Greetings from sunny Birmingham, where I am currently on a bus on the motorway. This is my second attempt to take advantage of the time on the journey to post about the result of the Scottish Green leadership election. I fell asleep during my first attempt (not a snide comment - I literally fell asleep), and I thought that was fate telling me to abandon the idea. But I've been moved to have a second go after seeing Stew's post on the subject. What a remarkable lack of curiosity he has. He takes endless delight in sneering about the 90% abstention rate as if it can somehow be explained entirely by a lack of enthusiasm for the candidates, seemingly without it occurring to him how phenomenally improbable that notion is.
Something very strange is happening here - members of political parties are generally far less apathetic than the public at large, not far more so. A lack of interest simply can't plausibly explain a 10% turnout. Have the Greens been massively exaggerating their membership numbers? Did they fail to adequately advertise the leadership election to members or to properly explain the voting process?
For what it's worth, although the new Greer/Mackay leadership will not resolve the Greens' biggest problem (their identity politics extremism), I think they may have marginally boosted their chances of electoral success by narrowly ousting Lorna Slater. Anecdotally, she really grated on people. I don't think that's anti-Canadianism (if such a thing exists), because there are plenty of very attractive Canadian accents, but she just comes across as very hectoring and humourless.
As for Stew's ongoing fantasies about next year's Holyrood election producing some sort of Green Armageddon, again I think that's wide of the mark. If Polanski wins the English Green leadership race and goes into an electoral pact with the Jeremy Corbyn/Zarah Sultana party, it becomes very difficult for the Scottish Greens not to consider a similar arrangement, which might actually help them prosper. My main concern would be the implications of that for their pro-independence stance.
This is the first ive heard of the 90% abstention, I haven't read wings piece.
ReplyDeleteThat's remarkable whatever the reason.
Is there an explanation of low turnout that reflects well on the Greens. Can't think of one.
DeleteDon't read Wings, it's bad for your mental health.
DeleteWings gives you red bull.
DeleteIt must have been the upper middle class twit of the year compo. And they could have elected Bonzo the Chimp rather than Ross Greer. At least Bonzo wouldn't have reeked of class entitlement, would have had a similar level of shreaking, and would have been equally competent. They have found someone even worse than Lorna Bottle-Banks.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm understanding this correctly only 10% of party members voted ? Might it just be possible that members simply didn't like the candidates ?
ReplyDeleteAs it stands I'm thinking of only voting SNP on the list. Our candidate is an advanced skills numpty aspiring to an obedient place at the salary trough.
A known opponent continuing to hold the seat may do less damage to the indy cause than yet another Trojan horse inside.
Never considered this approach before and wouldn't now if our candidate was not worse than useless.
Strange days cause strange situations perhaps ?
"Might it just be possible that members simply didn't like the candidates ?"
DeleteNope. That's the point the blogpost is making. Of all the possible explanations, we can firmly rule that one out. It can't even begin to explain a 10% turnout.
Marcia
ReplyDeleteThe Turnout was 12.5% not 10%. Still extremely low.
ReplyDeleteAs a Green Party member, I only got round to voting on the Saturday, and found that the voting had closed on the Friday. I’d been working flat out for too long, and it was my first moment. I’d suggest such polls should close on a Sunday night.
ReplyDeleteSurely they must be faking their membership figures at that rate?
ReplyDeleteYou are exaggerating. It wasn't a 90 % abstention rate. It was ONLY 88%!
ReplyDeleteThunderbirds are go. Puppet head Ross Greer wants to be a Minister in Bute House 2 - the horror story continues.
ReplyDeleteMuppet head IfS wants to be noticed - the horror story continues.
DeleteAnon at 11.46pm it's not hard to be noticed amongst a sea of halfwit anons like you. I'm guessing you are one of the halfwits who thought Sturgeon's Bute House agreement was fine and dandy.
DeleteThere is nothing else on the planet like the SNP halfwits that Sturgeon took for fools. Or the halfwits like you anon who claimed Yousaf was growing in to the job just before he resigned. Or the halfwits like you who claimed it was all lies that SNP membership was plummeting only to find out that "Peter" was indeed lying about the membership numbers. Or the halfwits like you who saved the date - 19/10/23. Now the halfwits are trying to big up "Honest" John Swinney who not only was there in the middle of all the lies but actively tried to cover it all up.
Halfwits like you never learn.
Ifs, your criticism of JS is out of order. He really has steadied the ship and is turning things around.
DeleteNice of a halfwit to turn up at 12.38pm to confirm these halfwits never learn.
DeleteIfs, if you’re serious about wanting independence you have to get behind the SNP whether you like it or not. They’re the only show in town.
DeleteIf I'm serious about wanting independence asks anon at 2.34pm. Bloody cheek. I've spent the last 5 years on SGP trying to warn halfwits that the SNP leadership are charlatans/ devolutionists and they need to be removed and I have been proven right. There is no show in town at present for Scottish independence and that is all down to the halfwits that idolised Sturgeon.
DeleteI know you’re not happy with the SNP Ifs, but what other party can independence supporters vote for?
DeletePlease don’t tell me you’re going to waste your vote by voting ISP again. That would be nuts!
8.20pm please don’t tell me you’re going to waste your vote by voting SNP again. That would be nuts.
DeleteAnon at 8.20pm I will vote for who I want to. Your attitude would be well at home in the Soviet Union or China.
DeleteWhat I will tell you is that the last 11 years have PROVEN that voting for an SNP led by a member of Sturgeon's gang is detrimental to Scottish independence.
Sturgeon, who has now admitted in her book that she never believed from day one of being FM that she would hold Indyref2, raised money on the back of promising she would. The money that then broke out of its ring fence all on its own according to halfwits.
Or Swinney who told us he advised Sturgeon NOT to hold Indyref2.
Independence for Scotland at 8.20 pm. Golly gee, madam. Someone's cut off your link to reality. You seem to be floating around in a world peopled with fantasy figures.
DeleteIfs@12:40pm, you haven’t addressed anon@8:20pm point.
Deleteie what party other than the SNP can serious independence supporters vote for? It’s crazy that some waste their vote by voting for Micky mouse parties like Alba or ISP. It’s senseless.
Also, I note you’ve read Nicola Sturgeon’s book! Didn’t think it would be your cup of tea.
Fleece, please note that I made no post at 8.20pm and that is reality. Apart from the fact that your post is insulting it makes no sense at all. My advice to you is to try harder to be accurate and better at communicating or go back to school.
DeleteIfs, Still waiting for a response to my post @2:42pm.
DeleteIn your own time.
Who is counting the Greens membership numbers? Peter Murrell?
ReplyDeleteIt's only £1 to be a Green member. They probably sign up a few thousand university students every year.
ReplyDeleteIt seems unlikely to be real. Maybe people thought they'd voted but it wasn't registered, maybe not enough reminder emails, I think the Greens should talk to each other and ask - did you vote? There's a lot of incompetence around with online voting - and hacking.
ReplyDeleteMe thinks that the hanfull of votes in the hundreds simply confirms a cardboard cutout of a party.
ReplyDeleteNo party members, no interest, or trust in em, the voters i suspect will I suspect relegate them to Lord Such , Monster Raving Loony Party status.
Or toe that of Alba
DeleteHere's a guess. There's been some sort of civil war going on in the Scottish Greens between Greer's mob and those who think he's dragging the party towards another SNP coalition. The anti Greer group still haven't got over the Bute House agreement being dumped and don't trust the SNP or Greer. Is it possible the membership is far more radically left than it's politicians and they simply boycotted the leadership election en masse?
ReplyDeleteAgain, it's just not plausible that a boycott campaign could be as successful as that.
DeleteHauf pint poll fae BMG Research puts Farage on a 15% lead.
ReplyDeleteWestminster voting intention, field work 26 - 28 Aug, sample population 1,504.
Lab 20%, Con 17%, RefUK 35%, LibDem 13%.
No available Scottish sub-sample. SNP were on 2% in UK readout, but sample size makes any Scotland only result irrelevant.
The Future of England Study 2024 - 25, highlights the growth in “political Englishness”.
ReplyDeleteThe crossover point between those that identified as specifically English rather than British was reached between 2021, and 2023. Now a Net 6% majority of respondents identify as exclusively English.
Of all the home nations (Scotland, Wales, & N.I.) Scotland is seen as receiving most disproportionately high largesse from mother England. Talk about grievance monkeys.
Every effort of the British, permanent state to calm the waters of “political Englishness” has failed.
Brexit didn’t satisfy our AngloSaxon neighbours. English Votes for English Laws didn’t mollify les rosbifs. Metro Majors didn’t calm the gammons.
The failure of this last initiative is surprising. After all, the representative of the ancient Nation of Scotland was happy to have his photie took alongside the Major of Greater Peterborough.
More specifically, Swinney was happy to be photographed standing at the edge of the group of Mayors, leaning in, looking like a minor character desperate to be included with the big boys.
DeleteThe meeting was IN SCOTLAND too! Do you honestly think Andy Burnham would've stood to one side if the meeting had been in Manchester?
Let's no use this Britnat term ' home nation(s) ' . Scotland is ma hame no England, Wales or NI. Whilst we're still in the UK the correct term is UK nations.
DeleteAs it's effectively free to be a member of the Scottish Greens, a huge proportion of members are casually signed up for the issues, not the party politics.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the stands outside student unions and the website membership portal are simply data harvesting exercises. Once you're signed up, you get endless messages from SG allied organisations inviting donation by direct debit etc.
They like to target groups of young people, relying on peer pressure to get everyone signing over their contact info. Believe me, very few of those signing up could name the outgoing SG leaders so it's no surprise they've shown no interest in who follows them.
That sounds plausible. So the membership is different from that of other parties.
Delete9.34 Spot on. There's no mystery here. It's similar to joining the student union at Uni. You sign up for cheap beer and to see live bands. Nobody gives a toss who the student union president is.
DeleteHas anyone noticed that it doesn't matter what the topic is supposed to be IFS keeps trying to drag it all back to how much he hates Nicola Sturgeon because she wouldn't love him, just like his idol Stew
ReplyDeleteA misogynist Tory till he dies
Halfwit anon at 12.18pm - it's a pity you couldnae notice that Sturgeon and Swinney have been lying to you for 11 years now and counting. The rest of your post about Sturgeon not loving me/Campbell is my idol/Tory etc is just the sort of dross that halfwits like you come up with because you are incapable of putting together any decent argument.
DeleteAnon @12.18 PM is right though IFS, you're obsessed by Nicola Sturgeon, every post you make is hate filled about her, you can't deny it
DeleteAnother halfwit turns up at 2.22pm. This anon says " every post you make is hate filled about her, you can't deny it. " I can deny it and I can prove it. I refer the halfwit to my post at 10.27pm where the words Nicola or Sturgeon are nowhere to be seen.
DeleteIn addition the only people using the word hate are the halfwits.
Come on, FfS is doing his damnedest to get independence for Scotland, he's unfortunately distracted by Nicola Sturgeon !
DeleteIFS is doing his damnedest to put people off independence, he always has even since Stewie blocked him from wings for being a Tory
DeleteEven when IFS says he's never mentions Sturgeon, he keeps mentioning her
DeleteThe boy's not right in the head
Ifs and Stewie are setting up home together.
ReplyDeleteBless.
They love each other, it's allowed these days
DeleteAnon at 3.06pm Are you the same halfwit who claimed I was expelled from Campbell's blog. I suppose you cannae expect halfwits to post anything sensible. Calling this anon a halfwit is being fairly generous.
DeleteNicola Sturgeon in her book referring to the alphabetty liars says “ I obviously know some of the women involved.” Sounds like she should be prosecuted for jigsaw identification.
ReplyDeleteDidn't she tell the Salmond inquiry she didn't know who they were?
DeleteSturgeon’s whole life is a lie.
DeleteClearly not lawyers, or even very bright are you?
DeleteI wonder if those women lied as much as Salmond lied to his wife?
Delete8.23am and just how do you know if Salmond lied to his wife? Also if he did lie to his wife then it was not during a serious criminal case in the High court and committing perjury.
DeleteAnon at 8.23am more desperate stuff from probably the same halfwit. If you cannae see how deliberately lying in the High court to send someone to jail is not comparable with what goes on between a man and wife in their own home then you really don't even deserve to be called a halfwit.
DeleteAnon at 1155 -
DeleteThere was no perjury committed in that case.
Legal fact.
And lying to your wife about your sexual involvement with other women makes you a total scumbag in most voters' eyes.
As Salmond's later poll ratings clearly showed.
Anon at 4.05. How do you come to the conclusion you do about jigsaw identification? Probably because you are an idiot? Yep. That’s it. Are you and IFSy besties? He has accepted that he is a half wit, a hater and an idiot? What about you?
DeleteThe only person using the halfwit word is the hater. Fixed that for you IFSy.
ReplyDeleteIFS is a simpleton. He applied to join the halfwit club, but failed the entrance exam. Poor wee IFSy.
ReplyDeleteIt seems “halfwit” has replaced “numpty “ as Ifs favourite word.
ReplyDeleteWrong ya numpty at 2.34pm.
DeleteIfs, I note you still haven’t responded to the poster yesterday, regarding people wasting their votes by voting for Micky mouse parties like ISP. I agree with him/her that these people can’t be serious independence supporters.
DeleteIn your own time IFS.
DeleteAnon at 9.33
DeleteYou are very accurate when you say that anyone saying they are pro independence but who then knowingly wastes their vote on parties like ISP, Alba etc...which have absolutely no chance of winning any seats anywhere, are not serious independence supporters at all.
They will have another agenda entirely, which normally is to try and destroy the SNP.
Still nothing from Ifs!
DeleteDisappointing but not surprising.
Looks like Ifs has gone to ground.
DeleteSalmond obviously lied through his teeth to his wife.
ReplyDeleteReally makes you wonder what else he lied about.
Probably a hell of a lot.
Liars like him lie continuously.
4.35pm that post makes you look like someone who has a reading age of 8 and likes their sentences to be short and well spaced out as per your normal reading material in the Daily Record.
DeleteIFS is exactly like Salmond, he keeps right on barefaced lying, if nobody's paying for it he would be begging for a public crowdfunder to keep on paying him to lie
DeleteSturgeon never wanted to be in the English house of commons or house of lords, she was only interested in Scotland
DeleteSturgeon never begged Cameron for devo max
Sturgeon never begged a crowdfunder to pay for lawyers, she knew she was innocent
Sturgeon never had her hand up anybody's skirt or down their trousers or had "sleepy champagne cuddles"
9.38am “ she was only interested in Scotland “ yet she tried to save the UK from Brexit not Scotland. Yet she is moving to London.
Delete“ Sturgeon never begged a crowdfunder to pay for lawyers” that would be because she used SNP party funds.
“ Sturgeon never had her hand up anybody’s skirt “ just exactly how do you know that.
Sept 1 at 10.14 am For heaven's sake - Scotland same under UK as EU member - therefore arguing against Brexit was arguing for Scotland. It's why ScotGov submitted a really detailed report for Westminster detailing every knock-on effect Brexit would have for Scotland and asking UK to use it in their negotiations - but of course they didn't. She had to fight against Brexit because Scotland is not a 'member' of the EU on its own.
DeleteYou say - yet she is moving to London. SO? Are the Yes movement now banning all Scots from going where the heck they want for a while? You wanted rid of her - so she might oblige by going to London. Salmond had a flat in London and spent more time there than in Scotland - bet you didn't slag him off. Are we so 'wee' Scotland now that Scots are not allowed to go live where they want for a while?
Sturgeon never played victim and pouted so that the Yes movement would feel sorry for her!
LOL! Sturgeon was and is scrutinised practically 24-hours by every hack and toady in the land and enough bitter wee snoops hate her to make it impossible that it wouldn't have been all over the front pages by now if she'd ever had her hand up anybody's skirt. However, there are a couple of wee pretendy yes bod now Nicola haters of both sexes who hate her simply because she wasn't interested in their come-ons and they so resented that that they became little toady play to the gallery Nicola haters.
The coked up haters make it up as they go along.
OK let's deal with what you mindlessly scribbled
DeleteFirst if she had not tried to convince England against Brexit she would have been accused of not working for Scotland given that we are a colony and England makes those decisions
Second, not one penny of SNP funds paid for anything in the case of Nicola Sturgeon versus the British government smear aided and abetted by Salmond Stewie and his morons
How do I know that she didn't have her hand up anybody's skirt? because if she did don't you think she have been accused of that as well if they thought they could make shite stick
Finally Nicola Sturgeon is not moving to London to live, she just moving to London in the same way everybody on the planet moves around for work or just for a change of troll in her case
People like you are the toxic Arse of Scotland and grateful for nothing, without her there would never even have been a 2014 referendum for Salmond to tank
You would have had pretend devo max if you were lucky and Salmond's Arse in the house of Lords where he always wanted to be
Sept 1 at 7.39pm. Agreed.
DeleteAnon at 10.14 is a good example of the N S haters on here. He lies, and he is both stupid and ignorant. It is a toxic mix. There is so much that N S can be validly criticised for. I and others do that. But hate should have no place in this. IFSy and his new found besties need to sort themselves out. They need help.
ReplyDelete