* He's telling people that the way to get independence is to vote against independence.
* He wants his readers to help inflict the most crushing defeat possible on the cause of independence, and to deliver the most overwhelming supermajority possible for a unionist government in London.
* Despite claiming only ten days ago that "Wings has never told its readers how to vote and we’re not going to start now", he is now instructing his readers to vote Labour. He says "there’s a job that needs doing...grit your teeth and gird your loins and get it done".
* In spite of having urged Alex Salmond to set up his own party in 2021, and in spite of having then demanded that Alba adopt the most radical and potentially reckless tactics at every turn, and in spite of having partly got his way with Alba putting up nineteen candidates against the SNP in a first-past-the-post election at a moment of maximum danger for the independence cause, and in spite of - to be blunt - the sycophancy that senior Alba figures have poured on this abusive bully over the last three years, he's telling his readers to vote for the anti-independence Labour party, and not for Alba.
* Despite having lectured SNP loyalists for years that they can't use independence as a form of blackmail to get feminists to vote for a party that wouldn't respect the rights of women and girls, he's now brazenly telling people to vote Labour, the party that JK Rowling says has abandoned women, because apparently trampling on the rights of women and girls is suddenly loads of fun as long as it's done to get revenge against the SNP.
* He's inviting his readers to believe that when they vote Labour, they'll be doing the opposite of what Keir Starmer wants, because apparently Starmer has only been pretending to support Labour candidates and he actually wants the SNP to win in Scotland, not Labour. (I'm not making this up - this is literally what Campbell is claiming.)
* Despite all of the above being self-evidently bats**t crazy, one of the priceless first reactions of his readers in the comments section is: "Perfectly put, Rev, not one thing in there that anyone could argue with."
We all know that the hardcore of Wings fans are so brainwashed by their bog-standard Pied Piper that - crazy though it may seem - some of them probably will go out today and vote Labour, and then have a little chuckle to themselves about how they've screwed up the masterplan of the pro-SNP Keir Starmer. But sometimes people who are under the influence of a cult leader eventually have an epiphany, so what I would say to those people is just remember this moment. If in five or ten years' time you realise that voting against independence killed independence rather than saved it, if you realise that voting for the British establishment helped the British establishment rather than harmed it, if you realise that you were not in fact playing 5D chess but were just having your strings pulled by a man with a petty and destructive agenda, then for pity's sake hold that man accountable for the damage he has caused to your country and the way he has exploited you.
A few years ago, I wrote an iScot column that was critical of Campbell's proposal for a Wings political party led by himself. Because the editor of iScot generally allows his columnists to express their personal views freely (unless that causes legal problems or whatever), he published the column as normal without that constituting any sort of editorial endorsement of what I had said. Campbell wasn't just angry. He effectively tried to put iScot - one of only two pro-independence print magazines in existence - out of business as an act of revenge. He published a list of supposed "backstabbers" and included iScot on it, as a result of which some people cancelled their subscriptions and put the future of the publication in peril. Thankfully it survived in spite of Campbell's best efforts, as it thoroughly deserved to, because it's a great magazine. But if after today anyone is vindictive enough to draw up a list of backstabbers or betrayers of the independence movement, we all know there's only one man who can possibly have pride of place at the top of the list, and that'll be the man who backed Starmer and Sarwar at the 2024 general election.
I have very few political regrets, but I'd have to say that one of the exceptions is that until a few years ago I used to defend Campbell to the hilt against the radical left, who I thought were insufferable purists for trying to exclude the most popular and persuasive advocate for independence from our movement. In my defence I'd point out that Campbell was extremely consistent in his support of independence until a certain point and it would have been almost impossible to predict that he would eventually turn against us. I would also maintain that the radical left were right about Campbell for the wrong reasons. But nevertheless they were right about him in the sense that we'd always have been better off without him, because all he's done is build up a following and used it to try to kill independence.
What exactly is his motivation? Until yesterday I'd have said that he prioritises the trans issue over everything else, but an endorsement of Labour rules that out as an explanation. It must boil down to a personal vendetta against the SNP. A number of people have traced his loss of the plot to his defeat in his vanity legal action against Kezia Dugdale, during which the SNP did not support him, and perhaps he's just never going to forgive them for that.
But for people who care more about independence than about Campbell's bruised ego, here's some rather more sensible election advice -
Please vote today
Please remember to take your photo ID with you
Please vote for a pro-independence party
Please vote SNP if you live in one of the thirty-seven constituencies where Alba or Angus MacNeil are not standing
* * *
My final batch of constituency profiles is in The National today - West Aberdeenshire & Kincardine, Stirling & Strathallan and West Dunbartonshire.
While I agree with you that voting for unionists is daft and that Stu's jumped the shark with this one, I disagree that independence is on the ballot. The SNP notably did not include it in their ballot description.
ReplyDeleteYou still take them at their word, not their deed. I wouldn't give them so much unearned trust.
What does "on the ballot" mean? It's in their manifesto, and that's usually the test. Not everything Yousaf promised has been adhered to, but the "page 1, line 1" has been.
DeleteIt’s on the first page of the Manifesto that you clearly have not read. Go and enable the unionists if you so choose, but have the grace to accept responsibility for the consequences.
DeleteIn all honesty how is the SNP's 2024 plan different from the one they used in 2017?
DeleteBoth stated that a majority of seats would make the UK Government succumb to the democratic pressure for another referendum (which has been clarified multiple times that's what they're seeking to negotiate for if they win this time). They actually managed a majority of seats in 2017 and supposedly obtained a "triple-lock" of mandates then, what would make this time different?
Ignore the argument about replacing a pro-indy MP with a unionist one for the moment. If the SNP somehow manage to still have a majority of seats on Friday would we be any closer to independence then than we are today?
Are you saying that if Labour win we *wouldn't be further away*? Don't be ridiculous.
DeleteYou didn't answer my question.
DeleteIf the SNP somehow manage to still have a majority of seats on Friday would we be any closer to independence then than we are today?
Yes or No.
I did answer the question. You hated the answer but it's self-evidently true: we'll be further away from independence with Labour MPs than we would with SNP MPs. Now you answer my question - *why* do you prefer Labour MPs? Why do you want us to move further away from independence? I genuinely don't understand - why?
DeleteThey could have at least put themselves down as "Scottish National Party (SNP) Independence for Scotland" to emphasise their "page 1, line 1" call to action. Why didn't they? What are they afraid of?
DeleteThe broader issue is that independence is not available in this election anyway. That's thanks to Scotgov's unpopularity (which as all polling shows has driven support for Yes parties well below 50%), the SNP's bungling of the "supreme" court referenda case (which has forced us into the plebiscite election route), and the SNP's lack of passion for the cause in general.
To win a plebiscite election takes guts, clarity, relentlessness and passion. It's not something you can slip into the manifesto and expect to win while losing half your seats.
So no. Independence is not on the ballot in this dismal election.
The death of independence is certainly on the ballot. Will you be joining Campbell in voting for it?
DeleteTwo different anons, here, James. I’m the first one, and 11:01.
DeleteMy position is that independence is not on the ballot, at all. And that as we're just about to have the biggest English landslide in all of history, Scotland's votes will be utterly irrelevant. We are prisoners of this union, which will now speak with one voice: Starmer's. He's already made his position clear.
I don't think indy's dead, by the way. Just many people's belief in the post-Indyref SNP.
The crucial thing will be independence's polling after this tsunami of an election. Does the end of SNP hegemony spell the end of popular support for independence? I don't think it will, but it's possible there's a "permission structure" in there. We will see.
But what we certainly won't get is any closer to independence so long as we haven't a majority for it in our own population, and the political means for them to express their demand.
The SNP have been around a long time. I don't think anyone in Scotland doesn't know what their aspirations and goals are. I really don't understand the "Aha the word independence doesn't appear on the ballot pape therefore they have their fingers crossed" The unionist parties never stop banging on about the dangers of voting SNP because all the seek to do is achieve independence.
DeleteThis "I'm a better, purer, more holy independence supporter than thou everybody else is just a sell out" is just nuts. It is comedy MacGlashan stuff. It reminds of the umpteen breakaway leftwing groups at university. They all hated the Tories but they really really hated each other.
Delete"I don't think indy's dead, by the way."
That's because the votes haven't been counted yet, and most of them haven't been cast yet. Are you going to vote against the death of independence, which most certainly is on the ballot today?
PS, sorry that is a bit garbled. Out with the dog and the heavens opened while I was typing that. God I wish I had put a woolly hat on. It is like a winter's day here.
DeleteThe comments here encapsulates much of what is wrong with the wider Indy movement. Occupying another universe. Get real. A rump SNP result sets Indy back by at least a decade. The fact you need this explained is worrying.
DeleteI mean we haven't progressed in the last decade...
DeleteAnon at 1.30pm - "progressed" we have gone backwards. Sturgeon managed to both get Indyref2 declared illegal and pissof large swathes of voters with horrendous policies.
DeleteCorrect. They played her like a fiddle, while her hubby fiddled us!
DeleteJames, I was fortunate to have an Alba candidate to vote for, and a good one at that. However that numpty over on WOS is finally correct about something - the SNP will NEVER deliver indyref2. The game is up. Nothing will change if you keep voting SNP. Look at the golden opportunity they had to win us independence throughiut 2022/2023. They didn’t even try…
DeleteSNP on 6% in latest UK poll.
ReplyDeleteWhere did you read that?
DeleteCan't see anything on their website
DeleteIf the SNP were on 6% in a UK poll that would probably mean everyone in Scotland was voting for them.
Delete@11:31 only uses the tin can telephone.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteStrange but true. SNP nailed on to win 57 seats:
Deletehttps://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2024-07/ipsos-general-election-2024-final-poll-topline.pdf
That pdf has no seat projections, Keaton.
DeleteTotally agree and I used to defend him too.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is entitled to their opinion but the idea you vote for Blair Macdougall to give independence a shot in the arm is baffling.
If you're aghast at the SNP, at least vote Alba where you can.
He's having us side with Kenny Farquarsson. Anything Kenny Farquarsson wants is not what's good for independence.
Scottish labour lost all but one seat and has come back in the next political shift. We are more likely in this zone for the SNP, with a blow before a return far more likely than requiring it's annihilation.
Even if the SNPs worst result comes through, it'll likely be around a third of the population which is a spring board when the insurgency comes again.
All parties become relatively unpopular with time. The same will happen with Labour and the independence movement needs to be there to pounce when it transpires.
Tbh the SNP should have realised that they couldn't remain popular forever and to counter that drive home that independence is about more than any one Party.
DeleteInstead of going down with the ship we should have had that Constitutional Convention before this election. Get all pro-indy parties talking to each other and see if there was a way to put on a united front.
The only Constitutional Convention the SNP will go into will be the one run by Gordon Brown.
DeleteOf course unionism will crow any SNP reduction as death to independence but if you at least hold on in some areas and win some seats, you can rebut the argument to some extent as EVEN WHEN LABOUR ARE STRONG SNP HOLD ON points to something happening in Scotland DIFFERENT TO ENGLAND.
ReplyDeleteA labour bloc put us in Wales category.
You can take the point that he believes SNP needs obliterated but it doesn't make efficient sense.
A Wales where polls put independence at nearly 50%.
DeleteSomeday, Wales, that will be you, too! Hopefully Plaid knows what to do with it, and can learn the lessons Scotland has given you…
The independence movement in Wales haven't let a charlatan in Bath and his anti-SNP chum lead them down oh so willingly down the garden path. Imagine a Scottish Yes movement throwing itself at the feet of an individual based in Bath. His last four years of work was surely effective for the purposes of those who encouraged and needed it. Why would you expect anything else? Job done. Money for old rope.
DeleteAgree but SNP haven't covered themselves in glory. There is a legitimate grievance with the party over alleged corruption and definite profligate management.
DeleteI've voted SNP in East Ren
Spot on, anon. Wings is a walloper *and* Scotgov has been shite at governing Scotland for years now. Both of these are true.
DeleteWhat can we do about it? Forget Wings and make it very clear to the SNP that our support is for independence, not their own comfort and careers. They are the means, not the end.
...or the ISP where they are standing, such as Colette Walker in East Renfrewshire.
ReplyDelete+ Eva Comrie in Alloa/Grangemouth.
I hope they both keep their deposits at least.
DeleteHonestly, I doubt Alba will keep most of theirs, nor the Greens. Will be interesting to see if any of them get a bigger vote than the SNP's losing margin though. And who then gripes about it!
'I'm not voting SNP because they aren't talking about independence. And if they are it's not all they talk about. And if it's in their manifesto it's not on the ballot paper. The best outcome for independence is to ensure unionist parties win. Then the party can get a new leader who I like. Not him. Or her. Or him either because they don't have independence at their heart. They all have their faces in the trough because they are elected. If no one is elected then sorry for independence becomes 'independiencer'
ReplyDeleteHonestly. How are we to even know the SNP support independence? My local MP said he supports it, but how are we to KNOW...'
Difficult to reply to this level of stupidity. Sorry but sometimes need to be blunt.
DeleteI think that was meant to be sarcasm.
DeleteHe has always been on the books of Mi5. It is classic.
ReplyDeleteWings Anon if you ask me. An intelligent man who has over analysed himself into a corner.
DeleteSaying vote unionist instead of Alba at the very least, is shark vaulting crazy
To add, we need to move on from Wings.
DeleteHe had his day and will have a following, I reckon its somewhere in the 50,000 at most in a country of 5m. That 50k are some of our most committed activists though which reeks havoc on the movement.
I think there needs to be an snp olive branch whatever happens on this election . If alba, isp, snp lose it's time for unity.
I think the idea Stu is an MI5 agent is fanciful. However, the arrest over upsetting the Express journalist and the Kezia thing did upset him considerably. He didn't seem the same after that to me.
DeleteIn fairness I am as furious as anyone else that Nicola Sturgeon took our cause to the Supreme Court of the UK and didn't have a plan to follow through on she was willing to ensure came forward.
DeleteThe SNP are no saints here. They've been careless with a 300 year old cause.
However, to vote en masse for a unionist party will not help that cause either.
It has to be a pro-indy party.
Mi5 don't waste their time on bloggers. They work higher up.
DeleteThey absolutely operate on bloggers and Dear stu probably has a few things in the closet they have leveraged.
DeleteCampbell was good at cut and paste and spot the difference but pretty mediocre in analysis. He dipped his toe in to test his popularity in the real world and discovered what we already knew. He has a following numbered in the single hundreds who repeatedly post in his site, together with a lot of concerted unionist posting that shows a large number of hits but a relatively small core of support. He deserves credit for drawing in the mouth frothers ands keeping them away from the mainstream Indy movement. Beyond that he’s an irrelevance and he knows it, thus the increasingly unhinged posts. Needs psychological help on a personal basis. Hope he gets it for his own good.
DeleteMaybe. But the one person who took the movement and turned us all down a deep dark passageway to nowhere, while chances flourished around her, was a hell of a lot more prominent than him.
Delete@12:57. Remember though that Alex Salmond is among his fans. Not so much so that he gave his party an English name instead of the Gaelic Alba, but enough to trot on down for Campbell's call.
DeleteWasn't Alba formed first and the person who created the Party invited Salmond to become Leader?
DeleteI don't believe Salmond was involved in the initial creation of the Party or the name choice for it.
The problem is he has true analysis intertwined with rubbish.
DeleteSome of it's good and on the money.
But asking for us to vote union? Geez peace
Bookies seem to be going for SNP 20seats now. Above 19.5 seats narrowing, below drifting.
ReplyDeleteAbove twenty still odds against.
Weather is shocking by the way.
ReplyDeleteI wonder who that helps?
Will some labour peeps get complacent?
If the SNP did not support independence then every other political party would say so and use it against them, but they don't because it wouldn't be true and there'd be a media backlash bringing it to everybody's attention and the opposition don't want that do they
ReplyDeleteOops! except for Alba who use that as their total strategy whilst simultaneously claiming that they want to work with the SNP to get independence
Today isn't about party, it's Scotland V England and the SNP is the team on the pitch, Alba don't want to play unless they're the striker and get to pick the team, and let's be honest here, in political terms Alba haven't earned the right to even be at the match
Vote SNP and your vote is a protest against English rule, it means nothing else, Scotland's votes never do, but it really annoys the shit out of the English rulers of the universe that we don't want them
"If the SNP did not support independence then every other political party would say so and use it against them, but they don't because it wouldn't be true "
Deleteexactly.
the media, the people, the candidates all equate snp with independence.
but no, the we know better brigade think their view on it cuts through. even if it was true, which it isn't, it doesn't make the headlines.
it's the same narcissism demonstrated by Q anon supporters in USA. They have to be more "learned" than everyone else. everyone else is wrong, i'm right mentality.
Anyway, I digress. You want independence and to deliver that message? You don't vote for unionism. if you've got yourself in that fankle, try to extricate yourself
Dr Jim at 11.48am says vote SNP to annoy the English. Other WGD/SNP numpties say it is a vote for independence. Talk about a confused message.
DeleteThat's it is it Jimbo, annoy the English - pathetic and that's what the SNP under Sturgeon has turned in to a pathetic shambles of a party.
Some independence supporters like me were sure we were promised a referendum to regain our freedom.
The only thing that will annoy the English is how few seats Reform gets… this time.
Deleteifs - John Swinney id the FM and SNP Leader. Please catch up.
DeleteJohn Swinney: definitely not a poodle for Sturgeon. No sir, woof!
DeleteAnon at 12.38pm - I am well aware of who is still charge as, if it wisnae Sturgeon, she would be suspended from the SNP.
DeleteJohn REDACTOR MAN Swinney is very skilled in redacting correspondence to cover up for his boss.
IFS 12.58. You are simply lying about a post that we can all see and read, except you apparently. Away back and see if WOS will take you back.
DeleteGibberish by the anon troll at 1.00pm. There is no post at 12.58 ya numpty. Unlike you I believe in free speech so I won't tell you to go back to the dughouse. You are obsessed with WOS but your logic is crap. If I support Campbell why would I be expelled and want back. WGD numpties the true simpletons of the SNP. Happy to accept Murray Foote as their Chief Exec. If Foote was Chief Exec of Alba you lot would be all over it saying it is proof that Alba is Unionist. How you lot even manage to feed yourself is beyond me.
DeleteIn truth...most things are beyond you Ifs.
DeleteTroll alert at 5.47pm. Pretty easy to spot a troll like you.
DeleteGosh. ISF relying on a typo when called out as a liar. See what I did there? Liar liar pants on fire.
DeleteI agree with a lot of wings, but I can't defend this madness of his, and its embarrassing that his followers don't even question him.
ReplyDeleteHe also claims that the womens and trans issue is his main focus, but then encourages people to vote for Labour, who voted for the same thing and are just as bad!
Read the comments and you'll see many do say they'll abstain or vote for Alba, instead of going through the looking glass. He's got a similar dynamic with his audience as James does here. And some of them are even more hardcore (Salvo) than he is…
DeleteI just found it insane that there were ANY independence supporters who were willing to vote for a unionist party.
DeleteTo be fair, you're probably looking at every single one of them in all of Scotland. And they're not even most of his commenters.
DeletePlenty of people who voted Yes in 2014 will switch to Labour this election, as the polls have told us all along, but they're not Wings readers. They're just giving up on the SNP and giving Starmer a chance. Whether they stay there for Holyrood is up to the SNP taking significant action.
Anon at 12.45. Kind of agree with you although the 24/7 lies and disinformation against SNP have played no small part.
DeleteAre you sure your name isn't Rumplestiltskin and you've just woken up after a thousand years of slumber stupider than when you went to sleep
ReplyDeleteQuite agree with him plenty of smaller party's one will get my vote .
ReplyDeleteThank you so much. Signed Sir Kid Starver, and what’s wrong with genocide? Yep, well done.
DeleteDon't you know it's Scotland's job to save England from itself?
DeleteI understand people refusing to vote SNP. If you can do so, vote Alba or ISP, or if that’s not possible then abstain. However I feel voting Labour is taking it a bit far, and fail to see how that benefits the indy cause.
ReplyDeleteCampbell is 100% wrong to advocate voting Labour or any of the other colonial parties. It does show that the rights of women and protecting children are NOT his absolute priority. No idea what it is these days - although a reasonable conclusion would be his priority is the complete destruction of the SNP.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that it still remains the case that the SNP have continually introduced policies that would drive away voters and have backtracked, continually changed their approach to independence and generally betrayed the independence movement over the last 10 years.
Continuity will not cut it in the SNP. The members had their chance at the leadership election to vote for someone who actually wanted independence - Regan - and showed that they wanted continuity. Now they have a leader they didnae vote for and its politicians talk about independence in some far off distant future.
I don't think it was just the SNP not supporting Campbell that set him off. It was specifically Sturgeon standing up and supporting Dugdale ( Labour leader) and calling him ( independence supporter) a homophobe etc etc. Sturgeon was wrong then as she has so often been if she wanted to support independence. Sturgeon deliberately attacked the main independence blog and supported Dugdale. Yet here we are Campbell wanting you to vote Labour. What a legacy by both of them.
20?
DeleteWe were in fighting shape just 10 years ago, KC. And one day we will be again. You enjoy today as best you can, because it'll be the deepest abyss we'll fall into. Our cause isnae dead, unlike yours. But we do need to get our act together by throwing out false leaders.
Anon at 12.53. Starting with Salmond?
DeleteSadly, that may well be necessary now that's been permanently ruined with the sex criminal slur Nicola's legally anonymous party staffers put on him.
DeleteHe's also lost the plot a bit when it comes to running Alba, as James describes. But all us Yessers will forever owe him getting us together in the first place. Independence was nowhere before Salmond.
Anon at 1.23pm -
Delete" Independence was nowhere before Salmond" - before Salmond was John REDACTOR MAN Swinney. So decades after Swinney did zero re independence the SNP pick Swinney.
Idiot for Scotland. You do know Cameron ran rings round Salmond and drew him into a trap? Oh wait you don’t. Explains so much.
DeleteCalm down Kezia.
ReplyDeleteI see Survation, in their final update, upped the SNP seat projection from 10 to 13.
ReplyDeleteYou over state this fools influence.
ReplyDeleteAlex Salmond did go to pay Stu homage at his court in Bath, if you remember. He has more clout in Alba than some…
DeleteMr Kelly can you write a post about the new Ipsos poll that has SNP on 5% UK wide and 51% on Scottish subsample
ReplyDeleteYou read wos. Numpty as some folk seem to say on here.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile on the SNP propaganda site called WGD the big dug says tomorrow is get rid of the Tories day. Is that it then. It used to be get rid of Labour as in 2019 in Scotland. It used to be get rid of Tories in 1997.
ReplyDeleteIt should be get rid of colonial subjugation. Labour go down and come back. The Tories go down and back. We will only get our freedom with Scottish independence. The SNP aint just useless in getting independence they just don't care as long as they get our votes. Just like Labour ain't just useless in getting rid of poverty they just don't care as long as they get the votes.
And tomorrow they're going to be so angry! The former MPs, who will scream at all of us for failing them and their precious careers, and the duggers who will be in full-bore partisan frenzy.
DeleteGet the popcorn. Skier's got the misinformation act of his life to do!
Wipe off your keyboard and get out in the fresh air.
DeleteHe says a lot more than that, most of it about Starmers labour. Why do you misrepresent and effectively lie?
DeleteAnonymous arsehole at 1.23pm - if you want to read more WGD crap on SGP what is stopping you post it. I'm not misrepresenting anybody and not lying. He said what I posted. Feel free to fill your boots and post more of his article but no the truth is you are too lazy and you really just want to troll me. You of course didn't mention the rest of my post. Are you effectively lying then.
DeleteStupid arsehole troll sums you up.
You are yet again lying and misrepresenting. Sad wee man. Get a life.,
DeleteKC - it's clear you ain't a real Independence supporter.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear your a unionist plant
DeleteIdiot for Scotland isn’t the brightest.
DeleteGWC, is that you!? How do you feel about the soft left coming back to power? Is Sir Kier proletarian enough for you?
ReplyDeleteYou write: 'Please vote SNP if you live in one of the thirty-seven constituencies where Alba or Angus MacNeil are not standing'. Would you then endorse the advice, 'Please vote Alba/Angus MacNeil in any constituency where they are standing, even if the SNP are standing too?' It's what I would do, but unfortunately Alba aren't standing where I am, so I voted SNP.
ReplyDeleteNeither ALBA or ISP are going to win a seat. Do you not see that as a problem?
DeleteAll Alba and ISP are going to do is split the pro indy vote, potentially handing seats to unionist parties.
DeleteA crazy situation.
What about the Greens?
DeleteThey're standing in more seats than Alba & ISP combined, are polling higher than both but they're also expected to not come anywhere close to winning a seat. They'll be taking a lot more votes away from the SNP letting unionists in.
A fascinating and crucial stat tonight will be how many seats did Alba's vote cost the SNP, versus how many did the Greens vote?
DeleteYou can bet your life the SNP loyalists will bang on about the first one, but never mention the other. I suspect the Greens will come out ahead on that ignominious count.
James is an Alba member and has no choice but to formally support the Alba candidates, due to the conditions of membership. However within those confines he's gone as far as he can to explain why splitting the vote in a FPTP election is a terrible idea, and that people would be better advised to vote SNP.
DeleteIf SNP MPs are their goal, yes.
DeleteBut for many of us, they are not. Not for all the good they've done for us, sitting on their hands all the way through Brexit. This election is to judge them. The voters do as they choose. That's democracy.
Borteiskels is presumably new to the trolling lark. Still, good entertainment and light relief on a difficult day.
ReplyDeleteIt's abundantly clear that there is no route to independence via Westminster ,and it's also abundantly clear that the SNP group are actively working against independence, going by their inaction over the egregious waste of mandates and inability to affect government policies detrimental to Scotland.
ReplyDeleteIn that respect this GE is totally irrelevant to the cause.
Maybe stop trying so hard to appear clever when your content is nonsense.
DeleteActually, its repercussions will be relevant. But all of those are made in England.
DeleteDoes Farage win in Clacton? Does his party come 2nd in the total popular vote? How heavily does Starmer steer his attack on Reform instead of the Tories now? How heavily does the BBC and the rest of the media promote Farage as effective leader of the opposition and Reform as the next government in waiting? How far down the rabbit hole does England leap? Are they on their way to joining Italy and France? Do they go full Trumpist?
That will certainly affect the case for independence. So too will Labour's own government. How badly do they treat Scotland? How much of a spiteful resource grab will "GB Energy" be? How disappointing will Gordon Brown's reforms be? What does Scotland get from the reform? What will they take from us next?
And how does Labour split this time in power? They were terribly behaved under Blair and Alastair Campbell. Has Starmer got the clout and the enforcers that he needs?
Then there's what happens if UK gets involved in Ukraine. What happens if Trump wins and America pulls its assistance. Etc. etc.
So the incoming government does bring a whole host of things, as does the potential for realignment in England to a new 2-party politics that does not include the Tories, if they really do fall apart. A lot is up for grabs. In England.
That's Britain!
Anon@1:15,
DeleteAll very well, but looks like the majority of Scotland is going to be Labour too.
For the first time in years the SNP are going to be pretty irrelevant.
The SNP was always irrelevant. "We will not be dragged out of Europe against our will!" Were we now? Oh, aye…
DeleteNothing like an election to bring out the best in folk. It’s no just the toys out the windy.. it’s the pram.. then the rest o the hoose n aw!
ReplyDeleteIf the house is out the windae is there not an existential crisis?
DeleteThrowing the house out of a window sounds like a job for Scotland's greatest political mind. Where's Lorna Slater? If it makes no sense, she can do it!
DeleteAsks KC.
ReplyDeleteAs if you don't already know…
https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2024/06/the-moderation-question.html
Reading all your posts and comments regarding voting for independence. I'm quite worried if alleged independence voters are voting Labour. The only political vehicle set up expressly to achieve independence is the SNP. Unless its reasonable Alba can take a Seat. They may not be doing enough, frustrating yes,
ReplyDeletebut voting Labour is packing up the tent and forgetting about it. Labour will likely try to diminish the Parliament already in place. Anything else is a vote for the continuing UK in its current form. Odd ideas.
Alba Shaor!
Here's Gaelic activist Calum MacLean who explains Alba Shaor;
https://www.tiktok.com/@caldamac/video/6951783511686745349?lang=en
Strange post.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who votes for a unionist party was never an Indy supporter. Abstainers and ballot spoilers are just silly and/ or gullible.
ReplyDeleteWheesht for indy!
DeleteGood grief there are survivors? We have all moved on from that infantile unionist trope, except you apparently. Deary Deary me.
DeleteIt doesn't follow logic to vote for the UK Union via Labour et al, and say you want independence.
DeleteLike prescription charges, best performing NHS, lowest child poverty rate, tuition fees, bus travel, personal care.? The list goes on. But you vote to put all that at risk. Well done.
ReplyDeleteUm, isn't all of that decided at Holyrood and would be what we're debating about in the lead-up to the 2026 election?
DeleteYou do understand those powers can and will be removed by Starmer?
DeleteI suppose it’s hard to mark and X when it’s your name.
ReplyDeleteX, Malcom. I'd vote for him if history had let me! He knew all about the House Jocks who "represent" us in parliament.
DeleteI just get a sense that the SNP vote has hardened up over the past few days .Lots of "I'm no happy " I wasn't going to vote for you ,but I am after all.
ReplyDeleteStarmer being boring and bland saying nothing controversial will have worked in England but Scotland is different he needed to do more to switch voters from the SNP in England he just needed to be not the Tories
Will that be enough with those not inspired to vote at all in the election?
DeleteLike the Rutherglen and Hamilton West By-election is a good example. The Labour vote didn't really increase much but they won by default as former SNP voters just didn't bother voting.
Will that hoary old myth never die?
DeleteI mean in 2019, Labour received 19,101 votes. In 2023, Labour received 17,845 votes. That's a decrease of −6.57%.
DeleteIn 2019, SNP received 23,775 votes. In 2023, SNP received 8,399 votes. That's a decrease of -64.68%.
So what? That's the *net* decrease for both and takes no account whatsoever of switchers.
DeleteTurnout was 29.3% lower from 2019 as well.
DeleteSo you either expect us to believe that a large segment of former SNP voters switched to Labour or the more plausible explanation is that SNP voters just stayed at home (thus not a myth).
Turnout was down. The SNP vote was sharply down. The numbers really do speak for themselves. I expect much the same today, nationwide.
DeleteI have friends who've switched to Labour, all Yes voters.
DeleteSo it is a fact in my experience.
The SNP lost c15000 votes in that seat - either they switched to Labour (unlikely as the Labour vote also declined) or they stayed at home. What other explanation is there?
DeleteMusical chairs? 🤷🏼
Delete"So you either expect us to believe that a large segment of former SNP voters switched to Labour or the more plausible explanation is that SNP voters just stayed at home (thus not a myth)."
DeleteThis is apparently going to shock you, but yes, I expect you to believe there was a mass swing from SNP to Labour, because to state the bleedin' obvious, that is exactly what happened. Turnout does not fall off a cliff and only affect one party, even though that appears to be your crackpot theory. So yes, it is a hoary old myth, and I'd be grateful if you'd stop misleading people by peddling it. Many thanks.
Sorry James but a drop in the number voting labour cannot possibly be anything other than a drop in the number voting for labour. Are you seriously saying there was not a drop??
DeleteWHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Do you honestly believe that comment makes any sense? Friendly, gentle hint: no it doesn't.
DeleteThat list of Alex Salmond's achievements are all well and good but ultimately I want Independence fulfilled, something the SNP has clearly abandoned. It's been 10 years and still they sit on their arses doing nothing, with no plan. Reward that if you really want to but don't expect different results.
ReplyDeletePrecisely.
DeleteAs both of you sit on your arses and complain! The lack of awareness as to the stupidity of staying at home ( unless you postal vote) and allow the unionists a free rein. The smugness of the I abstained/ spoilt my ballot/ ate my ballot with the hamster I’m a real Scot brigade is something to behold.
DeleteWhat don’t you get? We are angry at the SNP. So we aren’t voting for them. You understand that’s what voting means? A vote is your support. They aren’t getting it.
DeleteWhat is the Alba plan to get round Westminster s refusal to negotiate Independence? Shout louder .
DeleteThey don’t have one, other than the same one SNP are proposing.
DeleteDamn even Nicola Sturgeon’s sister is staying at home!
ReplyDeleteAre the polis in her garden too now? Where will it end!
DeleteI saw that too. No doubt some on here will claim she's a Britnat M15 plant😁
DeleteNah. But her heart is just where her sister's is: nowhere near independence!
DeleteIf she can't even persuade her own sister to bother turning out, it tells you that they know the game is up.
DeleteIndependence has been on every SNP Manifesto for WM and HR from and including 2015. They have always received a clear majority, 56 from 59 in WM was the top score.
ReplyDeleteThey have had Mandate over Mandate and opportunity over opportunity.
They have refused every possible time to use the power and situation that was given them to go for independence.
As for their corruption, missing 600,000 quid, scape-goating of AS, gender woowoo and cowardice in general.
So why should we be willing to do it again?
No thank you.
Indeed.
DeleteDon’t think you voted SNP or independence in your life. But watch out you have one person agreeing with you. Probably yourself! Lol
DeleteLet me agree with them both.
DeleteI voted Yes in 2014.
I voted SNP in 1999-2021.
Never again until they get their bloody act together. To hell with them, and all their mates in London.
Aye , he's a Britnat , probably English.
DeleteHows the 77th mess room today?
DeleteYou've only a few hours to wait now to find out who we are.
Deletemandates are like nectar points - you need to get quite a lot before its worth much. But another win for the SNP and the ukgov position will be untenable.
Deletemissing money does not always mean there is fraud
DeletePlease Sir Keir, can we trade in 150 mandates for a section 30 coupon?
DeleteMan dates? That's sexist! They are nonbinary fruit bodies, thank you very much. #nohate
DeleteAnon@ 4.27, come on pal. You can’t honestly believe just ‘one more’ electoral win will suddenly focus the mind of the SNP?! Nothing will ever change - THEY DONT EVEN TALK ABOUT INDEPENDENCE ANYMORE!!! It wasn’t even on the SNP flyer put through my door!!!
DeleteI'm sure there are other cranks living outwith this country who spout crackpot views to see how many gullible souls will pay him/her attention and money. Fortunately, they tend not to have their own websites and find themselves restricted to posts on Facebook or videos on TikTok of themselves dancing. In earlier times they used to amuse themselves by sending poison pen letters to people or doing heavy breathing from public phone boxes.
ReplyDeleteHi Rev, posting here already, has wank over scotlands site posts dried up?
ReplyDeleteSuprised you advocate labour given your experience in a legal action with an MSP.
Ps did MI5 blackmail over what they found on your computers when the Poileas siezed them?
Revs comment I replied to has been removed, was not replying to comment above me now from Iain
Deletethis author was moved by that comment
ReplyDeletethis author needs removed
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteGlad to announce both the wife and I voted against the SNP and went with Alba party candidate Debbie Ewan, good luck Debbie you'll do us proud.
ReplyDeleteIs it not better to vote for someone or something.
DeleteVoting against someone isn't actually an option on the ballot sheet.
I’d have voted Alba if they stood in my seat. They did not. Just a young hip evidently Sturgeonite SNP candidate and ditto for the Greens. They can both get stuffed.
DeleteShe might even save her deposit !
DeleteThe idea is to vote for something not against something.
DeleteWe are all in the dark here - I'm an SNP member and am equally disappointed and confused . I wouldn't quite agree that they have achieved nothing . In terms of independence yes but , notwithstanding Britnat propaganda, they have done a fair job in HR. Perhaps we need Sarwar as FM to see how bad Labour is and to realise SNP government was nae sae bad.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the day , to keep at least the idea of independence alive, we don't want the SNP to lose too much ground because that means replacement by unionist Labour/ tory / liedems. And the britnats will shout about it.
If we want to send a message to the SNP , the time to do this will be HR election 2026 because its not just FPTP but has the list vote on which Alba could win seats.
Co aige tha fios? Fa Ken's?
Saor Alba
The problem with 2026 is that we could very easily end up with a Labour Scotgov. There’s a lot more at stake in Holyrood, where the election is for Scots by Scots, than at WM where our fate is just a minuscule oddity of a sideshow in England’s parliament.
DeleteNow is the time to punish them. Not 2026.
"they have done a fair job in HR"
DeleteThat's debatable considering we're on our third First Minister within a year and a half.
Even just since the resignation of Nicola Sturgeon, we've seen the Deposit Return Scheme postponed several times and eventually shelved, and the National Care Service has yet to come to fruition. The SNP Membership Numbers Row, the Ferry Construction Debacle, the Gender Recognition Reform Bill Controversy, the Police Investigation into SNP Finances, the Michael Matheson iPad Scandal, Peter Murrell’s re-arrest and charges, the COVID-19 WhatsApp Messages Scandal, the resignation of the SNP's auditors, leading to financial reporting issues and the Scottish Government itself was very nearly brought down when the Greens were kicked out.
We haven't had a stable time in Scottish politics and it's very understandable why people have lost faith in the SNP.
Hear hear. Imagine if Labour had just been through all that. We’d be laughing at their rank incompetence. You just can’t stay in power when you’re as shite as that at running a government. The voters will reject you.
DeleteIn 2026 you’ll say wait till Westminister elections in 2029… and so on.
DeleteI don’t think support for indy will fall if Scotland votes with the UK and elects a Labour government. I therefore think you have to be brave and vote for another pro-Indy party until such times as the SNP take independence seriously.
For the attention of the little band of trolls from a few days ago who refused to believe (or at least pretended to refuse to believe) that any of their fellow trolls are ever abusive, please note that I was called the C word on this thread. The comment was up for two hours before I deleted it, but if you somehow managed to miss it yet again, I'm happy to supply screenshot evidence to the email address of your choice. Your anonymity might be affected, of course, so I can totally see why that might be a problem for you.
ReplyDeleteI saw it. Knew you had to delete it, obvs. Anyone one when it’s against them personally.
DeleteBesides the c*** bit it was quite a piece of satire. The detail about bringing a pen into the polling station had me chuckle. But aye, naebody needs abused like that on their own website.
My preference is that they learn the lesson and get radical on independence. But if they’d rather die as a party first, then so be it. No more votes from me. They’re done until they’re back to independence.
ReplyDeleteBe the SNP of 2007-2014 and we’ll be there for you.
how do we keep the tories out if they just get back in on the list
ReplyDeletedepends on the hondt multiplier; this is the number you put next to the party
DeleteWrong system, mate. Numbers are STV.
Deletedang thats a bit of a coupon buster
DeleteThanks Jackie Baillie for such guidance.
ReplyDeleteThat was me at 3.34 pm.
ReplyDeleteI'm Salvo and Liberation.scot and was for a while Alba because I want a free and independent Scotland.
Left the SNP middle of 2016 because even then the writing was on the wall that the SNP was chickening out of anything that meant independence.
So any trolls, Britnats. and unionist weirdos get go and do something anatomically impossible. F.o.
I stand by every word:
"Independence has been on every SNP Manifesto for WM and HR from and including 2015. They have always received a clear majority, 56 from 59 in WM was the top score.
They have had Mandate over Mandate and opportunity over opportunity.
They have refused every possible time to use the power and situation that was given them to go for independence.
As for their corruption, missing 600,000 quid, scape-goating of AS, gender woowoo and cowardice in general.
So why should we be willing to do it again?
No thank you."
How's Salvo coming along in the polls ?
DeleteRemember RISE?
At no election or referendum have a clear majority of Scots voted for Independence until we do that all talk of a mandate for Independence is nonsense.
DeleteYou can bully or batter half of Scotland that consistently votes for the Union into Independence.
The barrier to Independence is not the SNP it's not even Westminster it's the half of Scotland who want to remain part of the UK
Anon@7:55, well said.
DeleteSalvo? Response of 99.99 per cent of electorate in Scotland.
DeleteVoting for SNP Wokists wont get us Independence.
ReplyDeleteI think the greens problem is they have not been radical enough, backsliding on the highly popular LGBTQ+ antiracism and diversity pride train. Harvey and Slater need to talk the talk and walk the walk; Harvie and Slater need to go for the surgery in order to inspire the people; if I knew that Patricia Harvie had a vagina and Lorna a penis constructed from thigh-flesh I would not hesitate to give my vote. I want to see an indy Scotland where trans surgery is free, to all the world, and carbon neutral; we shall offer it to all migrants and asylum seekers. We can become a vanguard for the world. Net zero, penis zero.
ReplyDeletewhy do they have exit polls for this one? We didn't need them in 2014
ReplyDelete- can't they just ask Ruth Davidson what the result is, she seems to know things.
The importance of LGBTQ+ to modern Britain cannot be understated; recent discoveries by cambridge homosexuals with maths degrees have shown that, after hormone treatment, trans identified women-of-penis, start to secrete a hydrocarbon like substance from their nipples - this can be used as fuel. Thus, the strategic intent of uk energy policy is to convert vast swathes of land to become : queer farms. The LGBTQ+ people will be milked twice daily in order to supply our energy needs, get to net zero and keep temperature change to less than 1.5C
ReplyDelete