Thursday, May 21, 2020

Some unsolicited advice for the new pro-indy party: "get on or get out"

Last September, I said that I didn't think there was any need or space for a new pro-indy party to put up list candidates against the SNP and the Greens. But I added that if such a party were to be formed, it needed to meet two conditions -

"1) A party that exists for reasons other than perceived tactical advantage. If your Party Election Broadcast is an embarrassing three minute monologue about the d'Hondt formula, you're going wrong somewhere.

2) A party that is not organised on the Il Duce principle. Any party with aspirations to hold the balance of power in our national parliament must be controlled by its members, rather than being the personal possession of its founder - regardless of the magnetic hold that individual may have on his followers."


In fairness, I get the impression that the new ISP (which stands for Independence for Scotland Party, and not Internet Service Provider) will meet the second condition. It seems like a fairly collegiate outfit, and although I'm not entirely sure of the process by which Colette Walker was selected as leader, I would imagine that's merely an interim arrangement and that there'll be a democratic internal vote at some point. But the signs are not so good as far as the first condition is concerned. Ms Walker's article in The National contained the usual bogus claims about the Holyrood electoral system that are so familiar to us from a million RISE press releases in 2016. Even more troublingly, a strong sense of entitlement came through from the article, as if the SNP somehow owed smaller pro-indy parties a favour and should get out of the way by no longer actively seeking votes on the regional list ballot. We should be extremely thankful that the SNP didn't go down that road in 2011, because without the sixteen list seats they won in that election, there would have been no overall majority and quite possibly no independence referendum in 2014. Even the four list seats they currently hold are a crucial component of the pro-indy majority at Holyrood. If too many SNP voters were to drift off to fringe parties on the list next year, that could in the nightmare scenario lead to a unionist majority.

I was accused in 2016 of wildly underestimating the potential of RISE to win list seats. As it turned out, I hadn't underestimated them at all, and they didn't come within light-years of taking even a single seat. History is repeating itself now and I'm being accused of underestimating the ISP - and I fully expect to be proved right once again. But let's suppose for the sake of argument that I'm wrong and that the ISP do have some sort of chance of clearing the de facto threshold of 5% and thus winning list seats. If there's any possibility of that, it should start showing up in opinion polls over the coming months - and I must emphasise that I'm talking about credible opinion polls that give parity of esteem to all parties, rather than Mickey Mouse poll questions that ask "would you consider voting for this party?" If by the end of the year the ISP are polling at, say, 7% or 8% on the standard voting intention question, they'll be perfectly entitled to conclude they have a fighting chance of winning seats and could end up helping the cause of independence rather than harming it.

But the much more likely scenario is that they'll be polling somewhere between zero and 3%, and will be firmly on course to win no seats. Now, admittedly, even at that stage there'll be no absolute proof that the mission is doomed, and they might still nurse the hope that the official campaign period will turn things around - but that's pretty unlikely, given that they'll be excluded from the leaders' debates, along with all of the other disadvantages fringe parties face. With no pre-campaign breakthrough in the polls, the rational thing to do would be to abort the whole plan and not put up list candidates after all, because the balance of probability would be that any votes they take will be wasted and will thus harm rather than help the pro-indy side (ie. by making it harder for the SNP and Greens to win list seats). Or at least, that would be the rational call for anyone who regards independence as the absolute priority. If they push ahead in spite of knowing that they're likely to cause harm, we'll be entitled to conclude that their priorities actually lie elsewhere.

In a nutshell, my advice to the ISP would be what Jo Grimond famously said to the Liberal party in the 1950s: "get on or get out". In other words, there's no point in a fringe party existing just for the sake of it. If there's a realistic chance of making a positive difference, by all means put your heart and soul into it and make it work. But if there's no realistic chance, and if you discover from the polls that you've been caught in a Twitter bubble all along, then for heaven's sake step aside before you cause any real damage.

230 comments:

  1. Remember also the possibility of the new party being given lots of airtime by the Unionist media - crisis for SNP - indy infighting - using even the best of ISP's arguments (on non indy issue) against the SNP rather than any other party.

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    1. Which in return gives the SNP more publicity, that is something the Unionist press will try to avoid. It might weaken Labour, LD and Tories at the same time if that their non-SNP voters might go to instead.

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    2. Stay Alert Marcia and Lurker Control the Virus.

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  2. Is it legal to be a member of two political parties. For the price of membership of the SNP you could also have membership, eg, Leave GB party. The SNP would put up people for first passed the post vote MSPs and non for ths list vote. The Leave GB party would put up people for the list vote. This would mean voting 1 SNP, 2Leave GB.

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  3. RISE. Different times. The SNP was in the ascendancy holding Westminsters feet to the fire and gunning for indy with a newly strong 56 MPs. Things are very different now unfortunately.

    If the new party gets lots of publicity vowing independence and indy ref no matter what Westminster says, and the SNP are still on this wait and see and we'll maybe ask for a ref again at some point. ISP will have a lot of ordinary ( usually SNP 1 + 2 ) voters like me thinking about doing something different next time. It'll depend how forceful the SNP are regarding indy or not in their next campaign.

    Being at Westminster now for the SNP is a complete waste of time. And there needs to be some real action by the SNP regarding mandates for an indy ref in 2021. If not people like me will vote for a party that will.

    ISP is likely to get a lot of media attention. Anything to try and undermine the SNP. But the difference with RISE is that it's prioritising action on independence and kicking unionists out of Holyrood.. not espousing left wing happy clappy radical 'ideas'. ISP policies seem far easier to understand than anything RISE stood for. And for that, (I make no comment on individual personalities involved), coupled with any media attention, people in my view will be willing to look favourably on them with a 2nd vote should the SNP fail to ramp up any decisive action on getting us out of this union.

    I'm very happy with Nicola and the SNP *in general*, but my second vote relies on more than policies which seem to be going nowhere regarding independence. So I'll wait and see. RISE seems a whole lifetime ago in politics.

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    1. If the new party gets lots of publicity vowing independence and indy ref no matter what Westminster says

      Whatever the reasons for the failure of RISE, it's fair to surmise that lack of publicity was not among them.

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    2. "ISP policies seem far easier to understand than anything RISE stood for."

      Where have they published their policies?

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    3. Control the virus Keaton.

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  4. Of course they won't win seats. But one way that such a party could make an (arguably) constructive contribution is to act as a threat to the SNP: stop kicking independence into the long grass, or we'll transfer seats from you to Unionists. I can see why they're reluctant to present it that way, though.

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    1. But for that threat to be constructive rather than destructive, they'd have to be prepared to stand aside if the SNP do what they want.

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    2. If they hardly trouble the scorers at an election, they're unlikely to deliver many seats to the unionists.

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    3. But even one or two could make all the difference.

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    4. Stay Alert Kelly.

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  5. Let's wait and see what's in the snp manifesto for next year..if it's more of the same and no plan B I think quite a few will take up the ISP for there second vote..at the moment for most its snp 1&2.its to early to dismiss other avenues.all will hang on what's on offer.but be ready either way. THE YES MOVEMENT.AUOB.WINGS.WGD.SGP.and many more with .a few celebs at rallies can be a powerful voice to influence the independence course.all we need is that one non politician willing to step forward to bring them all together.A lesley riddock type person(sorry lesley)but someone well respected.well known.doesnt suffer fools and able to stand up and fight our corner .

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  6. Biggest obstacle to Independence is that we have an independence 'supporting' Govt that will neither campaign directly on Indy or hold a referendum to allow the Yes movement to campaign directly on Indy. Without an official campaign on Indy the Yes movement cannot address the issues widely and systematically with the general public, face to face, without risking alienating that usually non political audience. Only an official campaign opens up the public space for a Yes social campaign and the usually non receptive non political folk become receptive because a decision is imminent. This is what happened in 2014 and it will happen that way again - IF that social campaigning is ever allowed to get started. SNP are there to call a Referendum, Yes are there to win it!
    braco

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    1. Why not just type the name braco into the name box when posting instead of chosing anonymonus and then signing off each post at the end with the name braco?

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    2. Just a matter of choice Thepnr. I am anon as my name really isn't braco. Did your mother really call you Thepnr? ;)

      braco

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    3. Why do so many people use nomdeplumes, It should be made ileagal.

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    4. I take it you are nice and safe William and have never needed a space to speak your mind free of possible draconian repercussions for you and those arond you? Why on earth make voting anon, it should be made ileagal.
      braco

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    5. Haha fair enough braco, using a name just makes it easier to have btl discussions. There can be half a dozen different people posting as Anonymous and another half a dozen posting as Unknown.

      Don't see the point myself but each to their own braco.

      Thepnr

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    6. I call him Mazda. Not for she a light bulb but for he a bit.

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    7. Stay Alert Purves.

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    8. Are all the Anonymous people also called braco. Even when they seem to disagree with one another? Oddballs.

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  7. RISE failed because Scotland is not as left wing as they presumed, they appealed only to the radical left wing vote. Plus someone like Tommy Sheridan is a real marmite figure, loved by the left but mistrusted by the majority.

    ISP was always a problematic acronym, said so when they launched, it will get lost in an internet search.

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  8. Good article James, the voice of reason.

    Can you do a quick guide to what the list system works, maybe a bit about the history of it, ( is it used in any nation in the UK?) and where else in the world it is used and how that influences the make up of any political arena. When you have time that is!

    jfngw mentions 'RISE' being too left wing, they were something wing but questionable about their real motives imo.

    Soon as you use the word 'RADICAL' you have a problem, people do not like 'radicalism', it suggests revolution, or just plain disruption for the sake of it, especially in the 21st century.

    People ( well most) want stability,(!) and good intelligent, fair minded government who work hard for all of the people, ultimately.

    It's said that the SNP are 'centre left', but surely that would make Labour centre right, the party of privatisation, PFI scams, and siding with and even voting with the right wing, ie Tories on many many issues and policies that affect the poorest and most vulnerable so negatively.

    'Radical' became a word used for wanting change to a system that favours the rich, but it could be used equally in relation to the right wing, what they do to attack their own people ( as well as others around the globe) is 'radical'.

    The Tories seem to have dropped the word 'reform' ( their version of 'radical') for the now though.

    Scotland is in the main 'left wing', but 'radical' can be left on the pretendy lefty Labour shelves of days gone by.

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  9. James,All I need to say is Agreed.

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  10. Are they capable of being a government, if not then stop wasting people's time
    Folk forget the SNP are the government and if they weren't doing it well they wouldn't be there
    The SNP aren't *just to get us Independence and if they dont dae that they're rubbish*
    A party must have the confidence of the people, Labour don't the Tories don't that's why they aren't the government, it's not just Independence, but to get Independence the people have to see that the party doing that are up to the job when we do get Independence

    I'm so sick of bloody socialists, they're every bit as bad as the Tories full of their own ideologies and wee red books of *how to*

    Social democracy is the only way, the people must be engaged with who governs their country and the way it's governed, it's high time folk ditched their stupid one or the other systems

    The SNP are such a party, no ideology, no playbook, you look at what works best around the world ask the people what they think and try it, good is good

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    1. "The SNP are such a party, no ideology, no playbook ...". No independence.

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    2. No slogans:

      Stay Alert
      Control the Virus
      Save Lives

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  11. If the sole goal of a new indy list party is to secure a second indyref, presumably it will commit in its manifesto to completely disbanding, with MSPs standing down from elected positions (so they can fully commit to campaigning on the ground), the moment that aim achieved?

    If not, it will raise questions about whether the party is really committed to delivering an independence or is just seeking power in a devolved administration.

    Right?

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    1. My ideal for any single issue list party would be for the first two candidates on each of it's regional lists to be VERY experienced, but retired, indy politicians who can form the core party politcal negotiating team to deliver the IndyRef or an alternative roadmap in a collaboration with an SNP administration. (Using an annual budget supply and demand agreement that would shadow the SNP manifesto for devolved government).  
      That would leave all the remaining list seats to then be filled by 'normal' community Yessers. These could be held on a rotational annual basis and used to seed practical experience of our parliament and government as widely throughout as many communities as possible in a short period of time. Cosider it a paid community internship to  Scotland's system of governance. Quite the opposite of an 'old boy's club' eh. 
      I would also make it contractually watertight for each successful List Party MSP to donate £30k of their annual parliamentary sallary to a ringfenced IndyRef2 fighting fund. So, lets be ambitious and say we win 30 of the 58 available seats, and IndyRef2 comes late in the next parliament (as SNP will be inclined to demand), then that would net approximately £5million from UK government coffers to fight IndyRef2 with! 
      I honestly think that those kind of manifesto commitments would be VERY tempting to an awful lot of Yessers. It would not be universally supported of course, but all that does is underline how important It would be for this list party leadership to encourage, wholeheartedly, for EVERY person who votes for them on the list to also vote for SNP in their constituency ballot. A good electoral slogan could be 'Both votes Indy!'  Vote1 Indy government, Vote2 IndyRef2!
      As a thought experiment Skier and Thepnr (and others of course), what would your reaction be to such an electoral offer at the next Holyrood election. Would be great to hear opinions from folk on what they would like to see, or more importantly, what think might work to advance Indy - rather than just rubbishing an idea that, if handled wrongly, could damage the SNP but which is obviously now out the bag and going to be tricky to get back in without a lot more political disillusionment and general losses to the movement overall...   :( 

      braco

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    2. Sure, but don't they need to commit to standing down once the indyref is achieved?

      I'm playing the devil's advocate, but Wings is for example arguing that a party needs to commit to totally disbanding once they achieve their main goal or we must assume they're just in it for power.

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    3. Thought they were there to reduce the numbers of unionist MSPs in Holyrood as well though. Disbanding won't do that.

      I expect after indy most Scottish parties will be splitting and rearranging themselves along different lines to the current set up.

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    4. If they are there to displace unionists on a permanent basis, they might be tempted by the trappings of power. How will we know if we vote them in that they'll deliver independence? What if they get comfortable with devolved power?

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    5. Scottish Skier. You mean like the SNP.

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    6. The poll found that 15% of SNP voters, not "the SNP", would vote No if it meant the party would be out of government. I'm not sure what you consider the cutoff to be for "a large proportion", but that figure strikes me as surprisingly low.

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    7. Lol. The post I replied to has already been deleted.

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  12. I am NOT Wings, and frankly I think he rubbished his own poll with such a daft proposition.
    Obviously, unless EVERY MSP stands down during the IndyRef2 campaign - hint - they won't (IndyRef2 is NOT an election), then a list only Indy party will fight Indyref2 using the full status and parliamentary priveledge of ALL it's elected officials in support of a Yes vote. Just as the SLabour, STory and SLibs used, and will use again, any of their surviving elected MSP's and MP's to fight for No .

    However Skier, I am puting forward specific propositions. Propositions that I am interested in hearing your, and others. opinions of.   

    Cheers
    braco :) 

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    1. I quite liked the yearly rotation suggestion, but it's not really practical. I'm not sure it's allowed for a start, and even if it was, can your average Scot give up their normal job for a year? What happens if they can't find work again when the year is up?

      Also, what if they are the sole earner in the household? Someone on 64k as the only wage earner takes home less pay than 2 folk on the average salary. Can we ask them to give up half of that for a year with a risk of no job at the end?

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    2. Skier I do like that Jason Leitch. When he talks you listen like you would to an army SAS Sgt Major. Stay in or you will get her heid kicked in. He does the trick.

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    3. When a list MSP resigns they are replaced automatically by the next candidate on the parties regional list.

      As I said before, I think it would be an incredibly popular 'internship' to Scottish governance. Just as standing for Parliament is not possible for everyone, this will obviously not be possible for everyone but I think it's more likely a person can organise a professional sabbatical year than commit to a full 5 year term.

      I think it's very attractive individually and very atttractive structurally in spreading MSP experience and practical experience of parliamentary politics over to many communities that Parliament may feel far from connected to.

      braco

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    4. Wings might be an arsehole but at least he can spell, kinda important when you request others opinions of your, ahem, propositions

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    5. Yes, spelling of words always trumps the ideas from those words. How very educated of you.

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    6. I've tested highly poisitively negative that slogans Trump spelling of words and Ideas.

      Stay Alert
      Control the Virus
      Save Lives

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  13. What is the SNP plan to achieve independence? That is supposed to be their primary purpose. How many Election wins and discussions about election wins are needed to get independence. For the SNP it now seems to be never ending. I thought a large majority win in Dec 19 was supposed to do the trick. Independence supporters are being strung along.

    The only good thing about the SNP winning an election is that it stops heartless Tories and their Britnat pals being in charge of the devolved parliament. As far as Independence the SNP are a joke.

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    1. The Nat sis will obtain independence when they have credible believable policies that will give the Scottish people economic security. Mibbies aye mibbies naw and dinnae worry things will work out is no way to convince Scots.

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    2. You've noticed the covid crisis right?

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    3. Personally, I'd rather wait until I can leave the hoose safely before we start a doorstep campaign for indy again.

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    4. Maybe the people of England might consider Independence when they're econonmically stable or when somebody *guarantees* their future

      Don't you just love the way the British Nationalists throw around the word *guarantee*

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    5. Another wings reader, have you paid up yet, if you haven't you get told to F**k off

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  14. UK government saying 17% of Londoners have had covid, while it's 5% in the rest of England.

    This confirms what I said previously. London was ground zero and infected the rest of the UK because England refused to lock it down, even as it became the Wuhan / Lombardy of the UK.

    That gave us the campervan and holiday castle flood over the border at Gretna and the thousands of deaths...

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    1. There is no evidence of camper vans going in either direction over the fictitious border. It is now accepted that London got it badly because it is the main international entry hub into the UK. People coming in and onward travel.

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    2. London got it badly because it is governed by a bunch of useless Britnat Brexiteer pricks.

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    3. 50 of the people traced at the NIKE conference were traced to England

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    4. GWC you are a Britnat turd who does not know his arse from his elbow.

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    5. No-one drives from London to Gretna, why the fuck would they. France in three hours.

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    6. Archie Norman did. Lord Haworth did. Patrick Mercer did. France's border was shut to them. Scotland's wasn't.

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    7. Stop making up names Elma and get back to staying alert, controlling the virus and saving lives.

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  15. Hands up all those who know Colette Walker or have heard much of the ISP, yep me neither, and I do pride myself in trying to keep up with politics in Scotland. Recent recognition polls of the general publics knowledge of the Rev Somebody and Wings over Scotland returned much the same result

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    1. The rev somebody is not to be taken seriously as an impartial political commentator, he's an internet cause agitator, that's how he makes his living

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    2. She was attacked by the Twittler Youth and the rest of MadmentalNicky's out for indy mob for daring to stand for election against their beloved bluehaired land whales. Anybody the least bit politically aware saw what happened. Saw the way the leadership arranged for their chosen ones to take control of the party and saw the reasons why she is setting herself in opposition to the do nothing woke stazi.

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    3. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 9:49 AM

      The SNP has been infiltrated by all manner of people for whom independence is not something they are interested in. Time for a clearout before it is too late. Time for people to step up to the plate and that includes independence bloggers.
      Tell the truth tell what you know to be the truth.

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  16. The Britnat press get subsidised by the BBC/UK as they slagg off independence/ SNP/Scotgov. Makes sense from a Bitter Together point of view.

    The Britnat press are now also subsidised by the Scotgov.

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    1. It is just not acceptable for my party to be subsidising the MSM. Oh wait it may be part of the master plan for independence but I just don't understand it.

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    2. That's because you're thick as shit and why I banned you from Wings.

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    3. Stay Alert RevStu or you'll be banned from Wings

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    4. Revstu please let me back on Wings. Ha Ha Ha

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  17. Replies
    1. No it's not me.

      braco

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    2. Is that anonymous?

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    3. No it's not me.

      braco

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    4. Stay Alert Braco

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    5. Stay alert GWC.

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    6. Is that you GWC taking the piss. You tosser GWC.

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    7. No. I'm calling myself Anonymous today to make myself seem interesting and enigmatic.

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    8. Braco

      If you want to seem interesting and enigmatic call yourself Thepnr.

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    9. Maybe I'll call myself Grimpo

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    10. I think I'll call for help.

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    11. Is that you unknown impersonating me? Wasting your time. HaHaHa

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  18. Instead of discussing the merits of additional independence parties we should be asking: - why is the SNP not delivering on independence?

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    1. I can tell if my bitch is on the phone and she tells me she ain't. I lift the ixtention and if I hear talk, she's on. I get her later. Nat si cow. Prob fingering Jim Sillers

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    2. Tell yer bitch to control the virus GWC.

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    3. They're busy plus half the country doesn't want it yet and maybe never will
      It's easy to get a referendum, Nicola Sturgeon could've done it but Scotland wasn't ready for her to definitely win it

      So do just want a referendum for the sake of it or do you want to win it

      Stop reading the shite that Wings Stuart Campbell or that clown Craig Murray tries to shove down your throat, they're not on your side they're not on the side of Independence, they're on thier own side of making a living out of winding up arseholes who'll fall for the shite they write

      The SNP aren't there to *deliver on Independence* that's the job of the public to want it and demostrate they want it so the SNP can make the moves to do it

      Get Campbell and his cronie out of your head, nobody in the actual Independence movement has any time for these people anymore, they've been funoot!

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    4. Anonymous - what a pile of nonsense you have just posted. Who are you McCann of is it Murrell?

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  19. If I was a Nat si I would go for Walker rather than Sturgeon but I'm not. Some say I am a Britnat turd but I'm not. I just a Bitter Together old man who sleeps in the Jack. GSTQ. Rule Brittania. No surrender.......zzzzzzzzz

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  20. French families to sue Government over deaths in care homes. The lawyers queuing up to get taxpayers money. Thought the jocks would be first. Slow of the mark.

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  21. Get the Popcorn.

    A group of senior scientists has warned that 1 June is too soon for schools to reopen safely and that more time is needed to set up an effective track and trace system to contain future outbreaks.

    The independent Sage committee, chaired by the former government chief scientist Sir David King, say that new modelling of the coronavirus shows the risk to children will be halved if they return to school two weeks later than ministers propose. Delaying until September reduced the risk still further.

    The extra two weeks would allow more time for infections to fall in the community and for crucial track and trace capacity to be built up so that new cases are found and isolated fast.

    “It is clear from the evidence we have collected that 1 June is simply too early to go back. By going ahead with this dangerous decision, the government is further risking the health of our communities and the likelihood of a second spike,” Professor King said.

    In a draft consultation published on Friday, the experts say local authorities must demonstrate low levels of infection and an ability to contain new infections before schools are reopened, with public consultation a “vital” part of the decision-making process.

    The report urges authorities to consider summer camps and outdoor schools for educating children with community playing fields and sports clubs requisitioned for teaching purposes.

    King said the decision of when to re-open schools was a “careful balance” but added it was vital for young people to get back to the classroom as soon as it was safe to do so. “The current climate is likely to disproportionately affect the most disadvantaged in society, therefore it is vital that the government also considers innovative ways to help those who need it most.”

    Professor King established the Independent Sage committee amid concerns over the lack of transparency around scientific advice reaching ministers from the government’s Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage), co-chaired by the chief scientific adviser, Patrick Vallance and England’s chief medical officer, Professor Chris Whitty.

    Paul Whiteman, general secretary of the school leaders’ union NAHT, said: “Support for a fixed date for school return is vanishing quickly. What is needed now is local flexibility to determine when it is right for schools to open up to more pupils, informed by evidence of what is happening in their local area.”

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    1. Paul Shiteman from the Nat si And Hitler Team. Lazy jock shirking off work. On fool pay.

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    2. pickforbritain.org.uk

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  22. A straw poll of Unison members working in schools in England found that the vast majority remain concerned over the safety of their workplaces opening to more pupils on 1 June.

    Unison said its members had been “shut out” of the debate over reopening, and that the government has not modelled the impact on support staff such as teaching assistants who tend to be older, and are more likely to come from black and minority ethnic communities or disadvantaged backgrounds.

    More than 90% said the government has failed to put safety first when planning to reopen schools to nursery, reception, year one and year six pupils in nine days’ time, while 77% said their school would not have the resources to cope.

    More than 45,000 Unison members responded to the union’s questions, including key staff such as childcare workers and cleaners. The majority said they had been working in schools throughout the lockdown, as many remained open to support vulnerable pupils and the children of key workers.

    Jon Richards, Unison’s head of education, said:

    There’s little confidence in ministers’ plans, that’s clear to see. Staff, parents and schools aren’t ready to go back without reassurances that safety is the number one priority.

    Unions want to work with ministers to make schools as safe as possible, so that parents, their children and staff will want to return. But the rush to get some schools open to meet an arbitrary date isn’t at all helpful.

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    1. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 9:42 AM

      Britnats don't care about people only money.

      Delete
  23. I don't like nom de plumes but I do like plums.

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  24. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-52664837

    Dr Margaret Harris from the World Health Organisation describes the Scottish Government's four-phase route map as "very sensible".

    "This is not like getting let out of school, it has to be a gradual easing," she tells BBC Radio Scotland.

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    1. Covidia enjoyed its up close and personal experiences in the park last weekend.

      pickforbritain.org.uk

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    2. I wonder where people on Portobello beach might have got the confused message that it was ok to do that?

      If only another country wasn't appropriating the name UK and broadcasting it's different guidelines to Scots.

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    3. But knickerless is in charge the main wummin and everybody listens to her. If a cure is found in Scotland it will have been knickerless.

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    4. Pickforbritain.org.uk

      Covidia needs to do its duty with all the other lazy Brexiteers.

      Delete
  25. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 1:53 PM

    Thousands of deaths in the UK are directly down to the bungling Britnat Brexiteer clowns in London being more concerned about getting Big Ben to bong when they should have been carrying out the contingency actions necessary to combat the virus. It is only now grey are putting controls on the virus coming in to the UK.

    At future elections story voters should stay strong home and save lives and save livelihoods.

    Britnats what a bunch of tossers.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Get ready for the pee police.

    Sturgeon urged Scots to “exercise good judgement” about where they travelled and who they met, but insisted that meeting people - including parents - outwith their immediate household could only happen outdoors.

    She said people should avoid popping into their parents’ home to use the toilet after a long drive. “You risk leaving the virus on surfaces inside the house, and that’s a risk we don’t want you to take,” she said.

    Sturgeon cautioned that the looser lockdown rules would not be in force this bank holiday weekend, and urged people not to flood to beaches, parks and beauty spots. “You have all been magnificent so far but please stick with it for the next few days, so we can begin the journey back to normality,” she said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She didn't though. She said don't take a long drive, so that if you need a piss when you get to your parents you won't leave Covid all over their bathroom and infect them.

      Pretty simple I'd have thought. Especially if you don't want to endanger your folks

      Delete
  27. Well I absolutely positively can attest negatively to this

    Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s first minister, has urged that Johnson gives President Trump “a bit of encouragement” to think about the importance of following scientific advice on the coronavirus pandemic if he does visit.

    Asked by the Guardian about reports from Friday’s Downing Street media briefing the prime minister could visit Trump, Sturgeon said it was not her role to tell Johnson what he should ask the president, but said Trump’s leadership on the pandemic had been worrying:

    “I think all of us, and I say this not just as a leader of a government, I say this as a citizen, would like to see the President of the United States in his demeanour and public utterances around the dealing with this virus be just a little bit more responsible in the messages he is giving.

    “We laugh sometimes about previous comments about disinfectant and some of the comments he has made recently about testing but it is so important that leaders – we all make mistakes, we all get things wrong, all of us – that we give clear advice and messages to people and we try to base that on the best knowledge, science and information we’ve got.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 2:49 PM

      Asking a buffoon to ask an even bigger buffoon to try to stop acting like a buffoon is not going to work.

      Delete
    2. The baffon Trump until the virus hit was increasing employment massively in the USA. Obomer and Clinton sold tens of thousands of jobs with their trade deals something the Democrats now acknowledge is why they lost. You sound like someones whose circumcision went wrong.

      Delete
    3. pickforbritain.org.uk

      Covidia needs to do its bit. Glorious Brexitannia demands it.

      Delete
    4. Acting on the best scientific advice is correct. But why is the UK Govt making a big thing about tracking and tracing the virus but are still allowing people to enter the UK including Scotland without quarentining.
      Priti Patel is the most arrogant and useless Home Secretary, but she's the darling of the Tory press. Money before morals as ever with the Tories.

      Delete
    5. I am sorry for all the offensive comments I have posted on young James site. I truly am a silly old Orangeman who is losing his marbles now. My Crown Jewels were lost to me some time ago.

      Delete
  28. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 7:17 PM

    It is great that Nicola Sturgeon has put together a proper phased plan for easing out of lockdown. It contrasts very favourably with the shambolic approach of the Bonking Britnat Brexiteer Buffoon called Boris.

    However, if Sturgeon can knock together a comprehensive plan for easing out of lockdown in a matter of weeks how come there is no plan for Scottish independence after being in charge for well over 5 years. It is also worth always remembering that we HAVE been taken out of the EU against our will. Failure.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The jocks could not afford to keep the EU drinks cabinet topped up. Austerity will be imposed by knickerless once this pandemic is over. The jocks will be paying the loans for decades to lenders. They will beg to stay in the Union

      Delete
    2. You might be surprised to learn that the plan that was prepared for Scotlands Independence was overuled, but not by Nicola Sturgeon, it was other pen pushers within the party

      2021 Nicola Sturgeons plan which was and is two fold is to return and the pen pushers bland plan is to be ditched, let's just say for something a tad bolder

      Delete
    3. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 22, 2020 at 10:26 PM

      Anonymous - your post is gibberish. Are you GWC?

      Delete
  29. GWC How come you believe Scotland couldn't do anything for itself yet the Isle of Man has more power than Scotland, the Faroe islands have more power than Scotland, the islands of Guernsey and Jersey have more power than Scotland, in fact these places can even mint their own coinage

    How does it feel to you that England thinks more of these places than it does about Scotland, and doesn't it occur in your tiny wee mind that Scotland having its own fiscal power terrifies the English because we'd remove their ability to strip our assets whenever they want

    Of course you already know these things but you're such a bigoted wee relgious hating nut case you think it's all about you who the English believe are Verminous Scots, just because you wear a stupid wee Orange uniform and bang a drum and flute doesn't make them respect you more, it makes them laugh even louder at your stupidity at being so thick even they can con you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's a laugh, 'Mint your own Coinage', You Nat sis could not even dream up a currency before the 2014 referendum. And where the f are you going to get around 2 billion a year to hand to the EU bum boys. Are you going to bleed us Scots. Your Orange routine is getting boring, yawn. Try thinking for yourself and not consulting Nat si HQ For your drivel.

      Delete
  30. He has to step down surely?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52779356

    Coronavirus: Dominic Cummings visited parents' home while he had symptoms

    Dominic Cummings travelled hundreds of miles from London to County Durham during the lockdown when he had coronavirus symptoms.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You would want his head Skier as he was instrumental in brexit preventing you EU crawlers from getting down on your knees. Hey Skier Spotlight has just started on the telly. Talking about on yer knees how ironic!

      Delete
    2. My my GWC you must start behaving better. Talking to my split personality now - am I an Orangeman or a Freemason. I'm losing my marbles - help ma boab.

      Delete
    3. Yes he should stand down.
      More importantly though, who else knew?
      Did Boris know?
      Who else in cabinet knew?
      Who else in No10 knew?
      His wife was with him. She's editor at the Spectator.
      Who at the Spectator knew?
      Given that Laura K @ the BBC is now briefing on his behalf, when did she first find out?

      Delete
  31. Thepnr back to posting his mince on WGD. We must only have the gold standard sect 30 Plan A for independence he says but then contradicts himself by saying Nicola has a secret Plan B which must be won because it's the last chance saloon from here to infinity.

    Delusional mince.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. hahaha you don't like it up you :o) Why not come over to WGD and impersonate me.

      Delete
    2. The precedent was set in 2014, in that the way to Independence was to have a Yes/No referendum where a majority of one for either side would settle the result. The precedent was also set that in order for that referendum to be lawful it required a Section 30 order to be agreed with Westminster the gave the Scottish government the temporary power to make legislation “about the Union” that was a power reserved to Westminster.

      Alex Salmond totally blanked Westminster when it kept bringing up the matter of a Section 30 order, he argued that a Section 30 order wasn’t necessary for Scotland to hold a referendum on Independence.

      This was an argument that raged for quite a while in legal circles in Scotland on both sides. Eventually, though Alex Salmond decided just to accept the Westminster offer of a section 30 order. I don’t know why he chose to do that after fighting it for so long but that’s in the past and we need to look to the future.

      Back then, after the signing of the Edinburgh Agreement and with the Section 30 order in place the legality of the right of Scotland to hold this referendum and a guarantee of the result being accepted and recognised by Westminster was held up to be the “gold standard” for holding an Independence referendum.

      It is this precedent that has resulted in Nicola Sturgeon having no other choice at this stage, than to fully go down the same route of seeking agreement with Westminster. Of course, it was refused and I’m absolutely certain it was expected by the Scottish government that it would be refused.

      So, of course, they would have to have a plan B, what is plan B? Well I don’t know, Angus doesn’t know but neither do the Tory party know.

      The thing about any plan B is it will have to lead to Independence at the time of enacting it, there is no third chance and no chance of a plan C, so plan B must be absolutely bulletproof is how I see it. It had better be the best of the best plans ever made because failure of plan B is not an option.

      There’s one other very important consideration, at least to me, and that is plan B has to have the support of the majority of the voting public, whichever type of plebiscite is settled on. This much is clear if you are to expect International support and also in order to prevent social unrest here in Scotland. A minority of the voting public will not be able to enforce their will against the majority under any circumstances without disturbances and wide unrest.

      Coming up with a plan B isn’t easy, making sure it’s a winning plan isn’t easy either but I guess we won’t have that long to wait to find out what plan B is, let’s see.

      Delete
    3. Thepnr "They would have to have a Plan B". Why - is it some law of physics that I missed - no it is just your religious zeal - I believe. Just like the Monkees song - I'm a believer.


      Delusional mince. You are just like the religious people who keep saying the saviour is returning next year - year after year after year after year.

      Delete
    4. Keep the faith LOL

      Delete
    5. Thepnr - you stick with your faith the rest of us want Scottish independence.

      Delete
    6. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM

      Thepnr thinks Sturgeon is like Baldrick. " I have a cunning plan". Well if she does have a cunning plan and true believers like Thepnr believe that to be the case then let's hope it is better than Baldric's plans normally are.

      Delete
    7. The cunning plan is working and you must all be feeling sick. You lot have said support for the SNP will fall, all those resigning from the party because of GRA reform would stuff them. Well support has gone UP! Did you notice?

      You said a new Independence party was needed to gain list MSP's as the SNP would lose in 2021, guess what on current polling they will have an outright majority. The funiest part iof that is for a new Independence list only party to have any chance whatsoever to gain MSP's it needs the votes of SNP supporters. Supporters that you dickheads contiually attack, they very people you want support from are the ones that your opinions piss off the most. Genius!

      You lot said Indepenence was doomed now because support was going to fall, women were being alienated from supporting Independence because their rights were being taken away by the BAADDD SNP.

      Surprise Surprise! Support for Independce is on the rise and among women it is rising the fastest.

      I think you lot are full of shit, it continually spills out into garbled messages about getting rid of Sturgeon, supporting a Wings party and other such crap. Ever considered that you and your Rev might even be wrong.

      Hahaha that's not a real question by the way as I already know the answer, just tugging your tail. Keep the faith!

      Delete
    8. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 4:33 PM

      Thepnr - please do not address me as you lot. I have never said any of the stuff you posted above. I think like GWC you are losing your marbles.

      Delete
    9. You lot think that by insulting SNP supporters you will win their votes for yoiur fantasy Independene list party.
      Totally deluded and easily wound up as well which is a bonus LOL

      Delete
    10. ScottytheScotinScotland - absolutely no point in trying to have a sensible discussion with Thepnr - he is Ex British Labour. Probably kept defending Labour shitting all over Scotland for decades before he says he saw the light and was converted to Scottish independence. He was once faithful to the British state but he has transferred his faith to Nicola Sturgeon. Lumps anyone who criticises the SNP as "you lot" as if everyone holds the same point of view.

      Delete
  32. Ursula von der leyens salary = £29,340. No not annually ya Jock Nat si mugs it's monthly.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Estimated cost of Coronavirus so far is 282 billion. Skier break that down to Scotlands share if independent. You are exceptional with figures.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I did not say it. It was the moon and a cup.

      Delete
    2. Assuming a per capita share, it's the same cost to Scots taxpayers as remaining in the union.

      Delete
  34. We have a dishwasher - yes cry your eyes out - and when I'm loading it up ,(get it?) I tell me plates and cups and spoon that we're hiding from the commies or the Nazis or the terrists. Some times I give them names. Come on, Spooner, The natbsis will gasvyoubif they get you. Come on!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hope Covidia made it safely back to the sobbing cupboard after this confused rant.

      Delete
  35. Those fake GWCs do my bidding. They are lovely boys with nice ring pieces.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Covidia would never let a trifling matter like a global pandemic get in the way of its sickening obsessions.

      Delete
  36. I'm always guided by your analyses, James, but I find this debate frustrating. If it becomes clear that the SNP have no serious intention of pursuing independence (and we're almost there now) I am one of a biggish group that will want to try some other path. Do you think the SNP will suddenly reveal some cunning plan for indy, but if not then doing nothing is still the best option? If you were (hypothetically) to concede that there is a problem and a new indy party is not the solution, then what is?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The simple answer is the same one that I've given many times before: this is a battle that can only be won within the SNP. The more people like Colette Walker that desert the SNP for a fringe party, the less likely that internal battle ever is to be won.

      Delete
    2. Is there not a political principle called the Overton window, surely the battle is more likely to be won within the SNP if external pressure is applied. Fiscal relaxation and Brexit being recent examples.

      Delete
    3. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 11:22 AM

      James Kelly. I agree it is a battle that needs to be won within the SNP but I also agree with unknown that it is a battle that needs external pressure applied. It needs people like yourself and WGD to step up to the plate and stop sitting on the fence.

      Delete
    4. On what planet am I "sitting on the fence"?

      Delete
  37. The SNP only have a chance of list seats in South Scotland, Lothian and Highlands and Islands (onm anything like current polling). People might as well take a punt in the other regions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, the bit in brackets is the problem. The reality is that the SNP have a chance of list seats in all eight regions. It depends on the constituency results, and no-one knows what they'll be until the votes are counted.

      Delete
  38. Correct, James. History tells us that splits from parties usually ends in failure.
    Change will come from within the SNP.
    All this unrest will be headed off.
    My belief is the manifesto for the SP elections next year will neuter any fringe indy party.
    To achieve this will require a firm date for an independence referendum.
    Also no S30 'permission' required.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Of course winning the election with an overall majority for independence is a prerequisite. Fortune favours the brave.
    Without that nothing changes.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's enough from you ramstam. Get on or get out!

      Delete
  40. Cummings put thousands of lives at risk.

    If Boris knew about the trip, both should resign.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Cummings may well have infected Scotland, having brought covid to with 90 miles of the border.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Driving up north and breathing through the car ventilators could cause a chanty of chaos. The English virus is far more virulent. The man should be locked up and self flaggulate. Punishment for leading the campaign to leave the EU.

      Delete
    2. Covidia there, showing its confusion and racism.
      It shouldn't hit the bottle so early in the day.

      Delete
  42. Downing st have issued a formal statement - Cummings followed the rules - aye right just like Prince Charles followed the rules.

    Blackford is quite right to call for Cummings to resign or be sacked. Pity he didn't have the courage to criticise Charlie when he actually came to Scotland when breaking the rules.
    Both of them had the virus. Cummings wife actually had the brass neck to write about their experience of having the virus in the Spectator - conveniently forgetting to mention their trip to Durham from London.

    We are all in it together - the rules apply to all - aye right.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why is a thick nat si like you concerned about Cummings. Scotland is in charge of it's own health policy. The man lead the battle to get us out of the EU. Ultimately we will save billions of our tax payers money and going by the projected austerity we will need this money. Take yer knee pads of nat si EU grovellers.

      Delete
    2. I am truly sorry for the above offensive comment. I am an old Unionist who is losing his marbles. Can't even remember if I am still in the lodge - Freemasons or Orange lodge canny remember a thing. Rule Britannia. Bloody Nat sis.

      Delete
    3. Poor Covidia. So confused. So angry. So very, very funny.

      Delete
    4. If I was a NAT si fruit I'd be a loganberry

      Delete
  43. Skier,there was a good article in the Independent on 1st May 2020 @Leocendro. Why Belgium has the highest death rate in the world.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Covid deaths:
      36,393 UK
      9,237 Belgium

      Delete
    2. You miss the point, just read the article as it is about the Belgium Health Service. However the population of Belgium is only twice as much as Scotland.

      Delete
    3. I'm sure your figures on population size will bring comfort to the families of victims.

      Delete
    4. You were invited to read the article to further your education on the excellent Belgium health service.

      Delete
  44. See you GWC I love the EU they gave me two half puns of butter fae their mountain during the eighties it kept me gon fur two months. I wis using cheap lard when that cow Thatcher wis in power. You hiv tae love the EU.

    ReplyDelete
  45. British Nationalists are such cowards they're unable to answer a sengle question so resort to insulting bile all based on their imagined right to rule, and their wee followers in Scotland behave in the same way the British have always trained them to look up to their Bwanas Massas Guvners Uncle Toms, but here in Scotland we know them as House Jocks, pitiful sniveling sideways looking dependents on their British masters largesse that has never been forthcoming, who knows maybe one day they'll be accepted as human beings, Aye like that'll ever happen

    ReplyDelete
  46. So the rules in England are that if you have covid and are infectious, you don't need to self-isolate at home, but can travel to wherever you want?

    That's what No. 10 is saying.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Skier if Cummings could infect scots from ninety miles away then what is the point in the two metre distancing?

      Delete
    2. There are lots of scots living in northern England, as you are so fond of telling us.

      Delete
    3. There are real Scots all over the World. We built the Empire and made the Enlightenment. Great engineers, scientists and entrepreneurs who dragged people out of poverty. We you exclude the Irish and other Johnnie foreigner from Scotland we probably have more real Scots living outside of Scotland.

      Delete
    4. GWC talking about real Scots - what a laugh - he is a Britnat turd nothing Scottish about him.

      Delete
    5. Why did so many Scots need to leave British Scotchland in search of a better life?

      Delete
    6. My brother left for Canada with his brood 1964. I know why he left but I have never asked anyone else, have you?

      Delete
    7. Why did 1 in 10 leave in search of a better life while I was growing up in the 80s/90s?

      Scotland had net emigration. Again.

      It only stopped with devolution.

      Delete
    8. I do not know as I never asked anyone. Did you?

      Delete
    9. I did. It was because they couldn't stand seeing Britnat turds like you GWC.

      Delete
  47. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 5:52 PM

    It is truly unbelievable the brass neck of the Britnat media and the Britnat Tories the lengths they are going to to try and get Cummings off the hook. He must really be the real PM after all. Sky news have an expert on saying the chance of them spreading the virus on their trip to Durham was next to nil. If that is the case then why the hell was there a lockdown at all.

    Britnats are a bloody sick joke.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Never trust an expert as they will be contradicted by another expert. The Sottish Nutt sis have loads of experts and that is why they lost the 2014 referendum.

      Delete
  48. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 6:56 PM

    The two main Britnat news (propaganda) channels in Scotland - STV news and BBC Reporting Scotland - not a word on the Dominic Cummings scandal. Therefore no need to ask Jackson Carcrash or Truthless Davidson for any comment on it.

    Britnats in Scotland - Englands stupid colonial House Jocks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hardly a scandal Nutt Si.

      Delete
    2. It's a disgrace not a scandal Nat si.

      Delete
    3. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 9:12 PM

      Bloody House Jocks - pathetic creatures.

      Delete
    4. Hopefully we bring sense and sanity to you Nutt sis.

      Delete
  49. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 9:28 PM

    Britnat Brexiteer Cummings says his wife was ill with the virus. He should have stayed at home and looked after his 4 year old while his wife self isolated and tried not to catch the virus. Instead he drags them all up to Durham in a long car journey almost guaranteeing that he and/or his son will catch the virus during the long car journey. Not to mention spreading it over the service stations that they would stop at.

    The Britnat Brexiteer is an idiot and incapable of looking after his 4 year old son. This useless twat is running the country.

    This idiot represents the Brexiteers and is running the UK. The Buffoon called Boris is being run by an idiot.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Is it true Cummings made other trips during lockdown GWC?

      It's all over the news.

      Delete
    2. You should ask him if it is of concern to you.

      Delete
    3. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 10:36 PM

      The Mirror reporting that Cummings did a Calderwood. Broke the rules twice but did not own up to the second offence. A second trip took place after the initial trip. Did he and his family get the virus a second time? Naw just lying Britnat Brexiteers.

      Delete
  50. Cummings made two trips to Durham. What a naughty Britnat? What excuse will they dream up this time.

    ReplyDelete
  51. National CorrespondentMay 23, 2020 at 11:14 PM

    I saw Cummings on the Portobello beach with Nicola Sturgeon. She was stripped to the waist and he was drinking Buckfast,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. National Correspondent - the Drug squad will be after you.

      Delete
  52. ScottytheScotinScotlandMay 23, 2020 at 11:56 PM

    Has Cummings ordered Johnston to sack Cummings yet.

    ReplyDelete