I was thinking of writing a blogpost tonight about the latest chapter in Stew's prolonged temper tantrum about the Crown Office and Police Scotland impertinently refusing to accept that he is their Overlord and that they must defer to instructions from him (he's called his latest article 'The Land Of Do-As-You-Please', but 'The Land In Which Stew Is Not Actually Il Duce' might have been more apt). But as I'm on a bit of a roll today with expressing some rather severe doubts about Salvo and Liberation Scotland, I thought I'd instead take a look at a long Twitter post from the latter, because I'm both struck and disturbed by how the language of the post echoes Reform UK rhetoric. Whereas Thomas "Shut That Door" Kerr wants to deport "strangers", Liberation Scotland and Salvo merely want to disenfranchise "incomers".
"The dumbfounding thing is, when the SNP-led Scottish government goes to Westminster to ask for a 'Section 30' order, it is apparently quite content to hold the same, warped, glorified opinion poll, open to the same British state inspired political, media and corporate propaganda, the same monarchic intervention, potentially the same last minute 'Vow'. And worst of all, the same totally inappropriate local authority franchise giving a vote on the Scots nation's future to anything up to a million incomers who would have no right to such a vote to elect a national government anywhere in the world, never mind one on a matter of such immense moment of a nation's exercise of self-determination."
That isn't just deeply offensive to many hundreds of thousands of people who are committed to Scotland and in many cases identify as New Scots, it's also factually inaccurate because there are in fact countries such as New Zealand in which even non-citizens are able to vote in national elections. But that isn't even what we're talking about here, because there is no such thing as a Scottish citizenship and there won't be this side of independence, and therefore most of the million people being referred to in fact share precisely the same citizenship as "Scots", however that term is being defined.
For those of you who genuinely want to strip voting rights from English people resident in Scotland in a future indyref, even if you don't accept that is morally wrong and undemocratic, I would at least ask you to ponder how tactically foolish it is. I know Salvo and Liberation Scotland don't accept this, but ultimately we will need UK government recognition for our independence, however grudging, and we won't get that by fiddling the franchise and cheating our way to a Yes majority. The franchise has to be seen to be fair otherwise the entire exercise is a waste of time. Furthermore, even if you're naive enough to believe you'd get away with fiddling the franchise for an indyref, we'll still need votes from these "incomers" in regular elections that occur before then, and telling people you're going to disenfranchise them is a rather unpromising way of asking for their support in an election.
And you know what? Some of you really won't want to hear this bit, but it's true: Alex Salmond had no truck whatever with the idea of removing the vote from English people in an indyref. When he phoned me up in the autumn of 2021 to "ask" me to stop disagreeing in public with Barrhead Boy about the subject, the point he repeatedly stressed was that I didn't actually need to have that argument, because Barrhead Boy quite simply wasn't going to get his way. "No party led by me will ever support anything other than a civic franchise" he told me, and that's pretty much a word-for-word quote. What he meant by a civic franchise was the same local government franchise that was used for the 2014 referendum.
I must say the pedantic hair-splitting about whether the 2014 referendum was a binding vote or a "glorified opinion poll" seems totally alien to me. As it was an agreed referendum, and as both governments publicly committed themselves in advance to implementing the result, it's stretching credibility somewhat to suggest a Yes vote would have had no effect. There were many things wrong with the 2014 vote, but its technically non-binding status was not one of them.
And no matter what terms a future referendum takes place under, I'm struggling to see how you're going to prevent propaganda from the British state or monarchy, or a repeat of "The Vow", unless you're actually going to ban the No side from campaigning or the media from reporting what they say.
* * *
This is Post 5 of "Seven Days of Retro Scot Goes Pop" - a shameless gimmick in which I attempt to solve this blog's funding problems in the space of a week with a conventional text-blogging marathon to help promote my Ko-Fi donations page, during which period pre-moderation in the comments section will be switched off. My target for the week is to either get up to 60 regular monthly supporters on Ko-Fi (as of now I have 21), or to reach £1500 in one-off donations to the page, or some sort of combination of a bit of both. In an equally shameless attempt to coax KC's stinking rich Tory landowner chums in Surrey into helping to fund Scot Goes Pop, I have pledged to try to leave pre-moderation switched off even after the seven days are over, but only if at least one of the targets is met in full. Yes, it's time to play hardball with our resident "Nessie" enthusiast.
If you might be interested in making either a small recurring monthly donation or a one-off donation, please check out my Ko-Fi page HERE.
Liberation Scotland are a complete irrelevance, as are the nutters who support them.
ReplyDeleteI certainly would not wish to live in an Independent Scotland where a massive 20% of its citizens had previously been totally deprived of any say on its constitutional future.
That would be a recipe for disaster for the cohesion of our new nation.
I also read Wings/Campbell's latest rant today.
Totally unbelievable how he still thinks that the opinion of his single chosen lawyer (irrespective of title) should hold sway over the entire Police/COPFS system.
I see he has, once again, stated that Scotland is basically unfit to be an independent country purely because its judicial system disagrees with his pathetic conspiracy-theory crap.
Campbell's ego is now as large as the humungous chip on Clerkin's shoulder.
They are both cut from the same lunatic cloth.
"I also read Wings/Campbell's latest rant today.
DeleteTotally unbelievable how he still thinks that the opinion of his single chosen lawyer (irrespective of title) should hold sway over the entire Police/COPFS system."
I dont agree with the guy's conclusions on independence but I would like to know
Who decided it was OK to use the referendum fund?
When was that decision made?
Are all those responsible for that decision now out of the party,
All it would take is for the SNP and the Police to let us know.
The absence of knowledge on these points leaves me uneasy about rejoining the SNP.
I think they are fair questions.
Regards
Ross
11.31pm I see you did not define “ citizens “. As James said there is no Scottish citizenship. No agreed definition of a citizen.
Delete7.45am “ are all those responsible for that decision now out of the party” - the answer is clearly NO.
DeleteHi 9,39
DeleteWell that is a problem I would say. Regardless of who is highlighting it.
Regards
Ross
The money was collected for a ring fenced fund to use during the promised indyref2. It was collected from independence supporters. Not just SNP members. It was NEVER meant to be used by the SNP for anything else. It was dodgy right from the start as there was no indyref2 date established. Sturgeon and Swinney years later then decided they didn’t know if it was legal for them to hold indyref2 and went to the UK court and got it declared illegal for them to hold indyref2. You would think you should establish indyref2 is something you could do legally before promising it and raising monies off the back of the promise. It has all the characteristics of a scam.
DeleteAre you Labour’s Kate Watson ‘former’ member of the British psyops 77th Brigade? Your ‘special influence methods’ aren’t working on the Scottish people anymore, you have been seen!
Delete" you have been seen! " says the numpty at 1.10pm. Scary stuff. Is Kate Watson Licensed to Kill. Does she drive an Aston Martin armed to the teeth or a mini with Union Jack lights.
DeleteRoss at 7.45am raises some valid questions. He won't get anything sensible back from 11.31pm. 11.31pm said there was no crime but Campbell and Clerkin upset him by getting Murrell jailed and proving him wrong. Rattle thrown out the pram.
DeleteWell, Salyers herself wouldn't be allowed to vote under a strict native franchise. But the question would be - how far back should we go? 10 years? 100 years? 1000 years? Would Gaels, Angles, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Norse descendants be disqualified? And what about Picts, how much do we really know about them?
ReplyDeleteIt all gets pretty stupid, frankly. What is often recognised is that the more a nation is made up of mongrels, the larger the gene pool and the stronger and healthier the people.
Woof!
Expecting that you have followed along with New Caledonia you might expect that the obvious compromise would be to put the dividing line at the date of the previous referendum.
DeleteThat way people who voted there would not be barred now.
Obviously if one wished to concoct something obviously unworkable or highly contentious, that could be done too.
aLurker - so you are happy that foreign students who voted in 2014 who no longer live in Scotland can vote in connection with Scotland’s future. Same for holiday home owners in Scotland in 2014. Same for all people who lived in Scotland in 2014 but now live elsewhere.
DeleteLooks to me like you have concocted “ something highly contentious”.
New Caledonia referendum franchise, approved by UN
Delete"Potential voters needed to be registered on the general electoral roll, and also had to meet one of the secondary criteria:[15]
Was on the electoral roll for the 1998 referendum on the Nouméa Accord;
Qualified to be on the electoral roll for the 1998 referendum, but were not enrolled;
Failed to meet the requirements to be on the 1998 electoral roll solely due to absence related to family, medical or professional reasons;
Having civil customary status, or born in New Caledonia and have their material interests in the territory;
At least one parent born in New Caledonia and have their material interests in the territory;
At least 20 years of continuous residence in New Caledonia by 31 December 2014;
Born before 1 January 1989 and have had their residence in New Caledonia between 1988 and 1998;
Born after 31 December 1988 and reached voting age before the referendum, with at least one parent who was on the electoral roll (or qualified to do so) for the 1998 referendum.
As a consequence of these restrictions, in the 2018 referendum 35,948 registered voters on the general list (17% of the 210,105 total registered voters) were excluded from the vote"
So no, foreign temporary residents didn't qualify, nor did holiday home owners unless fulfilled primary AND one secondary criteria. Nor would folk living elsewhere be entitled as they wouldn't be on voter roll regardless of secondary criteria.
Some so called independence supporters would give the vote to English people driving up the A1 in their campervan to stay for a few weeks in Scotland.
DeleteWe need a sensible franchise. Not blood and soil stuff but not anyone and everyone gets a vote either. As people like Swinney would want to lose a vote they would go for the anyone/everyone approach.
What you're describing sounds pretty blood and soil to me.
Delete6.23pm you don’t even have the good sense to address your comment to anyone. So your comment is meaningless.
DeleteRightly or wrongly, we need Westminster to approve a referendum. Every man and his dog knows that.
ReplyDeleteObviously some people don't know that. But if you mean it as a constructive suggestion, you should also suggest plausible circumstances in which you can foresee WM giving that approval. For most of us it's very difficult to see why they ever would, unless they were already under pressure following a de facto referendum
Delete“………under pressure following a de facto referendum”
Delete🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks for making my day Keaton, that’s the most hilarious thing I’ve read in a long time!
8.32 ‘rightly or wrongly” You couldn’t be more “wrongly”. We need the Scottish People to approve a referendum not Westminster.
Delete8.32am and 1.18pm is just KC at the wind up. It’s his only hobby. He needs therapy. He and Sturgeon could attend together. A couple of Britnats getting help.
DeleteHi ifs- still fixating over Nicola
DeleteAnon@ 8.28pm still fixating over ifs. You could do with some therapy as well.
DeleteAnother fan 😂😂😂 at 8.28pm. They must be missing me.
DeleteThey may need to approve a referendum result but the staging of one through an election is the only means of putting the pressure on it to do so.
ReplyDelete8.32am you are KC or you are doing a very good tribute act.
ReplyDeleteAnon@8:54,
ReplyDeleteIt was me posting at 8:32, I’m a lifelong supporter of independence, but a realistic supporter.
I can’t believe you thought I was that unionist troll KC!
Hi, KC.
Delete9.03am thanks for confirming you are indeed KC. You do realise you can post as KC.
DeleteEnglishman, by God, have a god-given right to interfere in anything they please and so it is right and just that anglos who turned up 5 minutes ago have an effective de-facto veto on the Scots and their folly; it is our duty to prevent this colossal act of self harm as an act of altruism.
ReplyDeleteTalk of UN rules about the franchise, e.g. New Caledonia, is just "foreigner talk" and rules made up by brown people.
"UN rules" LOL. Tell us about these mysterious "UN rules" about stripping voting rights from 20% of the population. Strange how no-one ever seems to be able to find them or quote them when pressed.
DeleteThat's because they don't exist. Another figment of Salyers' imagination
Delete10.45 I take your comment is ironic. If not fuck off racist scum there is no place in Scotland for your bile apart from inside Ibrox.
DeleteAnon@2:13, there’s no place for your disgraceful language.
Delete3.01 When it comes to racism there is every need for my ‘disgraceful’ language. Should I be nice to racists and the far right? Never!!! Like my uncle who fought fascists in the Spanish Civil War I will fight them till the day I die. There is no room in Scotland for there extremist views. If you are defending them then you too can fuck off!
Delete4:57,
DeleteI’m most certainly not defending them, just condemning your disgusting language!
5.14pm I agree with you and would also like to condemn his poor spelling as well. There should be no room in Ibrox either for racism and extremist views but 2.13pm seems to give them a free pass. It may well just be his inability to express himself clearly.
DeleteNo I can express myself clearly so much so that you understood the message of keeping the far right out of Scotland. As for giving them ‘them a free pass’ where do I say that. My ‘disgusting’ language would only offend someone who is okay with seeing the far right scumbag bigots marching from Ibrox to Glasgow City centre to intimidate, with violence, the people of Scotland! Maybe you are one of them!
Delete1.18pm it seems you cannot read your own posts very well. Read your post at 2.13pm. You say “ there is no place in Scotland for your bile apart from inside Ibrox.” Any normal reading of your words means you are saying it is ok in Ibrox.
DeleteA tip for you. Just say it is not acceptable anywhere in Scotland.
Your assertion that you have to like your foul language or you are a far right nutter is just silly.
So no apology from anonymous at 1:18 for his/her language.
DeleteSays it all!”
1.33 What century do you live in? The 16th? How dare I offend your Presbyterian view point! Well slap my fucking arse…oops there I go again with my uneducated Scottish ‘disgraceful’ language!!! Maybe I am just too wee too poor too stupid to not give a flying fuck about your fake moral outrage……..aye right……up the road!
Delete2:26,
DeleteA sad individual.
2.26 is more an angry coarse individual than sad. Not very bright either as foul language has nothing to do with morals. It also has nothing to do with Scottish language. How he manages to bring religion in to the matter is really weird.
Delete2.26 Is that it? Is that your grown up argument? Scottish Independence is getting closer and closer and that is your come back? Scotland says No to racism, Scotland says No to the pretendy Union, Scotland says yes to Independence……getting worried are you? You try to demean me by saying that my grammar is incorrect and that my language is disgraceful, that says more about you than me. A sad lonely wee yoon, entitled and morally corrupt!
Delete4.13 Dumbo unionist! I say old chap look at the ‘angry coarse individual’ he’s not like we elites, who does he think he is? Just ignore him Timothy and he might just go away. He seems to be one of those horrible working class northerners who doesn’t realise that he is better when he bally well doffs his cap to us his English masters! Awa a bile yer heed!!!
Delete4.13 ‘how he manages to bring religion in to the matter is really weird’ is a very strange statement, do you have zero knowledge of Scottish history? Try reading the Protestant Religion and Presbyterian Church Act 1707, it might enlighten you to why I brought it into as you say ‘the matter’!
DeleteUnbelievable arrogance by 5.40 and 5.52pm. It seems according to him that if you do not curse and swear you must be an English unionist.
Delete9.21 ‘unbelievable arrogance” ? I say old chap no need for that sort of language after all we are British are we not? Hark is that those damn Scottish savages on the rise again? Whatever they want tell them that they can’t have it, that will jolly well keep them in their box! Anyone for tennis?
Delete1.16am yes YOU are British. A Britnat trying to give independence supporters a bad image. Now the Britnat is trying to suggest that independence supporters don’t play tennis.
Delete7.39 Really? You got that from my comment? A very amateurish strawman! What English/British planet are you on? Do you not get sarcasm? Your last sentence should have been left in the primary school playground! I agree with your school report card….must try harder!
DeleteEveryone in the world should have a right to vote in an indy ref - all we then need to do is convince the SOFT NOES of the new scots in china and in india - all 3billion of them, and we have won.
ReplyDeleteI think everyone in the world should be a new Scot and get a vote. The logistics of distributing 8 billion postal ballots can be solved, I am sure.
Didn’t the English vote sway the result to no in the 2014 referendum
ReplyDeleteNobody knows that for certain. From memory I've seen one study that suggests they did, and one study that suggests they didn't. People will of course cherry-pick the study that suits them, but in truth we don't know.
DeleteWell they certainly didn’t help. At the time of the referendum I worked in a large factory in the central belt and there were more than a few English working beside me and everyone of them I knew and spoke to said they voted no. Anecdotal I know but it was as my experience at the time. In fact I never knew any English person who voted yes but no doubt someone will tell me otherwise
DeleteWell the “Scottish” Daily Mail had a front page headline a few days after the referendum stating that it was the English that won it for us. Clearly a statement telling Britnat Scots that you once again were saved by the English. Whether that is mathematically true or not who knows, but it seems reasonable to expect that the English ( not new Scots) voted no by a majority. Some analysis has stated 75% no.
DeleteBest to forget the whole franchise thing and concentrate on delivering proof that we can self govern effectively, efficiently and to the comparative benefit for our citizens against the present United Kingdom.
ReplyDeleteThe latest challenge / opportunity presents itself in the shape of Data Centres. There is a global gold rush / iron pyrite rush to set up these facilities. Leaving financial considerations aside for an initial, broad brush assessment, should the Scottish Government be facilitating the development of this sector?
These facilities are thirsty for water and power.
The oft quoted stat for water usage is that GPT3 uses 500ml of water for every 10 to 50 medium length responses. That’s a lot of water!
It’s not as simple as that, basically, the water is required for cooling. Water recycling is feasible at a cost. Proven, large scale cooling technology such as air towers with fans can be used. It depends on ambient conditions. In Scotland (for some of the year) even cooling lagoons might be feasible for cooling. Also, incoming water temperature is a factor. Our mountain and hill situated reservoirs can provide reliable cold inlet water.
The water discharged from the cooling circuits of the computer banks is not particularly warm, it has “low grade” energy. It is notoriously difficult to extract utility from this commodity, and as previously stated, cooling it requires additional energy.
Turning to energy. Due to the excess capacity for renewable energy in Scotland, while there is a transmission bottleneck roughly situated at the border, we have a potential supply of low cost electricity. That may be a temporary situation while the transmission network is being constructed to run cables South.
In short, from a technical perspective, Scotland is significantly better placed than many places to house Data Centres. In the Republic of Ireland there’s a mad rush to build these facilities. It really is “mad”. At this point in time all 26 counties of Ireland have a hosepipe pipe ban. Ireland is not energy rich.
Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are twa cheeks of the same neoconservative erse. They think they can extract financial utility out of housing Data Centres, just as they offer ultra low corporation tax to attract multinational companies.
Technically, the best location for Date Centres is probably Iceland. Their electricity comes from geothermal power stations (basically free once capital costs are negated by depreciation over a period of years). The water input to the Centres can be cooled in their cold climate for reuse, or it can be fed as preheated “feedstock” into the power plants.
Turning to the financial incentives to host Data Centres how real are they? The units being proposed for the North Lanarkshire AI growth zone promise 3,400 jobs, but that is the propaganda figure which includes the construction phase. Once they are up and running how many jobs will they support beyond low wage security positions and moderately paid engineering maintenance jobs?
The North Lanarkshire AI growth zone promises a community fund of £543 million over 15 years. It’s better than nothing. The question is whether it will have an operational lifespan of 15 years or whether this is just fool’s gold? Will it be the high tech equivalent of open cast mining which makes a profit and engineers it own financial insolvency to leave the public to pick up the decommissioning cost?
In summary, the Scottish Government probably should champion the construction of Data Centres as our power and water infrastructure presently facilitate that. They might even last the 15 years to deliver the promised “community fund” (the Data Centres in Ireland and various US states definitely won’t).
If we were thinking strategically about the situation, we might locate Hydrogen generation plants next to the Data Centres. These could use the hot water discharged from the Data Centres as “raw material” for their product (the efficiency of the process increases the hotter the water used).
We need more posts like your post and a lot less of the one line nasty comments.
DeleteI wasn't born in Scotland, and I'll be damned if I let some bunch of nativist cranks take my vote away from me because of accident of birth.
ReplyDeleteWell I was born in Scotland so according to you I’m a nativist crank. Do any other countries of the world let every Tom Dick and Harry vote in their referendums. I think not.
Delete"Do any other countries of the world let every Tom Dick and Harry vote in their referendums"
DeleteYou mean like...people? Did they not explain to you at school how universal suffrage works?
Or how democracy works!
DeleteThere is obviously a happy medium. I dont think an indian student should have a vote on this issue but a permanent resident should have the vote.
DeleteWhy single out Indians? What's your problem?
DeleteDid he watch too many cowboy and Indian films as a child?
DeleteLiberation who?
ReplyDeleteAye Liberation Scotland has exactly the same clout as the SNP when it comes to independence, the square root of hee haw
DeleteSelf govern efficiently. Does anyone in their heart of hearts think the SNP are doing that now. I know we have 2 hands tied behind our backs but they seem to me to be making the worst out of a bad situation.
DeleteAch there's always Peter A Bell's party!
Delete5.19 why are you recommending Peter A Bell’s party?
DeleteSome crazy comments on here today!
ReplyDeleteAnyone who thinks certain people shouldn’t be allowed to vote in Scotland because of their accent is, without question, a sandwich short of the full picnic!
Yes there are definitely a couple of ‘blood and soil’ racist nut jobs on this but if you look we usually rip them to shreds! After 319 years of psychological warfare the ‘cringe’ still rests with them!
DeleteAh the old racist trope rears its head again. In all the above comments I didn’t read one that mentioned race or colour until now. Here’s me thinking the school holidays were over. Apparently not.
Delete3.28 Maybe you should read all the comments again. Implied racism is still racism, but then as you are obviously one of them you try to blame everyone who isn’t a ‘pure blood’ (whatever that means) white British son of the house of orange by childishly trying to lessen the meaning of racism,
DeleteIf ye cannae say "it's a braw, bricht moonlit nicht" then ye dinnae deserve a vote.
DeleteMoonlicht nicht. Back to England for you then.lol
Delete10.44 Ha Ha Ha brilliant! Well spotted!
DeleteNot checked this site out in ages. In fact I've not paid attention to UK politics for years. I thought I'd have a quick look online and it looks like since the last GE, about 55% of all polls have had YES in favour and in the last year that number is over 60%. Has there been any coverage of this in the media (I assume not) and have you written about it at all James? and does this count as the sustained majority of YES voters that some said should be the minimum bar for another ref?
ReplyDeleteWell there’s certainly a sustained majority if you believe Find Out Now polls for the National, and ignore other polls!
DeleteWhat other polls?
DeleteIf Westminster continues to refuse us another referendum despite what the polls say, what can we do about it. We’re nothing but prisoners in our own country
Delete3:48,
DeleteNationalist bullshit!
Ok a colony then.
DeleteAnon@9:02, you sound like Ifs, with the colony nonsense.
DeleteFrankly, it’s embarrassing. Get a grip for pity’s sake!
KC@ 8.50am is not me. Sounds like ifs playing games. Scotland may be in a prison but it’s a lovely British prison where we give you Barnett money to keep you alive so you can sing God Save the King with great gusto.
Delete9.02pm is not me but Scotland is a de facto colony. We are totally controlled by England. Now some people just love being subjugated, subservient and humiliated but that disnae mean we are not a colony. We vote to stay in the EU but like a domesticated dog the Britnats say yes master Westminster we will do what you want. The English are proud of their Empire and the many colonies they collected but they only have a few left now. They like to call them oversees territories but Scotland is just a plain possession of England - a colony in all but name.
DeleteUsual nonsense from Ifs @4:33pm!
DeleteKC@4.39pm you would say that and thank goodness James normally filters you out.
DeleteThe U.N situation is quite clear on the voting franchise, simple Google search for the franchise to be used in decolonisation returns, inter alia:
ReplyDeleteWhen the United Nations (UN) oversees or recognizes a self-determination or decolonization referendum, it adheres to a strict, specific framework regarding the voting franchise (eligibility). This framework is designed to prevent the administering or colonizing power from artificially shifting the demographics to influence the vote.
The primary mandate of the UN Special Committee on Decolonization (C-24) is to protect the rights of the colonized or indigenous population. Therefore, a UN-sanctioned franchise avoids standard democratic "open residency" rules in favor of status-based and historical criteria
Key Requirements for the Voting Franchise
Prioritization of Indigenous and Native Populations.
The ballot is strictly reserved for people whose ancestral or birthright status ties them directly to the territory.This ensures that external or settling populations cannot vote to block the birthright of the native populace.
Exclusion of Settler/Administering Populations
To prevent a governing power from "tilting" the vote, citizens of the administering power who moved to the territory during the colonial period are typically excluded from the voter rolls, regardless of how long they have lived there.
Use of Historic Censuses
The UN frequently utilizes old colonial or independent censuses as a baseline to verify who is a true resident of the territory.Example: In planning the referendum for Western Sahara via MINURSO, the UN conducted an exhaustive identification process based strictly on the Spanish colonial census of 1974 to verify genuine Sahrawi voters.
Inclusion of the Diaspora and Refugees
Native inhabitants who were forced to flee, exiled, or are living abroad as refugees are actively tracked down and granted the right to vote.
Stringent Length of Residency Requirements
If non-indigenous residents are allowed to vote, they must meet extraordinarily long, multi-decade residency requirements.
"Native inhabitants who were forced to flee, exiled, or are living abroad as refugees are actively tracked down and granted the right to vote."
DeleteWee Stewie was famously exiled to Somerset by Amiga Magazine. Thank heavens the UN will classify him as a refugee and give him a vote, while quite rightly disenfranchising the bastard English tax-payers in Edinburgh!
Meanwhile, back in the real world...
Another ad hominem attack on this blog. In what way is the U.N. not in the real world? That subset was"inclusion of the Diaspora and refugees", in no way did I say the Key requirements all applied to Scotland. Get a life
DeleteGordon C - thanks for your informative post at 4.08pm.
DeleteAnon at 5.52pm you really are a very unpleasant person. Your post is also full of stupid comments. You seem very keen to support the rights of unionists. The same people who deprive Scotland of its right to self determination.
"In what way is the U.N. not in the real world?"
DeleteIt's your fantastical version that is outside the real world, not the UN. It's you we're insulting, not the UN, Gordon! More than happy to clear that up.
Funny, it came from the U.N website....you're better at insulting yourself than your feeble attempts at insulting others
DeleteThe person at 5:52 is probably not the sort of person to get stuck next to on a train. Self-assured ignorance is never a virtue and I should know because I'm more or less a Saint!
DeleteThe UN standard for a referendum is recognised as the gold standard worldwide. There is more than one route to independence.
DeleteLiberation? Are they the mob who got a mighty 13 votes in Aberdeen?
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean that someone residing in, say, Bath or Barcelona would be able to vote in Scotland?
ReplyDelete8.25pm’s reply to your question at 5.02pm is in the wrong place and is also a wrong answer to your question. The answer depends on what the vote pertains to.
DeleteNo
ReplyDeleteWell when and if Westminster grants us an other referendum someone will have to suggest who gets to vote in it. Lines will have to be drawn somewhere or is that too much of a racist and nativist comment.
ReplyDelete“Grants us” subservient words. Self determination is a human right. We are not slaves.
DeleteThats exactly why I said grant us as it is subservient and like it or lump it that is what Scotland is to Westminster, subservient. How else can we hold a referendum if it’s not with Westminsters permission. They have a stranglehold on us and none within the SNP and without don’t have much on an idea how to do anything about it. Hope I’m wrong.
Delete"Well when and if Westminster grants us an other referendum someone will have to suggest who gets to vote in it."
DeleteHow about the normal thing of over-18s? Hard to see why we suddenly need to get racist about it and start excluding adults based on being "incomers".
It’s 16 in Scotland or are you being ageist
DeleteThis discussion just illustrates that a clear franchise is needed. It’s 18 for UK GE but 16 for Holyrood. So both 9.50and 11.06pm are wrong. 9.32pm is the unionist KC.
Delete9:32pm was not me!
DeleteKC@8.57am was not me.
DeleteIs KC representing King Charles ?
DeleteKC is a parasite attached to SGP.
DeleteSo for example. I’m 66 born lived and worked in Scotland all my life. Paid umpteen thousands of pounds in tax ect and never had a days broo money, as we used to call it, in my life and some person from Eritrea Afghanistan or anywhere else you care to mention arrives in Scotland just before the referendum, you reckon it’s fair for people just here to have the same say in my country’s future as them. No bloody way is that fair.
ReplyDeleteI know all the folk coming from the south to use our nhs which is better
DeleteSo people who have paid less tax, or have claimed the broo, should also not get to vote?
DeleteA minimum residency period is reasonable to exclude people who are just passing through. But I don't think that's what Salvo are suggesting
As me ooops
ReplyDeleteNicola Sturgeon shares a stage with Sanna Marin at the Edinburgh International Book Festival. Marin, the former PM of Finland and poster child for liberal, identity politics, took Finland into NATO and broke off all trading relationships with Russia.
ReplyDeleteShortly thereafter Marin’s SDP lost its largest party status in a General Election. Rather than continue to serve the people of Finland from the backbenches, Marin resigned and took up a position as a strategic adviser at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change.
Presumably just the sort of post electoral politics gig Nicola was hoping for. Just a pity wee Peter was caught with his fingers in the till and Nicola was tainted with suspicion.
Finland has the highest unemployment rate in the EU (10.3%). Never mind, Sanna Marin got a nice little earner.
I hope Sanna Marin checked her purse was still there at the end.
DeleteAye Edinburgh-you have to watch
Delete2.14pm you never finished your sentence. Watch what? The Fringe? The Military Tattoo? The Castle? The Book Festival?
DeleteThe whole idea of independence is utter lunacy.
ReplyDeleteRule Britannia.
God save the King.
Anon@9:31am,
DeleteYour post is a wee bit ott, however I have to agree with the first line of your comment.
Independence supporters go on about the “benefits of Indy” but never explain what these benefits actually are!
Also of course, nobody in the SNP or wider independence movement has ever addressed the important issues of border with our biggest trading partner by far, currency, pensions, loss of billions a year we receive through the Barnett Formula, etc,etc in a satisfactory way. These issues were never addressed in 2014, and still haven’t. Until they are addressed in a satisfactory way, undecided voters and soft No voters will never be convinced on independence.
For the benefit of Anon@9-31am
Delete" Rule Britannia...
Marmalade and jam...
Five Chinese crackers up yer a******e ...
BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG BANG!"
9.31am is KC. KC likes talking to himself. KC and Sturgeon both Britnats who need therapy.
DeleteOh look! .... its wee (VERY wee) ifs @11-41am
DeleteSo, over 2 hours since I made a couple of very valid points @9:58am, and still nobody has been able to address them! Surprise surprise!
DeleteJust a couple of insults. Says it all really!!
Ok look it’s the anon@11.44am who is obsessed with ifs. This anon should join KC and Sturgeon and seek therapy. They may even give a discount for 3 Britnats presenting themselves at the same time.
DeleteI see one of anons that sees me everywhere is posting again at 11.44am. Unless this poster is near 7 feet tall then I am not very wee. Accuracy is never a strong point of these numpties.
DeleteAye ye are!....lol......you're a tiny wee insignificant naebody.
DeleteSays the anonymous poster who has achieved his lifelong ambition to be anonymous. Well done.
Delete"Tiny wee" 🤣🤣🤣 I guess you must be big wee then. Join a circus you clown 🤡. They are always on the lookout for a dwarf clown.
REMIGRATION is the new rock n'roll - everyone is into it.
ReplyDeleteAll over the world - even the pakistanis booted 1.5M afghans presumably because their food smells funny, they take our jobs and be messing with our women.
Total deportation of all engish including anyone over 1/4 should be a priority. Then policies to increase the native birth rate.
Scottish Indy will mean nothing if it does nothing for the Scots.
Brutal logic. No english, no problem. Trouble is they always like to take a massive shit before they leave - look at the mess they left in India-Pakistan, Nigeria, pretty much everywhere. The anglo is a crafty psychopath and we need to watch him and never believe his lies.
DeleteHow you spot them is : they have a little mouth inside a bigger mouth, and it comes out to bite you, steal your oil, gas, renewables, free prescriptions.
Why stop at people who are a quarter English? That's just leaving a load of enemies inside the gates. To be certain we should get rid of anyone who has ever visited England, or interacted with an English person (other than to write TORY SCUM OUT in excrement on their door), or who speaks English
DeleteUK government doesn't exist post independence so you won't need to worry about whether it recognises Scotland or not (whether Scots recognise ourselves once we become our own master/ get to eat all the pie, could be a different story entirely!)
ReplyDeleteAndy Burnham’s net favourability is +13% (YouGov 14th Aug). A 10% increase from the poll conducted when he first became PM.
ReplyDeleteKeir Starmer never enjoyed positive favourability ratings and spent most of his term at around -40%.
Burnham’s numbers: UK +13%, England +13%, Wales +30%, Scotland +8%.
Burnham’s King of the North schtick ain’t so attractive in the true North, but still no room for Swinney to be complacent.
Scotland for the Scots. Englands rapidly turning into Englandistan and Ireland is following quickly behind. We have to control our borders or we won’t have a Scotland that’s worth living in. Might be a bit late as Europe has a death wish regarding the Muslim hoards.
ReplyDeleteAnon 11:11 You are Alistair McConnachie and I claim my fiver. Now toddle off and sing the Horst Wessel song.
DeleteNopes lol. Nae fiver for u
DeleteCraig ' there's nae such country as Scotland, where's my black shirt ' Houston.
DeleteOr is it hordes
ReplyDeleteThis site is now infested with yoons and Atlis nutjobs.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention SNP dumplings who thought the Murrells were a fine upstanding couple.
DeleteKC is a numpty, but now there’s another diddy who’s posting under the name KC, who’s an even bigger numpty.
ReplyDeleteWhat a plonker!
Aye it’s terrible when people post using someone else’s moniker. What a plonker you are.
DeleteScots aren't english - and don't want to be. They are among us, a hidden hostile alien force which is determined to use whatever means to thwart our rights of self determination.
ReplyDelete- they are ethno-racial-supremacists, LITTLE ENGLANDERS all. They are not "new Scots" and will never be, nor do they want it - they want to setup their own thing, i.e. Scotland as a region of england, like kent, or norfolk. Check out the stories of how they behave in their little dens at Edinburgh and St Andrews universities (no natives allowed).
When we gave them a vote in 2014, they voted 80:20 for the union, ingrates.
They are enemy agents and our politics and especially the wider indy movement is riddled with them.
The sick, dark ironic joke of it all is these - anglo supremacists - come up here "on the run" from the "ethnics" they imported en-masse via their experiment in multiculturalism, which was purely about wage suppression and corporate profit; now they want to use Scotland as a lifeboat.
A sad desperate anti English post.
DeleteConsider seeking help!
And never a truer word was spoken.
Deleteps meant for the comment at 1.10
DeleteAnon @1:10pm,
DeleteOh dear, proof if proof was needed, as to just how desperate nats have become!
KC Britnats like you are desperate as you know the fake union is coming to an end as your master state England is going down the drain.
DeleteDelusional stuff from the anonymous clown@5:06pm.
Deletecheckout a highland games - the tortured accents are like a home counties gymkhana
ReplyDeletethen take a drive to house of bruar
and wonder what happened to the Scots