I was a bit sceptical about whether John Swinney would actually go as far as appointing Kate Forbes as Deputy First Minister, because it marks her out so obviously as the most likely successor. The reports about a succession plan being in place to stop her made me wonder if she'd be sold short with an offer of a lesser Cabinet position. However, I suppose the likelihood is that the deputy role was part of the price of her support, and having entered into the deal he decided to act in good faith.
I think that does now leave the SNP in a significantly better position than they were under Yousaf. There's more to party unity than just reintegrating the Forbes supporters, but nevertheless that's a key part of it, and seems to have been achieved. And as long as Swinney is sensible enough to allow her to do it, Forbes' charisma can be utilised on TV to try to get the SNP back into a winning position in time for the general election. That would offer the best of both worlds - Swinney as the reassuring bank manager figure in ultimate charge, and Forbes as the public-facing inspirational communicator.
So I'm slightly more optimistic than I was before, but much now depends on what the next few opinion polls show. Is there going to be a 'Truss effect'? By that I mean Yousaf may have done so much damage that it's impossible for the leadership team that replaces him to rectify the situation. But if the polls show the SNP at least holding steady, they may just have something to work with.
I’m sure some won’t like it. The tories and labour in particular. Now a right wing Tory has seen the light by joining labour into Starmers open arms surely some labour supporters must recognise how right wing new labour has begun. Independence is the only way to have a social democratic country.
ReplyDeleteGive the independence nonsense a break. The majority of the country realise the disaster it would be.
DeleteEat your cereal.
DeleteAnonymous Nawbag at 5:28PM
DeleteGo read Effie Deans or Wee Ginger Dug.
Her position as a future SNP leader will largely be down to how much support she has amongst Holyrood parliamentarians. So if they stay woke, then Kate’s chances will remain broke. Excuse me, sorry.
ReplyDeleteOne caveat - I think the SNP Parliamentarians have less say over who’s their leader if they are in opposition.
For Indy to happen, we could be looking at SNP lose 2026, Kate comes in as leader after, Alba hopefully elected a few MSPs 2026, Yes starts to reunite (failure is a humble teacher), campaign for 2031 Yes alliance vote at holyrood.
That’s the earliest timetable I can see. Swinney, I have no animosity, but he’s a soft Yes / devolutionist, and the SNP current strategy is no action on Indy so until the current Clique is out of power in SNP, then there is no path to Indy.
Ivan McKee should really be in that cabinet.
ReplyDeleteI agree, so far the unity Cabinet concept doesn't seem to extend beyond Forbes herself.
DeleteJust realised he could still be a junior minister, I suppose.
DeleteStill he’s far more experienced and capable than the current batch of younger Cabinet ministers.
There is no 'seem' about it. Mind you, Swinney isn't spoiled for choice, and hope is the last to die (probably by the end of the year). The same people making the same fuck-ups is the pinnacle of their capabilities. I recon they will still get about 25% of votes in the GE.
DeleteThis is a good outcome. For the first time in ages, there is a reason to be optimistic.
ReplyDeleteBrian
Now Starmer welcomes defectors from the Tory party, this is what Labour has become
ReplyDeleteWhat have the wretched SNP become??
DeleteWell labour with todays news are proving, they are red tories. Right wing ones at that with their latest mp.
DeleteStarmer, this man is for turning to paraphrase a former tory PM
Aye and she , Tory MP for Dover , wha has gaun tae Labour is a fan o Boris!
ReplyDeleteSwinney’s next test is governing without SGP kowtowing.
ReplyDeleteBrian
What has a Tory defecting to Labour got to do with the SNP?
ReplyDeleteNats clutching at straws as per, I suppose.
Tories= Labour . All just Britnats!
Delete🤣🤣🤣🤣
DeleteBritnats just do not understand that we want indy to get rid o the Tories - labour eens an the richt blue eens- theres nae muckle tae choose atween them.
DeleteSoar Alba
Everything is interconnected. Starmer, resplendent in imperial office, union flag at his shoulder, welcoming Elphicke, resplendent with union flag scarf is a wonderful counterpoint to Swinney and Forbes. It throws into sharp relief the choices ahead. Judging by comments on English newspapers a lot of Labour supporters are also saying WTF?
DeleteI like the line up in the religion aspect: with Church of Scotland holding First Minister and Wee Free the deputy First Minister, things are in a proper balance.
ReplyDeleteTry writing a similar comment about a Muslim FM and hear how it sounds before you press publish .
DeleteThis is about the best outcome we could have hoped for, realistically. In time, maybe with a reshuffle, a few more dissenters could get back into cabinet.
ReplyDeleteIf Swinney could start a discussion that gets MacNeil back into the party that would be a very significant achievement.
Have the ministerial posts occupied by Harvie and Slater been axed?
I was told that they had been, but I can't confirm so.
DeleteYes, agreed - best outcome on offer. I can see SNP gaining some % points back off Labour now that we don't have the Performative Dundonian as "leader" any longer.
Hope Swinney builds on this momentum. Carpe Diem.
Brian
When Humza sacked them, he said their jobs would be 'absorbed' by other departments. A tacit admission perhaps that they were fake job titles given them by Sturgeon to pander to their egos.
DeleteI agree, MacNeil is an asset, but Team Sturgeon won’t see him that way & will want him well away from Holyrood 2026. He’s too independent minded to fall in line.
DeleteHe’s their best chance of winning Western Isles at WM so that’s all they’d want him for. He probably fancies his chances more going as an Independent than as SNP (however, not if SNP field a candidate), plus Torquil Crichton looks likely to win there.
I think MacNeil’s best bet would be stay as an Independent, run WM 24 which he’ll probably come 2nd due to Torquill / new SNP candidate. Run on Highlands List as an Independent candidate Holyrood 2026.
Within the party I think there is a genuine sense of calm and direction. Obviously the haters are going to hate and it wouldn't matter who was in charge or how unified the party feels they would just spout the same stuff as before. I mean the Labour party advocates here are hardly going to say anything positive are they :)
ReplyDeleteAgreed.
DeleteBTW - now would be a great time for Alba folk to come back into the SNP fold. Together we can outnumber, and outvote, the SGP fellow travellers.
Brian
Yes the Alba can rejoin now.
DeleteBrian - when are the next set of votes?
DeleteThink the answer is September for the NEC, happy to be corrected on that.
DeleteBrian
Thanks Brian. I’ll consider it. I am ex-SNP member. I will be voting Alba at WM & on HR26 List, but not a member of them. Will probably vote SNP 1st vote, but i’m not certain yet.
DeleteIt’s a convincing argument - rejoin & shape from within again. I’ll consider it, thanks.
ALBA vote wasted at westminster.
DeleteYes, I am aware of how FPTP works thanks.
DeleteI'm happy enough though would have liked to see a few more new fades in cabinet.
ReplyDeleteAbhainn
Who would you like to have seen?
DeleteI would like to have seen a non-binary Eskimo-African blind disabled vegan single parent in charge of the Department of Lemonade.
DeleteThere's 2 years to the election ; you can , with so much to put right, see why the FM largely kept the cabinet. The acid test will come in two years.
ReplyDeleteelphick crosses the floor
ReplyDeleteIs she the one that advocated flogging foreigners? She should feel at home in New New Labour. I hope they've got their immigration coffee mugs back from Farage.
DeleteIs there any point commenting on Swinney's pointless leadership? Forbes as secretary for the economy? I didn't even know there was one. The whole grinding machine is just so boring. Please get rid of them.
ReplyDeleteNot really surprised at your level of ignorance. Trot off now silly billy.
DeleteAmazing that so many gender obsessives think this is a move to the right and a move against equalities stuff.
ReplyDeleteThese people are off the charts mental. More than happy for them to leave & join Greens.
Bizarre new YouGov, Westminster poll (data set still to be released) has Tories reduced to 13 seats (SNP on 19 seats). Labour would have 85% of total HoC seats. Elected dictatorship with a titular PM taking orders from Tel Aviv. Be very careful what you wish for.
ReplyDeleteThese figures would certainly make sense, as an awful lot of people have had enough of both the Tories and SNP.
DeleteI am an Alba member for one reason only: Independence.
ReplyDeleteI am ex SNP member too. SNP appear to me to be captured by gradualists and devolutionists, many of whom are also obvious careerists. The gender identity politics has been a political weapon for a lot of these grifter types.
If Kate can force a lot of those types to leave, then that is a good thing, and I may consider voting SNP at WM or Holyrood constituency. My List vote will stay with Alba until something big changes.
Also SNP1 Alba2 at any future Holyrood election is the best way to secure Independence. And for that to happen, we need sensible open minded people in the SNP. Not tribal careerists
I think Kate is soft on Indy, but at least she is open minded and keen to work with people, & brave enough to stand up against the Sturgeonite faction.
The real obstacle to independence isn’t the SNP, it’s the fact the majority of the country don’t want independence!
ReplyDeleteA tired and somewhat jaded Rob here, I'm sorry, but some comments read as "Swinney's really growing into the job. Really. Honestly." I'm going to wait and see while maintaining normal aspiration.
ReplyDeleteSeen elsewhere, "Bizarre new YouGov, Westminster poll (no detailed data set as yet). Tories reduced to 13 seats, SNP on 19 seats, Labour occupying 85% of total HoC seats" Any comment?
The polls show that some days there is a small majority in favour of independence and some days there is a small majority against. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and go for a second referendum? I am :)
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with the comment that Kate Forbes is soft on independence,Durinf the last leadership election,she presented a very good argument that winning over those unsure about independence was to demonstrate clearly the link power of independence to everything important to voters,such as health,education,environment,cost of living,international relationships and so on.For years I have listened to unionists saying that the SNP was obsesed about independence,suggesting that it had nothing to do with what was important to peoples lives.important to peoples lives.It has been irritating that thus far the SNP has not demolishes has not adequately demolished that argument.I find Kate Forbes approach refreshing.
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 9:51am
ReplyDeleteThe obstacle is the SNP.
Polls sit around 50-50, sometimes Yes is higher, sometimes lower. We need more than 55 in reality, so yes I agree the numbers aren’t there, but for a starting base its a brilliant baseline.
There hasn’t been an Independence Campaign since 2014, & yet polls sit at 50-50. Imagine how high it would go if we all actually campaigned for independence in local communities?
Polls also indicate that around 65 % want either more powers or Independence, and the potential support for Independence is 65%. We need 55 but 60+ is what we should be aiming for, and to get there we need grassroots localised campaigning, engagement with the wider Yes movement including other parties, coupled with competent government, a refreshed and sincere policy announcement from SNP on Indy, new ideas post Indy - ie get rid of Growth Commission & replace with good ideas about currency & Europe, get rid of the gender pish & lets explore land reform.
There needs to be a lot of rethinking & reaching out to wider Yes movement and parties. A citizens constitutional convention would be a good idea. SNP are blocking this.
Once the desire is in place to acheived Indy, grassroots campaigning, knocking on doors, town hall meetings for several years is required.
After the support is there, we enact the mechanism. 50%+1 in any Holyrood election. And we get all Yes parties to agree to this:
SNP
Alba
ISP
Solidarity
SSP
IndyForIndy
Green (they’ll take the longest to agree)
What are you Hall meetings?
Delete@ 10.21 As I suspected, absolutely terrified of a second referendum. :)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 10:51
DeleteI’m all for a 2nd Referendum, but how do you think it will come about?
SNP repeatedly ask WM for permission to hold section 30? Tried and failed & will continue to fail as long as support is at its current level.
Hold an illegal one? Won’t be legitimate. Unionists will rightly ignore, and it will International community will ignore. Catalonia tried & failed at this.
Force WM to give us one? Sounds more like it to me, but how do we force them? Well, a united Yes Movement can force WM’s hand if all Yes parties stand on a 50%+1 ticket @ Holyrood. WM could potentially offer one to circumvent such a scenario, or vice versa - winning more than 50% at Holyrood could be enough pressure to obtain a legal referendum from WM.
But, hey, if WM don’t want to give Scotland a legal referendum & support for Indy goes above 50%, & we declare support for Indy via a Holyrood election, then it’s not really our fault it there is no referendum - it’s WM’s fault.
I've removed an extraordinarily daft comment (which amusingly started with "I'm being serious when I say this") asking why "supporters of rival parties" care about who is the deputy leader of the SNP.
ReplyDeleteTo state the obvious -
1) The identity of the Deputy First Minister of Scotland affects everyone in Scotland.
2) Kate Forbes is not the deputy leader of the SNP. That's Keith Brown.
But if you have any other moronic questions, do let me know.
I have to say I think despite the “I am being serious” opener, I felt it was a legitimate question, James.
DeleteThere’s a lot of healing between Alba and SNP required. Dialogue can only be a good things. A lot of Alba folk (myself included) do care a lot about who runs the SNP - a lot more than I care about who runs other parties, its quite unusual in that respect.
Moronic Question, what's the new strategy for Independence? Is there one, or is it the usual big talk and no action?
DeleteThere isn't a new strategy for anything, and it doesn't look like that's going to change. So, the rich will still get free university education, the rich will still get free prescriptions, the rich will still get free childcare, etc, and the rest of us will still be paying for it. Much of that could easily be means-tested by the DWP, the same as Scottish child benefit is.
DeleteAnon @ 2:30 Agreed. We should also abolish universal healthcare, access to the police, and schools. Means-test these services instead. It's not fair that rich people can send their children to school for free.
DeleteI see a number of the Alba faithful, led by the characteristically gormless General Secretary, are working themselves into a tizzy about the Minister for Independence being abolished. The same performative, symbolic post they quite correctly mocked and derided when Humza the Brief first established it.
ReplyDeleteEven seen a couple of nutters babbling about Forbes being a Green-plant because of the colour of her dress yesterday.
It must be tedious and exhausting to search for fault and outrage in absolutely everything. It must also be dispiriting to realise that this is the calibre of some of Alba’s most ardent supporters.
I’m an Alba supporter, and am quite glad to see the position go.
DeleteNever thought it was anything other than empty gesturing, & don’t see why it can’t be covered by Robertson’s “constitution” brief.
If the SNP are going to be a devolutionist / home rule party, then i’d rather they were honest about it, so this is welcome news.
Sometimes hard to tell ardent supporters from dishonest concern trolls looking to stir trouble. The latter seems to be favoured Unionist ploy these days as no one is interested in their pro Union bollocks.
DeleteLet's not be tribalist - unionists are part of our country too.
DeleteI think there are quite a few Verdolians posting on here, hoping that people will believe them. Well, I don't believe that Tyrone from Coronation Street is a lesbian. I know that France exists because I've been there. And I don't think Terry Wogan is the leader of a paramilitary outfit in Africa. Better luck heat time.
DeleteAnon at 1:42, the majority of this country aren’t interested in your nationalist bollocks.
DeleteAnon at 2:47. I agree the British nationalist bollocks is beyond tedious.
DeleteAnon at 5:47, the vast majority of Scotland are sick to the back teeth listening to pathetic independence nonsense.
DeleteThat's so obvious when you say it. That must be why aroundb50% of people favour independence. Vast majority.
DeleteGood to see John Swinney has axed the Minister for Independence, which was obviously a scandalous waste of taxpayers money.
ReplyDeleteI agree, maybe he is serious about uniting the country. This was a good start.
DeleteIt's beyond question that the SNP is a devolutionist party, not a party of independence, despite its farcical claims.
ReplyDeleteIt is desperate to make devolution work, which is just fine by Westminster. Power devolved is power retained.
Murray Foote is the real leader of the SNP.
If Alba doesn't adopt abstentionism they will be rightly seen as just another unionist SNP.
They can only adopt it when they become electable. Currently, having two MPs gives them a continual profile that abstentionism wouldn’t.
DeleteNo MP has ever been elected on an Alba platform. None ever will be. Even more irrelevant than wee daft Harvie now is, and that’s an achievement. Sooner they go and are replaced by a list only party with integrity and honesty the better.
DeleteAbout the only favourable thing I can think of about the Reign of Swinney is that he won't be fighting over a comb. The word 'moribund' comes to mind. Now we have Swinney, Slater, Harvie, (Salmond). Sarwer, Ross, and Cole-Hamilton look a lot more appealing. None of them come across as moribund, mad, or bad.
ReplyDeleteScotland is definitely crying out for Jabba Baillie as Health Secretary. It’s long past time we had a Hutt in the role.
DeleteSarwar is a Starmer glove puppet and Ross and the Lib Dem chap are a joke. You are very easily appealed to. I actually think Ross and Sarwar have done the SNP and Scotland a big favour by pressing for Humza to quit. You can tell by their faces that they are not pleased with how this has panned out. Maybe Starmer will put Natalie in charge of his branch office.
DeleteAnon at 3:34, the biggest joke is the SNP, who’ve been in power far too long. The country is crying out for change, and these charlatans have had their day.
DeleteThat is a pity because it is pretty clear that all they are going to get from Starmer is more of the same. How do you like your gruel...lukewarm?
DeleteJabba the Hutt would probably have been a better health secretary than Nicola Sturgeon, Humza Yousaf, and Ipad Bill.
DeleteHarvie laying into the SNP at FMQs.
ReplyDeleteAnd so the fun begins.
His comments about Forbes might carry more sting if he hadn’t been so instrumental in putting her in the position.
DeleteHarvie’s tantrum last week killed the goose that laid the Green egg. And he’s brought it entirely on himself.
He could have had Humza wrapped around his little finger, in government or out of it - and Kate Forbes would have remained resolutely out of government if Humza stayed in charge.
But thankfully for the rest of us, wee Paddy couldn’t see past his own ego to recognise that fact. Witless and self-absorbed to the last.
1950s? Patrick wouldn't know what the 1950s were like if they bit him on the arse.
DeleteHarvie definitely came over as being extremely petulant. After watching his performance I think that some neutral observers might have concluded that regardless of the outcome, Humza did the right thing by divesting the SNP of their association with him.
DeleteI didn't have much respect for Humza but ironically the most 'progressive' thing he did was ridding us of the poisonous Greens.
DeleteWhich capital letter is Ross Greer?
DeleteIt looks super-encouraging. I really do think the SNP have come out well.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I think it is awful for the Green leader to attack Kate for her Christian values. Pretty shameful.
DeleteEvangelical Christian fundamentalist values the same as Sarah Palin, with added creationism. Do you like the Taliban?
DeleteBigot
DeleteTraditional Scottish presbyterian values. I support Kate in holding them.
DeleteDo you like the Taliban? They are evangelical Islamic fundamentalists. Forbes is an evangelical Christian fundamentalist. They share quite a few core values.
DeleteI like Christian values.
DeleteYeah right, Wee Frees exactly the same as the Taliban! Meanwhile back on planet Earth.
DeleteThere’s no such thing as “Christian values”. Christianity is such a sprawling faith with so many competing traditions and doctrines that attempting to characterise any “Christian” values is a nebulous and laughable endeavour.
DeleteAnd I mean that as an entirely neutral observation, before you get your hackles up.
Christian values? That would be an ecumenical matter.
DeleteChristianity is not a faith. It's a religion. Using "faith" is intended to portray religion as a doe-eyed seeking of truth but it can't hide the fact that religion is religion, always looking for sone scapegoat or other to persecute. Best to ignore it.
DeleteTrying to equate Kate Forbes to the taliban shows you up as a nasty, ignorant, inadequate moron. It is good that James allows you to post. It lets everyone see what you really are.
DeleteChristianity is a religion in which faith is important. It has a lot of values that I agree with. It is however possible for people with a wide range of political views to be Christian and have Christian values. Partly because Christian values underpin so much of what we take for granted now.
DeleteForbes' choice of church is the problem, not her religion. The wee frees are have highly unusual views on a lot of stuff and a congregation of about 7,000. I have one of their churches at the bottom of my road, and they are out with stalls (plural) punting creationism at 8am at weekends. They also ring my door to tell me that Charles Darwin is in Hell. That is where the deputy first minister of Scotland is coming from.
DeleteA likely story.
DeleteIt is so likely it is real.
DeleteAs Yousaf claimed to hold the position of First Activist and JS has made no mention of it, can we assume that has also been dissolved?
ReplyDeleteLet’s dearly hope so. Another of Yousaf’s transparent performative wheezes.
DeleteIt's intriguing that Forbes' confirmation vote as DFM only passed because the Lib Dems abstained.
ReplyDeleteIt is likely a deal was done.
DeleteIs it possibly because not even they are as stupid as the greens and the tories?
DeleteFair point. The Scottish Lib Dems have a long tradition of generally being a reasonable party.
DeleteHumza Yousaf did no damage at all, he did everything that his succession to FM required of him to do, he dumped the rubbish dumped the Greens put Alba in its place then took the blame for it as he paved the way for John Swinney and Kate Forbes to do what comes next
ReplyDeleteDo some people think any of this was an accident or a fluke?
It was like a prepared lollipop. You don't get them by holding a bag of sugar near the cooker.
DeleteDo you actually believe what you posted, or is it intended as satire? The current position is all down to the stupidity and arrogance of the greens. They believed they were in charge. They put the S G in an impossible position, and paid the price. They will continue to cooperate once their list vote fate becomes clearer to them in ongoing polls.
DeleteWee snivelin Harvie's nose is out of joint. So it must been a good decision to get Forbes as DFM!
ReplyDeleteVery impressed by the pro-business stance taken by Kate after so short a time in the job.
ReplyDeleteI recon that 75% of the Scots electorate will not vote SNP. Nobody's interested in John Swinney, or even Kate Forbes being pro-sell everything off to global corporations. They are dust.
ReplyDeleteThe Alphabet Queers will stop any chance at unity.
ReplyDelete