The bill is welcome, but it is no substitute for open debate within the SNP on the way forward. It might have been an adequate substitute if there had been a time limit attached to it - in other words a deadline for the UK government to agree to the transfer of powers for the bill to actually be passed, and a commitment that if the deadline wasn't met, the Scottish government would then say to voters "we have very clearly exhausted every single avenue for attempting to bring the UK government to the negotiating table, their rejection of democracy is definitive and permanent, we are therefore moving forward to using a scheduled election to seek an outright mandate for independence". There is overwhelming opinion poll evidence that the electorate will be receptive to that message if it is presented to them correctly.
But no deadline means no credible strategy for bringing an independence mandate about in actuality, or for bringing independence itself about, and therefore a vacuum now exists that only open debate within the SNP can fill. It shouldn't be forgotten that at last year's conference John Swinney staked a great deal of his personal authority on his ability to secure an outright SNP majority, which I always thought was practically impossible (a 1 in 200 chance was my estimate, which I'd suggest was borne out by the constituency results in May). But he said he would do it and use it to force the UK government to agree to a referendum. "Challenge accepted" he said in respect of the target of an overall majority, which means in brutal arithmetical terms you'd have to now say "challenge failed".
If a leader asks his party conference to give its backing to his preferred strategy on the basis that he will get it to work, and if it then fails, I don't think it's unreasonable for party members to expect that they will then get the opportunity to review what went wrong and to decide what new and more effective strategy will be put in its place. Given the circumstances, how can the leadership even begin to justify blocking that opportunity? I recall a great deal was made last year of the fact that strategy is the exclusive domain of the party leader, and that John Swinney should be commended for voluntarily consulting conference when he didn't actually have to. If the message is now going to be "the leader consulted conference once, but he didn't actually have to do that and he has no plans to do it again", I don't think I'll be the only person to see the parallels with the UK government saying "you'll have had your democracy in 2014".
How can SNP members make their views heard on using a scheduled election to bring about independence if the leadership are going to block all future debates and votes on the subject? Well, it's not easy, is it. The blocking is done via the Conferences Committee, which is a predominantly elected body, but it's elected by conference delegates rather than by the wider membership. In practice that means the selectorate contains a disproportionate number of what is sometimes referred to as "the payroll vote", ie. people who inevitably hold a particular loyalty to the leadership's stance. In an ideal world that system would be reformed to put members properly in charge, but in reality that's a non-starter because any reform proposal would have to get through the same gate-keeping machinery.
Ultimately the leader is an elected position, and is elected by all party members, so in theory the next leadership contest will offer an opportunity for members to take control of the situation and introduce a credible independence strategy. However, that big chance could be several years away, because John Swinney gives the impression of a man who is going nowhere. And in every other sense apart from independence strategy that's a very good thing, because now that Kate Forbes has departed the stage, Mr Swinney is undoubtedly the best leader we have available.
Remember also that when he was elected leader in 2024, there was no contest at all and therefore no debate. Considerable pressure was put on his only opponent (Graeme McCormick) to withdraw on the grounds that an election would have been too costly - which is always the worst and most indefensible excuse for avoiding democracy and democratic debate. The system has since been changed to make it even harder (much, much harder, in fact) for democratic leadership elections to be triggered. I would gently suggest that both of those factors severely weaken the leadership's moral position when they now refuse to "voluntarily" permit internal votes and decisions on strategy.
The National have quoted the former MP Stewart McDonald as effectively saying "what a pity we're not going to let you have a vote, because it would have been such fun to defeat your crazy de facto referendum idea which cannot possibly lead to independence" (that's a paraphrase, let me stress). Well, two points on that. Firstly, there are again unfortunate parallels with unionist politicians who ludicrously say things like "in a way it's a shame we're not going to let you have a referendum, because you would undoubtedly lose again". A good rule of thumb is that if you're confident in the popularity of your own position, you allow the vote, you don't block it. As for the idea that a de facto referendum won't directly lead to independence? Even if that's true, the uncomfortable truth for Mr McDonald is that would give it a great deal in common with the "let's pretty much do nothing instead" strategy that he seems to prefer. But the obvious sense in which the de facto referendum strategy *is* superior is that it can directly lead to an outright mandate for independence coming about, which Mr McDonald's strategy cannot. The weirdly visceral nature of the opposition to a de facto referendum in certain quarters strongly suggests to me that some people are actually frightened of living in a world in which there is an outright mandate for independence, and would actually prefer to live in a world where the 2014 mandate has not yet been overturned and is still providing the UK government with a veneer of democratic cover. That is not a psychological phenomenon that I can easily understand or explain.
Incidentally, Mr McDonald is also in the news today because he's come out in support of BBC Scotland's utterly random attack on Radio Sputnik's Edinburgh operation - which ceased to exist several years ago! Again, I struggle to understand those who believe that a defunct radio station that at its peak had an audience consisting of two men and a penguin is a bigger threat to Scottish democracy than the BBC itself, which pumped out blatant anti-independence propaganda and disinformation to millions of viewers and listeners in the run-up to referendum day in 2014. But each to his own, I suppose.
As always, I do want to finish by stressing that the SNP (and to a lesser extent the Greens) remain the only game in town for delivering independence. It may be hard to see the way forward at present, but if we are persistent enough a path will emerge. Don't give in to frustration and start listening to the siren voices of the Stuart Campbells of this world who want you to lash out and try to destroy our only vehicle for independence. It would be literally impossible to destroy the SNP anyway, and a civil war in our movement will just set the cause back decades.
* * *
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John has understood that independence will be won through disciplined, credible democratic politics, not by declaring an ordinary election a “de facto referendum” that Westminster, opponents and much of the public would never accept as constitutionally decisive.
ReplyDeleteNicola transformed the SNP into Scotland’s dominant political force and John has rightly prioritised rebuilding trust and broadening support.
DIsmissing that patient work as “doing nothing” confuses theatrical gestures with the much harder task of assembling a durable majority for independence. And on the conference issue, John is surely entitled to insist that SNP conferences serve the party’s agreed strategy, just as Nicola always did, rather than becoming platforms for repeatedly relitigating a de facto referendum proposal that members have already debated and the leadership has not adopted.
"DIsmissing that patient work as “doing nothing"..."
DeleteI'm sorry but that kind of sophistry just isn't going to wash. Immediately after Nicola Sturgeon "announced a referendum" in 2016, I said on this blog that the announcement was good as far as it went, but we needed to know what steps would be taken to back up that decision if London said no. That provoked a furious reaction in the comments section from an anonymous poster such as yourself who said "What is the matter with you, you beast! Just trust in the leader who has done so much for us." I would suggest what I said ten years ago has aged far better than the knee-jerk criticism of what I said. We have been chasing our tails for the last decade, and your comment amounts to advocacy for continuing to chase our tail for another decade.
In response to the deleted ill-mannered comment asking what my alternative strategy is, that is obviously a vexatious question, because I have spelled out what I think should happen almost ad nauseam in both blogposts and videos. Use a scheduled election to seek an outright mandate for independence, and if that mandate is secured, follow it up with parliamentary disruption tactics and/or a time-limited withdrawal of Scottish MPs from Westminster.
DeleteJames at 1.41am I agree. These people who ask what is YOUR plan then are unbelievable. Both you and I have said the same on SGP for years but back they come saying “ what is your plan then?” The first step is to get a democratic vote for independence. Westminster will never agree to a referendum. Burnham has recently told N. Ireland to take a hike. The answer is a de facto referendum - use an election.
Delete"It might have been an adequate substitute if there had been a time limit attached to it - in other words a deadline for the UK government to agree to the transfer of powers for the bill to actually be passed, and a commitment that if the deadline wasn't met, the Scottish government would then say to voters "we have very clearly exhausted every single avenue for attempting to bring the UK government to the negotiating table, their rejection of democracy is definitive and permanent, we are therefore moving forward to using a scheduled election to seek an outright mandate for independence"
ReplyDeleteYes, but that can and should still happen. What the UK Gov should now do is start and expedite that process to develop the Section 30 Order, or permanent transfer of powers with a changed Scotland Act.
The House of Commons next sits on the 1st September after the summer recess. What it should do is place that referendum change on the order of business. If it doesn't, Swinney must request (not demand yet) that it is. If it isn't, he moves to a demand, and if that doesn't work THEN an ultimatum like, indeed, the one you suggest - with a date that a response and action must be made by.
If that wasis Swinney's plan, there there is no real need for the SNP conference to have member suggested debates on Independence - that would come firmly from the leadership depending on status.
Timetable? I seem to remember Swinney saying something about this year - whether for the referendum itself or its date, I can't remember. So this should all happen within weeks.
Now THAT is a plan :-)
There is no such thing as permanently devolved power.
DeleteWestminster CANNOT transfer powers which supersede its own.
Westminster has no legitimate role in the exercise by the people of Scotland of our right of self-determination.
Every single avenue was exhausted a long time ago.
Meanwhile back in the real world ...
DeletePeter A Bell
Delete1st sentence correct.
2nd sentence correct.
3rd sentence correct
4th sentence incorrect - de facto referendum.
Yesindyref2 your reply to Mr Bell is poor.
Your “plan” outlined at 12.12pm is just wishful thinking rather than a plan.
As SGP says, after the ultimatum Swinney says: "we are therefore moving forward to using a scheduled election to seek an outright mandate for independence" or make it a de facto referendum.
DeleteOr he just goes for UDI in January, which he could democratically justify as long as he's taken every last step to let the UK show that it can respect self-determination for Scotland - and it's followed by a referendum to confirm Scotland's Independent status.
"wishful thinking" Well, duh! Wouldn't you wish it were true?
Anon at 11.56am why did Sturgeon/ Swinney call for a referendum from 2017 right through to SAVE THE DATE - remember that - 19/10/23 and then she called for a de facto referendum at the next UK GE if the strategy was all about “ patient work “. Let’s not forget good old Mike’s 11 point plan and his horsebox.
ReplyDeleteSo Sturgeon was in your mind so great, that “ John has rightly prioritised rebuilding trust “. Why did he have to rebuild trust then if Sturgeon was so great.
You have lost 75k members and languish in 30 - 39 % range share of votes down from nearly 50%. I’ll let you count the actual number of voters who said goodbye to the SNP. I’m sure Westminster is happy with what the SNP leadership have done over the last 12 years. It’s not that the SNP leadership are “ doing nothing “ it’s the opposite. They are trashing the SNP party and its brand as the party of independence.
The resident SGP Britnat KC says the same about a de facto referendum as you.
Sure you ain’t KC. He has form for kidding on he is an SNP/independence supporter.
What a pile of cow poop. Sober up, numbskull.
DeleteLimola = KC.
DeleteMay as well give up. You're all going to die as citizens of the UK. (And you're better off that way.)
ReplyDeleteThere is still good people working in the background to deliver on Indyref2.
DeleteIts time to except the SNP and its strategy isn't going to deliver for Scotland or Independence and for Indy supporter like yourself to work with others wither you get on or not.
ReplyDeleteYou've spoken at great lengths about a stragegy for Westminster it isn't going to happen.
Change in SNP leader isn't going to change anything we need a change of the party.
How many SNP conferences has the party denied a route to Independence, its become a joke and its us their laughing at.
Its; It's?
Deleteexcept; accept?
wither; whether?
A fair attempt given that your acquaintance with English seems to be tangential, at best.
Do try to keep up.