Saturday, March 6, 2021

For the attention of voters: please note that the result of the election is none of your business

So note the extremely careful wording of the above tweet. Mr Campbell thanks SNP members for giving him their votes. That's correct: some people voted him. He says he's proud that he will "top the batting order". That's correct: he will be top of the Lothian list. But what he doesn't do is thank members for voting him to the top of the list, or say that he is proud that they did so. And the reason for that omission is that he almost certainly wasn't the candidate with the most votes. He may not have been even close to being the candidate with the most votes, but the result was artificially altered to move him to top spot due to a rule that members weren't informed of when they cast their votes, and as far as I can see haven't been informed of subsequently. Nor have they been told what position Mr Campbell would have been in if the result hadn't been modified.

54 comments:

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  3. What are the SNP's chances of electing a list MSP in Lothian? Regardless, I can't on principle vote for a candidate who signed up to be elected via a racist process but it'd be nice to know it won't make a difference either way.

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    1. Short answer. We don't know. Longer answer. We can't say until the constituency votes are counted and by then it will be too late to make a decision.

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    2. I doubt it'll make any difference, but there's no guarantee - if the SNP lose constituency seats in Lothian they'd probably take list seats. For what it's worth, if I lived in Lothian I'd probably swallow hard and vote for Mr Campbell (even though he falsely accused me of racism a few weeks ago) simply because I can't see what the viable pro-indy alternative is at the moment. I suppose for some people the Greens are that alternative, but there's nobody else.

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  4. What were you expecting from people who would happily send an innocent man in prison to die because of a hashtag?

    I'm not voting for a racist english public schoolboy fraudster who is freeloading his way across my country. Name one difference between him and BJ de Peffel that isn't just the colour of their skins. They're both even shacked up with fake blondes.

    Meanwhile my current MSP is asking for both of my votes and has exactly one mention of the I word.
    "...cast your regional vote for Nicola Sturgeon."
    "Just think what we could achieve with the full powers of an independent country back at the heart of Europe!"

    I lost my SNP councillor at the last election and am at great risk of losing the MSP at this one thanks to his complicity. Only 7.3% margin over the ruth davidson for sectarian bigotry party.

    If J C Cherry wasn't my MP my vote would be lost completely.



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    1. Salmond admitted at the beginning he had apologised to the women concerned for what he did, it should have been left at that. It was a senior employee of the Crown Office who decided to take it further .

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    2. William - what are going on about. Do you know anything. I don't think you have a clue.

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  5. I would like to see the results. I had no huge!y strong preferences one way or another regarding the list candidates. I expect the MSP to be re-elected and if we get a list MSP that will be a bonus. However, democracy must be transparent. Not because I want to gripe but because if we are going to weight votes we should have the confidence to do so openly. If we don't then there is no point in voting and the CAs should just select candidates.

    No one would argue that the actual election should be conducted without stating what the votes cast were.

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    1. HandandShrimp - re your last sentence - please don't give Sturgeon any ideas or we will end up like Zimbabwe under Mugabe

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  6. Browsing around its seems the same arguments are being thrown out that are used every time something the SNP has done is questioned:

    Don't question the SNP in the middle of election compain, you are just helping the unionists

    Anyone questioning the SNP are just peddling conspiracy theories, just ignore them

    What are you doing questioning the SNP - you must be a unionist!

    Its anti SNP bloggers from southern England peddling the story - ignore it

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  7. I realize this will come across as a conspiracy theory but to what extent is is likely that the reason there has been no publication of votes and positions etc. is that the process of selection was determined by a suspect vote of the NEC (advised by the SNP legal experts to be potentially challengeable at great financial cost to the party).

    Presumably, if no figures are ever presented, and if there is no publication of which (if any) candidates declared themselves BAME or Disabled (the two criteria decided by the NEC vote) the chance of a losing candidate making a legal objection are practically zero.

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    1. For sure. If you want to make the agument that a Candidate has got his/her postion on the list due to a policy that you believe is not legal (ie because of the BAME/Disabled ranking policy) you have to prove that was the reason and that they got the top ranking was because of the policy and not because they just got the most votes. If you do not know how many votes each candidate got you cannot do this.

      Which makes a mockery of the argument that if someone is not happy with the result they can just challenge it. From what I can tell there is no internal policy that allows appeals, meaning that it would have to be done through the courts. With no voteing figures being released you would first have to get a court order to get the SNP to release the figures and then challenge the policy. You would imagine that this would not be viable for most people (unless they have 10 grand + sitting around) therefore in reality there is not a viable route for the results to be challenged.

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    2. Whit ye oan aboot.

      James regularly raises thousands just for this wee blog. It's easy if you have decent cause with supporters.

      I'd happily chip in if some £'s is needed to sort this out.

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    3. You say below that the public won't care either way, based on that they would struggle to get enough supporters to fund any action.

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    4. It's not the 'public' that fund things like that, it's people who are strongly politically active, like those who fund political causes. Wings raised 10k in England for his website as a joke the other week.

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    1. Should really check my spelling before pressing the post button...

      Well, my list looks exactly like it did last time, so I was right to ignore Wingsers etc who said there was a plot to get rid of Joan McAlpine and she wouldn't be on the SoS list. She's a SoS constituency and top of the list for May.

      I think the Disabled-BAME policy is stupid and the way the rankings were made should be produced. Certainly, any candidates that are unhappy can go ahead and challenge; that's the way to sort it out. I have no issues with that and the public won't care either way. It's not a nasty racist policy or something, just poorly thought out and counterproductive in terms of equality.

      As I've said before, I'd prefer the SNP did stupid but well intentioned policy that e.g. make anti-immigration mugs, deport black people en masse etc like brits do.

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    2. Well, my list looks exactly like it did last time, so I was right to ignore Wingsers etc who said there was a plot to get rid of Joan McAlpine and she wouldn't be on the SoS list. She's a SoS constituency and top of the list for May.

      Emma Harper is top of the SoS list, not Joan McAlpine.

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    3. Yes, but joan is in the top 3 which is what I meant. The top 3 are the same as 2016. So if the snp result is as good or better than last time, they'll all be elected; SNP getting 3 list seats last time. Joan may even win a constituency.

      And I voted for harper in part because wings hates her. If wings hates someone, probably means they're a decent enough person. He was anti harper and anti mcalpine (pro voting against the snp on the list) so I ranked them both as top choices.

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    4. Keaton - Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - caught lying again and like the Murrells says it's not what I meant. Pathological liar = Smearer Skier.

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    5. I had to rank like 20 candidates.

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    6. >It's not a nasty racist policy or something

      Is course not, it's a *nice* racist policy. Nice racism is the good kind. You discriminate in the basis of race but it's good, not bad.

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    7. Nasty racist policies are deporting black people en masse as noted. That or great British holiday businesses with 'dogs ok, but no Irish' in the handbok.

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    8. Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - just as well for you James doesn't have a policy of no liars on his blog. You would have to flit to WGD.

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  9. I'm definitely ignoring those telling me not to vote SNP on the list because they don't like e.g. Joan McAlpine.

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    1. Joan is in 2nd place. If the polling is reproduced in SS, she is online to win her constituency, which I would applaud. If it falls in SS (too many Unionists) then she might still get bin on the list but I'm not sure SNP will gain 3 List MSPs, so I hope she wins the constituency as that is far more secure

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    2. I know. Wings is against her and keeps suggesting i don't vote snp on the list to reduce her chance of being elected.

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    3. Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - narcissist - I doubt Campbell gives a toss about you and I'll bet you are lying about Wings being against her. Lying is standard for you.

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    4. I thought you said he talked about me on his English website?

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    5. Smearer Skier ( liar since 2014) - lying again.

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  10. There is an outrageous video of Sturgeons appearance on Wednesday where it shows a clip and pings every time Sturgeon says I don't know or I'm not sure or I can't recollect that etc etc and records 50 instances.

    Totally outrageous - there is definitely more than 50 instances.

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  11. I had already made up my mind I wasn't voting SNP on the list in H&I. It churns my stomach that awful Emma Roddick is top of the SNP H&I list and will probably get elected barring something surprising happening. BAME has a lot to answer for.

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    1. 'BAME has a lot to answer for'

      That sounds like something straight out of the BNP / British Pontins handbooks.

      It's an NEC policy.

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    2. Iain, I saw Wings refer to Emma Roddick as "awful" or something, I saw her top of the list so had a look to see what her record was. I couldn't see much, apart from being in favour of the mario cart streets in Inverness that I disagreed strongly with. Whats so bad about her? Genuine question.

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    3. She isn't disabled. Well the last time I looked she wasn't and the last time anybody that knows me looked she wasn't disabled. It is stretching the concept of disabled quite a bit. Please don't tell em she out-polled Kate Forbes and expect me to believe it.

      Scottish Skier GTF! I don't care if its NEC Policy, who made that Policy needs a brain transplant. I happen to like Maree Todd and I think she would be a great loss if she didn't win her Constituency Vote. The SNP and Parliament would be poorer in my view. So yes BAME has a lot to answer for in this instance.

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    4. Cheers. I'll keep looking to see what I am missing.

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    5. I still don't get how an NEC policy is the fault of black, Asian and ethnic minority groups. You are blaming eg my work colleagues for this?

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    6. Smearer Skief ( liar since 2014) - your work colleagues work where? Some uni you claim. Lying again Smearer?

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    7. I work with colleagues from universities and industry across the UK and overseas. That's the nature of research.

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    8. Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - so you are not employed by a uni. So you lied again.

      You seem to have the same skill set as your hero Sturgeon.

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    9. Hi IainM, I won't be voting SNP on the list either. How the SNP can relegate Kate to second on the list in H&I is madness, I will vote for Kate in the constituency, can't see me ever voting for Blackford again though.

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  12. Anyway, if your favoured candidate has been shunted down the list, it highlights the need to definitely vote SNP-SNP to make sure they get elected.

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    1. Well, that's a nice theory, although in some cases it might require an SNP vote of 80-100%.

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    2. Sure, but the general principle is true, certainly where I am in the South of Scotland.

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    3. To be honest James, while I think the policy is dumb and hope it's challenged, it's resulted in people right-wingsers hate (can't help but see a correlation between this and them being disabled or BAME) being top of the list, so has had a positive outcome in that respect.

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  13. Bath - a quintessentially English city* - is a real hotbed of SNP insiders.

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19139908.wings-scotland-blogger-fire-nonsense-claims-snp-manifesto/

    Michael Russell says 'leaked' SNP manifesto is 'nonsense'

    A CONTROVERSIAL pro-independence blog has come under fire for making "nonsense" claims about a leaked SNP manifesto.

    Wings Over Scotland said it had a copy of "a draft SNP manifesto introduction" written by Michael Russell, Scotland's Constitutional Secretary.


    ---
    *
    https://www.standard.co.uk/escapist/travel/9-of-the-most-quintessentially-english-places-it-is-your-patriotic-duty-to-visit-a3230596.html

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    1. It goes without saying I don't hold any brief for Stuart, but I presume he does have access to email in Bath, ie. his informant could be anywhere.

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  14. I must admit do find it funny when people who claim to be anti right wing but the constantly use right wing attack methods (ie contantly refer to the country someone lives in comes from for no reason).

    I generally find if you take out the word (ie English ) and the sentence still makes perfect sense then the word you have removed has been added for racist reasons.

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  15. Scottish Skier wrote: "James regularly raises thousands just for this wee blog. It's easy if you have decent cause with supporters.

    I'd happily chip in if some £'s is needed to sort this out."

    I'd also be happy to contribute.

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  16. How does the SNP List ranking vote work any way? Is it like Eurovision where you list in order and points are given? Is it a multi round STV where you eliminate candidates and transfer votes till someone gets more than half then do it again with those already selected removed?

    I suppose the question is how much meaning would you get from raw results? The best you could get might be the original order without preference being shown. If it's a point system you might get more of a clue how far someone has been promoted than a list.

    Regardless of which, a system where you know the first on the list might not be there on merit undermines those beneficiaries. I find it hard to believe, regardless of your own view, that Sturgeon or Forbes didn't top their regions. Campbell might have managed to come top on his own but I doubt it.

    The question answered by Speirs placing is whether they were putting all candidates who registered for preferences ahead in order of achievement or not. If she was 2nd ranked even though last in the complete list then she'd have been 2nd on the list after adjustment. Perhaps arguing whether they'd get away with that is why it took as long to publish the results.

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    1. Just a thought. If there was more than one BAME registered candidate on the list Campbell was placed first in then he may actually have come first. Just not of the entire field.

      So other questions are how many BAME candidates were there and how was it decided that you were BAME? Could someone decline categorisation as should be their right to do so?

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  17. I presume that the latest catch-phrase 'Black And Middle Eastern' doesn't include all those Hong Kong Scots, Pakistani Scots, Indian Scots, etc, etc.

    I lived in sub-Saharan Africa for years, and I never met anyone who was black. The only white people I have seen were albinos, and some people are so stupid they would classify them as 'black'. Apparently, I am supposed to be 'white', but in reality, if I am left out in the sun, I go the same colour as the average Punjabi.

    If people were honest, people wouldn't be called black and white, because they aren't, and people wouldn't be penned in an absolutist, totalitarian stupidity that is the root of a whole load of evil.

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