coalition she is looking for by mid summer. By then we should have an idea how the trade negotiations are going.So for now i feel people should give her some space and time and we may still see indyref2 late summer
DeleteAlthough Tusk is no longer in a position of power, his intervention seems powerfully symbolic, especially after the other ex head honcho Barroso in 2014. In 2014 we were very exposed, the referendum in a sense came too quickly, without a European hinterland, and of course EU couldn't bee seen to interfere while UK a member. But that has changed utterly, obviously.
DeleteAlso, while his words may be just personal, they could the the tip of a much larger iceberg, and one not too soon in coming.
It fuels the sense that we are at a tipping point. If enough people inside and outside Scotland start to believe that independence is not only possible and understandable but inevitable, the better chance of overcoming inertia and media hostility (and No Borders style fakery). Once people see which way things are going, and which side of history they want to be on, it will be easier to convince the neutrals.
The train have left the station, and Sturgeon is still trying to get on it. No one is going to give you independence, you have to have the guts to take it.
DeleteSure. Scots can't be like the English subsidy junkies who are too scared to stand on their own two feet.
DeleteIn reply to "No one is going to give you independence, you have to have the guts to take it."
DeleteThat's partly true. But it's the international community who "gives" recognition to independence. No point in declaring freedom for Tooting or Stoneybridge if no one recognises it. Similarly, Catalonia voted yes to "take" independence for themselves, but no one considers them independent.
I think the SNP leadership could do more to make connections with EU and UN, to discuss the terms of what they would recognise for independence (including, in the even to continued refusal by Westminster). Maybe they are behind closed doors though I don't recall ever hearing them talking to the UN, and I wonder why not.
Another thing I think we could do with is more of a creation of a public , non party political pro-indy body (a bit like Scotland in Union in reverse) that could speak on behalf of the wider movement, unconstrained by having to be diplomatic or defend a government record. They could be more bullish and combative, even more imaginative and speculative, while the Scottish Govt has to act carefully with respect to acting constitutionally and representing the country as a whole.
Just dropped in to see how people are arguing for or against this 'Scottish independence' business.
ReplyDeleteFor:
1. This 'Scotland' place is being ordered by its southern neighbour 'England' to leave this 'EU' organisation, which has been highly beneficial to Scotland's peace and prosperity and which it very much wants to stay in. But no, 'England' has told it it has to leave.
2. For many decades Scotland has kept getting not the governments it votes for but the ones England votes for. England keeps informing the Scottish population that how they vote in elections doesn't matter, while proclaiming itself one of the world's great 'democracies'.
Against:
1. Jobs will go at a "nuclear submarine base" near Scotland's largest city, a base placed there by England because it's too dangerous to have in England, and that many Scots want to see gone.
2. Scottish people have these things called mortgages and if Scotland becomes independent they will have to pay these off using Scottish currency rather than English currency.
3. "stick your Ulster Fry and all butter Tartan shortbread up yer behookies."
Thank you for the information. I will report this interesting data to my superiors.
We once had a similar situation in my home dimension, when a nearby dimension kept trying to tell us what to do. We sorted that out pretty fast, but then we had no equivalent of your 'GWC' and 'Anonymous' who seem to love being dominated by their neighbours.
Kiss goodbye from my many orifices, and remember: it all works out in the end.
x
Not outwith the bounds of possibility that Sinn Fein may have a full veto over Britain's brexit deal in a matter of days.
ReplyDeletehttps://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ireland-politics/sinn-fein-draw-level-atop-opinion-poll-days-from-irish-election-idUKKBN1ZV40O
Sinn Fein draw level atop opinion poll days from Irish election
DUBLIN (Reuters) - Irish nationalists Sinn Fein surged ahead of the governing Fine Gael party to draw level at the top of an opinion poll a week before an election that looks set to be a major breakthrough for the former political wing of the Irish Republican Army.
That would be pretty amusing if it came to pass.
Hope they do then a hard brexit. Send in the troops and depart from the Belfast Agreement and the 1923 arrangement.
DeleteWill you be joining the troops in Belfast, WC?
DeleteThought not.
GWC will be hiding in the sewers.
DeleteThe background mood music with Unison and Tusk both making positive noises in this post Brexit world is a marked change from 2014.
ReplyDeleteAlthough bemused rather than disappointed by the SNP strategy I can see merit in a gently gently approach if a groundswell is pushing inexorably towards Yes. It may be that this is beginning to happen and if it is we might have to be agile and quickly move to full campaign mode when the starting gun is fired.
Be prepared, be confident. This game has life yet.
Feeling a bit down after reading McWhirter in today's Herald he is advocating that there won't be an Independence referendum this year next year or for many years.
ReplyDeleteI actually don't see Westminster agreeing to a section 30 ever the higher Yes gets in the polls the less likely Westminster will agree to one .
If we want Independence at some point we are going to have to challenge Westminster s authority .
It doesn'took that the present leadership of the SNP have the balls to take them on.
I can understand the view that we might not be far enough ahead in the polls to go head to head with Westminster at the moment .Will the present SNP leadership ever consider the time is right to go for it.
History shows that Westminster never act reasonably and we can ask for Section 30s until the cows come home .
Sometimes you have to throw caution to the wind and be bold .
The Yes movement is crying out for leadership and direction the current leadership seem timid and impotent
Mc Whirter like all *journalists* writes what he's told to write by whichever paper pays him, there's a name for that and Scotland's full of them
DeleteThey should import them from Thailand where it's only Sucky F*cky five bucks
Plenty of Jock women swallow for less.
DeleteGWC. Yer mother works in mcdonalds.
DeleteMcW wrote his piece before Unison and Tusk's interventions. The game is changed. We'll probably see a very different article from him in next week's Herald.
DeleteYou could ask Gerry to send you some of the guns and semtex he allegedly handed in. Nothing better than Jock mugs fighting for something they will never own.
DeleteI wouldn't be disheartened by any article appearing in The Herald. It is probably designed to be disheartening!
DeleteI've seen a few Unionists also reacting to Nicola Sturgeon's speech as if she's thrown in the towel but I don't see that at all.
Any those are yesterday's news, and the day before. Today's news in Donald Tusk statement, that I think is very significant, compared with everything that went before. As airdforce 1 said, this is a game changer (not to mention Unison too)
It's very much 'Game On' as I see it.
As Stuart Campbell might say, "Yoons be raging!"
So, Scots say they want to stand on their own two feet and ask England to respect this.
ReplyDeleteEngland soils itself, burst into tears in terror at actually having to pay its own way in life, then screams and threatens Scotland like a great big spoilt wean.
And folk really think brexit will work? With such a bunch of pathetic, lazy little cowards in England running the UK?
How can any country respect England if it's too scared to stand on its own two feet?
Dublin pub notice on 31 January 2020 - "All Brits must be accompanied by a European after 11pm. Except Scots they're sound!!!"
ReplyDeleteThick Irish forgetting that the British Isles are part of Europe.
GWC will be buried on I.O.N.A.
DeleteHe has no end of executors.
England is still a cowardly country though, European or not.
DeleteWhy don't you tell me if we're gonna stay?
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you tell me who is going away?
Why don't you tell me what is going poop?
Why don't you tell me who is in the loop?
Tusk!
There is a pattern when you Nat sis are totally gubbed. You post continually and hint about UDI. But you are bottle merchants. Even the guy from Govan probably got rogered in his Peter at Barlinnie.
ReplyDeleteGWC Are you still posting fae yer cell up at fanny hill for stealing handbags aff auld grannies ya monster?
DeleteFrom the Guardian *British sovereignty over Gibraltar was formalised by the treaty of Utrecht in 1713 but Spain has always bristled at the idea of UK ownership.*
ReplyDeleteSpain was made an offer they couldnae refuse.
Just the same as us. And now the circle has turned. Great Stuff.
AnonymousFebruary 2, 2020 at 6:40 PM
James - you said in 2014 we would probbaly need to wait 10-15 years for another referendum. We will only get one more chance and we need to win it.
Don't be silly. Did GB after Dunkirk say, well that's oor chance gone there. We'd better just pack-in. Or Bruce, or did Lincoln after the first year.
"And now the circle has turned. Great Stuff"
DeleteRight now, Ireland as part of the EU dictating terms to UK.
Imagine a future Scotland in EU, part of EU bloc with veto power over rUK re-entering (but allowing it, no doubt, with grace).
Also today: angry British nationalists condemning Donald Tusk for interfering in a member state's internal affairs... oh wait, UK no longer a member state!
;-)
Boris Johnson is spending £5million on trying to convince Scotland not to be Independent
ReplyDeleteA bit odd seeing as how he said no no never for years and years and made up his British Nazionalist crap about *once in a generation* being a legal statement, now it seems the truth is out and he's losing his bottle, or should we say his boss the Fuhrer Dominic Cummings is losing his bottle because the EU just told them to go and fffk themselves
Johnson will be shouting *gunboat* and *cavalry* any minute now
Classic subsidy junkie England using Scots cash to pay for it too.
DeleteVote Tory for not being allowed to vote in iref2 whether the Tories win or lose!
DeleteWelcome to 'The People's Democratic Republic of the UKSSR'.
Boris played a blinder with the parogueing nonsense and forced the GE. I suspect Corbyn was in it with Boris. Corbyn Detested the EEC/EU.
DeleteSkier, Google the Evening Standard 1975 EEC referendum Cartoon.
Boris is a coward, just like England is right now.
DeleteGWC boris played a blinder? Are we watching the same politics? Boris played a blinder in losing 55% of his scottish seats wee ruth davidson won for him , won 95 % of his seats in englandshire , didnt win in northern ireland , and in wales 70% of their seats went to the opposition parties.
DeleteStep back fae the ipad , put the toilet duck doon , stope what you are smoking and sober up will ye?
The mans a bottle merchant , could be your twin intae the bargain sphincter boy.
James, it would be interesting to have the results weighted by 2014 and not so, just to see the influence. If that's at all possible (it should be easy, as it's just a spreadsheet formula).
ReplyDeleteI think it's stretching credulity to past vote weight to an event 6 years ago, particularly as we've had another major constitutional vote since, and loads of elections, with circumstances changing dramatically. This is likely to create false recall, as many polls show (Yes too high). That and the electorate is around 16% different now, making it increasingly nonsensical to weight in this way; it's not the same electorate any more.
While it's interesting still to ask 2014 vote, for me, 2019 election and 2016 referendum would be what you'd weight to at most.
On Bloomberg last night, on the side ticker.
ReplyDeletePoll in Denmark, not a great fan of the EU. Previously, that is.
Poll. If there was to be a ref. on it. 70% for staying in. Think it used to be around 50%. Pour encourage les autres.
Scotland played Ireland yesterday, and England played France today.
ReplyDeleteHow on earth can the likes of Raab go on the telly and talk about 'regional separatist movements' with any credulity? England is showing the world it's a pathetic, cowardly, subsidy junkie racist bully right now.
Scotland isn't a region. It's an ancient nation/country the same as France, hence playing in the e.g. 6 nations. Scotland and France even had an official alliance for centuries; one de Gaulle talked of fondly when he thanked the Scots for helping liberate France.
England told the world the union was completely voluntary just 6 years ago. Now it's saying that Scotland is in fact an English colony?
This looks really, really bad. Tusk was quite polite about the situation.
Anyone know of any other 'regional separatist' movements that have international sports teams like e.g. England has?
DeleteAnyone know if a regional separatist movement has won the world cup before?
DeleteAsking for a friend.
Tusk is surplus to requirement and an EU waster. We should have let the Soviets destroy his Nazi supporting country.
DeleteHe comes from a country which is brave, unlike England, which is a cowardly nation.
DeleteNo, one of the nearest I can come up with is Denmark, brought in to the Euros as a late replacement who went on to win it and who as a political backdrop, had refused to sign the Maastricht Treaty at the time. They won the Euro Nations cup that year.???
DeleteNext up would be the successes of Croatia, a former 'region' of Yugoslavia who got to World Cup final in 2018 and to the semi final stage some years before that and Serbia, another former 'region' of Yugoslavia, who won the under 20's World Cup in 2015.
"How on earth can the likes of Raab go on the telly and talk about 'regional separatist movements' with any credulity?"
DeleteIf people recognise "British Nationalism" it gives him credibility. The numpties in the audience will supply the credulity.
Get Britain out of the EEC rally 24 March 1975. Participants, Labour Party, Tory Party, Anarchists, Communist Party, Sinn Fein IRA, Orange Order, Welsh Nats, Maoists, National Front and now wait for it, wait again, hing in there, wee Jocks fae the North wearing their see you Jimmy bunnets the Scottish National Party. Well bugger me with a straight EU banana. Enoch Powell leading the rally.
ReplyDeleteAnd your point is? I wasn't even born in 1975.
DeleteIt is a historical point. Thought you would get that. Always have thought you are a bit thick on the uptake.
Delete