Sunday, May 25, 2025

The poll so dark that it will make you wish the polling industry didn't exist

In the seventeen years I've been writing this blog, I've covered hundreds and probably thousands of opinion polls, but none have been as dark as this one.  In fact it's almost sinister that it occurred to anyone to ask these questions in the first place, but they obviously knew the target population better than the rest of us did.

In a Geocartography poll which seems to have been conducted among a representative sample of Israeli Jews (ie. excluding the one quarter of Israeli citizens who are not Jews, most of them Palestinian Arabs), 47% say that the Israeli army should kill all of the inhabitants of any city that it conquers.  That means half the general population thinks the genocide should go even further than it has.  So far, Israel has only exterminated a substantial minority of the inhabitants (or rather the former inhabitants) of cities like Gaza, Khan Yunis and Rafah.  

82% think Palestinians should be forcibly expelled from the Gaza Strip.  So just under half of the Jewish Israeli population are supportive of genocide, and more than four-fifths are in favour of ethnic cleansing, which is also forbidden under international law.  But even more extraordinary is that 56% support the forced expulsion of the Palestinians who live in Israel proper, ie. their fellow Israeli citizens who just happen to be of a different ethnicity and religion.  I was going to say that's equivalent to the far-right view in the UK that British citizens of Pakistani or Caribbean origin who were born here and whose parents or grandparents may well also have been born here should be "repatriated".  But in a sense it's even more bizarre and extreme than that, because of course Arab Israeli citizens are the indigenous population.  It's the Jewish population that is largely either composed of immigrants or of the descendants of immigrants (not exclusively, because a very small percentage of the Palestinian population was Jewish even in the late 19th century).  So it's the immigrant and immigrant-descended population that wants to be "cleansed" of Israel's indigenous population.

Unless someone can identify methodological flaws in this poll, it's pretty clear that the Israeli Jewish population has been radicalised to an even greater extent than the German population was under Nazi rule.  If you had been able to poll Germans in the early 1940s, there would undoubtedly have been overwhelming support for the forced expulsion of Jews from German-controlled parts of Europe, but I doubt if there would have been anything like 47% support for total extermination of the Jews.  There was a reason why the Holocaust was being carried out in secret.

But some genocides are only possible with the active support of the general population.  In Rwanda, for example, some of the genocide was committed on a DIY basis by ordinary Hutus who were radicalised by genocidal radio broadcasts.  That's not quite the case in Gaza - the genocide is being carried out by the IDF, not by Israeli civilians.  But there again, the IDF is a conscript army, and it perhaps wouldn't have been possible to get conscripts to follow orders to mass-murder Palestinian civilians if the genocidal mania among ordinary Israelis didn't match or exceed the intentions of the Israeli authorities.

So how on earth has this extreme radicalisation occurred?  Part of it must be the validation and normalisation of genocide that has been coming from foreign politicians and foreign media.  Keir Starmer must accept a share of the blame for saying at the outset that Israel had the right to commit genocidal acts such as the withholding of water from Gaza, and that the collective punishment of Palestinian civilians was a legitimate form of "self-defence".  The German government must accept a share of the blame for openly saying that Israel was quite right to bomb hospitals (and grotesquely, it was a senior government minister from the Green Party who said that).  The BBC must accept a share of the blame for doggedly defending Israel against each and every charge of genocide, and for deliberately and systematically sowing doubt about the credibility of sources giving accurate information about the plight of civilians in Gaza.

And yes, in his own small way, our old friend Stew Campbell of Wings Over Scotland must accept his share of the blame for arguing that elected Scottish politicians should be thrown into jail for expressing pro-Palestinian views.  Ironically, it's only in the last few days that Benjamin Netanyahu has fully caught up with Campbell by arguing that "Free Palestine" is the new "Heil Hitler".  It was more than a year ago that Campbell first demanded that the Green MSP Ross Greer should be jailed simply for using the words "victory to Palestine, victory to humanity".  

To the extent that a "war" is actually occurring in Gaza, the war aims of Israel are to exterminate and expel the Palestinian people, while the war aims of Palestine are to survive the extermination attempts and to resist expulsion.  The only conceivable "victory to Palestine" would therefore look like simple survival, which is doubtless why Greer added the words "victory to humanity".  Campbell is thus arguing that any belief that the Palestinian people have a right to survive and to exist should be a criminalised belief.  He thinks it is a belief that should land you in prison if you openly express it.

Campbell's main contribution to the debate on Gaza over the last week has been to repeatedly mock the claim that thousands of Palestinian babies are on the brink of starvation, presumably because he thinks the priority should be to massively reduce pressure on Israel to allow food, water and humanitarian aid through to the people who are dying.  He even went so far as to retweet Jake Wallis Simons, one of the most extreme UK-based pro-genocide propagandists, who has spent months openly denying that any famine in Gaza is occurring, in the hope of building support for Israel to be given free rein to continue committing mass murder.

Campbell also shared an article blasting the Doctor Who actor Ncuti Gatwa for supposedly "letting the BBC down" by refusing to read out the UK jury results in the Eurovision Song Contest.  Some would say it was in fact the BBC who let a known supporter of Palestine like Gatwa down by putting him in the indefensible position where he might have been compelled to read out the grotesque words "12 points go to Israel".  

You might think it odd that a self-styled 'free speech warrior' like Campbell ("JD Vance is right about free speech!" he told us the other day) would support compelled speech at the Eurovision Song Contest, and prison sentences for free speech at the Scottish Parliament.  But if so, you haven't been paying attention - when called out on his repugnant views about the Hillsborough disaster, Campbell's first resort was to threaten legal action to try to get the criticism censored out of existence.

I remain of the view that the Alba Party leadership's sycophantic hero-worship of a genocide apologist like Campbell is a stain on the party that will probably never wash away.  At the very least, it drains all credibility from Alba's claims to be standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people.

Some have argued that Israeli society will need to undergo a "de-Zionisation" process in the same way that German society was "de-Nazified" after the Second World War.  To me, that has always sounded like pie in the sky - Zionism has a secure future for as long as the US supports it, as will almost certainly always be the case.  But there may be a small grain of truth in the claim, because a population that wants to ethnically cleanse its fellow citizens and to exterminate its neighbours is not a population that has really reconciled itself to the liberal democratic system it has nominally lived under for the last eight decades.  If there is going to be any lasting solution, the Israeli population is going to have to be educated on basic truths such as "genocide is wrong" and "Palestinians are humans just like you are", and that will require a lot of remedial action from the foreign politicians and journalists who have helped create this disastrous climate.

55 comments:

  1. One of your best ever articles, James, and one of your most important. Thanks.

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  2. I agree that ALBA have to decide whether they are pro-Palestine or pro-Wings. It's gone past the point where they can be both.

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    1. Yes. Time to choose, Kenny and Tommy.

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    2. It’s too late. Any position they adopt now will have everything to do with political survival and nothing to do with opposition to genocide.

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  3. Israel is a UK ally and that says it all about Westminster values.

    Israel is a terrorist state.

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    1. Hamas are terrorists too, though for some reason you choose not to condemn them!

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    2. "Do you condemn Hamas?" wore thin after Palestinian deaths exceeded Israeli deaths by a 50-1 margin.

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    3. Anon troll at 3.08pm - for some reason you choose to lie and be a right arsehole. But hey that's par for the course from Britnat KC who supports Westminster supporting the IDF to massacre babies and children. Hamas have the right under international law to oppose their oppression and occupation by Israel but I do condemn any act that kills. Israel do that every day in the West Bank. Clearly Hamas and Israel were responsible for the killings on Oct 7 and I condemn them both.

      The root of the problem lies with the coloniser Israel and has done so since the UK washed its hands of the mess it created in the 1940s.

      Was the French resistance terrorists in the 1940s? Was the Polish resistance terrorists in the 1940s? What about the Norwegian resistance? The answer is yes if you are a Nazi. Are you a Britnat Nazi KC?

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    4. IFS,
      It’s good you condemn Hamas as well as Israel, as I do.
      However the rest of your post is nothing short of ridiculous.

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    5. The Britnat KC at 3.45pm condemns himself as a Britnat Nazi by his response.

      He also condemns himself as a liar.

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    6. I think your losing it IFS!

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    7. KC at 4.30pm - pity I cannae lose you or the SNP trolls that hang around SGP waiting for me to post. Sad sad people.

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  4. You might want to read Karl Jaspers on the Varieties of German Guilt which gives an unflinching of the different ways Gemans could be seen as guilty and responsibility. It applies now, I think

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  5. Everyone in this country would agree that what Israel is doing is awful.
    However it would appear criticism of Hamas terrorists is not allowed on this site.

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    1. " Everyone in this country ...." no they don't.

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    2. 3.39 did you even read what James posted above?

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    3. Anon at 3.39. What you say about criticism of Hamas is an outright lie. Feck off to WOS. You will feel more at home there.

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  6. It is good that more and more people are accepting that Scotland is England's colony ( de facto or otherwise ). Only when you have correctly identified the problem can you hope to come up with the correct solution.

    The SNP have been wasting our time for decades with this just one more mandate stuff - vote SNP. The section 30 gold standard was just a time wasting dead end. You can make up your own mind whether the SNP politicians who punted this for so many long years knew that to be the case or not. I made up my mind a long time ago.

    Reform have stated they will NEVER agree a sec 30. Labour have ignored devolution when they sold out Scottish fishing rights proving once again that devolution is just a convenient cloak to hide the reality of Scotland's colonial status.

    Stephen Flynn SNP MP had a wee whimper on the Peston show on Wednesday about Scottish fishing and Holyrood not being involved. That's it. That's all you ever get from SNP politicians. A wee whimper.

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    1. So IFS back spouting his colony nonsense!
      Dear oh dear, embarrassing stuff.

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    2. Anon at 4.33 - you repeatedly deny Scotland's colony status, and tell others that they are embarrassing. You are either new to the debate, which is perfectly okay, as we all start somewhere, or you simply can't grasp the argument. There is so much evidence out there which clearly shows that Scotland is a colony. The only advice I can offer is that you read as much as you can about it and have a good think. Otherwise you will continue to be the one making a fool of himself.

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    3. Absolute garbage.
      Scotland is one of the four countries that make up our great United Kingdom. Not perfect by any means, but still one of the best countries in the world.
      You come across as someone who’s allowed yourself to be brainwashed by the likes of IFS with this colony bull. It’s absolutely bonkers.

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    4. Anon at 6.10pm is that British Nationalist prick KC who promised to go away and never post on SGP again. But like all these people they never keep a promise and love to lie.

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    5. KC at 6.10pm saysthe UK is: - "Not perfect by any means......."

      Go on KC tell us all what is not perfect about the " great United Kingdom". This should be good for a laugh.

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    6. Hey KC I'll give you a starter on how the UK is not perfect - 30% of children in England live in poverty. Or do you think that is just fine and dandy?

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  7. James says:- "So its the immigrant and immigrant - descended population that wants to be " cleansed " of Israel's indigenous population."

    A statement that describes a classic feature of colonisation.

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  8. It's often said about the Arab - Israeli conflict that unless you are there you simply don't understand it. That 47% figure backs that up. For half of the Jewish population of Israel to actively support clear genocide takes unbelievably deep rooted hatred instilled over generations.
    On the other hand, democratically elected Hamas have official policies towards the destruction of the state of Israel and the murder of Jews around the world.
    If they both had a nuclear arsenal.... doesn't bear thinking about.

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    1. "democratically elected Hamas"

      That's a bit of a stretch. They've exceeded their term of office by what, fifteen years? Not even the Alba NEC went that far. They also effectively usurped the role of the president, which they were never elected to.

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    2. Yes, that's a fair point and their popularity has lessened recently too. However, Gazan residents were overwhelmingly supportive of the Oct 7th attacks (71%) and 95% did not accept that war crimes were committed. 73% reject the idea of a lasting peace through a 2 state solution. These are big numbers, and with the poll in your article, show the depth of hatred on both sides.

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    3. Do you have a link to that poll? My first objection would be that opposing a two-state solution is not synonymous with "rejecting the idea of lasting peace" - because there's also the option of a one-state solution with equal citizenship rights and the elimination of apartheid.

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    4. PCPSR polls Nos 89 and 90.

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    5. OK, I've found both of those polls, and unless I'm missing something, there's no result suggesting Palestinians "reject the idea of a lasting peace". You seem to be conflating support for a two-state solution with support for a lasting peace. Those are two very different concepts.

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    6. I think you read that bit wrong, or at least, not how I meant it.
      You're reading 'rejected the idea of a lasting peace through a 2 state solution' a bit like 'the SNP reject the idea of independence through an imminent referendum' and concluding that they've given up on independence altogether, which of course they haven't. They believe there are other, more realistic routes to indy. Equally the Palestinians who were surveyed overwhelmingly rejected the two state solution as a likely route to lasting peace, not the idea of lasting peace entirely. However, in the same poll 60% responded that continued armed struggle was the only way forward they supported.
      Anyway, the original point was that hatred is so ingrained that rational responses are thin on the ground. For example, 54% believed taking civilians hostage was legitimate and when asked about war crimes and atrocities, a third of Gazans thought international law allowed cutting off utility services. The same proportion thought international law allowed the killing of women and children in their own homes (the latter was the actual question posed in reference to Oct 7th).
      These exceptionally hardened attitudes and Israeli acts amounting to genocide are pretty much impossible for us to comprehend but are, apparently, the normality of the Arab / Israeli conflict.

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    7. No, I didn't misunderstand anything. You're trying very hard to "both sides" this, but there's nothing in those two polls that would indicate the same kind of genocidal attitudes on the Palestinian side that exist on the Israeli side. Possibly if a different question had been asked those attitudes might have come out, but that's untested speculation and it's a moot point anyway. Only one side is committing genocide and only one side has the means to commit genocide. The problem right now is on one side only. Not on both.

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    8. That's true of course, James, that only Israel has the means and international backing to commit genocide, which they are definitely doing. There's no doubt about that. Sunak's 'we want you to win' is a more appalling statement with every passing day.
      But, your blogpost was about a poll of Israeli attitudes. The ones I referenced (and by the way, I think they are very well done, EU funded, not for profit, meticulous methodology) are about Palestinian attitudes. The point we are both making is that these attitudes are extreme, entrenched and unfathomable from our point of view. But as I said, we aren't there. The question I ask myself repeatedly through all this is 'What does it take to hate that much?' The recent story of the murdered paediatrican and her nine children is so utterly sickening that you despair of humanity. The fact that apparently, according to your referenced poll, nearly half of Israelis believe it was a good thing makes it worse. Then there's the tacit approval of the international community through inaction too.
      Equally, the horribly graphic video of festival goers in a bloodied heap having been machine gunned at close range while attempting to hide behind a drinks bar and 70+% of Gazans were supportive?
      Israeli genocide must be stopped at once. Every day our leaders ignore it they support it but the two sides despise each other beyond words. That's the starting point for any long term peace.

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    9. "The point we are both making is that these attitudes are extreme, entrenched and unfathomable from our point of view."

      Sigh. No, Alec, that is not a point that we are both making. That is a point that you, and you alone, are making. I, by contrast, have refuted your point and explained why it is wrong, and why the Palestinian polls you have supplied fail to support your argument.


      If you're going to 'both sides' this and claim that public attitudes are similar in both populations, you'll have to find a better poll than you've found so far.

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    10. Alec: Comment deleted. Having failed to browbeat me into allowing you to misrepresent my own position, you've now resorted to all you have left - mindless insults. Take it elsewhere.

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    11. Alec Skinner says that although the SNP have given up on the idea of an imminent referendum they haven't given up on independence altogether. Alec is correct in that "altogether" can be described as in some far away timescale in the future when there is > 70% support for independence and everyone alive today are dead.

      If that counts as a definition of a party that supports independence then count me out.

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    12. ifs - you always count yourself out. It save you having to do anything.

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    13. Troll at 2.46pm - all you do is troll.

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    14. Anon at 2.46pm you are either that poor excuse for a human being and king of the snidey one liners Alec Lomax or you are a tribute act.

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  9. The brutal fact is that settler states fail unless they physically smash indigenous populations. USA and Australia succeed. North Ireland is failing. Israel seems to longer feel the need to pretend that it does not see it's situation in this way - thanks to Trump etc al.
    The irony of Israel as the perpetrator of fascistic ethnic policy is stunning.

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  10. Murder is murder whether by an individual, terrorist group or a state. Those trying to justify their murderous behaviour are just wrong at all levels. Whether that is by taking hostages and killing, bombing hospitals invasion or using starvation as the weapon of terror.

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    1. And 50,000 murders are rather more important than a couple of dozen hostages, no matter how desperately Israel's apologists try to find a moral equivalence.

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  11. Israel is now a fascist genocidal state.
    There is absolutely no longer any doubt about that fact.

    The Nazis have been reborn and are now based in Tel Aviv.

    Time the ICJ put the final nail in Israel's festering coffin, by confirming their genocide in Gaza.

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  12. Concerning online press piece from Australia reporting on the matter of Sir Keir Starmer, the arson attack on him, and the allegation that being gay he was involved with Ukrainian rent boys, thereby raising the issue of his vulnerability to being compromised. https://cairnsnews.org/2025/05/22/media-protects-their-gay-hero-starmer-as-third-rent-boy-appears-in-court/

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  13. If Starmer is compromised due to the allegations of gay sex with Ukrainian rent boys this could have disastrous consequences for Starmer and his government. No doubt we will have to wait and see how it all plays out. Election perchance?

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  14. I heard it was a Russian and an American How will Trump and Putin get out of that one?
    It was a web site in the Seychelles but had connections with Australia. All true. Cross my heart….

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  15. also at the beginning of the current killing Netanyahu called the palestinians "amalek" ... which is an old testament reference, which you should look up

    - the amalekites were to be utterly annihilated without mercy

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  16. but shouldn't diversity and multiculturalism solve all

    maybe the gazans should try to make their case to the Soft Noes of the new palestinians among the IDF

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  17. I've now had to delete two anti-semitic comments on this thread (and I mean real anti-semitism, not the fake accusations that Israel's apologists make on a daily basis). Whoever it is that's posting that stuff, please stop.

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  18. I see J S is devoting time and media exposure to challenging the negative comments being posted about Sarwar. Sarwar opposes and prevents my legal right of self determination as a Scot. He supports that right being exercised elsewhere. That is discrimination. I don’t care what specific label people want to attach to his behaviour. I do know the impact his behaviour has on my life. J S should devote his energy to promoting Independence. Leave the unionists to fight among themselves. I thought J S has done well quietly defusing and sidelining the gender nonsense. Use your media exposure to promote Indy John, not to defend multi millionaire hypocrite and liar Sarwar.

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    1. Anon at 5.59. Off you go. You are a Drum bashing supporter of genocide. Your village misses you.

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    2. So anon@6:03pm thinks anybody that doesn’t support independence is a supporter of genocide!!!

      Perhaps the time has come for him/her to seek psychiatric help!

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    3. Anon at 6.16. No I don’t think that. Stop lying. But I know that you are. And you don’t deny it. Off you go. Silly billy.

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    4. 7.35 you are just as annoying on this blog as that other loser KC. Try giving it a rest with your trademark silly billies and off you goes and widen your range to proper sentences. Or is that beyond you?

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