Because what is definitely not a psephological point of interest about next year's election is whether or not the SNP on their own will win a single-party overall majority. In percentage terms, I would say that there is maybe a 0.5% chance of it happening and a 99.5% chance of it not happening. That is simply because we have a proportional representation voting system which is designed to prevent any single party from winning a majority on its own, and in general it does that job very effectively. If a weather forecaster told me that there is a 0.5% chance it will rain, I don't think I would even bother packing an umbrella. When people say that lotteries are a "tax on stupidity", they don't mean that it is literally impossible for anyone to win the lottery jackpot - clearly people do win. It's just that it's so close to impossible for any given individual to win as makes no difference, and it's therefore rational to say that they are simply throwing their money away for no purpose.
So by the same token, it's rational to say that it's not a question of what John Swinney will do *if* the SNP do not win a single-party majority, but what he will do *when* the SNP do not win a single-party majority. The laws of arithmetic do not yield to sheer force of will. They do not change just because the SNP has inexplicably chosen to set itself a near-impossible target.
Now it may yet be that the pro-independence parties will fail to win a majority of seats between them, in which case it's all an academic point. That would have constituted a defeat anyway, regardless of what happened at the weekend. But if the pro-indy parties do win a majority between them, and the SNP fall short of a single-party majority, which at this stage looks like the most probable election outcome, that will be - as Toni Giugliano pointed out in his speech - a victory that we have chosen to turn into a defeat. I really don't understand what the plan is in that eventuality or where John Swinney proposes to go from there.
One theory is that Mr Swinney doesn't think Scotland is ready to pursue independence (his comments in the Salmond/Sturgeon BBC documentary were consistent with that), and therefore he's consciously set up this strategy as a sort of "painful but necessary demonstration" to the independence movement, ie. when the single-party majority isn't won, he will say: "You see? We fought this election flat-out on the independence issue, we threw the kitchen sink at it, but the public simply weren't listening to us. Now we must heed that painful lesson and take the slow road to build the public's trust gradually, and I'm the man for that job." However, if that is what he has in mind, there are two obvious problems. Firstly, in order to win support for his resolution at conference, he built expectations sky-high that not only would the single-party majority be won, but that he would personally ensure that it happened. Several of the supportive speakers, notably Kate Forbes and Stephen Gethins, urged delegates to vote for the motion on a "back John Swinney to deliver the goods" basis, with the subtext being that even if you doubted the logical coherence of the plan, trust in the leader and loyalty to the leader should trump those doubts. So if Mr Swinney doesn't meet the expectations he's built up, it's hard to see how he can then credibly present himself as the man best-placed to lead the SNP on a "pivot to the slow boat". Essentially he's staked his leadership on literally delivering an independence referendum in a very short period of time via a single-party majority.
The other problem is that if pro-independence parties do win a majority in combination but the SNP don't win a majority on their own, I would suggest the lesson the independence movement will take from that is not that we were pushing too hard for independence and should slow down, but instead that we were self-evidently daft to bet the house on a single-party majority. And I would also suggest that anyone dismayed by what happened at the weekend should use that as really strong motivation to get as good a result for the SNP as possible at the Holyrood election, because if, say, the SNP win 60 seats and the Greens win 12, I think it's pretty likely that delegates at future SNP conferences will learn the correct lesson and realise that the new strategy was a dreadful mistake that must never, ever be repeated. And that means a good election result will indirectly help us to win independence, albeit a few years later than should really have been necessary.
I know many people felt they were slipping into an alternate universe when a speaker at the debate said that she had honestly thought that an independence referendum was imminent several years ago, but had woken up to reality now, and wanted the rest of us to join her in the real world, stop chasing shadows and back a credible way forward, by which she meant the leadership motion. Anyone listening to that speech would have been forgiven for thinking that the SNP have been pursuing de facto referendums for the last ten years, and it's that which has proved a hopeless failure - when in fact they haven't tried a de facto referendum even once. What they have tried, and tried, and tried again, and has hopelessly failed every single time, is precisely what the leadership have successfully argued must be tried yet again in a new "let's make it even more difficult for ourselves" variant form. If you want to argue that the de facto referendum plan has failed every time it's been tried, get back to us when you've allowed it to be tried even once. If you want us to believe the current plan of seeking a Section 30 order is the credible grown-up alternative, get back to us if you ever manage to break its seemingly endless run of being tried repeatedly without even the remotest hint of success.
Contradictions and paradoxes abound in the new variant of the Section 30 strategy. We're told that the SNP will be campaigning on "Scotland's right to choose", when in fact the SNP have just decided for the very first time that Scotland does *not* have the right to choose, or at the very least that it does not have the right to make certain choices or in certain ways. For example, if Scottish voters look at a Green party manifesto that offers independence, and if they vote Green on that basis, the SNP are now saying that is not a decision they have a right to take - or at least that it's not a decision the SNP will respect or recognise the legitimacy of. We're also told that a key part of the strategy will involve reaching out to the rest of the movement and uniting it, but how are you even going to get a hearing from the non-SNP parts of the movement when you've just told them that they have no legitimacy whatsoever and that votes for them don't even count?
For what it's worth, I have no doubt that when the history of the Scottish National Party is written, this strategy will look like a weird and exotic little blip. It will soon collapse under the weight of its own contradictions, because belief in Scottish self-determination is in the SNP's DNA. A situation where the SNP are themselves curtailing Scotland's right to choose in certain circumstances will not and cannot be sustained for very long. But as I stated above, the best way to get over this blip as soon as possible is to win as good an election result for the SNP as possible - that's what will most powerfully demonstrate to delegates at future conferences that the only real barrier to independence is the single-party majority strategy we've needlessly imposed upon ourselves. Don't listen to the siren voices of the Stews of this world who are trying to convince you that somehow the way to win independence is by first destroying it with a vote for the far-right British nationalist party Reform UK.
Its not only the Britnats that are scared of a de facto referendum it is the SNP as well. Both are terrified of a majority vote for independence.
ReplyDeleteQuite right, IfS. The worst nightmare for Scotgov right now would be the (laughable) mandate they (claim to) demand in the form of an outright single party majority. What would they do then? What's Swinney's secret plan? Thank Starmer / Streeting / Farage for telling him No?
DeleteMore SNP seatwarmers good.
More SNP responsibilities bad.
Stay calm and keep on hauding your wheesht "for Indy." Even with a stanch Britnat coalition ally to apologise for next.
I think Swinney needs to lose this election and resign - so that we can have a fresh start with a new leader. Very possibly Stephen Flynn - I feel like he’s trying to find a way to create a clean break. It gives the party a fresh start with the voters but it also shows that Scotland remains stubbornly divided on independence- very possibly more in favour of union.
ReplyDeleteHow and why does it show that? The final part of your comment doesn't make any sense.
Delete"this strategy will look like a weird and exotic little blip. It will soon collapse under the weight of its own contradictions, because belief in Scottish self-determination is in the SNP's DNA."
ReplyDeleteIt was. It surely was. Yet we all saw this coming, and you witnessed it yourself in the "revivalist" atmosphere of the hall. There's something else going on isn't there? It's not just the SNP leadership but the delegates by and large as well. But what else could it be?
The cult of personality perhaps? And I don't mean John Swinney, obviously, but the blood on the carpet—and the separation of the family—from the unhealed wounds of Salmond's dismemberment by his own lifetime's work and party?
It's a dark thought, I admit, but I think we will see a lot more mistakes and misadventures down this sorry never-never path until all of that is finally and rightfully put to bed, in justice.
We were played. And we still are being played.
Flynn's looks don’t lie. He really is Swinney Junior. Snout by snout at Britannia's teats.
ReplyDeleteDevo or death, brothers!
The maddening thing is the SNP may well form an alliance with the Scottish Greens to form a working majority post HR26.
ReplyDeleteWord is that the Lib Dems are more to their taste now.
DeleteAll the better to shove Indy far into the dark and mouldy recesses of the garden shed.
The precedent is set, boys. The United Kingdom would like to thank our esteemed and valiant ally, Mr. Swinney, for giving us the gift that will keep on giving.
ReplyDeleteBecause, all together now: NOW IS NOT THE TIME!
Thanks a million, John. You're a Briton and a gentleman. God bless you.
Lord Blackford and Sir Swinney? Can we start the campaign?
DeletePerhaps it's a tactical move by Swinney to distance the SNP from the Greens. By taking the emphasis away from pro-independence majorities, it frees him up to strict a deal with the LibDems.
ReplyDeletePerhaps he actually knows that the SNP can't reach 50% levels of support without moving away from identity politics, and this is the way to do it. Effectively parking independence until beyond 2031.
I may, however, be havering pish.
It would certainly be nice if you were just spouting pish. The trouble is, everyone and their dug, Ginger or otherwise, knows Swinney's not aiming for the statistically infeasible, but for the excuse to do exactly as he wanted to do all along.
DeleteCome on in, Cole-Hamilton. A pip pip pip for the union to you, too!
Lib Dems wont make a deal with the Snp as they the Lib Dems are unionist through and through and Cole Hamilton. Is more Tory than some Tories. Would love to know where all the Green Party supporters actually live in Scotland other on.a flashy new bike lane the rest of us have paid for. No one I have met in the past year has even hinted they intend to vote for the Scottish Greens. Perhaps they are just shy.
DeleteI can’t make up my mind what is worse. Is it the SNP reprising I have a secret tactic ( plan) or churning out another Mike Russell type 11 point plan. Anyone remember how far we got on that plan?
ReplyDeleteAnyways just keep voting SNP. Who knows they might actually make Scotland independent for our great great great great great great great great grandchildren. There is always a bright side to everthing. We can pass that hope on to future generations. Always look on the bright side of life.
"as things stand at the moment,". Indeed. so things will have to change.
ReplyDelete"Essentially he's staked his leadership on literally delivering an independence referendum in a very short period of time via a single-party majority.". Indeed, so he's going to have to do exactly that.
Essentially he's doing what people like me have demanded - show some courage for a change. Well, he has. What happens now - is up to him (and the rest of the SNP).
It's all to play for and, as has beeb said before, you ain't seen nothing yet.
Hopefully ...
"as things stand at the moment" was, as you can clearly see, a reference to my 60-65% estimate of the chances of a combined SNP-Green majority, and not to my estimate of a 0.5% chance of an SNP overall majority. It's the electoral system that makes an SNP single-party majority almost impossible, and prevailing political circumstances won't change the equation much. So no, "all to play for" is not a remotely credible assessment.
DeleteWhat a nonsensical self contradictory post. Show some courage??! If courage means utter stupidity then yes he has shown some courage. Unless of course he is just a cynical lying self serving careerist putting party (and salary and pension) well before Indy, by imposing an impossible SNP bar on progressing Indy. He has also disenfranchised everyone who votes Green. Quite an achievement. They are getting neither my Constituency nor my list vote. They are both going to the greens. That is the best way to get the message over. This consequence has not even occurred to the dullards in SNP.
DeleteOn a more general note, there are just two main tenets of intelligence and counter-intelligence:
ReplyDelete1). Keeping secrets
2). Releasing red herrings
3). Releasing secrets appearing to be red herrings
There's also common sense.
DeleteOh, how I am scunnered with them. I've been walking about in a dark mood to match the weather since Saturday, since it was suddenly obvious to me that the amendments never stood a chance in hell against such madcap zealotry.
ReplyDeleteSo what to do? Right now, I have no idea.
If John Swinney had got anything amounting to tacit international support for his plan before announcing it, even a shred of approval from a few sympathetic Westminster grandees, I'd be right behind it and spreading the word.
But he hasn't anything. Even if he achieves the near impossible, he will be waved away within a few days by Westminster who will, if they can be bothered, say that his 2011 precedent was no such thing and that he has wasted everyone's time pretending it was anything other than a sequence of unrelated events which led to Cameron agreeing to the 2014 referendum.
His whole plan is based on Reform splitting the Unionist vote but if we know one thing about Unionists it's that they vote tactically at elections. Swinney's poor judgement and crazy justification are going to set a precedent that might haunt us for years. So, I won't be voting SNP. I won't encourage delusional behaviour. In my view, the more the plan fails the better then it can be consigned to history as a moment of pure stupidity.
Instead, I might do something equally odd, for me at least, and vote Scottish Green (as much as I am able to). If the SG do well enough we might at least get our Indy majority, for what it's worth.
But, if I'm honest, right now I feel like parking my desire for independence for the next six years and getting on with my life while John Swinney dreams up more ways of keeping us in the Union.
Sorry for not being more positive, but it is what it is.
I agree with this:
ReplyDelete"In percentage terms, I would say that there is maybe a 0.5% chance of it happening and a 99.5% chance of it not happening. That is simply because we have a proportional representation voting system which is designed to prevent any single party from winning a majority on its own, and in general it does that job very effectively."
Swinney is basing his 'strategy' on replicating the fluke of 2011 when nobody anticipated the single party majority outcome. It didn't happen even when Sturgeon was at the height of her powers and popularity at both the 2016 and 2021 HEs. It simply won't happen with John Swinney at the helm, even if the SNP sweep the constituencies the penalty will be next to no seats in the regions. QED.
Swinney know this. His actual (not so very well hidden) strategy is therefore to swindle Independence of their votes in order to get an SNP government elected that does not have any obligation to do anything to realise Scottish independent statehood.
But I disagree with this:
" And I would also suggest that anyone dismayed by what happened at the weekend should use that as really strong motivation to get as good a result for the SNP as possible at the Holyrood election, because if, say, the SNP win 60 seats and the Greens win 12, I think it's pretty likely that delegates at future SNP conferences will learn the correct lesson and realise that the new strategy was a dreadful mistake that must never, ever be repeated. And that means a good election result will indirectly help us to win independence, albeit a few years later than should really have been necessary."
That plays into Swinney's hands.
It will elect SNP candidates on a fraudulent prospectus and they will be seen as confidence tricksters, eventually, by the electorate.
The SNP will be rightly tarred as timorous hypocrites, a party that accepts that Westminster has a veto over Scotland's right to decide and its choice whilst at the same time claiming to believe in Scottish sovereignty It will waste yet another 5 years with a cowering administration that has no intention of pursuing the restoration of Scotland's Cause and give the British state even more time to bind us ever more tightly into their suffocating embrace.
This will only harm the cause.
Beyond the political theatre the Independence question will be settled by the looming economic crisis that is fast approaching for the English state. The support amongst certain social classes in Scotland for the overlordship of the english Parliament was always contingent on low taxation and the lion's share of resources redistributed by the English Parliament to Scotland. When taxes rise and the bribes and sinecures are reduced the support will vanish.
ReplyDeleteMit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens - of course Swinney isnae stupid, not as such.
ReplyDeleteSomething far more structured is at play here.
What constitutes a political party? Well, one whose democratic core has been hollowed out and replaced by a small clique of salaried apparatchiks.
The SNP is effectively fifteen or so fairly young, middle class, politics graduates residing in Jackson’s Entry. For these people, the £1 million plus pa in British state, Short money which was theirs prior to June 2024 (and will likely be theirs again at the next UK GE), represents their most assured source of livelihood, mortgage payments, pension fund, etcetera.