Basically what he's trying to claim this time is that Ross Greer is an antisemite who seeks the total destruction of Israel because he used the words "Victory to Palestine". This requires several stages of convoluted logical gymnastics, and some of them are rooted in outright factual inaccuracies.
Campbell claims that Greer's support for Palestine must mean that he's siding with Hamas, because "Palestine has no traditional armed forces, and in so far as it has a government, that government is also Hamas". Not true. If he was referring only to Gaza he'd have a point, but Gaza is only one part of the Palestinian territories. The other part is the West Bank, which is slightly bigger in population terms and much bigger geographically. The autonomous parts of the West Bank are governed by Fatah, not Hamas.
Campbell goes on to make a variant of the same false claim when he says: "What else could “Victory to Palestine” possibly entail? The closest thing it has to a legitimate government is Hamas". Rubbish. The most obvious way in which 'legitimacy' is conferred is by international recognition, and Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah is universally recognised as the President of the Palestinian National Authority. Around two-thirds of the world's countries also recognise him as President of the sovereign State of Palestine. If Campbell is talking about democratic legitimacy, it's a score draw between Fatah and Hamas, because Fatah won the last presidential election and Hamas won the last parliamentary election. But both of those elections were an eternity ago, and the terms of office have long since expired. So neither government can really claim to be 'elected' as of right now.
Having tried and completely failed to establish that Greer's support for Palestine must mean support for Hamas, Campbell ploughs on regardless by claiming that the supposed support for Hamas must also mean that Greer wants the destruction of Israel, because "Hamas’ policy is unambiguous and unequivocal: the only acceptable resolution to the conflict is the complete obliteration of Israel". Curiously, though, the screenshot Campbell offers in support of this claim doesn't explicitly say any such thing, and if you read Wikipedia's article about Hamas, you'll find that there is scholarly disagreement over whether they still want to destroy Israel or whether their goal is now a Palestinian state within the pre-1967 boundaries.
Campbell further claims (and I think this is probably getting to the point where his words may be 'actionable') that Greer must regard the Jewish people of Israel as "sub-human", with a strong implication that he does so in a similar way that the Nazis looked upon the Jewish peoples within Europe. The justification here is that Greer said a victory for Palestine would be a "victory to humanity", which Campbell claims must be placing Israelis outside the concept of humanity, because he cannot conceive of any victory for Palestine that doesn't entail Israel's annihilation. But as I've demonstrated, one and possibly both of Palestine's governments support the continued existence of Israel within a two-state framework, so "victory to Palestine" could very well just mean the ending of the illegal Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, thus leaving plenty of room for Israelis within the concept of humanity.
Campbell's blogpost really is a dire and wretched thing, and I suspect some of his regular readers are going to be dismayed and bewildered that he seems to be calling into question the appropriateness of referring to Israel's actions as "genocide", even after the International Court of Justice ruled that genocide may plausibly be happening. They will also be disturbed that Campbell shares the Netanyahu view that it is impossible to support Palestine without supporting Hamas, and that expressing support for Palestine should therefore be illegal (he specifically calls for Greer to be prosecuted). I suspect there might be a touch of "my enemy's enemy is my friend" in all of this, but when your disdain for the unimportant Green MSP Ross Greer (which I share, incidentally) leads you to offer a degree of support for the worldview of the genocidal Netanyahu regime, it's just possible you may have lost a touch of perspective somewhere along the way.
Very disappointed in Rev Stu on this, I agree with most of what you say James.
ReplyDeleteIt makes you think: what if we'd had the Wings party rather than Alba. Would Stu really be imposing a pro-Israel-with-caveats stance on it? If so, he'd be at war with most of his members. Possibly a lucky escape there.
ReplyDeleteYou needn't worry, if the Wings party had been set up, it would have folded by now. If Alex Salmond could only get Alba to 1.6% of the list vote, it's likely that the Wings party would have got less than 0.5%, probably a lot less. Campbell's ego wouldn't have coped with that, and he would have wound the party up the very next day. I don't know if he's bipolar, but he does seem to be over-dramatic about setbacks, you could see that in the way he rushed to declare Alba a dead duck within a day or two of the election.
DeleteHe also simply cannot bear rejection. It became clear a few years ago, when Salmond got a little bit chummy with him, quickly realised he was a liability, and dropped him like a hot potato.
DeleteHis about-turn on Alba and their viability was instant. He had spent years singing the praises of Saint Alex of Salmond. A more avowed Salmond supporter you could not have found anywhere.
And suddenly, the moment Salmond correctly seemed to realise that this strange obsessive was a millstone round his neck, suddenly Alex was Saint no more.
Campbell is a pathetically transparent little man.
Well said James. Aye he has lost a "touch of perspective" and a bit more in delivering this article.
ReplyDeleteI listened to Hepburn the SNP independence minister in Holyrood the other day. I was seriously not impressed . When asked by Regan why after 10 years since 2014 no action on independence is taking place the best Hepburn could come up with is he is producing some papers and anyway it is the bad Britnats stopping us having our Indyref2. Oh and if somebody comes up with a proposal he will consider it. This guy comes across as a useless continuity chump getting a ministerial position and doing SFA. No wonder so many people have left the SNP. The SNP are not serious about independence they are taking the piss out of SNP numpties. The SNP have been taken over by lazy devolutionalists.
ReplyDeleteJamie Hepburn seems a decent guy, and I’m sure he will listen to any proposal that’s suggested to him regarding independence.
DeleteYou keep saying the SNP aren’t serious about independence but that’s simply not true, they are doing all they can.
Hepburn is the Independence Minister after all!!
That's too obvious a parody, you're making it too obvious, Anon!
DeleteI think Hepburn is doing a tremendous job. I really feel independence is getting closer by the day.
DeleteI'm really not sure who Campbell thinks he's catering to here. He got on board with Alba for a short while, but he very obviously didn't see it as anything more than an anti-Sturgeon grift. Quite unlike you, James, who got on board with Alba in the hopes it would be a genuine, clear-eyed alternative to the cautious establishment politics of the SNP, he very obviously just viewed it as a convenient vehicle for shrieking dementedly about the evils of Sturgeonism - the poor little fella would be nothing without his demented shrieking, after all.
ReplyDeleteBut most anti-Sturgeon, anti-SNP indy supporters are also very, very pro-Palestine. Some far more-so than the SNP have been. There's next to no crossover between independence supporters and the sort of swivel-eyed Netanyahu-esque diatribes that our swivel-eyed little friend has now embarked on.
Hopefully the last stragglers of the independence movement who still read his strange pronouncements will now see him for what he is. A small-minded man with a weak intellect and a fragile ego who cannot bear how often he is wrong, and lashes out with fury when he is.
Good riddance.
If anyone is trying to find the very small overlap between support for Scottish independence and sympathy for the Netanyahu position, judging from the comments on the Wings piece it seems to consist of the Reverend Stuart Campbell AND Andy Ellis. We mustn't forget poor wee Andy.
DeleteAnonymous@8.48 - are you implying Campbell is still an independence supporter? That's highly debatable! He said he'd abstain if a second indyref was held now. (Not that he'd have a vote anyway, because he doesn't live here.)
DeleteSome useful fact checking there James. I read the Wings article and felt he was over reaching. However, the basic point is about the optics of an elected MSP vehemently supporting one side in an unwinnable, historical blood feud. Obviously, Sunak did it and was rightly vilified by all sane people who strive for peace. Ross Greer has foolishly now done the same and should be called out too.
ReplyDeleteNo, that isn't Campbell's basic point. His basic point is that Greer should be prosecuted for something which he claims Greer did but quite patently did not - ie. call for the destruction of Israel.
DeleteThe status quo is not neutrality - the status quo is the illegal, decades-long Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. To that extent, most of us are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause of ending the occupation and in that sense we are not neutral. It's not about picking sides in a historical blood feud, it's about being able to tell the difference between right and wrong. Israel are occupying another country and they should simply get out.
I broadly agree, James, but I'd add one caveat. Although there was nothing wrong with what Greer said, it was clearly and intentionally provocative, which leaves him on much weaker ground when trying to police the speech of others on other topics, as he regularly tries to do ("be kind and thoughtful in your use of pronouns", etc, etc).
DeleteBut yes, wanting him thrown in jail for siding with Palestine is nuts, as is Campbell's contrived reasoning for why he should be thrown in jail.
Terence Callachan Dundee here , what Mr Greer said is not provocative in the ordinary sense of fair and respectful discussion and comment , i too want victory for Palestine the victory being the return of the land Israel have stolen from them by force , that is what Hammas are fighting for too that is why Hammas attacked Israelis and captured some , Hammas are holding hostages because they want Israel to return the land they have stolen and they want the many many Palestinians Israel are holding in captivity for breeching the very very strict living conditions and rules that Israel impose on them to be released, its farcical how the world media ignore the cruel inhumane treatment of Palestinians by Israel over many years that has caused Hammas to fight back .
DeleteI read the piece on Wings. While I would not agree with all of what Stuart said, I did think Mr Greer's behaviour and language sounded in places to be bordering on the injudicious.
DeleteI regularly read your blog and don’t always agree with your opinion but don’t usually comment. However, after reading the Wings post I have to say that I agree 100% with your opinion. I was disgusted with Wing’s attempt to attack Greer by using the tragedy of the massacre of innocent Palestinian civilians by Zionist Israel. Not only was his biased tirade factually incorrect it gave support to the recent attempt by the Westminster parliament to link support for the Palestinians as “Islamic terrorist supporters” and a danger to MPs. This moves us one step closer to the banning and crimininalising of any form of protest. One’s opinions on the possible genocide of the Palestinian people bring out the best and worst of people and by writing such a one sided, historically and morally load of bullshit Wings has shown where he stands.
ReplyDeleteHello Mr Kelly , Terence Callachan Dundee here , you say in your last para
ReplyDelete" and I suspect some of his regular readers are going to be dismayed and bewildered that he seems to be calling into question the appropriateness of referring to Israel's actions as "genocide", even after the International Court of Justice ruled that genocide may plausibly be happening. They will also be disturbed that Campbell shares the Netanyahu view that it is impossible to support Palestine without supporting Hamas"
You are correct , a good number of Mr Campbell,s followers are showing disagreement with him on his WOS site with their comments , lets face it anyone who doesnt want the ceasefire is crazy , this intentional killing of children in particular has to stop and the people who have continued it should be prosecuted.
I used to appreciate wings over scotland i bought their badges etc pre 2014 referendum but in recent years its gone crazy , extreme , unreasonable , i said so on the WOS site and got banned for saying it , the comments on it are nasty and people there do not discuss anything all they do is make silly comments.
Hello Mr Kelly , Terence Callachan Dundee here , at 8.25am today you said
ReplyDelete" The status quo is not neutrality - the status quo is the illegal, decades-long Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza. To that extent, most of us are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause of ending the occupation and in that sense we are not neutral. It's not about picking sides in a historical blood feud, it's about being able to tell the difference between right and wrong. Israel are occupying another country and they should simply get out."
That is absolutely correct thank you for making that critical point , i would like to add that Hammas lit the fuse to this Israeli genocide of Palestinian people but it was done because nothing has been done for decades by anyone to protect the Palestinian people from the terrible treatment of them by Israel , it happens all over the world , we have our own example in Northern Ireland where the IRA lit the fuse to fight back against the treatment of Catholic people in Northern Ireland , i dont condone such reactions but i do understand why they happen , there is only so much cruelty and unfairness people can put up with before they lash out and sometimes when they lash out its with real fury releasing pentup anger and frustration built up under extreme oppression over many years , South Africa another example.
A new generation of freedom fighters will be born because of what Israel are doing to Palestinians .
It's almost like another wedge issue, the mother of all, to divide and rule the Independence movement now people are bored of the trans stuff
ReplyDeleteHardly. There's no real divide in the indy movement on Palestine. It's just Campbell and a couple of his most diehard fans against everyone else.
DeleteThe trans stuff as you put it , was never really a problem for our population , there were consultations and suggestions and proposals then it was used as cannon fodder in Englands British war against Scotland , we have been bombarded with "british" we have been saturated with "union jack flags" we are being brainwashed with english propaganda saying " everything Scottish is rubbish " .
DeleteThere is not a single thing that the Scottish government led by SNP can ever do that will not be met with disdain from england all done because little england really is little , Scotland makes england look bigger than it is , england use the term "british" as a substitute for english , their long term plan is to make Scotland a part of england erradicate our language change how we speak they tell us to "speak proper english " cease our national practices , they steal our inventions and ideas and present them as their own and they rubbish anything Scottish, the truth is that most english folk know hardly anything about Scotland and most of them have never been here .
Hi anon I totally agree, we've been united on that issue. I'm just saying it's another attempt to divide.
DeleteI've come to the conclusion that a new supra-convention is required to bring everything under one banner re independence grassroots. We need to get away from criticising each other and bring back the positivity and dare I say it good humour that we seemed to have before. It needs all sides to bury the hatchet though.
@10:13. England does act like UK=England, yes. If they really wanted to eradicate Scottish identity, though, they have all the power to do that. Abolish Holyrood, pass territorial integrity laws like Spain has in its constitution, and prosecute Scottish separatists until we’re all in jail or given in.
DeleteIt’s more of an indifference thing with them. When they remember we exist, their natural Tory bully boy instincts kick in (Eton does that to a young man) and they treat us with contempt and scorn. The fact we stick around and put up with it—complicit in our own abuse—is all the proof they need that their union is safe and sound and eternal.
We need Scottish leaders with will, determination and gumption. Without, well, our posh boy school masters are quite right about the carping lot of us.
The indifference of England is not ur primarily issue. We have a strong Scottish identity despite our neighbour and even those against independence consider themselves Scots (on the whole). It's convincing the Scots we need to worry about. We have about half, need to push on. English arent going to do it for us.
DeleteTerence Callachan Dundee here , it was my comment at 1013 hrs , forgot to input my name , in response to 1042 hrs you said
ReplyDelete" yes. If they really wanted to eradicate Scottish identity, though, they have all the power to do that. Abolish Holyrood, pass territorial integrity laws like Spain has in its constitution, and prosecute Scottish separatists until we’re all in jail or given in."
Its early days yet , look back just to the sixties when Malta declared independence from england , there was more than just indifference , england will send in the armed forces when Scotland becomes an independent country no matter how big a majority vote for it and indpisonment of leaders is a given but we have not reached that point yet ,they have issued warnings to us trying their best to imprison our two most recent leaders be assured worse is to come as our younger generation Scottish people outnumber the english and british supporters.
My response to comment 1117 hrs is that its not the Scottish people we need to convince , even those Scottish people who vote against Scottish independence do not do it because they dislike the idea of Scotland being an independent country per se they do it because the decades of english propaganda has persuaded them that Scottish is inferior to english they worry that they will have no money and that an independent Scotland will not be able to pay their State retirement pensions or their work pensions or their other benefits they worry that the cost of their mortgages will be more than their income they worry that an independent Scotland will be invaded by China or Russia they worry that nobody will buy Scotlands oil and gas and fish and whisky and gin and dairy produce and vegetables and fruit and electronics and chemical and brainpower etc etc etc why do you think Scotland is the only country with a coastline on the north sea without a ferry service or shipping service ? england shut down all the passenger and transport of goods from Scottish ports in the sixties thinking ahead they made sure we cannot have closer contact with Denmark Holland Norway Sweden Poland Lithuania Latvia etc etc no tourists from there which we would have if independent.
Scottish ports on our east coast Dundee port and Leith etc were taken out of the control of Dundee city council and Edinburgh council then privatised then sold to London ports who then sold it to Canada , Dundee and Edinburgh port authority are actually owned by the Canadian civil service workers pension fund.
Our wind power off the coast of Dundee and Aberdeen huge energy farms have been sold to foreign companies who have just decided that instead of giving Scottish people the benefit of their green cheaper wind power they are selling it to Amazon to power Amazon warehouses and Google to power their offices etc.
why so ? english propaganda , time and time again supporters of Scottish independence have pushed back the english propaganda but with every single newspaper pushing it and every tv channel and every radio station plus big businesses that splatter union jacks on everything including Scottish produce the psychological effects are overwhelming.
Terence, if you want to input your name, just select "Name/URL" from the drop-down menu. The URL part can be left blank.
Delete@Terry
DeleteAnd yet, given everything you’ve just said, we consistently poll 50:50 for independence. What a place to begin!
My morning is about the leadership of the Yes movement—which for now must be the leadership of the SNP—who sit and wait and wait and wait and have been since 2014. We’ve got to push again. A new campaign with an effective indyref on our hands: via de facto. Why are we waiting? Because SNP careers depend on keeping us stuck exactly where we are right now? Argh!
I’m generally positively minded about our prospects, though. England’s going back to Labour for a while, and Labour with BritNat it hard all over Scotland. That ought to refocus the debate on our identity and our Indy in the medium term. But first they’ve got to have their win and mess it all up. It’ll get better but we’re in for a rough patch first.
What’s crucial is we have a leader ready and able to pounce when the moment is right, it will be after Starmer’s honeymoon is over. Don’t waste it! Nicola’s shown us all what that gets us.
Typed on phone. Morning = moaning. I don’t feel that dejected! As I go on to explain: we’ll have our chance soon enough.
DeleteYou’re on!
ReplyDeleteRev. Stuart Campbell played a key role in the lead-up to the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. His advocacy resonated with many Scottish people. As the movement continues, it is worth pondering his role in the future. Maintaining relations, even amidst differing opinions, may be helpful in retaining a united front in the campaign for Scotland’s self-determination.
ReplyDelete“Reverend” Stu is definitely a guiding star of our inspiration for us all to follow when it comes to unity and amicable dispute. We can all agree.
Delete100%. For the good of the independence movement all supporters of Scotland’s freedom should rally around the most grown up and sensible man in the Bathtub. Vote Wings!
DeleteI'm not quite sure how AI-generated defences of Stuart Campbell should fit into my moderation policy.
DeleteQuite a little strop you have thrown there ma wee lamb
ReplyDeleteIs that you, Stu? Don't be bashful, announce your presence properly.
DeleteI read his blog after the shannanigins in Westminster the other day for the first time in ages and I can't believe he was ever considered someone worth reading. He really is extremely objectonable and a hateful pathetic individual who constantly attacks powerless groups and he should be ignored and dismissed completely
ReplyDeleteStuart Campbell is the brains behind the Little Blue Book which persuaded a lot of Scots of the case for independence. Now, he has got his critics, but the way I see it Campbell's like that bold friend who's not afraid to stir the pot and challenge the status quo. He's controversial, but he's also an attack dog who goes sniffing out and digging into stuff others in the mainstream media won't touch. Sometimes he gets it right, sometimes not. Like him or not, he's got a knack for getting people talking about difficult issues, even if they don't agree with him.
ReplyDeleteWell...there may be good reasons why sensible journalists don't ask obviously stupid questions like "were the victims to blame for Hillsborough?" I mean there is "ralking about difficult issues" and then there is just plain wrong and daft.
DeleteIs Campbell still an Alba member?
ReplyDelete