If I was a Scottish Labour supporter, though, the result from the poll that would terrify me is the one about expectations: did voters expect Labour to be less sleazy than they turned out to be? In Scotland, there's a significantly greater percentage of people who simply didn't see the Labour sleaze coming -
Which of the following best describes how you feel the new Labour government has performed on the issue of upholding standards in public office? (All GB respondents)
I expected them to behave well but they have behaved worse than I expected: 38%
I expected them to behave badly but they have behaved better than I expected: 3%
I expected them to behave well and they have done: 15%
I expected them to behave badly and they have done: 25%
Which of the following best describes how you feel the new Labour government has performed on the issue of upholding standards in public office? (Respondents in Scotland only)
I expected them to behave well but they have behaved worse than I expected: 46%
I expected them to behave badly but they have behaved better than I expected: 3%
I expected them to behave well and they have done: 15%
I expected them to behave badly and they have done: 17%
Labour only won in Scotland by the narrow margin of 35% to 30% in July, and if that was at a point where the public had a much higher estimation of them, it's not hard to see why they now seem to have fallen behind the SNP. There also has to be a question mark over whether they can regain the advantage over the next couple of years, because once a good reputation is lost, it's very difficult to recover it.
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Surprised there wasn't a
ReplyDelete"I neither expected them to behave neither particularly well or badly and they have behaved neither particularly well or badly"
Or words to that effect. Not sure the poll covers all options very well.
Yeh there is no "meh" option
DeleteIf folk are turning off from Labour then the question then becomes: where do they take their vote?
ReplyDeleteI'd keep a close eye on which voters—unionists vs. nationalists—leave Labour in disgust. Both groups matter. We need the Yessers to come over to our side, and stay.
The unionists, meanwhile, will determine who, if anyone, replaces Labour as the primary party opposed to independence. We've already seen this change in recent times: from Labour to Tory back to Labour again. There's a *lot* of tactical voting now among unionists. They go where the wind blows, and it's moments like this when the wind changes its direction.
Eat your cereal.
ReplyDeleteA lot can happen in two years. Labour already look a bit jaded although the SNP are seen as extremely tired too. Looks a bit like a very cynical electorate.
ReplyDeleteI suspect a low turnout at this stage.
It's sad to see optimism gone from politics. Whether agreeing with independence or not, in 2007-2015 another Scotland was being talked about. It now feels like managed decline and a more unequal society (and less caring). There are of course good stories out there too but I sense less communal spirit among our people, if our people can even be used anymore.
I'd extend the period of hope through 2019 as well. All Under One Banner marches were massive that year, Edinburgh especially where there was something like 100k of us in Holyrood Park. That was the peak of "Nicola has a cunning plan / wait until you see the whites of their eyes…"
DeleteThen Covid/Lockdown and the thrill was gone.
I put the blame in two phases:
2014: Obviously Scotland would have been transformed if we'd actually voted Yes.
2016+: And just as obviously, Scotland was more ready for it after Brexit. We would have won indyref2 if Nicola had just gone ahead and held it. That's the mandate we were looking for.
Disappointment after disappointment will scunner everyone. That's where we are now, with no end in sight. Managed decline for the SNP and Scotland stifling in the sinking British state. Where's our emergency exit? Where's our hope? And where oh where's our anger that it's come to this?
OK Anas.
Delete"Where's our anger ?" You"ll find that 'Independence for Scotland ' and Peter A Bell have cornered the market there, directing their bile towards others in the Indy movement who disagree with them.
DeleteAnon@11:22,
DeleteI agree, It’s all desperately disappointing and very difficult to be optimistic at this time.
Sure things will get better in the future but strongly suspect we’re years away from Indy.
Lomax, the king of snidey one liners comes out of the shadows and actually posts two and a bit lines this time. Unlike you Lomax I have been proven right about Sturgeon and her gang. You can disagree all you want but the facts speak for themselves.
DeleteThe likes of Kenny Farq and scot Labour luvvies fail to grasp is a great many of the "goodies" in terms of people before profit, helping the ordinary working family get on, were part of the indy movement and hoped for something not just for themselves but all other Scots. The national identity and common weal mentality was intrinsically linked.
DeleteWe've just had a labour landslide like no other (albeit on a low popularity if public vote) and where is the hope and zeal for change? It's all the same platitudes.
Many of our high streets are decayed and empty, I'm looking for a party that wants to improve the lot of the ordinary family as a priority, cultural events for the ordinary person, clean streets and a sense of believing and belonging in Scotland. I don't see that from any party at the moment.
Be fair to Labour, they are changing things - such as cutting the winter fuel allowance for the elderly.
DeleteAlex Lorax has it in a nutshell.
DeleteAlec Lorax 😂 Cannae even spell his own name when posting as anon. Lomax the king of the snidey one liners peppering SGP and other sites with his valuable 🤣 contributions.
DeleteYou lot? As opposed the the Brit nationalists Brexit supporting lot?
ReplyDeleteThere are three signatories to the SNP accounts that are held to be responsible for their accuracy and honesty. Two are a married couple Sturgeon and Murrell and the other Beattie the Treasurer. How on earth is Murrell charged with embezzlement and the other two are not?
ReplyDeleteSadly, the fact that Bain, the Lord Advocate who was appointed by Sturgeon is in charge ( even though Bain says she has recused herself from this investigation) of all prosecutions also attends the Scottish cabinet as legal adviser to the Scottish government can create the perception of a conflict of interest. Especially since the current FM Swinney was Sturgeon's deputy and chief cover up man of her wrong doings re the Salmond persecution.
Both Yousaf and Swinney could have taken the appropriate action to remove this obvious perception of a conflict of interest but have not. Why not?
Did Swinney never ask the Treasurer Beattie what this new accounting term " woven in to the accounts" means and where did it come from?
Did Swinney never ask Sturgeon where is the " ring fenced " indyref2 money?
Just who is holding up this investigation?
The justice system is becoming part of this story.
DeleteIt needs to get a move on. My, and im sure many others, confidence in it is at risk.
Idiots like you who keep trying to muddy the waters and be judge and the executioner. You certainly are not neutral or have an "innocent until proven guilty" stance. Are you intentionally trying to interfere in due process?
ReplyDeleteYou are the idiot who's couldnae even carry out the simple task of putting your post in the right place and making it clear who you are referring to.
DeleteI asked a series of questions based on facts. No different from many others. Did you ask them if they were trying to interfere in due process?
Here is another question for you - where is the £600k Indyref2 'ring fenced' funds? I know where Indyref2 has gone - kicked in to touch by the SNP.
Don’t waste your time on Idiot for Scotland. His stupidity is matched only by his vitriol. Nasty wee keyboard warrior.
DeleteAnon troll at 3.39pm - got that egg off your face yet?
DeleteMr angry WGD . Eggs are good for you. Unlike your bile. As I stated you have self proclaimed yourself as judge and executioner and have all the facts at your sole disposal. Narcissistic behaviour is never pretty which you have proven. Still guilty until proven as they say.
DeleteAnon at 3.49pm - give it a rest with your lies and your illiterate comments. Try thinking before posting. You can state what you want but it disnae make it true.
DeleteAnon says :- " you have proclaimed yourself as judge and executioner". Sturgeon may get convicted but she will not be executed. Capital punishment was outlawed many decades ago.
Eggs may well be good for you but have you wiped it off your face yet from when you made a complete fool of yourself.
Anon liar. Eggs stuck on your face will stink after a while. Now stop lying. I have not " self proclaimed myself as judge and executioner". I also have never claimed to " have all the facts at my sole disposal ". You can state all you want but it disnae make it true. Executions do not happen in Scotland. Where are you Saudi Arabia? China?
DeleteHappy to declare you are a bare faced liar.
I also note that you have no answer to any of the questions I raised.
Everyone who disagrees with you are barefaced liars in your view Mr angry. Your invective against the former FM etc while a police investigation is ongoing is trying to muddy the waters or just cause bother. Intentionally it seems to me. What are you so personally involved in this? You must be very close to someone in this?Seek their counsel they may suggest you need a cold Bath.
DeleteAnon lying troll - that egg on your face must be pretty stinky by now.
DeleteIdiot for Scotland is a sad troll, it really is that simple, just like him. He has no interest in Indy. Desperate life. Best ignored.
DeleteAnon lying troll says " best ignored " Well you diddy why not take your own advice and stop trolling me. PS you ain't very good at trolling.
DeleteScrape that stinky egg off your face and follow your own advice. But you won't because you are an ignorant troll who never has any arguments just ad hom attacks - the calling card of a standard low life troll.
Poor wee IFS. A fetish for eggs it seems Each to their own
DeleteDo we all owe a duty of care to IFS? Discuss.
DeleteMy theory is that people don't shift without political events bringing their attention to the question of independence. That proved to be the case in 2014, and Brexit gave us a boost as well. Nicola and Swinney squandered all this, of course, so now there is no event on the horizon and Scots are indifferent.
ReplyDeleteLabour's still got a way to go to make Scots angry with them, as we were with the Cameron and Johnson. There's a tipping point when suddenly the floor comes out from beneath you. When that happens, indy is the obvious and best alternative.
You know, since the SNP has lost all interest in pushing the cause, we're stuck with waiting on the union collapsing for us…
It might not be the dramatic event you’re looking for, but I wonder if the fact of a Labour government might not prove to be a final straw of sorts.
DeleteIn 2014 Scotland voted somewhat grudgingly to stay in the union. At the time I got a sense of many Scots effectively saying, “Alright UK, I’ll give you one last chance.” Ever since then we have had the Tories ruling the UK.
Now, for the first time since we spurned independence, we get to see what a Labour government can do. So far, it’s not been very impressive. Especially given that the electorate was promised “CHANGE”.
If it continues like this I wonder how many of those grudging No voters from 2014 might finally start to think that the last chance the UK was given has been squandered. If Tweedledum and Tweedledee have both proven to be incapable of changing things for the better, and the only viable alternatives at Westminster are giving the Tories another go or Farage & co., then perhaps at long last we’ll see enough additional Scots prepared to give Indy a chance.
Of course I don’t like that it’s taking this long, but electoral cycles tend to be slow. Most folk aren’t thinking about the constitution as often as we do. My one plea to the SNP would be to start making the case for Indy on every single issue that comes up and keep hammering away at it.
As we head towards the next Westminster election, presumably in 2028 or 2029, we will have been told “Now is not the time” for over a decade. Even the spurious “once in a generation” argument will be wearing very thin by then. Yes consistently nestled in the mid to high 50s would make life very uncomfortable for the UK parties. So until then we all need to persuade as many people as we can that real change will only come with Indy. And don’t wait for the SNP to do it for you.
Problems with the idea that seeing a Labour government in action will make clear the hopelessness of the UK:
Delete- Most of us have experienced a crappy Labour government before, and those who were too young to remember it in 2014 were the group that voted Yes anyway
- No one expected much from Starmer's government in the first place
- If the shocks of Brexit and PM BJ weren't enough to decisively move the dial, it's hard to see that a pretty rubbish but probably not catastrophic Labour government will do the trick
But I agree with your last point. It doesn't look like events are going to do our job for us, so the campaign has to be proactive.
Ironically it was hope that took the SNP to power, not anger.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we'll get anywhere with anger. And this hoping the UK goes so bad it lifts Scots out their slumber? That's no way to bring positive change and no motivation. What country needs another to fail to give itself confidence? If that's what it takes we don't deserve it.
"because once a good reputation is lost, it's very difficult to recover it"
ReplyDeleteSadly that applies to the SNP as well. Trust in them has taken a massive hit in recent years and despite the usual comments portraying John Swinney in the same light as the second coming of Jesus very little has changed recently.
No new ideas to turn the Parties fortunes around were announced at Conference and it seems like they're just pinning all their hopes on Labour becoming more unpopular rather than making an effort to increase their own popularity.
The SNP are now just acting like a standard political party rather than the political wing of an independence movement. Just wanting to win elections and power for the sake of winning and the benefits/freebies it brings to the party and its political representatives.
DeleteSwinney is seen as a steady eddy but most people don't think of Swinney when they're thinking about the SNP and they're reputation. His name won't be mentioned by most. SNP is bigger than the FM personnel. It's the brand after 20 years..it catches up with any party.
Delete"Just wanting to win elections"
DeleteThey don't even seem to be even trying to do that anymore.
Any political party who suffers the kind of electoral defeat the SNP suffered in the General Election tend to hit the panic button and immediately reflect, reform and try introduce new ideas to engage with voters. Acting quickly and firing on all cylinders to change the narrative away from the defeat and onto what they're going to do now etc.
But there's been no sense of urgency and they're acting as if it wasn't a big deal and that there's no reason to do anything differently. It's mad.
Fair comment anon at 4.38pm.
DeleteThough the issue is they're not even being urgent in an effort to get themselves re-elected.
DeleteIFS responding to himself!! Get a life.
DeleteI can't say I expected much from a UK Labour government under Starmer.
ReplyDeleteThis is the party who produced a report in 2017, in response to the Tories contemplating removing the winter fuel allowance, saying that 4,000 pensioners would die. Now Labour ignore this.
Not surprising when you consider the party is led by someone who was happy for Israel to prevent any food, water, fuel getting in to Gaza. What's 4,000 dead pensioners when you are ok with 40,000 dead Palestinians.
Once Labour removed the red rose with the Union flag you knew what they had become. That was the change Starmer and his right wing cronies were going on about.
No wonder more people chose not to vote than voted for Labour.
The monstrous war monger Netahanyu in his recent speech is now trying to kick off a new civil war in Lebanon while his troops continue to murder in Gaza and the West Bank. The USA/UK/EU have truly created a monster that is now out of control.
ReplyDelete