Friday, February 23, 2024

The autumn of the wrong side of history

Probably a betting person would say Lindsay Hoyle is still likely to cling on to his job, but from a historical perspective he's now become one of the very few Speakers who does/did not enjoy more or less universal support and respect among MPs.  I suspect it will bother him greatly that several dozen MPs have openly called for him to go.  In his quieter moments he must wonder if he would be on firmer ground today if he hadn't made the bizarre decision to visit Israel in November with the Israeli ambassador to the UK, Tzipi Hotovely, described in her Wikipedia biography as a "far right diplomat".

But there are any number of people who would be on stronger ground now if they hadn't said and done some very strange things back in the autumn.  I've gone back and taken a look at an article put out by the Spectator on 15th October entitled 'Ireland's disgusting response to the Israel attack'.  What was so disgusting about Ireland's response?  Basically a number of tweets by random people (which of course the Irish government had no control over) and Leo Varadkar urging the Israelis to act responsibly.  The bastard.  What you're about to read are genuine quotes from the Spectator.  They are not a parody.

"Rather than offering unequivocal support and succour to the Israeli people, he began scolding them and stood up in the Dail to warn that any response ‘must be proportionate’...What does that even mean? More than a thousand Israelis have been slaughtered. Young women were raped over the bodies of their dead friends. Holocaust survivors have been kidnapped and brought to Gaza as human shields (or worse) and 260 children who were attending a rave in the desert were brutally slaughtered and defiled. And Varadkar is worried about a disproportionate response?...To make matters worse, Varadkar warned the Israelis that they would quickly lose international solidarity if they went ‘too far’...Varadkar then slammed Israel for cutting off water and electricity to the Gaza Strip, saying: ‘To me, it amounts to collective punishment. Cutting off power, cutting off fuel supplies and water supplies, that’s not the way a respectable democratic state should conduct itself.’...The sickening scenes in the Dail continued throughout the week. Mary Lou McDonald, head of Sinn Fein, ludicrously called for an immediate cease fire."

Can anyone doubt in retrospect that Leo Varadkar and Mary Lou McDonald had it completely right and the Spectator had it completely wrong?  You'd be forgiven for thinking from the text above that the scale of the 7th October attack by Hamas somehow made it arithmetically impossible for any Israeli response to be disproportionate, and yet here we are, only a few months on, and at least 30,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israel - around thirty times the number of Israelis killed by Hamas in October.  At least 12,000 Palestinian children have been killed, around thirty-three times the number of Israelis killed at the music festival.

And it's not as if Varadkar needed any special foresight to know that Israel was likely to go much too far unless it was pre-emptively reined in by the international community.  Time and again over decades we've seen that Israeli responses to attacks have been crazily disproportionate and have ended up causing ten, twenty, thirty times as many civilian deaths as the original attacks.  It was entirely rational in October to be largely preoccupied with the unspeakable horrors the innocent Palestinian civilian population was about to face - unless of course you're a Spectator columnist who thinks one Israeli life is worth as much as one hundred Palestinian lives, as in fairness most Spectator columnists probably do.

With the benefit of hindsight, the few western leaders who got the tone spot-on by extending huge sympathy to Israel but warning that there could be no blank cheque for revenge attacks do not look like the "disgusting" ones.


  1. Careful now. Writing like this could set off the infamous leftist thugs who stalk the privileged political class at every turn.

  2. It was a very good plan by the Tories and they've won
    Starmer looks bad, the SNP denied democracy, big win for England

    1. Are you on drugs? Can anyone make sense of this?

    2. Above 12.07pm is an example of the naivety of this blog and its contributors, you don't even know when England has made an absolute backside out of you
      This deal to stuff the SNP was planned an executed by Labour with Tory support, then the Tories made a fool of Labour by turning on the deal and appearing to support the SNP

      So in the end the Tories won by making fools of Labour and successfully cutting the SNP out of their motion day with no blame attached to them, they even sent Penny Mordaunt out to explain how they were going to screw them

  3. James, the Irish perspective is an interesting one. Not much reporting over here about it. Very messy at times: the Israeli Ambassador calling the Irish President anti-Semitic, calls for the ambassador to be thrown out of the country, appalled by the violence against civilians the Irish looked at ways to support South Africa's case at the ICJ, some voices in favour of the Irish themselves reporting the Israeli government to the ICJ but we know there are procedural rules around that. While other countries stopped support for UNRWA Ireland increased theirs. Is all of that anti-semitic? The Israeli response has been to declare the Irish as anti semites, on the Israel Basketball Association website Israeli player said “It’s known that they (the Irish) are quite antisemitic, it’s no secret...we know they don’t love us..." due to five of the Irish team refusing to play against Israel because the Israeli team posed with soldiers from the Israeli Defence Force alongside an assault weapon after the IDF had been killing civilians in Gaza.

    So much is not reported here except in terms such as that of the Spectator. We create an atmosphere where the world is painted as behaving like the UK but it is not so. Mexico and Chile reported the Israel Hamas war to the ICC for example, not covered at all on the BBC, but an ill dancer was covered extensively - that's news UK style. Many countries have taken diplomatic action against Israel either withdrawing ambassadors or suspending relations - Bahrain, Belize, Bolivia, Chile, Colombia, Honduras, Chad, South Africa, Jordan and Turkey. Not much coverage about that here either.

    What is apparent, is the false view of world politics presented to the population of the UK so that we discuss everything through that filter. Such a false picture is difficult to remove. However, one thing is for sure, we are all powerless, our governments do what they wish. And does it really matter if this is a genocide or not? For what it certainly is, is a massacre. Isn't that enough?

    1. Independence supporters will not be surprised at the distorted picture the Britnat media presents. You are totally correct - it is a massacre on an enormous scale whether or not the ICJ declare it a genocide. Personally, looking at the definition of a genocide, I believe what is happening in Gaza fits like a glove - a genocide glove. Make no mistake anyone if you vote Labour of Tory you are voting for parties with leaders who are happy to see this genocide continue. Not just blood on their hands but swimming in blood.

    2. IFS, I’ll be voting for the party with the best chance of beating the SNP, ie the Tories where I live.
      You seem to think because of the Gaza situation people should vote for pro independence parties. This is just typical of Nats, trying to score political points out of a tragic situation, just as Sturgeon did during Covid. It’s pathetic and just shows how truly desperate Nats have become.

    3. Britnat anon at 7.15pm - Like so many Britnats you just keep getting things wrong. Nowhere in that post do I say vote for pro independence parties. So often I think these Britnats must be Britnats because they struggle to read properly.
      I'll repeat for a Britnat numpty like you. I said if you vote Tory or Labour you are voting for parties whose leaders are swimming in blood. I note you do not dispute they are swimming in blood. You could vote Lib Dem if you want. What is pathetic is your inability to read properly and your lack of concern over these party's leaders not wanting a ceasefire after nearly 4 months of killing, maiming and orphaning children. Your morals seem to align with Sunak. You are so stupid you don't even realise you are a nat - a Britnat.

    4. IFS, it’s utterly ridiculous to suggest the Tory and Labour leaders don’t want a ceasefire. Everyone wants a ceasefire.
      Stop posting nonsense.

    5. Anon at 7.57pm - " everyone wants a ceasefire" - that may well be the case but Sunak disnae want one right now - he literally just said so.
      " everyone wants a ceasefire" - aye but some want a ceasefire when all the Palestinians are dead.

      " everyone wants a ceasefire " - aye but some only want a ceasefire when all Hamas are dead.

      " everyone wants a ceasefire " - aye but some only want a ceasefire when all the Israeli hostages are freed ( they don't care about the > 6,000 Palestinian hostages held by Israel).

      " everyone wants a ceasefire " - aye but some want a ceasefire after all the Gazans are pushed in to Egypts Sinai desert.

      Starmer fits in to one of the above categories, but as ever, he is as clear as mud what his ever changing position is but he disnae want a ceasefire NOW.

      So stupid anon I am not posting nonsense. Read my post above I said not wanting a ceasefire after 4 months of killing. I put a timescale on it as in NOW.

    6. Britnat anon at 8.58pm - " IFS, you know best" the only accurate statement you have made in your posts. Now if you don't want to vote for a party that aids and abets killing thousands of children and lots more to come in future months don't vote Labour or the Tories. If you are a bloodthirsty psycho then you know who to vote for. Glad to help clarify the matter for you.

    7. It’s, you’re just being ridiculous.

    8. Britnat anon at 9.17pm - I thought you said I know best. You are changing your mind so quickly you must be a Starmer supporter. Starmer may not have reached the levels of lying reached by Trump and Jonson but he is catching up and making great strides forward. Although he was recorded clearly saying Israel has the right to cutoff food, water and medical supplies from Gazans he is now saying he didn't say that.

  4. Colonial power = Israel. Colonised = Palestine.
    Occupying power = Israel. Occupied = Palestine.
    Oppressor = Israel. Oppressed = Palestinians
    Stealing Land = Israel. Land stolen = Palestine.
    Murderers = Israel. Murdered = Palestinians
    Justice system = Israel. No justice system = Palestinians.
    Human Rights = Israel No human rights = Palestinians.
    Apartheid good = Israel Apartheid bad = Palestinians.

    Supporting countries of this situation = USA, UK, Germany. Yet the Britnat media say the UK is the good guy. Throughout history colonised people are oppressed, their resources/land stolen, their human rights removed but when they fight back the colonisers call them barbaric animals who need to be taught a lesson or wiped out. The great statesman Mandela was once vilified by Thatcher as a terrorist. Indeed he and his colleagues did terrify the evil regime in South Africa. Were the French resistance fighters terrorists in WW2 or freedom fighters.

    Currently the Israel government have said there will never be an independent Palestine state. It is not unreasonable then to think the Israelis want a greater Israel with no Muslims on the land. A similar end game to the American Indians or the Australian aborigines. Pitiful few left. The difference is today there is the Internet and social media. A genocide cannot now be hidden.

  5. The sooner the Muslim and Arab nations are crushed the happier Western politicians will be, what do you think the crusades were about?
    The West has been wanting this to happen forever
    The hand wringing and pearl clutching is entirely fake for voter consumption only

    The same as Russia and Ukraine, Britain's arms sales to Russia by indirect back door routes has gone up by 60%
    War is a money earner for Britain now, they can't fight one themselves but they can help to engineer them and sell arms to both sides
    Yaay! it's the modern world

  6. Bloody hell. Campbell of Wings has really gone for the Greens this time. Gone way too far in my opinion. He equates Greer with Nazi storm troopers and looks like he is trying to get him prosecuted as a Hamas supporter. Now I am no fan of the Greens ( including Greer) but trying stitch ups of people you don't like to send them to jail reminds me too much of Sturgeon's gang.

    1. It also reminds me of the stitch up that Mr Wee Ginger Dug tried on with Campbell himself a few years ago. When did it become in vogue to try and falsely accuse people you don't like to send them to jail. Just not acceptable to any decent person. So Campbell joins Sturgeon and Kavanagh in this distasteful grouping.