Tuesday, February 21, 2023

Some free advice to Kate Forbes and her campaign team (before it's too late)

I said last night that I thought Kate Forbes' personal popularity meant that she'd probably be able to come through the current controversy relatively unscathed, but that there was also an alternative school of thought.  A day later, it looks increasingly like the alternative school of thought is being proved right, with several of Ms Forbes' prominent backers hurriedly abandoning her.  I must say the actions of those people is pretty extraordinary, because Ms Forbes' views on social issues were already well-known before yesterday, and if it was being automatically assumed that she was bound to publicly walk those views back, that was astoundingly presumptuous. But nevertheless what has happened creates a kind of 'reverse momentum' that encourages other people to withdraw support or to start looking upon Ms Forbes as an unsuitable candidate.  In a nutshell, the wheels seem to be coming off her campaign, which leaves us staring into the abyss of a victory for the candidate who polls show is by far the most disliked by the public.  That would be a grotesque outcome, and it would not come about because anyone particularly wants Humza Yousaf as First Minister. It would instead happen by default because there aren't sufficient people willing to make a positive choice for either of his opponents.  Ms Forbes doesn't have enough support due to the strength of her religious views, while Ash Regan is hampered by being less well known than the other candidates, and to some extent also because of her stance on the gender issue.

There's still one obvious way that Kate Forbes could prevent this calamity, however.  If she simply reverses what she said about watering down the independence strategy, and announces that she will instead be sticking with Nicola Sturgeon's plans for a de facto referendum, she would rally committed independence supporters to her banner.  Those people would be prepared to forgive her all manner of things if she would only give them a strong enough reason to, and the prospect of winning independence in the near future would be enough to do the trick - especially as her leading opponent now looks like essentially a devolutionist candidate.  And the beauty of it is that nobody would be able to paint her as a mad radical, because she'd simply be keeping faith with Nicola Sturgeon's own policy - it would be up to Mr Yousaf to explain why he wanted the SNP to perform a U-turn.

Kate Forbes with charisma, experience at the highest level of government, and prepared to offer a credible path to independence in the here and now, would be a package capable of overcoming the disadvantages that have become so apparent over the last 24 hours.  But remove the red meat for independence supporters from that package, and I'm no longer convinced she can win.

We are currently on a trajectory leading to a Humza Yousaf leadership, and thus potentially a unionist government after the 2026 Scottish Parliament election.  Someone in the SNP has to take decisive action to change that trajectory before it's too late, and I'd suggest the greatest onus at the moment is on Kate Forbes.

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50 comments:

  1. Can an MP stand? At least for leader if not for FM?

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    1. Yes. Alex Salmond was an MP and not an MSP when he was elected leader in 2004. Nicola Sturgeon (ironically) was his choice as SNP group leader at Holyrood between 2004 and 2007.

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  2. I turned on the TV about an hour ago to see her flailing around trying to dodge the question on whether she thought children should be born out of wedlock or not, so it's already moved on from gay marriage as far as I can see.

    Regardless of her actual policies or personal beliefs, she's going to be holed below the waterline because now all media questions to her are going to be along the lines of teasing out what specifically backward things she thinks because of her religious beliefs, regardless of what that means for SNP policy under her leadership.

    I think she's in deep trouble, and without a (thus far) particularly compelling prospectus on independence. Which means we're all in deep trouble because that probably means Humza.

    Anyway I've already decided if it all goes south and it's Yousaf who comes through then I can immediately rip up my SNP membership card and stop wasting a single femtosecond of my time angsting over their inevitable failure to progress the cause of independence and equally inevitable slide backwards towards Labour in the polling.

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  3. Maybe too optimistic but:

    If a sufficient number of 'suits' realise that Humza is going to lose them their jobs, and that Kate has shot herself in the foot, then might their best chance of saving their well paid btms be to go hell for leather at independence, via a Vote for Ash Regan, and then parade their heroic 'freedom fighter' credentials in the new Scotland.
    You could even say that we have a superb historical precedent for this in the political career of one R Bruce of the 13th/14th centuries !

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  4. BREAKING NEWS

    Politician tells the Truth. Britnat media and Sturgeonites outraged.

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    1. Humza Yousaf revealed to have lied and deceived about voting on gay marriage. Sturgeon says that's my boy you'll go far, perhaps all the way to the top. Humza says is being two faced sufficient. Sturgeon replies as many faces as you can muster, look at me .

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  5. Four years ago, shortly before I retired as a GMB organiser I wrote 3 times to Yousaf on the matter below as he was Justice Secretary at the time. I received no response. I believe he has brought the same level of indifference to the Health brief. I was then, and remain, a member of SNP but I will not support this excuse for a politician.

    https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/outrage-violent-criminals-transported-around-13981136

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  6. " Don't take this personally, but is independence not the cause."
    The words of WGD numpty Hamish100. When a thicko like Hamish can see what is all wrong with this debate what is wrong with others.

    What Hamish will never admit to is that Sturgeon has taken the SNP down this fruitless path and played right in to the hands of the Britnats - on purpose. No wonder she was all smiles earlier on today. Her plan is back on track but hopefully not for long.

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  7. Curious, no MPs trying for the leader position. I am left with a sense of relief that Mz S has pssd off - Regan seems ok but are there any men other than HY ?

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  8. Warned the other day that she risked becoming a Tim Farron figure. How quickly that has proven to be the case. It's frankly astounding that Forbes seemed to think the solution was to come out all guns blazing in her answers to obvious bear-trap questions, and betrays a lack of political nous. There are politically wiser ways to say much the same things she did (personal view doesn't equal policy) without actually expounding at length on what those personal views are! There's a reason Alistair Campbell told Blair "we don't do God" in this government. Keep your personal views out of discussion as much as possible. At best they distract, at worst they turn voters against you.

    The only thing that has been unpredictable about this whole stramash so far has been the oblivious gusto with which she has stumbled face-first into these obvious traps - especially with the example of Farron before her! I had assumed she would be getting SOME sort of public relations advice on how to best negotiate questions about her faith. But apparently not.

    The only silver lining here - if it could even be called that - is if she's sunk herself, she's done it before becoming FM. A Truss style leadership meltdown a month into the job would have ended the party's prospects in 2026.

    That may still be the case, of course, with Humza. But at least there is a chance now - if Forbes's backers are smart enough to take it - to either flock to Ash or find a new standard bearer before Friday's deadline.

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    1. She doesnt require 'public relations advice' to tell the truth however much of an anathema that may be for you.

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    2. “Anathema” and “electoral success” seldom go hand in hand. I’m sorry if that pretty major point is, in turn, anathema to you.

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    3. This isn't about the truth - but about the ways of saying the same truth. Look at the headlines now - Extra-marital sex also wrong says SNP frontrunner against gay marriage - (BTW this is now hurting SNP as well) - she is being made into the 19thC weirdo - some sort of Scottish Rhys Mogg.
      How about - I have nothing against other people practising extra-marital sex or having children outside of marriage, but I am personally married, had my children with my husband and don't practice extra-marital sex. That would've shut everyone up. Would she lie answering something like that or would it go against her religion - I doubt it. There is answer like this to every question she was asked and she'll be asked.
      And - this isn't about people knowing what her beliefs were and now being outraged and withdrawing their support.
      Firstly, most people didn't know much more than that she was religious (but my Granny's a very religious woman - and her views are far more liberal than this) and secondly even if they knew more about her, they didn't know she'd end up preaching to everyone.

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    4. She literally said she has friends and family who have had children outside marriage, and can celebrate those children irrespective - https://news.sky.com/story/kate-forbes-says-her-faith-means-children-outside-of-marriage-is-wrong-12816429

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  9. I see that skier is changing his position again. After repeatedly how he did not support Forbes he has no realized that his view is in the minority and now trying to switch it.

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    1. Well Skier gets so many things wrong it would be in keeping that Forbes pulls out of the race now. Skier twists and turns like a kite in the wind that he will always say he was proved right about anything. A cross between a fantasist, a Sturgeon propagandist and a diddy.

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    2. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kTHNpusq654

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    3. I’m not sure anti Forbes sentiment is in the minority - or will remain so if she continues aiming the gun squarely at her own feet.

      Which will make Skier’s potentially second volte-face in as many days even funnier.

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  10. Two optimistic readings of events. Firstly, Kate has got the dirty linen out early, hoping to move past it soon and still have a few weeks to recover. That’s a “courageous” choice, as Yes Minister might have put it.

    Secondly, Ash is keeping a low profile while the other two destroy themselves. Never interrupt your enemy while they’re making a mistake and all that. She can’t do that forever though.

    I’m still hoping for a forest fire to sweep through the SNP and make way for new growth. And as we all know, you can’t have a forest fire without Ash ;)

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  11. If you don't want Yousaf, the answer is to back Regan or hold out for another challenger to arise, as suggested with your previous post.

    Forbes' personal views may have already been known among the politically attentive, but that also created an expectation that she and her team would also be aware that they were... unconventional and would have prepared a strategy to reconcile them with public service which was slightly more sophisticated than... this. She has failed to meet that expectation.

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  12. Funny how Patrick Harvie was not outraged when he joined a Scottish government that included Kate Forbes. I don't believe he didn't know her views then. A Sturgeonite grifter.

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  13. Sturgeon saying she did not have a preferred candidate to replace her is as much a lie as when she claimed during the Parliamentary Inquiry she only found out recently who some of the alphabetties are. Humza is her boy unless of course he self ids as a Muslim trans women.

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  14. There is a way of negotiating being a person of faith in politics. And that is to keep it as personal and private as possible. Just look at Alex Salmond. You would scarcely guess from his political persona that he’s actually a fairly religious man, from a fairly religious family, for whom his faith is personally very important.

    But his intensely private approach to all things personal meant it never became a hindrance to political success.

    Kate Forbes would do well to take a leaf out of his book.

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    1. It's a pity God didn't tell him not to resign in 2014 because Sturgeon was worse than a dud and would stab him in the back.

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  15. Hey have the Britnat media and Sturgeonites said that Forbes has called for all gay people to be given a few lashes to put them straight. Sickening how hard they are having to trash Forbes because Scooter Yousaf is such a diddy. Ash Regan must be wondering what these people have in store for her. Some anonymous diddy whined that I wasn't a nice person. Have a good look at Sturgeon's gang it's right there in front of you.

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    1. Confirmed .. you really arent a very nice person...are you?

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    2. I agree with I for S.

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    3. Confirmed that you are a WGD numpty. 🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕🥕 - munch away.

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    4. They're not exactly having to try very hard at trashing her, are they? She's doing the bulk of the heavy-lifting. Whether you agree with her less conventional views or not, it shows an astonishing lack of political savvy to willingly extol them at length.

      Whatever next: Kate's thoughts on the ethics of divorcees? Her reaction to seeing a Sunday washing on the line?

      You may laugh, but judging on today's performances, she'd be only too willing to oblige.

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    5. That reminds me of Mischa Macpherson's explanation that this rather wonderful Gaelic song has a title that roughly translates as 'Oh my goodness I've just seen a boat on a Sunday' -

      https://youtube.com/watch?v=jSAQ1GdEnbw

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  16. Joanna Cherry needs to quickly reconsider her position and put her hat in the ring, otherwise this ship is sinking. We can work out the FM / MSP issue once she is elected, it needn't be a big hurdle.

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  17. I feel sorry for Forbes as she's only telling her truth. And I am perturbed by an intolerance of religious views.

    But this idea her "popularity" would pull her though? Folk barely knew who she was until today and en masse just about don't like what theyve heard. Is there polling of her being well known and popular with the Scots public? I'd like to see it.

    I was all for her but only based on guidance from those I trusted. They've got it badly wrong on first viewing with my own eyes and ears. Too young and naive. Good luck to her but she's no FM.

    I honestly think we'll be punished if this is the choice. And none of the rest look particularly brilliant either. Surely someone else must be considering an entry given this farce.

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    1. "Is there polling of her being well known and popular with the Scots public?"

      I've been covering the polling pretty extensively on this blog, so I'd invite you to simply look for yourself. There may now be a change due to the hysteria of the last 36 hours, but so far there's been a fairly consistent message from the polls that Kate Forbes is the most popular candidate with the public. She also appears to be better known than many others who were mentioned as potential candidates, including even Angus Robertson in at least one poll.

      In any case, in the comment you are referencing I was talking about her popularity with SNP members.

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  18. WGD numpty Dr Jim says:- " All this effort to discredit someone who'll only ever be the interim FM until Nicola's had a couple of years rest."

    Dr Jim the SNP's very own Nadine Dorris. Jimbo really really loves Nicola you know.

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    1. Then there is this reply by WGD numpty yesindyref2.

      " On the other hand she will be free to go flat out for Indy rather than having to run a country as well."

      Delusional or optimist?

      One numpty thinks she will be leaving Scotland for a big international job another thinks she will be back as FM after a couple of years and another thinks Sturgeon will now deliver independence after giving up her position of power. What are these people like. Surely they are not representative of the people who will be determining who the next FM is. Or have all the sensible people left for Alba.

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    2. Comedy gold. You should do stand up at the Edinburgh Fringe.

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    3. More comedy gold.

      WGD numpty and Sturgeon supporter Undeadshaun says:-
      " I think Kate Forbes is right person for FM, we need honesty not duplicity or lying."
      Well that would make a pleasant change from the last 8 years.

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    4. Do you troll the internet lying on every blog? people can look for themselves at the words and punctuation describing meaning and context, I just read it and you're a liar

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    5. Anonymous - duh - you're a liar. Another WGD numpty I have upset by posting the truth about them. Oh well you can't please everyone especially numpties who were told for years Sturgeon and her gang had no intention of delivering independence but were lying. Own it numpty - it's what you delivered. 8 years of lies by Sturgeon and her gang. Clearly Forbes is honest and that's why she is not part of the Sturgeon gang and that's why they are monstering her.

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    6. Anonymous at 7.23pm says :-" I just read it and you're a liar" Read what you WGD numpty. Calling someone a liar and not saying what the lie is and why it is a lie is all the proof I need to establish you are a WGD numpty too cowardly to post under your normal moniker.

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  19. More nonsense from WGD numpty jfngw:-" There is a concerted attempt to discredit Humza &Forbes, Regan is the candidate that Alba want elected."
    There has been no attempt to discredit Scooter Yousaf by the British media. No mention of him lying about his non vote for gay marriage by the Britnat media. They know he is a total diddy and want to discredit him after he becomes FM. I guess most Alba members would want Regan because she is the only one who says she will action Scottish independence. Forbes and Yousaf are do nothing about independence candidates. It's enlightening how many SNP people are more interested in GRR than Scottish independence.
    If SNP members vote for Forbes or Yousaf then the SNP is a de facto British party.

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  20. An example of how bad the pile on Forbes is the fact that Thewliss (Sturgeonite and Yousaf supporter) on BBC Politics Live is given air time to continue the religious pile on. Yousaf's religion is ignored. Yousaf not questioned. Disgraceful bias as ever from the BBC. Typical stuff from Sturgeonites.

    Will Thewliss be questioned about her decision/ values to take a child to a GRR demo standing with trans nutters who think it is ok to hold up signs asking for people to be decapitated and eaten - yes actually eaten. I doubt Forbes or Regan would attend such a demo with a child. Yousaf would probably attend if Sturgeon told him to.

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    1. See now this is the problem with culture war stuff. The trans activists have been stung by discovering their views are not as popular as they thought. Now it is the turn of the Free Church 'nutters' and their fundamentalist hellfire fuelled cult. Both sides perplexed that they don't enjoy the moral high ground they thought they did. The mistake of some gender critical activists has been to assume that the centre ground is as socially conservative as they are. Theyre now bewildered that 'middle Scotland' is not celebrating the elevation of the 'Westburgh Baptist Church' and its fundamentalist views . Which leaves the bewildered social moderates caught between the two groups, none more perplexed than them by these bizarro cults at different ends of the social spectrum.

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  21. She still needs to sharpen up her response on independence, and get it on a more mainstream platform, but you might find some comfort in the way she puts it in the video interview here - https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/watch-kate-forbes-very-sorry-for-any-hurt-that-i-have-caus-304162/

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  22. John REDACTOR MAN Swinney now enters the pile on. Didn't know he was a Christian. Didn't know there were so many accountant christians in Scotland. John it would appear is the correct type of Christian - Forbes not so much. All these people happy to work with this taliban type Christian in government until now - funny that. Swinney used to be called honest John. Now I am an non believer in any religion or god so not too sure of the details of honest John's religion but based on his actions during the Parliamentary Inquiry I feel safe in saying THE REDACTOR MAN may have sinned on numerous occasions.

    Hey not so honest John is Yousaf's Muslim religion ok in your Christian faith?

    Sturgeon has got her troops out on manoeuvres - no nastiness, lies or hypocrisy is too much for them and they are working in conjunction with the BBC. Independence supporters - your having a laugh.

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  23. All candidates so far in the ring have agreed to TV debates, which could be crucial.

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  24. Flynn sticking it to Sunak big time at PMQs on energy prices. He says gas price has dropped 75% so why is there a further price increase going ahead in a few weeks time.
    Truly amazing so many people in Scotland put up with this monumental rip - off when we have a massive abundance of energy. As long as the Britnats control the media then we will struggle to get independence support growing at a fast rate and a future as a colony of England will continue. Sunak had the brass neck to say they were the party who are opening up new fields/ supporting oil and gas. The same party in 2014 who said the North Sea was finished in 10 years - lying criminals in Westminster.
    Will Reporting Scotland show Flynn's comments?

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    1. Not a word from BBC Reporting Scotland despite the fact that they regularly report on PMQs.

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  25. Just read Alyn Smiths article in The National. The guy is a Britnat - plain and simple.

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  26. I guess if they just drown Kate Forbes and she dies then she's innocent

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