Wednesday, February 15, 2023

The race to succeed Nicola Sturgeon is about to start: is Kate Forbes the only potential candidate with enough stardust to win independence?

I was mildly bewildered to wake up this morning and discover there's a splash about me on page 4 of The National.  I literally said to the Random Totty "must be a slow news day". Well, it's not a slow news day now.

My guess is that Nicola Sturgeon's decision to resign is genuinely personal - her heart is probably no longer in it, or perhaps that elusive UN job we've speculated about for years has finally come up.  In spite of the relentless propaganda to the contrary, her position was certainly not politically untenable - as very recent polling evidence shows, she remains more popular than the leaders of all the opposition parties.  The timing is deeply odd, and some would argue even a tad irresponsible from the point of view of the independence cause, because it means the forthcoming conference to decide strategy on a de facto referendum will now be overshadowed by the leadership succession.  It would perhaps have been better if she had waited until the conference was over, although on the plus side this frees up delegates to make a genuine rather than "managed" choice.  (The conspiracy theory is that she was somehow forced out by the do nothing Stewart McDonald faction which will now try to seize control of the conference and prevent any sort of de facto referendum from taking place.)

Ms Sturgeon's superior personal ratings in the polls explain why, if she had announced this decision a couple of years ago, I would have been horrified, and convinced it was a brutal setback for independence.  She's now become such a polarising figure that it's possible, on balance, that a change at the top might be a net positive, because there's an opportunity for a more unifying leader to take over.  But the operative words in that sentence are possible and opportunity.  An equally possible outcome is that Angus Robertson will be the successor, and will stay in office for a decade, in which case those who have been pursuing a crazed 'decapitation strategy' against Ms Sturgeon over recent weeks and months will end up wondering what on earth they've been doing.  In terms of policy and strategy, Mr Robertson would probably stick very close to the path charted by Ms Sturgeon.  'Careful what you wish for' as a commenter on the previous thread said.

Since the pro-independence government first took office in 2007, we've been blessed to have had two First Ministers who are recognised as being among the most talented politicians of their respective generations across the whole UK, and perhaps even the most talented of the lot.  But there was nothing inevitable about that - Alex Salmond's immediate predecessor in his second spell as leader was the managerial and bland John Swinney, who polls showed had completely failed to connect with the electorate.  If the SNP end up with someone like that again, it could essentially make independence unwinnable for years to come, even leaving aside the question of whether that person continues with Ms Sturgeon's overly-cautious strategy.  I actually like Angus Robertson on a personal level, but I do fear he's more of a Swinney than a Salmond or a Sturgeon.

We absolutely must have a third successive leader with a bit of stardust if we're going to win independence, and my gut instinct is that person might be Kate Forbes.  Perhaps Humza Yousaf is a touch more charismatic in a conventional sense, but he's got a real arrogant streak about him which would alienate too many voters.  Another possibility would be to draft Philippa Whitford in from Westminster (admittedly a complex process which might require an interim First Minister) - I could easily see her having enormous public appeal as leader on a kind of "Mary Robinson" basis, and I'm not just saying that because she has an Irish accent.  But my guess is she won't put herself forward.

The snag with Kate Forbes is, though, that although I'm reasonably convinced she has sufficient personal appeal, she's a completely unknown quantity - at least to me - on her attitude to independence strategy.  It may be that she'd be the ideal person to keep the SNP winning elections, but wouldn't have the determination and gambler's instinct that may be required to get us over the line for independence itself.  So I'll reserve judgement until I hear what she has to say in the coming weeks - assuming she even stands at all, of course.

Lastly, I'll just note that my first tiny inkling that today's shock news was on its way came in a knowing tweet from Kevin Hague a few hours ago.  If he was in the loop, it increases my suspicion that the mainstream media and what passes for a 'unionist blogosphere' are essentially one and the same thing.

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63 comments:

  1. There's is new hope for Scottish independence. Please SNP do not blow it again. Elect a leader that actually wants independence.

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    1. Not you Keaton or any of the WGD numpties who kept punting the line that Sturgeon would deliver independence. She didn't even deliver the many times promised referendum. She did, however, appoint a Unionist Lord Advocate and established that it was illegal in English law for Holyrood to hold an independence referendum. A record any Britnat would be proud of.
      Anyone believing she is going because she is feeling a bit tired is a numpty.

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    2. An anonymous numpty posted on SGP a few days ago that the polis investigation into the missing £600k ring fenced Indyref2 funds was closed was today told by Sturgeon at her press conference that it was an ongoing investigation. This anonymous numpty said it was all Unionist lies that it was still a live investigation. Is Sturgeon a Unionist then anonymous numpty or do you want to admit to getting it wrong?

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  2. At this stage, all it is, is a roll of the dice. To be seen if we actually get a better number. Someone who can set a new direction and can develop and capitalise on a new broom sweeps clean meme.

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  3. maybe a joint yes leadership given the situation of Fiona and angus MacNeil as part of a yes coalition to move this on from the last 8 years, not sure how the SNP would work it but I think they would make a good combination with a broad appeal to all sections of the party, and the Aim types can always drift to the greens which many see as there direction anyway. onward and upward.

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  4. One potential positive is that this allows the holding of an early Holyrood election (and referendum) without it looking indulgent.

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    1. Keaton - "indulgent" - get a grip. I'll remind people what I posted way before the Holyrood 21 election - a serious leader for independence would have declared a vote for the SNP in the Holyrood 21 election will be taken as a vote for independence not another referendum. This would have been a proper response to the continued no to a sec 30 by May and Johnson. But no the numpties went along believing Sturgeon would deliver a referendum. Sturgeon was and is a time waster. She told us what she was when she made her " surrender " speech in Jan 20. Numpties chose to stick their heads in the sand.

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  5. It's a shock for sure, but when you examine the evidence both recent and since the Holyrood Election there's been enough analysis about to suggest that this day was coming.

    It's undoubtedly sad, but I can't help but feel that the reasons she set out are the correct ones - that after doing this all these years that she's tired and has lost her enthusiasm and energy for the job. Leadership is a combination of a clear vision, organisational ability and the ability to energise others through your charisma. To deliver indy you need all three and she's felt that she can no longer deliver.

    On the runners and riders, like yourself I'd like to see Phillippa Whitford, given her professional status outside of politics and general focus on the mission / no nonsense approach.

    Human Yusuf is a gameshow host in the same way as Derek McKay was. All entertainment but no depth of thought or experience outside of politics.

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  6. Kate Forbes is a must. Smart, educated, good "backstory", relateable, she's handled one of the main jobs. But can already see unionists - sorry, "the press" - will attack her for age (which is nonsense) and religious beliefs (which is also nonsense). Would anyone want to be bothered dealing on a daily basis with Scotland's gutter press, whose low IQs and standards were on full display during Sturgeon's announcement? Yousaf is, unfortanately, too lightweight and arrogant, and Robertson is centrist/right establishment smarm. Call Kate!

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    1. She's 32, which I think is the absolute bare minimum to be considered credible as a possible leader. Two years younger and I'd have said no. Austria recently had a Chancellor who was roughly her age - it's not really the norm, but it's not a ridiculous age to be doing it, as long as it's the right person.

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    2. Anecdotally, Forbes seems (relatively) popular with people who are scunnered by the SNP's feet-dragging around a referendum. But I'm a bit worried that support is because of her stance on GRR, rather than anything to do with independence.

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    3. Dont forget Kate has recently become a Mum so I doubt she will put herself forward.

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    4. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss criticism of Forbes's religious views. She runs the risk of producing the 'Tim Farron' effect - promising not to let her personal views affect policy, but being constantly mired in questions about them nonetheless.

      If you think the press won't hound Forbes from day one for being an anti-abortion evangelical, I think you're in for a rude awakening.

      Whether that's fair or not is besides the point. I don't personally think it's fair, so long as it doesn't have undue influence on policy. Nonetheless, it could be deeply damaging to support for independence. One of the draws of Sturgeon resigning is the attraction of divisive social issues no longer consuming as much airtime.

      With Forbes, we run the risk of the media and public simply substituting discussion of one unpopular social view with another.

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    5. Although it could be that you wouldn't get rid of discussion about the first one without her.

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    6. You could be right of course, but as you've pointed out over the past couple of weeks, James, the veto has at least provided scope to draw a line under the gender debate for the time-being. Sturgeon's resignation provides an even greater chance to draw a line under it - an opportunity that any incoming leader, Forbes or otherwise, could (and should) feasibly take.

      On the other hand, I struggle to see how Forbes will feasibly be able to distance her politics from her personal views. By which I mean, I can't envisage how a media hellbent on destroying the independence movement would pass up the opportunity to cast the next FM as anti-woman/Trumpian/alt-right/evangelical. It's low-hanging fruit of course, but they'll be salivating to sink their teeth into it if given the chance.

      I'd rather someone who wasn't at the forefront of the gender debate got to nod. But preferably that person won't also hold views that mean the media's attacks, rightly or wrongly, will write themselves.

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    7. It's kinda hilarious considering the racist, sectarian, mysognist, homophobic and transphobic views of so many unionists and their media. Clean your own hoose first.

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  7. Now is the perfect time for Flynn to get all pro independence MPs to withdraw from Westminster. Why not make him leader at the same time? Have him in Scotland but outwith Holyrood in order to concentrate fully on independence.

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  8. So my comment the other day about the SNP needing a forest fire to make way for a new generation was eerily prescient. While I’m on a hot streak let’s try again: the new leader will dissolve Holyrood and win a snap election with 99.9% of the vote (only Kevin Hague votes against), leading to independence on Jan 1st 2024. Yay!

    More seriously, Kate Forbes is a good shout. She needs to wear her religion lightly mind you, but in principle she could be a great choice if she wants it.

    I wonder too about Angus Robertson, and have been a bit puzzled by the negative comments on this site about him. My perception of him (from a distance) is that he is smart and could be a reassuring presence to those on the other side that we need to persuade. Maybe those more closely involved can say something else though.

    Otherwise I can’t help but like Stephen Flynn. He’s had some beautifully pointed questions at PMQs. He seems to channel and control that rage against the Tory establishment very well.

    Finally, let’s hope that the forest fire also gets some more sensible people into the positions of power within the SNP. Starting at the top.

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    1. I don't think Kate Forbes can "wear her religion lightly". She takes her religion very seriously from what I can see. As much as I admire her I think her strong feelings on certain subjects, which might not tally with her religious beliefs, would prevent her from governing for everyone.

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    2. "He seems to channel and control that rage against the Tory establishment very well."

      He certainly does appear to channel and control that "rage" but maybe because he's more keen on being part of the machine than raging against it. Just a thought.

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    3. Anonymous - if you are puzzled by the comments about Robertson then you must have been living like a hermit in a cave for the last few years.

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    4. if only they had the balls to do this.

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    5. You’ve rumbled me. It’s true that the cave doesn’t help me keep up with the news. But please take pity on me, what’s the issue with Robertson? Is it specific policy positions he’s taken, or more of an objection to his style?

      The only thing I can that of is the NATO thing, but that was a long time ago, and given recent geopolitical developments maybe it isn’t as controversial as it was? Normally we’re quite keen to take the Nordic countries as an example to follow, and since they all either are or want to be NATO members, is it such a problem? Whisper it if you dare, maybe he’s been proven right.

      I don’t pay much attention to SNP gossip, so apologies if I’m missing something that should be obvious. My question is a genuine one so I’d be grateful for some insight. I‘ll most likely have the chance to vote for or against him after all, would be good if I can do so on an informed basis.

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    6. Hi buddy ! How's the weather in Somerset ?

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    7. You might need to mug up on Angus and his wife and there involvement in the Salmond stitch up. Wasn't he also the one who changed SNP rules to take the power away from the members and grant it to the leadership? Angus would be more disastrous for Indy than Nicola.

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    8. Ok, thanks for the tip! I’ll get googling…

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    9. Anonymous man in a cave. It has nothing to do with NATO. There is no point in having a leader who is " reassuring presence to those on the other side" if they ain't going to bother to try and get independence. Robertson is Sturgeon's pal and would be Sturgeon mk2 - can kicking down the road would continue. Robertson and his long term pal Peter Murrell are implicated in the Salmond persecution.

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  9. As ever, the mad as a bucket of frogs British/Irish liar has got his finger on the pulse, the WGD polling expert shares his expert insight with the numpties:

    "scottish_skier says:

    February 15, 2023 at 9:42 am

    Kindae thinking the utterly desperate plan was to try and get Sturgeon to resign somehow. Like she would buckle under fake trans pressure, cos, you know, women are ‘helpless weak victims’ like that. Get ‘tired’ when the going gets tough and so forth, unlike macho men.

    Throw a couple of (dubious) bad looking polls into the mix. Get Salmond to call the Irish ‘daft’, stirring the division pot. Have every media outlet hound Sturgeon personally, including the BBC. To hell with trans folks. Screw trans kids and their parents; get the BBC to ask ‘are trans [teenagers] real or fake and dangerous?’. Make sure people the length and breadth of the UK are eyeing anyone that look a bit ‘trans’ suspiciously. So what if this causes hate crimes to rise; it’s only 0.5% of the population.

    Sturgeon will resign ‘like women do under pressure’ and the union is saved. To hell with the consequences for minorities already being subject to increasing abuse / prejudice.

    It’s failed. SNP + Green VI completely unchanged."

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    1. The FM resigning is one way to start the process to a Holyrood election, isn't it?

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    2. Extraordinary general elections.
      (1)The Presiding Officer shall propose a day for the holding of a poll if—
      (a)the Parliament resolves that it should be dissolved and, if the resolution is passed on a division, the number of members voting in favour of it is not less than two-thirds of the total number of seats for members of the Parliament, or
      (b)any period during which the Parliament is required under section 46 to nominate one of its members for appointment as First Minister ends without such a nomination being made.

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    3. That did make me chuckle when I read that. Of course now a couple of hours latter his line is that her resignation was always the plan and shes martyred herself for the grater good. The man really does not have a clue

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    4. Poor old Skier - whatever happens is always part of the secret SNP masterplan. If Sturgeon announced in a few months she was joining Alba to put back together the Salmond/Alba partnership Skier would claim this was all part of the SNPs secret masterplan for independence.

      No doubt Dr Jim will be setting up a crowdfunder to erect a statue in Edinburgh in Sturgeon's honour. I mean Dewar got one for moving the Scottish sea border to accommodate England. Sturgeon beats that by a mile - she got Indyref2 declared illegal. Sunak thanks her for her service.

      Skier/Jimbo/Hamish - they are all a bunch of idiots and they still do not even realise that fact. Dumb Dumber and Dumbest.

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  10. Can't help but see parallels with Jacinda Ardern, both in terms of fatigue with the role (Sturgeon) and a role model (Forbes)

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  11. I'm not one of them any more but I wonder how much of a say in choosing a new leader the party members will get.
    Several possibles might give us a decent shot at independence before hell freezes over - but please, please not Robertson.

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  12. I saw Nicola Sturgeon's announcement and had mixed emotions but agree that she is now such a target for so many different (yet oddly linked) groups that a new leader is essential to ensuring a Yes win. I'm not sure who the next leader could be although I too would love to see Phillipa Whitford in the role, and wouldn't have too much against Kate Forbes provided she can any crackpot (AKA religious) views to herself.
    When Nicola Sturgeon opened the floor to questions, I thought James Cook's contribution was a real measure of the man and the organisation he represents. I doubt if he would be employable in a similar role in any other country.

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  13. (The conspiracy theory is that she was somehow forced out by the do nothing Stewart McDonald faction which will now try to seize control of the conference and prevent any sort of de facto referendum from taking place.)

    Not a conspiracy theory for me.
    Don't think it's quite as strong as she was forced out,

    but that she had finally decided, after much deliberation, to come out on the side of a de facto referendum and was struggling to deal with the increasing resistance to the strategy from factions within the SNP and she couldn't support the push for the perpetual delay tactics which seem to be garnering support from within the higher echelons of the SNP.

    She was also being attacked from the more ardent independence activists for her inaction on independence and the suspicion that her purported support for a defacto referendum wasn't genuine or she would somehow backtrack on her intention to hold one.

    That's without trying to fight against the unionists and British establishment and all the furore and hyperbole surrounding the GRR Bill. When you're being attacked from all sides you may just wonder what's the point.

    This now paves the way for the great climb down at conference and years of more inaction.

    Ultimately Sturgeon's procrastination and caution did for her, she lost the goodwill of those who had a sense of urgency on independence due to her years of inaction but she also couldn't fully capitulate to the do nothing faction which left her in limbo with nowhere to go.

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  14. Alba and the SNP should merge with Salmond as a senior advisor, not a leader, to form a new party, along with Salvo, PFI, etc. Properly unite the movement. Cherry, Hanvey, Kenny MacAskill on a committee along with Sarah Salyers, Robin MacAlpine, Alf Baird, as well old school SNP members would be step in the right direction. The SNP need a root and branch clear out. They are corrupt, as the police investigation and Stewart McDonalds emails will show.

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    1. ALF BAIRD?! Are you on drugs?

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    2. Professor John Robertson for my money.

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    3. Comedy gold ! The unelectables.

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  15. Like you've said James, I believe Nicola has resigned for genuine personal reasons, I imagine eight years in the role must have exhausted her. Although I found myself increasingly disagreeing with the direction she has taken the SNP in, I respect her hardworking and dedication to the role over the years and she has my best wishes for the future. It feels like she has been First Minister forever and it's hard to believe the Sturgeon era is finally coming to an end.

    Looking ahead, I have no idea where the SNP goes from here. I genuinely like Kate Forbes and I don't mind her personal views at all. She is allowed to have these and I've seen no evidence these would interfere as leader or as FM. I also think her distance from the recent controversies amd being a newcomer could be the fresh start we need. But I do fear her relgious beliefs and views on abortion make her potentially divisive. Her religion also makes her an easy target to mock and these jokes have already started on Twitter. I also think she would be seen as a bit of a right wing culture war candidate by some which could make the leadership congest ugly.

    Having said that, I'm struggling to see what other choice would make any sense, maybe barring logistics Stephen Flynn or Angus Robertson? Or maybe someone unknown?

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  16. Derek Stillie, former footballer and serial unsuccessful CON candidate, was Tweeting about the resignation early this morning if not even earlier. One wonders how that intel found its way to him.

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  17. Numpties now saying the special SNP conference now needs to be put back to the Autumn to allow a new leader to be chosen.
    More time wasting. Sturgeon's final gift.

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  18. Joanna Cherry for leader, of course.

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    1. I agree with that in principle, but in practice there may be just too many SNP members who loathe her.

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    2. Cherry now saying Peter Murrell should go as SNP C. exec. Couldn't agree more.

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    3. why do they loathe her? Is it because she's too pro-independence for them as they're nawbags?

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  19. Well I know who the alphabetties will want to be the next FM but the Vietnam whatssapp will be busy over the next few weeks and no doubt a few more Valium than usual will be swallowed.

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  20. Well I am fucking delighted, and the fact that some people are still too dimwitted to see through the unionist cuckoo will never fail to astound me.

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    1. You still Alba should stand against Joanna Cherry and Angus MacNeil at the next election, Craig?

      "Unionist cuckoo" indeed!

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  21. You gotta love Stephen Flynn, already calling for the special conference to be cancelled. There he is controlling that rage again.

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  22. I predicted last September she'd resign about now - I confess, for a small moment I wondered if she'd hang on till Spring conference because of GRR but she's weary and done.

    No great loss - she marched us up to the top of the hill and back down again till we lost impetus.

    She took a powerhouse indy movement in 2014 and killed its momentum at every turn (except come reelection times).

    Is the indy movement any further ahead after a decade ? No.

    We need a new leader whose priority is indy - who uses the opportunities to drive a solid wedge between us and the Brits.

    Kate Forbes isn't it - great and all but too young and not rugged enough.

    I like David Linden - I also like Keith Forbes.

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  23. Who's Keith Forbes? Never heard of him.

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  24. Replies
    1. All right, I'll just say what everyone else is thinking.

      John Mason.

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  25. A lot of hate from the WGD numpties towards Joanna Cherry.

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    1. Got to be seen as a positive. So, after all that she ran away!

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  26. next leader needs to expose labour wounds - brexit,devo crap,not center left anymore

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