Thanks to Cassandra on Twitter for pointing out to me that two new GB-wide polls have been published since my last update. They won't attract much attention so soon after a general election, but this is actually the period in the electoral cycle when polls can tell you something really important and surprising, and I think that's the case here. Labour should be very, very concerned. A month after a supposedly "landslide" triumph, they should be basking in a honeymoon as Tony Blair was at the equivalent point in time, but they're not. They're one point down on what was already an underwhelming vote share from 4th July.
Omnisis GB-wide poll (7th-8th August 2024):
Scottish subsample: Labour 33%, SNP 25%, Conservatives 19%, Liberal Democrats 9%, Reform UK 8%, Greens 6%
OK, we don't have proportional representation for Westminster elections, so even on a reduced vote share Labour would win another landslide on these numbers. But of course the point is that the split in the opposition vote is not going to remain static over the coming years. If and when the right-of-centre vote starts coalescing behind either the Tories or Reform UK, 33% would be a losing vote share for Labour. Indeed, it's almost identical to Jeremy Corbyn's vote in the heavy 2019 defeat. If this is as good as it gets for Labour, Keir Starmer could quite easily be a one-term wonder.
Scotland's disgraceful mainstream media have been making a none-too-subtle attempt to use the general election result to bury the SNP once and for all. In such a difficult context, the SNP were never going to be setting the heather alight in these early polls, and I think they'll settle for being ahead in one of the two Scottish subsamples. What matters by far the most to them is that there's no Labour honeymoon, because that means once the post-election dust settles, there'll be a golden opportunity to re-establish themselves as Scotland's leading party as the 2026 Holyrood election approaches.
Labour vote down? Step forward Rachel Reeves and her WFA stunt.
ReplyDeleteEconomy in a different place from 1997.
ReplyDeletetrust nicola swinney and the plan we are going for it in 2030 you just need to believe
ReplyDeleteOh dear the Nicola fixation is back
DeleteHiya Rachel.
ReplyDeleteJames, I know that you know statistics. It is really important to point out the statistical relevance of the subsample. I can't decide how Scotland is going to vote by asking my auntie. But these subsamples are like that.
ReplyDeleteMaybe my auntie is a racist. Maybe she believes in independence. Maybe she supports the UK.
You get my point. A small number of people will have these fluctuations in numbers. A normal 3% deviation doesn't apply for the Scottish subsamples.
The margin of error is inversely proportional to the square root of the sample size. So if a poll usually has a margin of error of +/- 3% , then a subsample of one tenth of the size will have a margin of error of +/- 3 x √10 or +/- 9.5% which explains why the two subsamples can be so wildly different and why Scottish subsamples of UK polls are usually fairly meaningless.
DeleteI didn't want to get too mathematical about it, hence the anecdote. But you are correct.
DeleteOh for heaven's sake, people, I have gone into depth about the statistical issues with subsamples on countless occasions, you can't expect me to do it every single time. It does get a bit repetitive, you know.
DeleteDon't bother publishing poll subsamples.
DeleteThose Scottish sub samples are crazy. A lead of 7% and a deficit of 8%. Any explanation James?
ReplyDeleteAs the above commenter says, small sub-samples have high margins of error.
DeleteYeah, I have an example above. I'm definitely going to extremes, but you just can't get a feel for it from 100 people.
DeleteO I'm scared of leaning into statistics. They creep me out.
DeleteBeing fabulously naïve here, but if there are any wise heads left in the SNP leadership you’d have to hope they have enlisted the best of the fallen MPs and have them cooking up some effective and popular policies. If the SNP can’t rule well and aren’t able to progress independence then why should any lapsed SNP voters come back?
ReplyDeleteAnon at 3.34. The Scottish electorate can choose instead the Winter fuel allowance cutting Labourites. who will with Streeting's prompting abolish free prescriptions and tuition fees.
DeleteFree tuition fees for all middle classes and rich, with caps on number of places, is a dreadful
Deleteand badly-targeted use of public funding.
Anon at 7.14. Uninformed nonsense. A publicly funded education system, free for all, has too many positives to list. Go away and do a bit of study and research.
DeleteIt looks like they are too busy writing newspaper articles saying how awfully the party that they were unquestioning MP's for last month is.
DeleteThe omnisis one is ridiculous. Tories on 4 percent.
ReplyDeleteSub samples not worth troubling yourself with.
Waste of time
Those subsamples are not statistically accurate.
ReplyDeleteWe thought the GE was bad!
ReplyDeleteSNP now seem to be plumbing new depths, not even 30% of the vote.
These are desperate times for the Indy movement. You have to wonder what the catalyst for improving fortunes will be.
Deeply depressing ☹️
These subsamples are not accurate.
Delete@6:58,
DeleteHave to say I share your sentiments. Been a long time since I’ve been so downbeat on the prospects for Indy.
Going to be a long haul.
If you're feeling down join your local YES group and get a street stall going. Opinions on the street are not so bad for indy. Don't fixate on the serial failures of some sinking careerists in the SNP.
ReplyDeleteSnp had 30 previously... 29 and 25 here
ReplyDeleteYes. I noticed that too. I notice a lot of things. Just saying.
DeleteBetween the mainstream media Alba and sites like this one independence is off the table permanently
ReplyDeletedribble dribble wibble wibble
DeleteEveryone else's fault except for the SNP I guess?
DeleteI quoted your last paragraph and URL on a certain wgd website, hope you don't mind. Along with this comment:
ReplyDelete"But there’s no time to waste, and none of this ivory tower introspective stuff. They need to listen to all critics with an open mind, even if they end up disagreeing. Not just SNP members, and certainly not a few basically self-appointing delegates. The whole membership, the whole of YES."
Waste of time basically as it has been for months. The SNP high heidyins have headphones on a Sony Walkman with "Too-ra-loo-ra-loo-ra-loo, I'll tell ye something awfu true, Ye wouldna hae your telly the noo If it wisnae for the Union" on loop, and go around nodding to each other, signing kumbays, holding hands, and ignoring anybody else. Someone should give them a new cassette: "There must be 50 ways to leave your lover". [1]
Seems to me they think they won the General Election and they're perfect.
[1] Hop on the bus Angus, make a new plan John, no need to be feart Kate, just listen to me.
The SNP encouraged its members to fill out a questionnaire which will give their views. They would not do that if they did not want to listen to the ordinary membership.
DeleteIt depends on the questions which in themselves totally restrict what the membership tell them. To exaggerate just a bit:
Delete1). what do you think of the leadership?
a) John Swinney is absolutely fabulous
b) John Swinney is the best thing since sliced bread
c) John Swinney is so good I swoon whenever I hear his name
d) All of the above
On a scale of 10 to 10 how well did the SNP run the Election?
What should the SNP change in its approach to Independence?
a) Absolutely nothing
b) It's sheer perfection, wow
c) It's so great I can't get up from my knees in adoration
d) All of the above
errr, and so on
YIR2 at 9:41 am ... what a stupid comment. You don't know the questions, so just make up your own to suit your tedius agenda. Pathetic.
DeleteAnon at 8.56 am. The people the SNP most need to listen to are those who left them, either as voters and/or members. And the fact they have to ask the remaining members what went wrong is deeply worrying. Every person I have spoken to who has left SNP has done so because the party had relegated pursuit of Independence to the pursuit of a range of divisive policies that were never going to advance the Indy cause. They had also governed with increasing incompetence, especially over the last three to four years, and had changed the SNP from a Democratic Party into a party ruled over by a cabal composed of entryists and careerists, none of whom had Independnce anywhere near the top of their list of priorities. The remaining membership is not going to tell them this. I told them before resigning my membership. I did not even get an acknowledgment let alone a reply. Indy has been set back at least two decades by events of the last five years or so.
DeleteAnon at 8.56am wins the gold medal for naivety.
DeleteAnon at 10.32am I agree with your post other than the last sentence.
DeleteAnon@10:32,
DeleteI agree fully with your post, including the last sentence.
There is absolutely no doubt Indy has been set back years, not least due to the SNPs incompetence in government. I will be very surprised if they don’t pay the ultimate price for this incompetence at the 2026 Holyrood election.
Jamie @ 10.00 am
DeleteI've been authorised to give you the special question that only privileged members are getting apparently.
Do you have a sense of humour?
a) What's humour?
b) I used to then I joined the SNP
c) I never did until I joined the SNP
d) All of the above
Labour are down and SNP are up. Small numbers but at least everything’s moving in the right direction. We will likely retain Holyrood and then hopefully biggest number of MPs at next GE.
ReplyDeleteEncouraging to see.
DeletePersonally I don’t want us near the next GE. Make Holyrood independence +. Just compare Norway and Ireland with exploited Scotland. Successful campaign? It’s Scotlands energy, oil, food, fish, whisky. Add to the list.
DeleteAnon at 8.25am - your post is one of a person interested in winning elections not independence and as such the SNP vote will continue to decline.
DeleteIFS@10:42,
DeleteIf the SNP don’t win elections I’m afraid the chances of independence are zero.
Coincidentally under the current SNP the chances of independence are also virtually zero & if they keep winning elections they have no reason to change.
DeleteIt's not a winning message to ask people to vote for more of the same.
What I find funny, those who say that we need to keep voting SNP and that the SNP needs to retain power as any alternative option will take took long... But they're also the same people who'll be happy if we're still in exactly same position 10 years from now with no progress on indy being made.
DeleteThe optics of maintaining a supposed pro-indy Government is more important than it actually being pursued. We've wasted a decade already on that strategy, I don't want to waste another one.
Anon1250 The SNP have won plenty of elections and we're no nearer independence than in 2014. Time to stop banging your head off a wall.
DeleteWe’re no nearer independence for the simple reason support for it hasn’t risen since 2014. This despite years of a Tory government in Westminster and Brexit. It’s becoming increasingly difficult to see a catalyst that’s going to drive support through the 50% mark.
DeleteThen we've got useful idiots who insist that nothing should be done to pursue independence until support for it magically stays above 50 or 60%.
Delete*Chaps on door* You should support independence!
Q: How will it happen?
*Why are you so focused on process,? Just support independence!"
Q: But how would it actually be put into practice?
*We've got a yoon here!*
Anon @ 12:56 The SNP wasted those opportunities.
DeleteInstead of making the case for independence due to Brexit, particularly by taking advantage of Theresa May's weaknesses, they sat on their hands in the House of Commons during crucial moments. They opted for grandstanding, delivering baseless speeches, and then bizarrely running a "Stop Brexit" campaign in the following General Election.
When Boris Johnson then became Prime Minister, the SNP insisted on waiting—first until the Brexit terms were clear, then until the Covid pandemic was over, and then simply just waiting because reasons.
Golden opportunities came and went, and we were repeatedly told to "keep the faith," as if there was some secret plan in the works. In reality, it turned out to be shooting ourselves in the foot by going to the Supreme Court, reinforcing the UK Government's authority over an independence referendum, and then simply returning to inaction instead of seizing the democratic outrage from that moment.
What point is a catalyst when the so called 'Party of Independence' doesn't effectively utilise it to move the independence cause forward? Independence support doesn't just magically increase on its own.
It's hardly surprising that so many have deserted the SNP & that's without even touching upon the incompetent Governance at Holyrood in recent years, scandals & police investigations.
And the route to independence outwith the SNP is ?
DeleteAnd the route to independence with Sturgeon's gang in control of the SNP is?
DeleteIFS,
DeleteThere will never be a route to independence unless more people support it.
Why do so many believe that we, and especially the SNP, don't need to do anything to increase support for independence, and that the best approach is to just sit back and wait for circumstances to spontaneously boost support for independence because reasons?
DeleteThere seems to be a bizarre belief that we shouldn't act until support for independence is above 50 or 60%, instead of working to actually increase support to that level.
The largest increase in support for independence happened when there was an active campaign and a realistic chance of it actually happening. Surely, the best course of action would be to try to replicate those circumstances. With us being in a much better starting position now than we were then, a similar campaign this time around should lead us to victory?
Also importantly the electorate will only care when it's an active issue. Independence isn't on the horizon at the present moment so people's priorities are on other things. It's a difficult task to increase support for independence when it's a hypothetical pipedream.
DeleteThat's why talk of "moving on from process" is ludicrous as the only way to make independence an active issue again is to have a mechanism in place to make it a reality. Without that talk of independence just results in moans, cringe & laughter at right now today it's a fairytale. The SNP needs to change that.
Notice that IfS dodges the question !
DeleteNotice that the troll that follows ifs around like a foul smell keeps saying the same thing even though ifs has answered the question many times previously.
Delete> Why do so many believe that we, and especially the SNP, don't need to do anything to increase support for independence, and that the best approach is to just sit back and wait for circumstances to spontaneously boost support for independence because reasons?
DeleteBecause reasons including their ministerial salaries and pensions, also those of their staff and hangers on. It's a dirty business when you go pro. You're rewarded with power and responsibility (to your cronies) to keep things as they are. Radical change like abolishing the Lords, let alone Scottish independence, fades into empty, empty words.
> That's why talk of "moving on from process" is ludicrous as the only way to make independence an active issue again is to have a mechanism in place to make it a reality. Without that talk of independence just results in moans, cringe & laughter at right now today it's a fairytale. The SNP needs to change that.
Absolutely. Judge them by their actions. Are they talking about the process? Are they serious about putting independence front and centre in every policy area of Scottish politics? Are they Yes or are they devolutionists?
If the party's afraid of independence, at least be honest with us about it.
Plus under Westminster - they have trashed the banks, postal services, Brexit, more racist, add to list
ReplyDeleteThe trick is to yodel at the same time as the cat.
DeleteI object to one word you use. The only right of centre parties are Labour and Libdems. The Tories and Reform are right of right wing parties. Unless of course the centre is already far right.
ReplyDeleteStrangely, Reform's tax proposals for NHS workers is pretty hard-core socialism.
DeleteAfter all the riots, Reform is up in both polls, in second place in Omnisis. The riots (contrary to media spin) don't seem to have done Reform any harm at all. Yikes.
ReplyDeleteGolly. I'm just glad they don't get involved in confectionery or our tummies would be so large we might resemble air balloons floating majestically over the South Downs. Imagine that and thank our lucky stars for common sense. And savoury treats!
Delete“The idea that condemning rioters was somehow saying concerns about the level of immigration were illegitimate was always a lie and the results in our poll show this quite clearly,” said Adam Drummond, head of political and social at Opinium.
DeleteEngland may not look on the riots kindly, but it agrees with the underlying message.
Instead of using the word think why do you not try doing it. Dialogue with these people is inevitable if we want to try to influence their actions. You come across as someone with no clue as to the reality of politics. There are many things SNP can be called out on. Supporting genocide is not one of them. Grow up.
ReplyDeleteStummer
ReplyDeleteDon't lie. Robertson did not support the massacre of Palestinian Children anymore than he condoned the killing and maiming of the hostages at the pop concert. If you want a grown up discussion then you need to be grown up. It appears you have a few years to go yet.
Noticed on ITV the usual parody of the screeching bagpipes in a London TV studio supposedly reporting on the bagpipe championship to be held this weekend in Glasgow. The fun the English commentators had with the face connotations and such like. What funny people we are in Scotchland. I am sure some watched this as some sort of funny interruption to "normal" broadcasting from London.
ReplyDeletePersonally, it is just another example of some of England's elites "racist superiority".
What! Can you not take a bit of a joke, Jock!
Too bagpipes,
DeleteToo tartan,
Too shortbread.
Has Robertson met with the leader of Hamas to pass on his views to them? Oh wait Israel murdered him on the soil of a foreign country. Maybe some time soon when a new Hamas leader is appointed? Aye right.
ReplyDeleteRobertson and the rest of them should be working on freeing Scotland from colonial rule but instead they work against it.
The Big Dug Mr Kavanagh disnae like Twitter these days - He says " I’m done with it. It's vile, nasty, negative, and toxic and I want no part of it. "
ReplyDeleteOf course, his blog has been pretty vile at times about Salmond and he allows nasty numpty Dr Jim to post away with his nasty, vile comments about Alba/Salmond. So it's seems some platforms can be vile, nasty, negative and toxic but others cannae in the Big Dug world. Fair enough.
Also in the Big Dug world he takes the Tories and Dross to task for their poor behaviour in trying to stitch up a leadership contest. I agreed with the article. Did he say the same about the two recent SNP leadership contests ( well the latest wasn't really even a fake contest )? Or was he silent?
Is WGD an SNP propaganda blog?
You'll get your MBE yet.
DeleteBoring little troll
DeleteAnon @8.07pm. I agree anon @ 5.53pm is a boring troll.
DeleteResponding to your own posting again.
DeleteI challenge you to try and be a bigger bore than usual and to respond without using "numpty" or "Nicola". I dare you!
DeleteIdiot for Scotland doesn’t do irony. I see his wee brigade of silly billies are rallying round.
DeleteHaven't been here for weeks but you're still using the 'silly billy' patter I see. What a tiresome wee nyaff you are.
DeleteAnd here one comes. The irony is delicious. Stu sends his heartfelt thanks. Please go onto his website and give him money.
DeleteAnon at 1.27. Hasn’t been here for weeks? Tee hee. Liar and idiot. Good combo.
Delete7:16,7:17 Agreeing with yourself again? Tee hee. Idiot. Silly Billy. Good combo.
DeleteStupid comment. Grow up or just get back to wings. Campbell needs your money.
ReplyDeleteJohn Mason MSP has just lost the SNP whip. Will Angus Robertson be next?
ReplyDeleteGive it a rest winger
ReplyDeleteJust one thing after another with the SNP these days.
ReplyDeleteMaybe a period in opposition, from 2026, wouldn’t be a bad thing, then start rebuilding.
So the Unionist administration introduce prescription charges at tuition fees ?
ReplyDeleteAnon @2.15pm your comment is stupid as you do not say who you are referring to. Try getting the basics right before you throw out comments telling other people to grow up. 0 out of 10 for effectiveness.
ReplyDeleteAll IFS talking to himself
ReplyDeleteHope, frustration, exasperation, despair.
ReplyDeleteMy SNP journey since the GE. Just as the trans nonsense fades away, leaving scars in the Yes movement which may never heal, the party decides to comprehensively lunch itself over Gaza.
There was just a glimmer for a few days after the SNP lost 80% of their WM seats that they might get the point at long last and refocus on indy. Yet, here we are six weeks on and all anybody is talking about is a pointless, grinding conflict thousands of miles away that has nothing to do with Scotland or it's independence.
Distraction, diversion, dilution. Oh, and don't anybody dare talk about Unionist tactics of divide and conquer. This is entirely self inflicted. The so called only vehicle to independence still parked in the weeds at the side of the road while the occupants argue about other people's problems.
How does something comprehensively lunch itself?
DeleteBlackford was a man of many a comprehensive lunch. All of them expensed to us. Bless his lasting impression on the green benches.
DeleteAs for the point: it's almost as if the party of independence has lost all interest in independence, eh? Strange. Where have we seen that pattern before?
I think after the GE result it’s time to dial down a bit on independence for a while. Otherwise we’re just going to be subjected to ridicule from unionists constantly.
DeleteLet’s hold fire til 2026 and see what the Holyrood election brings, hopefully not the drubbing the SNP got at the GE.
Scotland small, dont bother connecting with the rest of the world. Okay.....
DeleteYep those Britnat unionists have a point we should be feart because they're laughing at us over their porridge
Delete.
Anon @ 10:44 AM
DeleteThe massive issue with that though is without independence they'd essentially be asking the electorate to judge them purely on their record in Government... looking at the past few years objectively that's not exactly a winning strategy (to put it mildly).
People are fed up with the status quo and are crying out for change.
DeleteThe SNP can still highlight the change on offer via independence. If you remove that then the only other kind of change on offer is a change of Government.
Backing away from independence at this point would be a massive mistake.
Don’t talk about divide and conquer… why not? You are just one example of the doubters and underminers working for the Brits. Just not honest to win up to it.
DeleteSearing reply idiot at 8.56. You must be pleased. Come on here more often and you’ll get the hang of it. No actual response to calling out his/your stupidity. Now there is a surprise. You away back to wings as well. Adults are speaking.
ReplyDeleteAs compared to Brexit, austerity, racial riots, May Johnson Truss Sunak and now the prodigy Starmer,
ReplyDelete'Adults are speaking' is the searing reply from a guy whose only contribution to debate is to tell people to grow up and 'away back to wings'🤣🤣🤣
ReplyDeleteRealistically, independence needs to be parked for a time, after the GE result. We have to be honest, I mean the SNP lost 39 of their 48 seats and the nationalist share of the vote was 35%.
ReplyDeleteWe need to hope for a significant improvement in the 2026 Holyrood election, and hopefully start rebuilding from there with a renewed push for Indy.
Why do you bother? Your transparency is matched by your stupidity.
DeleteBut independence is the only thing that gives The SNP a realistic chance of retaining power.
DeleteIf you remove that & focus purely on the Party itself and their recent record in Government we might as well start discussing how we can rebuild the independence movement with the SNP in opposition.
Okay, new plan, folks. Let’s ditch our unique proposition to the Scottish people, and focus on just how shite we are at everything else. That’ll be refreshing!
DeleteTrying too hard silly billy. Answer points made or get back to wings.
ReplyDeleteIFS has summoned his dogs of war. Turns out they’re yappy wee poodles. Games up. Off to WOS for you.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 1.32. You do know the piss is being ripped out of you? Perhaps not. Can you comment on the points made?
ReplyDeleteOh well, it looks like the constituents of N. Perthshire will definately sack Swinney from parliament in 2026, and Edinburgh Central is probably going to sack Angus Robertson. Shame we have to put up with their Scottish government for another year and a half. At least it is interesting to see what their next fuck-up will be. Exams? Genocide? What next.........? I have a feeling that it will be anything they turn their hands to.
ReplyDeleteSuch tosh in such a little post
DeleteShug hasn’t a chance to keep his seat, even before all this. Edinburgh is lost to the SNP now.
DeleteSwinney will keep his, but for little point as his first act on being re-elected will be resigning the SNP leadership to clear the way after 2026’s thumping Holyrood defeat.
Can Stephen Flynn please take over from the droning bald guy that just lost 80% of his party's MPs. At least have a proper leadership contest where a major re-think might actually be aired, rather than just being a rumor to be forgotten. Otherwise, they are going to find the Holyrood election seriously embarasing. It's not as if they are somehow going to have 1.5 years of competently implemented popular policies from people who don't look like they know what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteProbably a good idea for your handler to set your AI dictionary to "English (UK)". Don't say I didn't help you!
DeleteLet’s get rid of one Fm, then another then another … All those individuals who don’t support the snp or independence telling the SNP members what to do. Gtf.
DeleteI mean SNP members made the wrong choice after Sturgeon was forced to resign and they weren't given a choice after Yousaf's short tenure.
DeleteBefore that their last opportunity to vote for a Party Leader was in 2004 so I guess it's understandable mistakes can be made. But they should hopefully try and get it right next time.
Save us from the fu*king wokerati and people that don't understand what democracy is
DeleteA lot of us are afflicted with baldy blindness. It’s hard for us to tell these chrome domes and cue balls apart. Not by choice! Please think of us when swapping out bald white men for bald white men. We won’t even notice it’s a new face.
DeleteWhat points? You haven't said anything other than insulting other posters.
ReplyDeleteClearly Labour is being kept on life support by the undemocratic FPTP system. Without it, Labour would be found out big time.
ReplyDeleteThat same system makes the next WM election pure chaos, too. Starmer only won because the Tory vote was split in two by Farage. Is this the midpoint of a realignment, like what happened to the Liberals? Or will the Tories hold together and reap the benefits when Reeves fucks it up, big time? Flip a coin. That’s the future of England.
DeleteNo matter how bad Labour or the Tories are they’ll always be better than the rotten to the core SNP.
DeleteDamned fine comments, sir. Never let the natives try to run things. That was our mistake in Rhodesia.
DeleteThe damage is being successfully done by the barrage of anti SNP everything, so congratulate yourselves and the rest of the stupid Scottish people for being such gullible morons again, and again, and again, probably for the next 300 years
ReplyDeleteYou came around to Yes, Johann? Aw!
DeleteI wouldn't vote SNP again unless independence is first and foremost otherwise what's the point - in general their policies are crap and they are crap at implementing them
ReplyDeleteThe Indy carrot just doesnae seem to be working any more. They’ve seen the string!
DeleteThere seems to be a determination to self destruct: Lets dump the indy carrot and focus on our shite record in Government instead!
DeleteLabour warned you all what they intended doing to Scotland but you voted for them anyway, cos, SNP Baaad.
ReplyDeleteThat will go down like cold sick on the doorsteps, good luck to you!
DeleteOr the SNP didn't give people good reasons to vote for them hence the lower turnout?
DeleteWhen will the penny finally drop with the minority who somehow think independence is a good idea, that it ain’t happening?
ReplyDeleteThe country voted to remain in the Union in 2014, and in the past ten years, despite the Tories and Brexit, support is no higher. Does that not tell you something?
The time has come to give up on the utter nonsense of independence and move on.
The penny has dropped a' bhalaich . We ken that you and many others on here are Britnats trying to undermine us . We no that daft!
DeleteAnon@9:47,
DeleteLOL🤣🤣🤣
KC at 9.30am. It tells us you are a liar. Support for independence has increased since 2014 and that is why you desperately try to prevent indyref2.
Delete@10:39,
Delete“Support for independence has increased since 2014”
Dear oh dear, what utter bullshit.
@10:54
DeleteOh it has increased. YES at 44.7% was the 2014 result, but a quick average of the last 6 polls has it at 48.5% now.
48.5% is greater than 44.7% even with dodgy unionist maths.
Who knows, we might even have the occasional poll putting Yes slightly ahead by the turn of the next century.
DeleteAs a lifelong supporter of Scottish statehood, I've never felt so dispirited about the prospect of independence. I don't think I can even convince myself that it's a good idea.
ReplyDelete@12:14,
DeleteI’m rather downbeat too tbh. Independence never seams to get any closer. You have to wonder where a positive catalyst is going to come from.
It seems you're coming apart at the seams
DeleteThese are very disheartening times for indy supporters.
DeleteHere’s hoping things improve in the not too distant future.
These are very disheartening times for Westminster. Let’s hope things don’t improve.
DeleteAhh diddums. I’m glad you’re not in PR. Still I think your probably just a britnat
ReplyDeletehttps://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/08/the-purpose-of-scottish-independence/
ReplyDeleteDid he not stand for election in England recently for a party that stood against ALBA and the SNP. Asking for AS @confused .com
ReplyDeleteHe stood for a party that is anti-LGBTQI+.
DeleteWhat is a +. ?
DeleteMr Murray spearheaded the dictatorship of the proletariate in Lancashire from his Morningside mansion and was defeated by the E. Punjabi mafia. As you can imagine, he has mental health problems, and I presume he got bored by the Lib Dems.
ReplyDeleteIt is worth pointing out that the party he stood for is not a supporter of new LGBTQI+ rights.
DeleteI think his campaign entirely involved trying to outdo Blackburn imams on Levantine war declamation. I think the darker-biege candidates may have mentioned Blackburn, and may even live there. I think Murray's spell as a hard-core socialist is finished.
DeleteCraig Murray's a chancer and people fell for it because Wingsy supported him
ReplyDeleteWhat does that tell you
It tells me you are a Britnat.
DeleteNaw, you're the Britnat
DeleteAngus Robertson apologises re Israeli meeting. The guy has a lot more to apologise for than that.
ReplyDeleteAngus Robertson has nothing else to apologise for.
DeleteOf course he has . Apologitis to appease the britnat papers and albanists and the 0.05% SSP are all mighty upset.
ReplyDeleteThe attack on Holyrood and its devolved powers continues apace. Scottish Office/Murray about to be given powers to use moneys that should go back to the Scottish govt from our taxes, to spend directly on anti poverty measures. They steal our energy, now our ideas and our taxes, to make them look good. You were warned this would happen but you voted Labour or abstained, giving them power and an excuse to decimate devolution. Well done you arseholes. Indy is dead for the foreseeable future.
ReplyDeleteYou’re right, Indy is dead, and thank God.
DeleteIndependence would be complete and utter lunacy. Thankfully only a minority somehow think it’s a good idea.
Anon at 9:30 am ... your comment is complete and utter lunacy.
DeleteAnon at 9.30. Go away. Why are you even here?
DeleteAnons@9:43 & 9:49,
DeleteDeluded people who somehow think independence is even a remote possibility in the next 100 years.
What 'ideas'? A pointless airport, a dying shipyard, stupid boats, a stupid offshore wind enegy lotto, a dead steel fabricator, an Indian oligarch, an entire education policy binned, decade-long 'enquiries', an illegal deposit-return company, free bus travel for the wealthy, lekky bill bungs for the wealthy, council tax bungs for the wealthy, free university for the wealthy. There is no end.... Scotland is a very wealthy country and it is goverend by the bourgouise, for the bourgouise, and it's out fault, or desire. In order to ignore real life, we can concentrate on independence.
DeleteIs there ever a point when a Party is at fault for not doing enough to encourage people to vote for them rather than the electorate being at fault for supposedly making the wrong decision?
DeleteAnon 11.51: Hello Mr Ian Murray, it's nice that you can take time from your busy schedule to post on SGP !
DeleteSpeaking as if I am Ian Murray, I can only presume that you are a comfortably well-off member of the bourgouisie, like free stuff from the government, and don't question why wealth redistribution shouldn't apply to you.
DeleteThankfully only a minority want to continue to be ruled by England.
DeleteJames, I'm sorry to say this but you may as well wind up your site. The trolls are winning and making it unworkable. It's impossible to have any discussion as it's immediately downed out by lies and name-calling.
ReplyDeleteYou can't have a discussion amongst uninformed morons who don't know how government works and think democracy is still something that the people get to decide
DeleteAnon at 11.51. Stupid seems to be your favourite word. Quite apt. Toddle off back to Wings and the Mail. Take IFS and his wee pals with you.
ReplyDeleteI am talking about the Scottish government. You seem to be talking about a personal delusion. Both are choices.
DeleteAnon @ 22.37pm you are an obnoxious bully who seems to have an obsession about ifs. Your repeated toddle off posts demonstrate your lack of imagination as well.
DeleteWGD confirming my earlier comments on the dismantling of devolution. The IFS’s of this country really have done a better job of destroying the prospect of Independence than the unionists could ever have dreamt. Ultra useful idiots. We warned you. You didn’t listen. Utter morons.
ReplyDeleteHow does WGD "confirm" anything?
Delete
DeleteAnon @ 5.20pm making wild accusations with zero
facts to back it up. Also seems to be obsessed with ifs. This poster is very much a weirdo.
Why is there a determination to blame anyone and everyone rather than the most blindingly obvious cause for the position we find ourselves in: The SNP themselves.
DeleteThose who deserve the most blame are actually the people who excused every poor decision, every blunder, every scandal and every unpopular policy the SNP pursued because to be critical of them was supposedly undermining independence... it was always wheesht for indy on every issue!
It was nonsensical to give the SNP free reign because they were the "only viable vehicle" for independence. We could have stopped them from fucking up so many times, but instead they were allowed to display incompetence on countless occasions and make themselves unpopular with the electorate. The fear of doing harm to the independence cause is what's allowed that harm to come to pass.
Mate it was the SNP hierarchy who did the damage.
DeleteTake them off that pedestal & stop going out of your way to find anyone & everyone else to blame for their failure.
Time to start a new thread and move on from this one.
ReplyDeleteSo the SNP will speak to the representative of the murdering fascist Israeli government but won’t speak to Ash Regan who wants Scottish independence.
ReplyDeleteIndependence needs to be put on the back burner for a while. So many people are sick to the back teeth hearing about it.
DeleteIt would be understandable if there was a majority in favour of it.
Without independence the SNP might as well look forward to life in opposition after the 2026 election. They can't exactly point to a stable competent Government in recent years...
DeletePeople are also incredibly fed up with the status quo and are crying out for change. Without the change offerd via independence what other kind of change can the SNP offer after being in power for 19 tears at that point?
Ash Regan - give us a break.
ReplyDeleteIn three months John Swinney has lost 80% of his MPs, aired educational schemes with a genocidal government, watched as kids get blank results for their decreasing academic ability with less teachers, supported an MSP who lied to the public and to parliament, increased drug health deaths, etc, etc, etc, and done or said fuck-all, and this is supposed to win an election?
ReplyDeleteOf course that suits you as a sad Brit Nat with your racism and sectarianism as a way to “unite”. Still keep the billionaires happy with their offshore funds.
DeleteThankfully we’ve now got less than 2 years to suffer this rotten SNP administration. Their day of reckoning is fast approaching.
DeleteAnonymousAugust 21, 2024 at 9:28 AM: John Swinney's secretary really did discuss educational and technoligical collaberation with the deputy Israeli ambasador, the SNP really did loose 80% of their MPs, kids really did get blank exam results, Scottish exam results really are getting worse, Micheal Matheson really did lie top parliament and the public, and drug deaths really are getting worse. And it is nothing to do with your personal britnat obsession.
DeleteMy favourite was these wallowing incapables declaring a 'housing emergency' three weeks after they reduced the social housing fund by £150MM. Get them out of goverment now, please.
ReplyDeleteYou Britnat posters are getting very predictable- boring!
DeleteAnon@8:22,
DeleteIndeed, 2026 can’t come quick enough. These charlatans have well and truly had their day. There is urgent need for change.
Yes INDEPENDENCE!
DeleteLOL dream on.
DeleteTo unionists posting here: please do not post here as it is a nationalist forum. There are unionist forums where you can post.
ReplyDeleteI fear your request will be in vain . The unionist britnats are feart . Feart that England will be left wioot all the resources that Scotland is being exploited for. They're hoping that oor current low point is permanent and Indy is over. WE MUST MAKE SURE IT IS NOT!
Delete....And some people wonder why the nationalist cause is going nowhere.....
ReplyDelete