Friday, February 17, 2023

NEC member's arrogant "de facto is dead in the water" boast - this is beginning to look very much like a coup, or an attempted one

The front page of the Scottish edition of The Times leads with a headline claiming that the de facto independence referendum promised to Scotland by the SNP is now "dead in the water".  The supporting evidence in the text is that an anonymous source from the SNP's NEC says that the plebiscite election is "dead in the water, as it always should have been"  Now, this could well be an Alyn Smith type just shooting his mouth off in an attempt to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, and the arrogance of the turn of phrase does sound a bit like Smith.  (Off the top of my head, I can't actually remember if Smith is currently a member of the NEC, but even if he isn't, there's sure to be some 'offspring of Daddy' there.) But even if that's the case, it confirms the fear I expressed yesterday that there are at least some dark forces within the SNP who see the postponement of the special conference as not merely an exercise in prosaic practicalities, but instead as an early part of an elongated choreography that will eventually culminate in yet another betrayal of a solemn promise made to the people of Scotland that they will soon have the right to choose their own constitutional future.

On what possible rational basis could this Smith-like source have concluded that a de facto referendum is dead?  Certainly not on the basis of opinion within the SNP membership, which continues to strongly support Nicola Sturgeon's plan (not necessarily her choice of a Westminster election, but that's the only real point of dispute). And although conference delegates tend to be a bit more small 'c' conservative than the wider membership, it seems pretty likely that delegates would, if left to their own devices, choose one of the three proposed dates for a plebiscite election.  So the only conclusion it's possible to draw is that the Smith-like source thinks Ms Sturgeon's resignation has opened up a space for the process to be fixed by an elite.  Perhaps Ms Sturgeon was even muscled out of the way simply to open up that space.  Presumably the plan is that members can be gently coaxed into choosing a new leader who privately intends to ditch the plebiscite election, and can then be bounced into rubberstamping that plan when it is finally presented to the special conference. That sounds a hell of a lot like a coup attempt to me.

If Angus Robertson turns out to be the main standard bearer of the 'ditch the de facto' plotters, we've already had a sneak preview of how he might try to navigate the obstacle of a leadership vote in which the electorate are mostly people who support a plebiscite election.  When Nicola Sturgeon originally announced her policy, there were very obvious clues that Mr Robertson was not on board for it.  Instead of coming out and expressing his opposition publicly, he used formulations of words that attempted to redefine a de facto referendum as something much less than it actually is.  In particular, he called it "an election campaign in which independence is the key issue".  That's a completely meaningless statement that certainly does not describe a plebiscite election.  A party could campaign in an election on the "key issue" of marshmallows being fabulous, but that wouldn't give them a mandate to take any specific action on the whole Marshmallow Question.  In a nutshell, he'll use vague language intended to give the impression to members that he's continuing with Nicola Sturgeon's plan, but his words will be deniable enough to give him scope to ditch her plan within a week of taking office.  Don't fall for the ruse.

Here's the case for remaining optimistic, at least for now.  Students of history will know that coup attempts have a relatively high failure rate, and often produce results that are the complete opposite of what was intended.  On 19th August 1991 it looked for all the world as if the Soviet Union had reverted to hardline communism.  But by 22nd August the country was set on an even more liberal path than before the coup started, and by Christmas Day the Soviet Union itself had ceased to exist.  The anti-Chavez coup in Venezuela two decades ago fell apart on a similar timescale.  So the SNP plotters do not have to succeed.  Members have the power to stop them - although there's a huge danger of forfeiting any power at all for a very, very long time if the wrong leader is elected.

It's surely inevitable that at least one leadership candidate will emerge with a strong, highly specific and daring stance on winning independence in the very near future.  Whoever that person is will deserve the full support of SNP members - not only to save our chances of independence, but also because he or she will represent the only hope of salvaging SNP internal democracy.

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23 comments:

  1. It's hard not to feel very grim at the moment about the prospect of independence. I think this is the moment when the SNP becomes a Devo Max party rather than an independence party.

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    1. Not a devo max party..but a devo unionist party. There is no campaign for financial autonomy and it will never be given. All real yes are alba SNP are nawbags

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  2. I think the overwhelming majority of Scots would favour Devo Max TBH if you had a 3 way Yes/No/DM referendum.

    Not trolling as I know this is an Indy supporting site but I think that’s where we’re at, at the moment. The Yes/No opinion is never a million miles from 50/50 which also indicates folk probably want some kind of middle ground third way.

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    1. Nope, that's categorically wrong. At the time of the 2014 referendum you'd have had a point, but polls since then have shown a massive drop in support for a middle option. Devo Max (or rather Devo More because Devo Max was never going to be on offer) is an idea whose time has long since come and gone.

      And your claim that 50/50 results in polls must mean that people want a third way middle ground is a very obvious logical fallacy. It's perfectly possible for public opinion to be polarised between the two opposite ends of the spectrum.

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    2. Not the Vow mk2 crap again. Devolution max is a fools game. Devolution mini as at present is a fools game. You are either independent or Westminster rules. The Brits do not like their possessions getting too uppity - they would stop it in its tracks just as they did in 2014/2015.

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  3. So many unionists in the SNP party, I despair. :-((

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    1. The British state totally infiltrated the IRA and had its people committing murders to keep their cover going. It's not hard to consider that they would do the same to a peaceful organisation like the SNP.

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    2. Then there are alleged Independence supporters who eventually reveal their true Tory selves.

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    3. Devo Max only exists within Gordon Brown's imagination.

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    4. Third Craw - there was nothing eventually about Mike Russell. He told everybody he was a Tory a long long time ago when he wrote his book advocating privatising the NHS by handing out vouchers to everybody. Yet SNP members voted for him to be president.
      I'm guessing his phoney 11 point plan for independence is lying on the floor of his horsebox right now.

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  4. Not that I think the SNP hierarchy are at all concerned but it's very frustrating for those of us who want our say on the independence question asap but are not members of a political party. We are many more than the party membership. We have no influence on the situation at all. They don't even notice us except when it comes to elections and they need our vote.

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    1. That us kind of the point of being a member of a party. If you don't fancy the SNP, there is The Greens, Alba and possibly still the SSP. The more active participation, the more say you have.

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    2. That's easy to say, but many independence supporters do not have a natural home in any of those parties right now. The SNP have become intolerant of certain mainstream views, such as gender critical views, to the point of actually expelling people. The Greens are even worse on that score. Whereas Alba have recently gone nuts and seem to be hellbent on a scorched earth approach.

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    3. Thanks for that! I was an SNP member but not for some years. I've no intention, similar to circa 2 million people in Scotland who would vote for independence, of joining the SNP, Alba or Greens. It's all about what the SNP leaders want less so the party membership and everyone else ?who cares?

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  5. If true it is sickening. Even if it isn't true there is still plenty about this SNP leadership to be sick about.

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  6. SNP President Mike Russell he of the phoney 11 point plan and horsebox says the SNP need to press ahead with Sturgeons policies, more specifically waste money challenging the Britnat GRR veto. Just how did the SNP end up with Russell, a guy who wrote a book wanting to privatise the NHS by handing out vouchers to people. They tried the voucher thing in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. The oligarchs just bought the vouchers up for a pittance from the people. The bloody SNP have too many Tories in their midst and numpties have been blackmailing us to vote for them for years for independence.

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  7. From The National website today:

    "SUPPORT for Scottish independence was at 46 per cent when Nicola Sturgeon resigned and Labour are only two points behind the SNP at UK-level, a shock poll has found.

    The survey, conducted by YouGov for the Scottish Election Study (SES), suggested the SNP vote share at the next Westminster ballot box could drop to 29%. In 2019, they returned 45% of the vote share."

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    1. The 29% figure is completely bogus - see the newer blogpost for a full explanation. I first saw that nonsense in The Sun - if The National have repeated it without checking, that's rather disappointing.

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    2. That post by anonymous is exactly why I do not comment on polls until I have read what James has to say about it and even then not very often as I know very little about polling. It seems The National isnae any better clued up than me.

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  8. well if they show them selves up then more power to the alternatives in the movement, the time for deo max died since 2014, it might of happened but it will be used as a last ditch option by the yoon's if we ever get close to another vote, but that ship sailed, it would only get airtime from a percentage of the no labour and some libdem's. So it would really just brake the unionists.

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  9. Blair Jenkins, remember him, has been on the BBC punting the line that we just keep winning elections, get a consistent substantial majority for yes in the polls and we just SHAME Westminster in to agreeing a sec 30.

    What uttter utter pish. Westminster has no shame. What happened to Sturgeon's great new campaign and drive for Scottish democracy - just more carrots for the hard of thinking.

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  10. The mood music coming from senior figures from within the SNP is really not good. The great betrayal is very much afoot. Some senior sources quoted in the guardian yesterday on the condition of anonymity:

    "Speaking privately, senior sources acknowledged that with the next general election due in 2024 and a Holyrood election in 2026, it would be unrealistic to propose staging a second referendum until after those elections were fought or without a substantial, consistent majority in favour of independence."

    Another said: “............the focus needs to move away from the process around a referendum to sustaining popular support for independence.”

    As well as the likely lads Mcdonald and Flynn

    McDonald said, was “how do we get ourselves into a position where we get sustained majority support for independence and get ourselves to the promised land of a referendum we can win”.

    Actually lets not even get into 'you'll have to drag me from the union kicking and screaming Flynn

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