I've seen some dreadful mainstream media takes on polls, but the Sunday Times' write-up of their new Norstat poll, the first full-scale Scottish poll since the general election, is particularly appalling. What obviously ought to be the headline story here is that there is absolutely no honeymoon for Labour whatsoever. Labour won in Scotland by five percentage points last month, and I would have fully expected at least a temporary bounce putting them ten, fifteen, perhaps even twenty points ahead. That would be the typical pattern when a party returns to power after a long period, but it simply hasn't happened. The SNP have instead trimmed Labour's lead in Westminster voting intentions to three points. If this as good at it gets for Labour, they have major problems.
Scottish voting intentions for the next UK general election (Norstat):
Labour 32%
SNP 29%
Reform UK 12%
Conservatives 12%
Liberal Democrats 8%
Greens 5%
Of even greater concern for Labour, though, is that the SNP have a slender lead in Holyrood voting intentions. Again, if Labour can't take the outright lead at this stage of the electoral cycle, when exactly would they be expected to do it? What moment in time is ever going to be more favourable than this?
Scottish Parliament constituency ballot:
SNP 33%
Labour 30%
Conservatives 12%
Reform UK 9%
Liberal Democrats 8%
Greens 5%
Scottish Parliament regional list ballot:
SNP 28%
Labour 28%
Conservatives 14%
Reform UK 9%
Greens 8%
Liberal Democrats 7%
Alba 5%
Seats projection: SNP 41, Labour 40, Conservatives 18, Greens 10, Liberal Democrats 8, Reform UK 8, Alba 4
The general election result was supposed to be the springboard for a return to Labour dominance at Holyrood, but it doesn't look much like that at the moment. I suspect the Sunday Times were bitterly disappointed and probably surprised by these numbers but decided to doggedly stick with their predetermined narrative anyway by headlining their own speculation that Labour would still be able to form a government from second place with Tory support. Well, maybe, but this is not an election to Aberdeen City Council we're talking about here. If Labour do a deal with the Tories, however informally, to freeze out the 'winning' party, it's going to be noticed. It would be fraught with danger for them and would be an inherently unstable situation. Good luck to them pitching for anti-Tory votes in the future if they go down that road.
And perhaps more to the point is that there's no reason to assume that the real election result will be as 'good' as this poll suggests for Labour given that they should be at their peak of popularity right now and may be suffering from mid-term blues by the time 2026 comes around.
It looks like the results from supplementary questions are also favourable for the SNP. John Swinney's party are more trusted than Labour on all policy areas other than the economy, and even on the latter the SNP trail by a trivial two points. So it may be that the underlying position reflects the headline numbers.
It's rare for the seats projection of any poll to show Alba on course for seats, so the Alba leadership will understandably leap on this, but I have to once again point out that Norstat have a track record of reporting inflated Alba vote shares, which means that if Norstat show Alba on 5%, it's not unreasonable to assume that the real figure is 2% or 3%. I'd be very surprised if any telling breakthrough has really occurred yet.
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Interesting at a time when labour is supposed to be on its honeymoon period. Still their determination to impose further Tory austerity will or should give an awakening call to the I vote labour cos my granny did. Independence parties have to go in hard to the Unionists.I am fed up with ALBA”s leadership apparent willingness to side with them. They must change tack. Still the political poll is from the usual unionists companies so I suspect labour is in an even worse state.
ReplyDeleteNorstat was Panelbase and I think they have had at least two other polls within the last 18 months with Alba at 5% which weren’t backed up by any other pollsters or election results
ReplyDeleteAnd talk about being tone deaf. While we are all facing a huge increase in energy bills this winter, and the SNP have meekly endorsed the UK Government's CUT to the Winter Fuel OAP lifeline by cutting it from £300 to £0: "eat or heat, it's your choice" they pat themselves on the back with this piece of incredibly badly timed nonsense:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.snp.org/a-greener-more-prosperous-scotland-how-the-snp-is-delivering-on-our-clean-energy-ambitions/
"A greener, more prosperous Scotland: how the SNP is delivering on our clean energy ambitions"
Only for those who survive this coming winter.
That was a reply to my comment comparing the 2007 Holyrood election with an SNP 1 seat win over Labour leading to the 2011 result and the 2014 Indy Ref. It seems to have disappeared :-(
DeleteOh here it is, looks like a glitch.
Delete2007 seats - SNP 47, Lab 46, Con 17, Lib 16, Grn 2
Poll seats - SNP 41, Lab 40, Con 18, Lib 8, Grn 10, rUK 8, Alb 4
The 2007-11 SNP Minority Government was very successful and popular, leading to an overall majority in 2011 and Indy Ref in 2014.
I can't see Lab or Con allowing that to happen again! The SNP conference from Friday 30th August to Sunday 1st September 2024 needs to be realistic, open, honest, correcting mistakes, reforming. To try to do a 2011; overall majority and NOT dependent on the economically illiterate greens.
The chances of that with the stupidity of the upper crust of the SNP, are a million to one against. Instead they are offering courses to members on the virtues and advantages of navel-gazing. "Hold hands now, form a circle: Ahh ooom."
The funding to SG is being cut to reflect the UK govt decision to cut WFA. The choice of the Scottish electorate to vote in a huge majority of unionist labour M Ps to Westminster has consequences. This is one of them. To suggest this amounts to endorsement is disingenuous. You were warned of labours general intentions towards Scotland before the election. They are now looking at tuition fees and prescription costs. They will in due course look at the bedroom tax. These are the consequences of how people voted or abstained in the Holyrood elections. None of it is a surprise. The message you should be getting out is that the Labour Unionist govt in Westminster is directly responsible. Instead? SNP baaad.
DeleteHolyrood elections should say General Election.
DeleteKey difference between 2007 and now: There was considerable more willingness for cooperation between different Political Parties.
DeleteThe SNP back then was able to run a minority Government effectively by having discussions with other Parties and finding common ground and/or compromise on various issues. That wouldn't be possible today as all unionist parties are seen as the enemy and on the flip side they see the SNP as the enemy.
A similar kind of result in 2026 would result in a mess.
"There was considerable more willingness for cooperation between different Political Parties."
DeleteIndeed. Even with Dugdale and Davidson there was some willingness. Sarwar and Ross no chance, though depends on who takes over from Ross.
Anon at 1.13 am.
Delete"The message you should be getting out is that the Labour Unionist govt in Westminster is directly responsible. Instead? SNP baaad."
It's this type of absolute ivory tower hands over ears la la la la la "SNP is perfect" attitude that COULD lead to the SNP being trounced even further in 2026 and reduced to even less of a rump that the above poll suggests.
Unless the SNP and its supporters face up to the reality that the SNP has to change a massive amount, reform, regroup and respond to its previous stupidity, the SNP are off the table for the next election, and so is Indy.
If you don't want an SNP majority government in 2026 then do continue with your self-satisfied smug "Labour bad, SNP good" mantra. I, like many, don't give a fig leaf about Labour, only Indy.
Do not distort my statement. The level of incompetence by SNP over the past five or so years is staggering, which makes your attempt to blame them for Westminster actions all the more perverse. It’s an SNP bad narrative for something Westminster did. Little wonder the Indy movement is so fractured.
DeleteIt's a difficult argument to turn to the SNP's advantage though.
DeleteThe Tory Government who was in power for 14 years was incompetent so we voted them out of power.
The SNP Government who will have been in power for 19 years in 2026 has been incompetent… what should we do!?
It's a much more difficult task to ask the electorate to vote to maintain the status quo when the status quo feels shit.
Anon at 1.03. I wonder if the better question is what should we not do? Enabling unionist parties and further disempowering the only party that does at least try to better our lot domestically is what we should not do, but it is precisely what many of those on here advocate. It punishes the people of Scotland. It’s a quandary and at present I am uncertain what to do. The SNP has changed from a grass roots Democratic Party to a party run by an entryist cabal that absolutely does not put independence anywhere near the top of its agenda. It is also hopelessly incompetent in government. We are being forced to choose between that and the rancid corrupt undemocratic racist forces of unionism. It’s an appalling choice. There is currently no credible alternative Indy party. Depressing.
DeleteIt's frustrating as at present unionists have a simpler message to the electorate and we know from experience clear simple messaging resonates more at election time.
DeleteThey can just say: The SNP has been in power for too long, vote for change.
The obvious counter to that is: The union has failed us, vote for change via independence.
But when we have an SNP no longer pushing for independence and SNP members advocating to put indy on the back burner due to the General Election result what can we do?
Anon @ 1.13am. Your post is pretty silly. How people voted in Scotland is irrelevant. If every one of the 57 MPs in Scotland was SNP it would not make any difference. Labour would still win the UK GE and do what they want to do. The SNP would do nothing in response except moan and whine.
DeleteAnon at 12.18 you still miss the point. The obsession with Labour is just as bad as the GE obsession with Tories.
DeleteThe Scottish Parliament is devolved - and so is the Winter Fuel Payment. The SNP can protest as much as they like "it's Westminster's fault", all it needs is for Labour in Scotland to take advantage of the open goal the stupid SNP have given them. From the Record which has a whole load of local titles AND open access to the BBC and STV:
"Anas Sarwar says he will work with SNP for 'more generous' Scottish Winter Fuel Payment"
It's a GOAAALLL. Only in the SNP echo-chamber does their blaming Westminster work. And yes, we know it's one block grant and if it's reduced the ScotGov have to make cuts. But it IS up to them where, and Labour in Scotland can exploit that.
Welcome to the world outside any echo chamber.
Anon at 11.45. Whoooosh. Talk about missing the point.
DeleteIf those seat projections are accurate just how effective would the day-to-day Governance at Holyrood be?
ReplyDeleteIt's one thing to band together to keep out the SNP, but it's another thing entirely to get Bills and a Budget passed.
True Alba have to change their tune, they don't have to drag the movement down by trying to attack the SNP so doing the unionists work for them, I was one of those founder members, after my initial range with NS, I could see that what they have to do is state there case not shoot others, the same may go for the rest, but Alba should of taken the higher ground and constructed on what they would do and bring the issues into debate instead of feeding a unionists media circus. It's really been a wasted year from Alba it's put a lot of people of , and given most of their policies are more grounded it's a disservice to the movement to squander them in a melee with social media with the rest of the movement. The best course of action would have been to ignore it , who cares about the greens or Bella Caledonia? Better to have just aimed there message to the public at large. Also they should have embraced SALVO and got a different leader with Alex as part of the team, maybe even as a co leader like the greens which is a good setup for a political party I think.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just Alba though, it's easy to blame those "attacking the SNP" but the vast exodus of members from the SNP in recent years indicate that there's a larger problem at play.
DeleteAccording to the SNP's latest accounts Party membership was 64,525 at the end of last year (down from 74,889 the previous year and massively down from the high of 125,000 in 2019).
People criticise Alba for "sowing division" but looking at those kind of numbers it could be said that they have a point in what they're saying. If criticisms were taken onboard and addressed then the SNP might not be in such a dire situation today. Is it not better to highlight and tackle issues head on rather than pretending they don't exist?
Some of the exodus were those that joined when the movement was in positive mindset. Too many carried along on the the wave leading to the referendum. Folk like to join when others are too. Maybe shows that they were actually less committed to the idea of independence as we see when obstacles come along.
DeleteWith those kind of numbers leaving though if I was amongst the SNP Leadership I'd be asking myself: Why have so many people left? What can we do to prevent more from leaving? Is there anything we can do to entice those who've left to potentially re-join?
DeleteBut instead it's largely just been ignored. Sometimes just carrying on with a 'everything is fine, all is well' mindset isn't the best approach.
Yeah not sure they do common sense these days.
DeleteSeems to me that a way forward may at last be emerging. 1 - Build the convention as advocated by Believe in Scotland. 2 - Vote SNP to keep the unionists out. 3 - Never, ever let the lame careerists of the SNP get their hands on the leadership of our independence movement again.
ReplyDeleteEvents will mean that it wont be that simple but we have a road !
In reality though the careerists of the SNP are still in charge of the SNP so that's unlikely to happen. So unless some unexpected radical changes are pushed through at the next Conference very little will change.
DeleteWho are these careerists?
DeleteWho will 'lead' the independence movement ? Wii they be elected ?
DeleteSebasian:
DeleteColin McAllister
Jeanette Campbell
Ewan Crawford
Leanne Dobson
Jennie Gollan
and I can't be botherer pasting the other 10. These are all people that probably get paid £120 grand a year with a government pension superannuation and run the Scottish government.
The Sunday Times might be biased, not as biased as this blog though.
ReplyDeleteRubbish.
DeleteNot rubbish at all.
DeleteRubbish. Two rubbishes beats one not rubbish. Over to you.
DeleteEvery thing all ok for SNP then.
ReplyDeleteNothing to fear from Labour at all.
Independence is already the settled will of the people.
All the SNP have to do is put independence at heart of next election and nothing else according to AS.
Job done…easy peasy…independence coming in 2026
That’s what some would have us believe LOL
DeleteWhile the SNP has self-appointing delegates the only ones voting at "conference" which is only for those who can afford it, it's never going to change.
ReplyDeleteIt needs OMOV - one member one vote. And it's completely capable of doing so - it has that for any leader or depute election, and for constituency candidate election. It just doesn't want to.
OMOV - or fade into history with single issues.
I agree but this is because time plays on the side of the unionists, these delays to another indie vote by NS etc have given the corrupt media time to get their venom across and stall the opinion polls at 48% yes or at least below the 50% mark, giving the uk gov the ammunition to say scotland dont want indie.
ReplyDeleteDon't think Labour will do a deal with the Tories, think it will probably be Lib Dems , they are now the 3rd party at WM .
ReplyDeleteThe issue with that though is Labour + Lib Dems with these numbers is short of a majority.
DeleteEven if you added in the Greens they would still fall short.
Greens don’t fit with Lib/ Lab. Like the oddball Reform UK they are disliked right across the political spectrum.
DeleteAny majority will probably have to be built without either fringe party. Tricky.
With these numbers the only scenario I can see playing out is Labour (40) + Liberal Democrats (8) forming a minority Government and betting on the Conservatives (18) voting with them to keep the SNP out of power.
DeleteAfter that the coalition would seek support from other Parties (including potentially the SNP) on a case-by-case basis to pass Bills through Parliament.
Labour hopes of coalition dashed following new poll showing Alba will win no seats
ReplyDeleteWhat poll is that then
DeleteDr Jim @1.41pm. As ever Jim trashes polling when he doesn’t like the contents but relishes others that contain results he likes. Jim is an unreliable poster often called a liar.
DeleteIFS anonymously calling everybody Dr Jim now, the guy lives in your head for free ya numpty
DeleteAnon at 8.14pm is Dr Jim 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
DeleteAnon at 8.14pm - I think you are obsessed with me and I live in your head for free.
DeleteIn all 3 of the above sets of numbers the Unionist/Nationalist split is roughly 60/40%.
ReplyDeleteSurely, from an independence perspective this is deeply concerning.
Have to agree.
DeleteJames always tries to put a positive spin on these polls, but the SNPs fall from grace in recent years is very alarming.
All parties have fallen from grace, though. We're living in a different economic situation, compared with 2014. Most folk don't have any spare money now and are giving up many of their regular donations to such things as charities and political parties. I know I have, as I can't afford it anymore. There is a general air of hopelessness, too, which doesn't help. The thought of Sarwar as FM and Dame Baillie as Depute gives me the dry boak!
DeleteBrit Nat here. Effie Deans forecasted that Labour would not be that bad that quick. But their assault on free speech is frightening.
ReplyDeleteThe Reform vote is gathering in Strength.
If you have been in Glasgow recently you may have noticed a marked change in the demographics. In other words there are a lot more folk that are not white and wearing kilts. homzabinshagin will be well pleased..
Now traditionally Scots have been conservative with a small c. These same Scots are starting to notice and How the Muslims and Trans folk seem to be in the news too
much. They smell shite!
There is a marked rise in Antisemetism in Scotland. Your average Scot will not tolerate that.
The SNP are still in denial mode that Sturgeon took you all for a ride. She not only too your Nats money but she took your trust and abused it. She also abused us Brit nats who are Scots too. She and her canal were bound to look after all of us.
Wouldn't it be lovely if people could be evacuated if they needed to be?
DeleteSarwar will crystallise branch form when the time is right. There is Gupta to come, the Scot wind stench and Big Ecks case not least. Also there are cases we are not allowed to about. At some point one of the alphabetties will jump ship and come clean. Some civil servants with see Sarwar coming and chuck the SNP under the bus.
ReplyDeleteWell you nats that’s a summary. Have a look at look at Robin Mcalpines blog for analysis.
In summary the SNP and Indy is over! Get it up you!
Starting to make a list of my SNP dream team.
DeleteDeek Mcaye Minister for male education.
Patrick Graydy. Minister for teen male education.
The Black lassie Minister for men dressing up and teaching primary kids and chip shops.
The Robison woman. Minister fa the glaekit
Mahri McAllin . Ma dads a rich land owner with a wind farm but aw yon leaders call me a fae advice.
Gil sturgeon.. minister for ranting.
Shirley. SAS fae inexperience .. used to be some HR fanny.
Leader Honest John at the moment!
.
Yoosles. Minister for the Temple Mount, safer windows in Dundee and car insurance and Nurseries
DeleteAnon@3:37,
DeleteThey somehow won’t accept it’s over though, they just don’t get it. They can’t see they’re in a minority, and always will be.
Even when the wretched SNP suffer the same fate as the Tories in 2026 they still won’t accept its over. It’s pathetic, utterly pathetic.
The nationalist charlatans have had their day.
DeleteLike in Westminster, there is urgent need for change.
Aye, let's get oot the Britnats
DeleteYoons are so pathetic.
DeleteCameron Downing. Minister for hide and seek in plain sight.. once he gets out of jail for sexual offences. Aye us yoons are awful folk.
DeleteMoronic Britnat posting. Look at all the ammo Sturgeon and others in the SNP have given these Britnat morons. Slavish loyalty to Sturgeon by SNP members caused this.
DeleteWhere is your sense of humour? Oh Tommy Shepard says unlikely to be an indyref this side of 2030 if at all. Your man Tommy runs a comedy club! Now that is funny?
DeleteNearly 7 years since Sturgeon launched the Glen Sannox, to great fanfare. The ferry’s still not in service! You couldn’t make it up.
DeleteThe contract to build the 2 ferries awarded to Fergusons by the SNP SG in an attempt to make political gain, which has backfired so spectacularly.
Shameful and an embarrassment to this country.
And we’re to believe this shower of incompetents could run an independent Scotland! Give us peace.
It’s nearly 10 years since the Britnats lied their faces off and produced the Vow. Britnat UK based on lies and deceit and served by moronic foot soldiers like the Britnats who post on SGP.
DeleteIs that the Vow published by the guy who is currently in charge of the SNP?
DeleteThere is nothing worse on this planet than a late ferry.
DeleteHolocaust? - Chicken feed. Srebrenica? - Small beer.
Glen Sannox? - Cataclysm.
I've been living on an island for 5 days, so I'm an expert.
There needs to be a new broom in the independence movement.
ReplyDeleteNew talent, fresh faces and a tendency to positivity and a sense of humour. The achilles heel, over and above the corruption allegations and general policy malaise, has been the lack of gallus positivity. A tendency to take ourselves too seriously.
Labour have been riven of it too hence their vote hovers only at 30odd percent in their pomp. If Indy movement is to win large again it needs to take a majority of people with them. We need a leader who can break the mould and be followed.
Indy is supported by many, it's not going away forever. But factors are at play which cause it issues
A) demographic change, fewer Scots (shorthand: ethnic Scots) in Scotland for better or worse
B) strategy to achieve it, a defacto vote needs to be nailed on
C) unpopular political vehicle in terms of getting over 50% of the vote.
If all we want is the SNP in power every so often then we have that. If independence is to happen, we may need to change the vehicle in a radical way.
It needs genuine cooperation and olive branches to heal the divisions as well.
DeleteMany have lost faith in the SNP but instead of attempts to understand why and having an open and honest discussion on the best way forward there's an element who just double down and angrily insist that the SNP are the only viable vehicle and those critical of them should just shut up.
I really don't understand why they think that would be effective.
SNP resurgence? Nah, it's the dead cat bounce
ReplyDeleteSwinney and his 25 member cabinet.. yes 25 doing what? ain’t going to chuck themselves off the gravy train. Many of the ordinary SNP members just can’t bring themselves round to the fact that they are getting absolutely shafted so they lash out. Some are as thick as Indy mince and for them there is no hope.
ReplyDeleteThe time has come for people to come to their senses and give up on the utter nonsense of independence. Not happening, ever.
ReplyDeleteBritnat @ 10.17am. Do you get the minimum rate for posting this same rubbish time after time? Or are you paid for each post?
DeleteHe or she is just a bit thick and thinks the case for independence will be weakened by repeating shite over and over again.
DeleteThe Scotwind sell off. SNP sold off our family silver for around 700 million. That money has now disappeared into The SNP fiscal black hole. The SNP always mention Norway oil fund. They can’t even sort out a wind turbine deal.
DeleteQuestion is that a “bit Britnat thick” or SNP nae working brain cell at all thick?
Most Britnats post for free and relish the slow of the SNP as they self destruct.
And Smarmer and Sarwar are setting up Great British energy to export oor power to bail oot energy-scarce England. Then they're going to carve up oor mountains and destroy the ecology of Loch Ness and other lochs to store up power so the lights stay on doon sooth . Meantime we pay more for this power than the English . And wait till they run oot o watter - and drain a few mair lochs!
DeleteAnon@10:49,
DeleteSadly for you it’s not rubbish that @10:17 posts.
You need to accept it’s over and move on. You remain in a minority.
Independence won’t and never will happen under this SNP leadership. They couldn’t run a bath and I was a member for nigh on 40 yrs. Breaks my heart to see what’s happening to a resource rich country like Scotland.
DeleteAnon al 11.38. You come across as illiterate and you are of course lying.Toddle off back to wings and the Mail. More your level.
DeleteAgree with Anon @ 6:49 they all seem to be illiterate to an alarming degree. No sentences words out of context etc
DeleteIncredible how there are still people out there who somehow still think independence might happen one day!
ReplyDeleteDeluded people living in complete denial.
I meant despite all the shit and scandals of the past few years support for independence is still on average around 48% (according to the last 7 polls on the ballotbox.scot tracker, excluding don't knows).
DeleteWhen nearly half the population still support it it'll never go away unless something drastic changes.
I think there are more people want independence than don’t, but you only need to look at how this blog is run to see sadly it will never be delivered. To be honest it just illustrates how bad, disjointed, tribal and easily divided we are, throw in the lies and you have a movement with no method of moving forward. It’s so easy for the establishment to divide and rule. Read this quick before it is removed by the James. We have always his old pal Stewart to turn to, I rest my case.
DeleteThe idea that Labour aren't going to form the next Scottish goverment involves a lot of wishful thinking. The SNP are about to get turfed out big time.
ReplyDeleteThey likely will, but how effective will that Government be on a day-to-day basis when they likely will need the support of both the Lid Dems and Conservatives to get a Budget and Bills passed through Parliament?
DeleteThere's not a lot all three Parties agree on except for not wanting the SNP in power.
That's what all you Britnats want we've already learnt that . Most folk are just ignoring you.
DeleteAlex Salmond spent four years relying on the support of the Conservatives.
ReplyDeleteI saw Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon driving a car at speed down a certain High Street in a well-known Scottish borough. They were waving posters of Vladimir Putin and threatening to thrown raw eggs at pensioners who had stormed the beaches of Normandy. I think that says a lot.
DeleteThough there's pretty much widespread consensus that the 2007 administration was probably the most cooperative and effective one in the history of devolution.
DeleteThere's a reason why the SNP ended up with their 2011 result afterwards.
Now Alex Salmond is running a deeply unpopular nationalist party. After a spell of thinking we would be reassured with health stuff brought to us by a lawyer and a dentist Nicola Sturgeon has also disapeared to be replaced by John Swinney of all people. It's a clown show.
ReplyDeleteSo UK has just replaced one right wing British nationalist party with another nearly as right wing British nationalist party.
DeleteI don't really understand the 'Labour Party are right-wing nationalists' trope.
DeleteLabour under Smarmer is clearly right wing . Right of centre anyway . Austerity continues , no attempt to redistribute wealth . Union flag prominent- a Britnat centre-right party.
DeleteOf course Labour is a nationalist party: British nationalist. GREAT Britain , union flags . Even the energy company being set up to rob Scotland of her energy is " Great British Energy. And they're hardly leftist under Starmer!
DeleteAre you spearheading the dictatorship of the prolitariat?
DeleteSeriously, why do you think that Labour are any more nationalistic than other partys?
DeleteTories , lib dems and Labour are Brit nationalist . Recently Starmer has particularly played the Britnat card : Great British Energy. Union flags when you see his mug.
DeleteWhat do u expect them to do? Hoist a Saltire?
DeleteJolly boy Jason has also disappeared. Thank goodness.
ReplyDeleteLabour along wi Tories and the liedems continue to deny Scotland her natural right to determine her own constitutional future. That's British nationalism. Colonialism too.
ReplyDeleteIt's not difficult folks , if you believe that Scotland should be an independent country you're a Scotnat.
ReplyDeleteIf you believe that Britain/ UK should continue as a nation state that denies that the Scottish people are Sovereign then you're a Britnat.
And the rest of the World will think you are a narrow-thinking nut-job.
DeleteAnd most of the rest of the world despises " GREAT" Britain - most ordinary folk of other countries are sympathetic to Scottish self-determination .
DeleteSurely it's the Britnats that are
Delete" narrow-thinking nut-jobs " .They can't even understand that a resource rich Scotland would prosper . All other small countries around us are doing better that the busted flush that we call the UK..
Anon 5.33. Touched a nerve there have we? Your type doesna like the truth. S'e an fhirin a th'agam.
DeleteNote that the paid to post Britnats on SGP never ever try to provide any positive case for the UK other than the SNP are useless. Who gives them the tamp to do this - the devolutionist SNP leadership.
ReplyDeleteThe best service the SNP membership can do for their country is to wake up and get rid of the current leadership.
Why don't you join the SNP and do it yourself?
DeleteBritnats should be reminded that for most of history in which Britain has existed it did NOT include Scotland.
ReplyDeleteScotland the Colony
ReplyDeleteScotland is a colony but some people think that Scotland can only be called a colony if we win an independence vote, declare independence and then the Britnats send in their own stormtroopers and tanks. Wrong! The British Army already trashed Scotland hundreds of years ago and established forts and garrisons all over Scotland to subjugate the nation.
I recommend a read of grumpy scottishman' s article entitled: " Scots aren't Anti English - 20 reasons why Scotland is a colony is more apt." on his blog.
Here are a couple of tasters:
" I wouldn't piss on the crown to put a fire out. The fact that Scotland still has this pish imposed on us tells us all we need to know about our lack of democracy, the quislings who bend over for their King, and how much the English remain the peasants they were 400 years ago, they are as much victims as us colonised jocks, the only difference being some of us see it for what it is. "
" Nuclear weapons are an affront to the world, the fact they are in Scotland just yet again highlights being a colony of the nut jobs in the English parliament. "
England gets what England wants.
Scotland gets what England wants.
Sadly some people think the current situation is just fine. These people are the colonisers and their little helpers. Colonialism is one of the greatest evils ever seen by the world.
Only when politicians and other independence influencers start describing Scotland's true status as Scotland being England's colony will we get anywhere with Scottish independence. We are not a democratic deficit. We are a colony.
IfS makes a compelling case.
DeleteBe honest, most of us hate the English, particularly on this site.
His message must be amplified.
James - can’t you get his points published in the National?
We must introduce counter measures such as denying benefits, a ban on property and business ownership, border controls etc.
These would be popular policies and vote winners.
We must rise up against our oppressors.
Anon@9:41,
DeleteDisgraceful post!
This hatred for the English is disgusting and certainly not helping the independence cause. You should take a long hard look at yourself.
As for the National, it’s an embarrassment.
Anons at 9.18, 9.41, 10.00, 10.12 - probably the same Britnat. Coloniser or little helper? Probably little helper.
DeleteIFS is back spouting his usual nonsense.
DeleteKC at 10.49pm are you a coloniser or one of their little helpers? My bet is you are a little helper.
Deletepeople who disrespect you, treat you like shit and steal from you are not your friends - quit bending over for them. Have some self-respect. I won't beg for their vote, I would rather put my toe up their rse, not new scots, just little englanders.
DeleteThe Anglo is a psychopath and his patriotism is imperialism, narcissism codifed at a collective level, even his religion is a form of worship of a mythic past (d-day, the cenotapth).
- time to go.
The english leaving Scotland en-masse would be a massive benefit to this country (franchise problem, solved); they are the sugar in the petrol, the sand in the vaseline, everywhere you go you hear one of their voices telling you what to fkng think. But I don't care about them, don't care what they think, and I want to do what I want to do, for my life purpose, without the nagging interference from these vertical silos of sh*t who mangle their vowels.
Anon at 1.29am. Your post makes no sense. A person cannae be a colony. So why is Scotland not a colony anon - because you say so so. What age are you - 5. No reasoned argument means you have no argument.
DeleteKC at 8.55am as you are a Britnat you would say that wouldn't you. You have no counter argument just your continual use of
Delete" nonsense" and " embarrassing". That is no argument just emotive words.
So KC are you an English colonial or one of their little helpers here in Scotland.
Who is this KC ??
DeleteIf that Holyrood projection is correct and like yourself I don't think that the Alba seat tally is anywhere correct, then Scotland will be ungovernable. No party has more than a third and there's no coalition which builds enough trust to work.
ReplyDeleteLab + LD + SGP isn't enough.
SNP + LD + SGP isn't enough
SNP + GRN + ALBA isn't enough or going to work.
Nobody, least of all the Tories, will deal with Reform or Alba.
Agreed, mostly.
DeleteExcept that neither LD nor Lab will do a deal with the Greens
Oh, missed this, LD won’t do a deal with SNP either
DeleteIn theory Labour or Labour & the Lib Dems could bet that the Tories would initially rather have them in Government to finally remove the SNP from power.
DeleteThen they could attempt to govern on a case-by-case basis in a similar way the SNP managed from 2007-2011.
Yes (anon @9:41) Tagore that’s a plausible scenario, far more so than another coalition including the Greens
DeleteGoing by actual election results this year, Labour in Scotland wouldn't need any deals.
Delete* agree that’s
ReplyDeleteeven if the english stuffed our mouths with 10x our tax take, and reimbursed us for 55 billion barrels of oil, 300 years of pillage, sent us all 10 servants/sex slaves to do our bidding, gave scots mps 20 votes each at westminster, I still wouldn't want anything to do with them, for they are all just scum, high and low, the high table, the whitehall offices, the streets of brum, the beaches of magaluf - can we not just be rid of these, the most awful people on earth?
ReplyDeleteI hold a mirror up to the anglo and call him : "monster!"
- and he recoils in terror.
What a disgraceful post. How desperately sad.
DeleteAbsolutely, why should Scots be any different to the English racist thieving scum, it's always been our problem we're not scum enough
DeleteAnon@12:50am,
DeleteYou are one sad sad individual.
I quite agree - being the siamese twin of a kleptomaniac narcissist for eternity sounds like heaven to me; Scots are not genetically disposed to make decisions for themselves or deal with amounts of money greater than universal credit
DeleteQuite unbelievable that perfectly reasonable posts get deleted on here, while a disgraceful vile post such as anon@11:54am is allowed to stay up.
ReplyDeleteSurely a sign of just how desperate Nats have become.
Awww. Sad...
DeleteAnon at 11:54am 28th Aug is a saddo and James Kelly choosing not to delete his vile post is also sad.
DeleteThese days there seems to be no limits to just how low Nats are prepared to stoop.
Desperate stuff!
It appears that far right-wing racist hate spiel is OK as long as it is the site's preferred kind and doesn't involve Elon Musk.
Deletewhat we need is an independence movement which is acceptable to middle england, the bbc and guardian readers and allow them to police the discourse
Deletethe english fought hitler and ended slavery, mind; we also benefitted from the firm but fair, wise pimp hand of the anglo - if Scotland had the wealth from all the oil we would just have pished it up a wall, spending it on buckfast and the crack-heroine
I think the perfect measure of acceptability of comments is - would this look right at bella caledonia? The Byres Road Baader Meinhof / Morningside Direct Action and fragrant, artistic people for tartan globalism, always have the highest morals IMO
DeleteWhat Scottish political blogs there are do seem to veer between right-wing hate filled invective and the Byers Rd Mienhof gang of university sociologists. Probably with the input mostly from the former.
DeleteAnd the former commentatorists seem to all live somewhere a lot sunnier than Aberdeen. It's weird.
DeleteThe hate runs from hatred of the SNP, hatred of the Alba Party, which are both run by James Bond apparently, even before the huge hate for hated britnats. It's a shitfest for social inadequates who will still be just as inadequate no matter what the constitutional condiditions are, and have no intrest in change in any here and now.
ReplyDelete