Sunday, January 20, 2019

On the subject of blogging etiquette...

Disappointingly, Mhairi Hunter reacted to the polite criticism in the previous post by blocking me on Twitter.  It's never pleasant being blocked by someone 'on your own side', especially an elected councillor.  But I have to say in this particular case it's almost a relief, because she does seem to have a major problem with dissenting views, no matter how courteously expressed.  (She once tried to shut down a point I was making by telling me to go on diversity training.)  I think it's worth just making a general comment about "blogging etiquette" here, because Mhairi is not the first person to react to having her name mentioned in a blogpost as if that is in itself a form of abuse. You might remember I was once accused of persecuting a pro-independence columnist because I mentioned her name in two different blogposts (!).  Perhaps some people just object to the whole concept of political blogging, but if it's going to continue to exist, it will unavoidably involve commentary about named individuals.  That's a feature, not a bug. We've all heard of the snowflake generation, but we're getting into the realms of the ridiculous if we now have a generation of journalists and elected politicians who have thrust themselves into the public sphere but don't want their names to actually be mentioned in public.

In her parting shot about me after the blocking, Mhairi made two complaints - firstly that it was a "poor show" for me to mention her without advance warning, and secondly that the namecheck had led to her being harassed by others, including by one who called her a "Britnat plant".  Call me cynical, but I have to say I am extremely doubtful as to whether Mhairi would have been any happier if I had sent her an email in advance - I think she just doesn't want to be mentioned without permission, knows that there's no particular reason why she shouldn't be, and is therefore scrabbling around for some plausible-sounding technical objection to the way it was done.  I haven't asked other bloggers whether they usually give advance warning to elected politicians about forthcoming criticisms, but I will openly admit that it isn't my own personal practice to send a telegram to Downing Street or the White House every time I make a comment about Theresa May or Donald Trump.  I'll keep that policy under review, but I do think it would get a bit tedious for all concerned.

If for the sake of argument there is a valid point of etiquette here, by definition that would mean personal criticisms in a blogpost must somehow be qualitatively different from personal criticisms on social media, because Mhairi and others who have objected to being named on this blog have no qualms whatsoever about criticising others on Twitter without prior notification.  (And I can say that with confidence, because over the years I've been on the receiving end of occasional snide comments from Mhairi on Twitter that I only found out about by chance later on - indeed that happened most recently just a few hours ago.)  So is the implication that a blogpost is "properly published" in a way that a tweet isn't?  I have to say I can't see it.  Twitter now provides viewing stats, and I've learned that my most popular tweets regularly generate more impressions than my blogposts.  Tweets may feel casual and disposable, but a personal criticism in a tweet is just as likely to be read by a large number of people, and just as likely to remain visible indefinitely, as a personal criticism in a blogpost.

As for me supposedly being indirectly responsible for a Twitter pile-on, for that to be a credible point you'd have to believe that it was somehow disproportionate for me to draw attention to Mhairi's approving words about Joyce McMillan's article.  But I'm afraid that it's impossible to sustain the idea that it wasn't newsworthy or noteworthy that an elected SNP politician endorsed an article that suggested an independence referendum should be put on the backburner for up to two decades, thus ripping up a flagship manifesto pledge.  I could have mentioned Mhairi, I could have mentioned Andrew Wilson, I could have mentioned one or two other politicians who endorsed the article.  But it self-evidently wouldn't have been disproportionate whichever name I had cited.  As a blogger I don't see why I have some sort of duty to hush up 'sensitive' tweets posted by elected representatives.  And yes, if those tweets reach a wider audience, people will react to them, and some people will react in a highly inappropriate way - but ultimately other individuals are responsible for their own words and actions.  I have no intention of tying myself up in knots trying to predict what the knock-on effect might be every time I make a perfectly reasonable point in a blogpost.

To return to the substance of the dispute, I saw Mhairi being challenged yesterday about the dubious claim that a consultative referendum would be "illegal".  Oddly, her reply was that it didn't really matter whether it would be technically legal or not.  She said that what people were really getting at was that any referendum that the UK government didn't agree to would be functionally illegal, because Scotland can only become independent if London recognises a referendum result as valid.  I can't make head nor tail of that point.  The whole purpose of a consultative referendum would be to pressurise London into coming to the negotiating table by demonstrating that there is a mandate for independence.  If it's possible to apply that pressure legally rather than illegally, of course that's not a technical or meaningless distinction.

And I've been thinking some more about Joyce McMillan's claim that independence has to wait until "consensus" and "harmony" have been established, in much the same way that devolution had to wait two decades after 1979.  It's worth remembering that SNP, Labour and Liberal/SDP politicians of the 1980s did not recognise any need to wait - they were all trying to establish a Scottish Parliament as soon as possible.  It would be interesting to know whether Joyce McMillan and Mhairi Hunter, if they could time-travel and go back to the 1983 or 1987 election campaigns, would advise opposition politicians to "cool your jets, let Thatcher do her worst, don't try to take any action for another 15 years".

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124 comments:

  1. I think you have made an error when you state:
    ..."personal criticisms in a blogpost must somehow be qualitatively different from personal criticisms on social media"...

    As I read your post, it was no personal criticism. Your post was about policy/political position that she as an elected SNP representative chose to associate her name with.

    Just because sources are identified in no way makes it personal...it makes it factual. I could not see any "outing" of a private person, or any personal attacks about their persona, and there did not appear to be any false attributions that slighted them. If we can not debate ideas and policies then not only is our current democracy in trouble, the Enlightenment has come to an end.

    We need to be far more precise with our language when responding to critique.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well said Anon. I view the likes of your blog James as alternate journalism. The blog in question was a critique of a viewpoint, not a personal attack. Mentioning prominent public individuals that supported it is part of reporting the issue. In future you could always offer mentioned individuals a chance to comment if you wished, but I don't think you have any requirement to contact people before hand. Especially if these people are: elected, prominent in the (issues) community, and active on social media. Blocking individuals, on any side of any debate, because they so happen to raise a counter point that you may either disagree with or shows your own stance up is troubling.

      Delete
    2. @Unknown - January 22, 2019 at 1:06 PM

      I would really like to understand your position. If you are willing, can you clarify which "vulnerable woman" you are referring to, and how are they vulnerable to be beyond policy debate?

      I am also not following you yet on where exactly in James' article he perpetrated an "attack" that you construe demonstrated he was an "extreme misogynist". It would be useful if you could provide the quote.

      Looking forward to your response.

      Delete
  2. I've read (and supported) James for a few years now and he is one of the politest commentators out there even when delivering devastating critiques. I don't see any problem.

    ReplyDelete
  3. 5% share UK wide for SNP in opinium, which suggests Scottish VI is well into the upper 40's. Seems they're not showing Scottish subsamples in tables any more.

    Don't really know who Mhairi Hunter is, so no comment from me on that matter. I imagine the general public are much the same; they don't notice social media spats.

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    Replies
    1. Why do the pollsters nit know this simple formula we have known for years? Suggests again that they aren't really paying attention. I mean : a lazy but greedy pollster could just use this formula to pretend to run a poll in Scotland. They could also just overpoll and have a legit one. But yes, by my count 98.3 % if 5% snp polls have been in a trendline for Scotland polls of SNP in high 40's.

      Delete
  4. What would happen if this was successful due to Scots MPs carrying it?

    Time for brexit to be EVEL / for England + Wales only?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46936405

    Downing Street warns MPs not to block Brexit

    Attempts by backbench MPs to remove the government's power to deliver Brexit are "extremely concerning", Downing Street has said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. With all due respect no. You are thinking in the mindset of someone in Scotland were politics is defined by yes/no to Independence politics.

      As a Scot 'exiled' to England for the last 15 years and involved in politics down here, there is not that style of politics.

      No body talks about English Independence. In actual fact the hardcore 'English /British nationalists' would actually vote against England going independent. If there is one thing they despise more than the EU it is Scotland / Northern Ireland becoming Independent.

      As for the more mainstream voter, as I said not even entered their mind. No mainstream party has ever proposed it so they have never thought about it.

      So no, England is not going to declare Independence in the event on Brexit not happening. Nor will they really blame the Scottish MPS. Conservatives will blame Labour for it not happening and Labour leavers will blame the Conservatives.

      Delete
    2. Ok, but England is used to getting what it wants in the union. If roles were reversed, English nationalists would become pro-indy quickly enough!

      Which leads us back to Scotland stopping brexit somehow. That would reverse roles spectacularly at a time when extreme populist English nationalism is reaching fever pitch.

      Not only that, but Scotland might block England's brexit only to then vote for independence. Are we seriously going to let Scots MPs (or Scots voters in a people's vote) stop brexit only for Scotland to go independent fairly swiftly afterwards?

      I don't think we should overlook this, not in the post 2014/EVEL/2016 world.

      Right now the 'Break up the UK train' is very much being driven by England, even if many of those on board don't really see that.

      The recent trashing of British unionist devolution was carried out by English nationalists. Hence Holyrood united against that; unionist and nationalist alike. Even the Scots Tories were squirming.

      Cameron was probably the last 'British' prime minister of the UK. He tried to appease the English nationalists; the result was EVEL and brexit.

      The last time, Yes was up against British nationalism. Well, the brits lost the EUref to English nats (it was 'English not British' that voted Leave, the brits voted Remain), so that's who is running BetterTogether? this time.

      Delete
    3. Sorry English nationalism will soon switch to British Nationalism if it means the Union will break up. Tell them you have an answer for Brexit and they will listen, tell them it will mean Irish reunification in particular and they will tell you to f**k off. Why do you think the right wing press makes such a big deal about Corbyn and his support of a United Ireland. They despise Irish Nationalists and will never do anything that will benift them.

      Anyhow as I said further down. If you believe that there is a majority for Scottish Independence even if there is no Brexit then what England does is irrelevant.

      Delete
    4. Said often enough, but will say again . . . The esoteric 'do not like the idea of England independence' is not the foundation of English intentions.

      England has about £2trillion in debt which has to be underwritten so as to satisfy Markets. Not to be paid off, at least not right now. Bank of England just has to have assets to that value or thereabouts, and these have to be seen by markets to be realisable should it ever be necessary.

      Where ever can England get this, or large portions of it? Have you guessed yet? In or offshore Scotland.

      In this situation the English language almost has too few, too small words to describe just how important Scottish assets are to the wellbeing of the Bank of England.

      Delete
  5. The apparent shift from Labour to SNP that seems to be underway in polls would tie in with reports of membership collapsing by a 1/4.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/150-000-members-desert-labour-in-brexit-backlash-nvt8fgwfs

    At the height of Corbyn’s popularity following the general election in 2017, Labour was considered the “largest party in western Europe” with more than 500,000 members.

    In recent months, however, it has lost up to 150,000 members, according to three sources within the party. It is estimated that up to 100,000 are not up to date with their subs and enrolment has slumped to around 385,000.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Ignore her. Mhairi Hunter is a minor local elected councillor with many weird ideas via a via Indy. I've often wondered if she's a BRITNATZ plant.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No she isn't and no one imagines she is.

      Delete
  7. Further to Scottish Skier's point on English natioanlism:

    "According to research by the Centre on Constitutional Change, which is based at Edinburgh University (the polling is by Yougov), Brexit is “dislodging long-held red lines about the [UK] union”. It says a majority of Conservative voters in England would prefer to press ahead with Brexit even if it led to the UK breaking up.


    Clear majorities of English Conservatives would support Scottish independence or the collapse of the NI peace process as the price of Brexit

    87% of (overwhelmingly unionist) leave voters in Northern Ireland see the collapse of the peace process as an acceptable price for Brexit ...

    Nearly half (49%) of English Conservative voters do not think Scottish MPs should sit in the UK cabinet and, in worse news for David Mundell [the Scottish secretary] as the SNP gathers in Glasgow, 24% of Scottish Conservative voters agree with them

    These figures suggest that 77% of Conservative voters in England think Brexit would be worth it even if it led to Scottish independence, and 73% of them think Brexit would be worth it even if it led to the unravelling of the Northern Ireland peace process.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. All well and good,but that's one poll offering hypothetical questions. Simply fact is that no mainstream political party is going to campaign on English Independence to get Brexit.

      To be honest cant work out out why as Scottish Independence supporters we should be even worrying about what England might or might not do. If we want Independence then we need to concentrate on getting and winning a second ref, not concern ourselves on England.

      Delete
    2. The pattern is very much post 2014 -> EVEL -> 2016.

      The effects of 2014 extended well beyond Scotland, as the effects of 2016 will extend well beyond England and Wales.

      I've supported indy since the age of 16 (1992 GE). I don't need brexit for that. However, some do (at least to tip the balance), and what is happening down there is driving the break up of the UK.

      Scotland was driving things back in 2014, but England's taken over since then.

      I am glad to see the Scottish government are about to put the foot back on the gas and take a sharp turn away from the cliff edge now everyone can see England is careering out of control towards it.

      The UK government system is breaking down right now in at least 3/4 home nations. Stormont has collapsed and a border is being pencilled down the Irish sea. Scottish devolution is being rolled back against the wishes of the 74%. England's desire for brexit may yet hit the buffers due to N. Ireland and Scotland, while its two main parties have civil wars over it all. Meanwhile, the cliff edge gets closer and closer.

      There's little question that now's the time to depart.

      Delete
  8. Hello again. How do I change my name from "unknown"?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Select "Name/URL" and fill in the "Name" field.

      Delete
    2. "Unknown" sounds less like a creepy nat si stooge

      Delete
    3. Poor, desperate, damaged Cordelia.
      Hammered and screaming abuse before 8am.
      State of it.

      Delete
  9. Mary Hunter is so woke she has to take sleeping pills. Any article by a female is supported, no matter how insane, illogical or pathetic the reasoning. Any criticism by a man has to be shot down as sexist, racist or phobic.

    Remember the anti-semitic mural? A picture which includes an image of Soros and Rothschild is automatically anti-semitic because they are jews, some jews said it was, and that's good enough for her. It didn't portray the jews any differently to the other capitalists opressing humanity. There were no massive hook noses, braids, skull caps, aprons, those flat hats, and the rest of the costume you saw from der sturmer. Just another couple of billionaires who dictate to governments and over-ride democracy. Putin influences elections and he's evil. Rothschild buys governments but don't dare say a word or you'll be howled down for jew hatery.

    Some jews say shooting Palestinian babies through the skull is a jolly good thing. Has anybody asked the demented old cow if she agrees with them? Logically she must agree that slaughtering children is lovely because a jew said it was.

    While the lines of communication with the councillor could they weedle an answer from her as to how humans can change sex. If she sees Jonathan Yaniv as a male or female pervert? If liam madigan is a lesbian because he has a girlfriend? If the the entire 3,500,000,000 years of human evolution can be overturned by political correctness and 2 + 2 does indeed equal 5?

    You also upset that creature NAEBD. Which is a jolly good thing as he/it really needs a good kicking IMNSHO.

    Keep up the good fight and don't let the insignificant rabble get you down.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You really are a credit to the cause

      Delete
    2. You hit the two key topics that the Yes movement should really focus on to win over the undecideds: The Jews and the trannies.

      Great stuff, not at all fake yesser.

      Delete
    3. What I'm about to say should not be taken in any way as an endorsement of Anon's comment, which I strongly disagree with. But I would just gently point out to you, Commentor/Naebd, that "identity politics won't win over the undecideds" is also a problem for the advocates of gender self-ID, who appear to be running significantly ahead of public opinion.

      Delete
    4. Commentor is naebd? Mind = blown

      Delete
  10. 20 years on for the Scottish Parliament and what is the legacy! Three times as many politicians milking the Taxpayer and Foodbanks. We have never had it so good.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What a marvellous reason to support independence, Glesga! Never mind all those MPs' salaries, we wouldn't have to pay £300 a day to every one of those hundreds of lords who wants to come and guzzle taxpayer-subsidised grub swilled down with taxpayer-subsidised booze!

      Delete
    2. You omitted to mention the over abundance of Jock MSPs and how you fash would end foodbanks.

      Delete
    3. All those that are afraid to use their own names should NEVER BE BELIEVED.

      Delete
    4. Sorry, but no.

      Anonymity and pseudonyms are a critical part of freedom of speech. I never use my given name on the internet, for reasons of personal safety, and it in no way invalidates my opinions or statements.

      Delete
  11. Have to say young James that you are right to do this article and mention folk. I find it strange that people who want independence would want to delay. I do not fear another Scottish referendum however it seems they do. No doubt the said Councillor (will not mention her name) is just happy to collect her salary.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cordelia returns.
      Hic.

      Delete
    2. How's the head, Cordelia? Or are you still baltic? That cauliflower brandy probably seemed like a good idea at 2 this morning, eh?

      Delete
  12. Well made article.
    That folk are getting 'pile ons' recently has much to do with anxiety that many feel indy is on/off/this year/next year! Much like BRexit to be honest!

    Some SNP politicians are awfy sensitive to being criticised which is a shame as I always thought that most of them love a challenge. Perhaps there is some misdirection going on? Who knows..

    Political bloggers should be free to blog about political stuff so those in the public eye need to explain why they should not be referenced in public!

    I'm afraid I blocked Ms Hunter some time ago when after being challenged about the proposed changes to GR she could not see the damage that would result to women's rights. My choice, but I am not a political blogger as such!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It's not good at all. I was over on twitter and saw some not so nice comments about James here, wtf people! It's playing into Britnats' hands just nicely isn't it.

      Get a grip people on twitter, and if you are mentioned in a blog complain by all means, but the comments about James were childish and uncalled for. We all have our faults, say things we shouldn't, but making insults instead of having a discussion will do us no end of harm!

      My own take on independence is that we need it soon, Brexit will happen, we will have our human rights removed, and Scotland will suffer hugely, and be taken back decades if not in fact centuries. We have a problem as in 99% of the media and Britnat state are anti Scottish, anti independence and pro Britgov, no matter who is at the helm at WM.

      The SNP, third largest party at WM, have been sidelined, ridiculed, and totally left out of any Brexit talks,now if that doesn't tell us what is in store AFTER England's Brexit is FORCED on Scotland, we are seriously lacking in basic common sense.

      Let's not talk about 20 years time, that's ridiculous, many of us could be gone by then and what of our young people? They will have left Scotland, the ones who are able, the ones with skills needed in Scotland. We don't want to go back to the days where people HAD to leave to have a life.

      There are many people coming to live in Scotland as we speak, many from England, if we talk to them, and get info out, they will see that an isolated, narrow minded, economic basket case is not why they came to Scotland, it's what they are leaving behind. They will vote for Scotland's independence, with a place at the EU table very much at the forefront.

      Let's leave the Britants to argue among themselves.

      James is a good writer, and has Scotland's interests at heart. That's what blooming well matters!

      Ditch the insults on twitter people, I myself won't engage with that, it's just too negative and damaging. Leave the negativity to the Britnats, they have nothing positive to offer Scotland, people see that more and more and want a decent, life affirming future for their kids and grandkids.

      We are up against it, with the Britnats having tons of money, and all levers of power they can muster, but they cannot hide the fact that Brexit will be nothing short of disastrous for Scotland.

      Delete
    2. 'There are many people coming to live in Scotland as we speak, many from England, if we talk to them, and get info out, they will see that an isolated, narrow minded, economic basket case is not why they came to Scotland, it's what they are leaving behind."

      Just in case anyone hasn't noticed... https://www.facebook.com/groups/englishscotsforyes/ - Membership = 1528

      Delete
    3. "The SNP, third largest party at WM"

      Also second biggest party by membership in the UK.

      If you removed all the "Labour Party Member by Union Membership" folks the SNP might actually be the biggest. Would be interested to see stats on that.

      Delete
  13. We will have more rights when we leave the EU. The main one being the right to not have political interference from foreigners.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Groundskeeper Willie Clown dancing round in his wee kilt ranting his eeeyoo Mcjocko gibberish. Dance and rant away GWC.

      Delete
    2. You've uncorked early today, Cordelia.

      Delete
  14. But Scotland would still not be able to set all taxes,collect all taxes and spend all taxes as it would have with independence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What about people who want special carriages on trains so they can travel naked if they want? How are you nat si Bible bashers going to make that happen?

      Delete
    2. Cordelia's hammered and telling us entirely too much about its fantasy life.
      Hic.

      Delete
  15. Going to be funny watching the rats in the sack try and reform BetterTogether.

    Labour f'n hate each other. The Scots Tories are call calling each other assholes. Nobody's even heard of the Lib Dems these days.

    And will BetterTogether2 be pro or anti Brexit? What about immigration? Will it be for hard brexit?

    They'll need to agree on this; there's got to be some sort of plan to present as 'Safer and stronger'.


    Who will lead it? That Leonard fella? What's his first name again? Robin or something?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I think they should adopt a happy slogan, something like Strong and Stable.

      Delete
    2. Will they offer more devolution lol.

      If you think about it, there's not actually going to be a pro-UK campaign is there?

      I mean even if you could get enough of them together in a room without them clawing at each other's eyes, what the hell can they offer that actually sounds appealing?

      Strength? Ireland is whipping the UK.
      Stability? Lol.
      Devo max? You've already pulled our leg on that one.
      A seat at the top tables! UK doesn't sit at these.
      EU membership? Nuff said.

      I suppose they could threaten to take oor Scots poond aff as again, but that'll probably just give the same few% poll boost it did last time.

      Nope, if you are pro-uk, now really isn't the time.

      Delete
    3. Iain, what about Independence in Europe!

      Delete
    4. Ice and lemon, Cordelia?

      Delete
    5. It'll be "Brexit is bad, therefore so is all constitutional change". They're already pushing it

      Delete
    6. Sure, but we are looking at a choice between two constitutional changes.

      One 7/10 Scots think is absolutely mad (latest polls); the other 7/10 Scots think is a great idea (5/10) or they are not in principle against it (2/10), but want good justification for (Panelbase). Like as alternative to a mad option.


      There is no question this time that staying in the UK is the highest risk, most economically damaging option. It's also the 'much less devolution' option; the roll back being already underway.

      Delete
  16. Long live the backstop!

    ReplyDelete
  17. A great, historic day for these Isles.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46924163

    Dáil Éireann centenary commemorated in Dublin

    Monday is the centenary of two seminal moments in Irish history - the meeting of the first Dáil (parliament) and the start of the War of Independence against Britain.

    Section 30s avoid Britian such subsequent ass whippings. As do backstops.

    ReplyDelete
  18. What the world is learning about the UK right now:

    Never trust the UK. It will do everything it can to try and welch on its international treaty obligations, even if that could destroy peace in troubled regions.

    Useful to know when the UK is about to come looking for new trade treaty.

    ReplyDelete
  19. The Irish Republic no longer exists as a nation. They have to obey the EU and set up a hard border when the UK leaves the EU. Take note Scottish Nat sis.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aye, one down the Irish Sea.

      Start peeling St. Patrick's cross off the union Jack. It will be a dead flag soon enough.

      Delete
    2. Saints are mythology and the Union flag has all of the myths on it. To seperate the myths still keeps the idiots that believe in them intact. However it seems that the ROI will have to set up a hard border on orders from the the EU when we leave the EU. skier would you follow, such orders from the new EU would be Empire?

      Delete
    3. skier you have given up on Scottish independence and want to hand over power to the EU fascists. You should take a step back grab yer inadequate baws and think. Dae ye really want the junkers tae run our Scotland?

      Delete
    4. Cordelia's dismissive remarks about Ireland are strange when we consider her own family came from there.

      Delete
    5. Poor desperate tormented Cordelia, sharing far too much of its inner fantasy life again.

      Delete
    6. Cordelia's bizarre raving about its fantasies has disappeared.
      Little bit of hangover remorse, perhaps?

      Delete
  20. Never mind that, what about the English veto. They want to take back control from the EU because it's wrong for a country to be overruled by anyone.
    Trouble is they can't see Scotland's identical predicament in this phoney Union.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The EU 27 not lifting a finger to try to stop brexit, but just saying politely 'We're sorry you are going; the door remains open' absolutely reaffirmed why I voted Remain.

      By contrast 'Now is not the time and English is taking back devolved powers from Scotland so it can getting a better brexit for itself' absolutely reaffirmed why I support independence.

      That's before we get to the solidarity with Ireland.

      The two unions couldn't be more different. That's what brexit has taught Scots.

      Delete
    2. The ROI will have to obey EU orders and make a hard border with check points when we leave. I assume you will no doubt blame the English monsieur skier. And who will your New IRA pals attack!

      Delete
    3. The border will be in the Irish sea. That's what the international community will enforce, with economic sanctions, even military force.

      The world will not tolerate England breaking the United Nations Belfast Peace Agreement, as brokered by the USA with the backing of the Irish lobby there.

      #Backstop

      Delete
    4. Cordelia started its lunchtime of booze early today, then.
      It's so hate-filled that you can't help but laugh at the impotent rage.

      Delete
    5. That is funny skier! Military Force indeed. So NATO will attack the UK one of the main funders and start WW3 over ROI the country that did not fight the Nazis. I hear all our nuclear subs are putting to sea and battlefield nuclear weapons are being primed.

      Delete
    6. Cordelia's hammered and fantasising about uniforms again.
      It's been said that all the nice girls love a sailor - Cordelia being the exception...

      Delete
    7. Cordelia's back online at 2 on the morning fantasising about her usual topics. Even if she's only splashing out on Tesco cider she must be spending a fortune on booze. Unless she's moved on to even strong substances to keep the buzz up.

      Delete
    8. Poor, broken, drunken Cordelia and its willingness to share entirely too much of its inner fantasy life.
      The loneliness must be agonising.

      Delete
    9. The Jock Nazis are training councillors in an attempt to keep the expected mass suicides to a minimum when we Leave. Wee Jeremy the anti EU so called Stalinist is now backtracking from leaving. The joke Jock Nazis and Labour are at one with each other. Makes ye laugh dint it.

      Delete
    10. Hammered and shouting the odds again, that's Cordelia.
      It's so damaged it doesn't realise we're all laughing at its little hissy fits.

      Delete
  21. It's funny, the 31 countries surrounding the UK are all unanimous in stating that they will not tolerate the UK welching on the peace agreement over the British occupied territory of N. Ireland.

    Which bit of this do brexiters not get?

    The UK is not a powerful country. It does not sit at the top tables; certainly not past March 29th.

    Back when it entered the EC, it was still a pretty powerful empire state. It's not any more; it's just really England; a modest sized European country. After all, England doesn't even have the support of Scotland, Wales or N. Ireland on this matter.

    So really, it's not 31, but 33-34 neighbours opposed.

    The border, if there is to be one, will be down the Irish Sea. It is only on fantasy brexit island that people delude themselves.

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    1. Strange the EU have stated that 'it would be obvious' that there would be a hard border in the case of no deal.

      Delete
    2. In the Irish Sea.

      If England doesn't confirm to WTO laws and enforce a hard border between the UK and Ireland/the EU, Argentina will be first of a long list calling for it to be expelled. All the old enemies cannae wait tae pounce.

      If Ireland enforces a hard land border, it breaches an international peace agreement. If England does that, it is also in breach. Economic sanctions follow. A breach of a peace agreement can also be considered an act of war.

      So the border goes down the Irish sea.

      If you read what was really said today, as reported accurately in the European press, you can see what is being politely hinted at. It's the only solution; hence the backstop.

      If you read the deluded British press, no deal is now amazing as it gets one over on those pesky furriners, including the dumb micks. They'll have to breach the peace agreement lol. Dumb fuck paddys lol! No surrender! Fuck yous all! We don't ever want to trade with you or any of your friends anyway! Fuck off Frogs! Fuck you krauts!

      It would really not be wise for England to commit an act of war against one of the members of the 27+ strong alliance it borders by breaching the peace agreement multiple times.

      The border will be down the Irish Sea.

      Ultimately, that's appears to be will of N. Irish people too based on the polling we have.

      Delete
    3. I read it in the Irish press. So goods traveling from Northern Ireland to Rep of Ireland will have to travel by sea then? If not then they will have to be a land border. If Ireland refuses not to protect the border with a third country then its cannot be in the single market, its is really that simple.

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    4. Yes, it can protect a border down the Irish Sea. It's that or the UK is in breach of WTO rules and an international peace agreement.


      That is how the very scenario you mention in the event of a no deal is solved. It's the only solution.


      Unless we are seriously into the brexit fantasy of the UK crashing out of the EU with no deal. Never having any trade deal with it's neighbours, and immeadiately breaching WTO rules before its even had a chance to take it's seat there. That or breaching the UN peace treaty it has with the EU.

      Nowhere in the news does Ireland or the EU say the will enforce a hard border on the island of Ireland, only that if the UK crashes out, there must be one somewhere and it will be up to the UK to fix that problem or it will be in breach of the GFA.

      The only situation where Ireland enforces a hard border is one where the UK has become a pariah state by breaching the UN peace treaty between it and the EU/Ireland.

      It's only Britain that is utterly deluded here. There is no way out of this. And all those trade partners are watching to see whether Britain just can't be trusted; the GFA treaty is the test.

      But I'm sure the prosecco sellers will sort it all out. They'll force the Krauts to come to the table and accept all britains demands!

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    5. If the UK has an open border with the EU but is only trading on WTO terms, then it must immeadiately open it's borders to all other countries or it is in breach of WTO rules.

      So the UK will have no choice but to breach the GFA or put the border down the Irish Sea.

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    6. Varadkar disagrees He also said that in a no-deal scenario Ireland would have obligations to protect the single market, the United Kingdom would have obligations to protect World Trade Organisation rules and both states would have an obligation to honour the Good Friday Agreement, protect the peace process and honour their commitments to the people of Northern Ireland that there will not be a hard border.

      So its upto both the UK and Ireland to sort out the problem. FRance and Germany have already backed the EU postion that Ireland cannot have an open border with a third country, either their is a border or Ireland has to find other ways to protect the single market.

      The border cannot be in the sea because goods move between NI and Ireland which does not have a sea between them.

      Delete
    7. Your last sentence is nonsense. There is already a legal border down the Irish sea between N. Ireland and Scotland/England/Wales. All we are talking about is introducing some technology at ports. People will never notice it. It's not like the land border where you have cows strolling across...EU citizen popping over to visit Irish friends in the N. for dinner etc.

      Anyway, Ireland can e.g. veto any new trade deals the EU is trying to strike if the 27 don't back it. Eire could start with the Australian one unless Australia says 'No deal' to the brexit UK too. Any country trying to strike a trade deal with the UK will have to walk away unless the border is down the Irish sea. Such is the power of the Irish veto. EU market is 10x the size of the British one.

      Right now Ireland is the reason for no deal with the UK. It can keep on being that and more forever. Ireland has the UK totally over a barrel.

      The border will be down the Irish Sea. Maybe not right away, but there's no doubt about what brexit will cause. The N. Irish population are already saying they're ready for reunification over a hard land border. If a hard land border is to occur, then a border poll it must be and the people will vote for reunification.

      Get read to tear the red strips off the union jack.

      Anyway, I think we've exhausted this one. The backstop's going nowhere; that we can be sure of.

      Delete
  22. P&O joining the likes of EasyJet.

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1087703244497997824
    @Reuters
    JUST IN: British shipping company P&O is re-flagging its entire UK-registered fleet to Cyprus ahead of #Brexit

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  23. Not much you can really say about this.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/22/dyson-to-move-company-hq-to-singapore

    Dyson to move company HQ to Singapore

    Sir James Dyson, the British billionaire inventor and outspoken Brexiter, is moving the headquarters of his vacuum cleaner and hair dryer technology company to Singapore.

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    Replies
    1. Rachael Liddy-WrightJanuary 22, 2019 at 11:21 PM

      And it's laughable that Ginger Spice is invited to Davos to give a lecture on social exclusion. Absolute joke.

      Delete
  24. Brexit, sook it up! We can manage our own economy. English dole queues up, scottish unemployment below 100,000 for the first time ever. Get London rule off our backs. The EU will welcome us..
    Our can do attitude chimes well in the EU compared to the British reluctance to engage with anyone on the basis of equality. There's a job to be done.
    We're primed and ready. Let's do it.

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  25. Brexit's turning into a roaring success in terms of sending furriners packing, that's for sure.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

    Sony to move Europe headquarters to avoid Brexit disruption

    Sony will move its European headquarters from the UK to the Netherlands to avoid disruptions caused by Brexit.

    Sony can set up next to Panasonic who left the UK for the Netherlands back in October.

    Thing is, this will not stop unless the UK looks like it will be staying in the single market and brexit has been forgotten about. As long as brexit is top of the agenda, so the queues of EU workers and company international HQ removal vans at the exit gates will remain.

    The delusional buzz around the high number of vacancies was madness yesterday. There's a reason this high number of vacancies yet unemployment actually rising (in England); it's because EU workers are emigrating en masse.

    Certainly, the flow across any hard border will be out of the UK.


    I wonder if they'll be discussing brexit food shortages on the radio again today. Was a lead item yesterday on the commute. Medicines are already running out.

    But hey, we can crash the UK out of the EU with no deal and tell the WTO tae fuck aff with it's rules so we can get one over on the paddies. We don't need deals with the EU or the WTO. A clean brexit.

    ReplyDelete
  26. EU spokeswoman has confirmed there will be a hard border. The ROI are prepared to take EU orders and break the provisions of the Belfast Agreement totally giving up Irish sovereignty to the new Empire. Junker the drunk claims there will be an EU army by 2016.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cordelia's hammered and ranting about empires again, like a good little colonial.

      Delete
  27. Looks like the Scottish/Irish Republican movement in Scotland are soon to be in the dustbin of history. The Brit Scots are far ahead of you lot of bum boys.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More drunken over-sharing of repressed fantasies from poor tormented Cordelia.

      Delete
  28. So how long will this 'no deal' last for?

    My understanding is as long as the trade negotiations take; these starting the day after (br)exit.

    Ireland will obviously us its veto in these over any hard border.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. skier, do you really think that the Irish will dictate British policy. The Irish made a big mistake in joining the EU like the British did. WE ARE LEAVING the Mafia EU. The Irish my recover their dignity sometime in future history.

      Delete
    2. Or are brexiters thinking about no trade deal with our 31 neighbours forever?

      Like, e.g. Belarus?

      Obviously, until the backstop is sorted, there's no Canada+ Canada- or even the kind of deal that Albania has.

      Delete
    3. Hence why we are saying au revior to Sony, Panasonic, Easyjet, P&O, Dyson...

      Delete
    4. If they do not want to take personal responsibility and undertake individual trading deals with free nations then that is their business. However they should not expect other free nations to capitulate to the EU beaurocrats.

      Delete
    5. State of this drunken mess, screeching about personal responsibility as if it's ever shown any.

      Delete
  29. skier, you seem to have a mindset that big brother the EU and Capitalists have the the right to run the World. May I suggest you Think. I know It is difficult for a narrow back Nat si like yourself to not toe the line.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sober up, Cordelia darling. You should try and catch up on your beauty sleep.

      Delete
  30. Oh dear, yet another major company preparing to up sticks..

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/24/airbus-brands-uk-government-handling-of-brexit-a-disgrace

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, blow me down. No-one could have foreseen that. What next, Wotherspoons HQ flitting to Croatia?

      Delete
  31. So, in Venezuela, after the economy has been totally trashed by one (with caveats) elected president, causing shortages of medicine/food, a mass exodus of people (like EU workers here) and public disorder, the world is now recognising a different president; one not elected to that office.

    This is how things work.

    You get 'recognised' if your opponent is trashing the economy and hurting the neigbours as a result, even if your opponent doesn't recognise you. Jeez, you don't even need to be elected technically, you can just UDI it sometimes.

    Independence comes from making friends and allies with your neighbours, not seeking the permission of your oppressor (which they must be if they don't recognise your independence).

    Worth keeping in mind.

    Makes you think e.g. of the praise Sturgeon has received for her very vocal defence of EU citizens living in Scotland. Quite the contrast to the xenophobic bile directed at these by the UK government. The £65 can't be undone; the true feelings are known.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. You will find that the USA has a helping hand in trashing Venezuela.

      Delete
    2. No one should legitimise the fascist coup d'etat currently being attempted.

      Delete
    3. I agree with you that it would be a coup d'etat, and the fact that Trump is on one side gives me an overwhelming urge to identify with the other side. But let's face it, neither the Maduro government nor the alternative have much democratic legitimacy at the moment. Chavez was broadly a democrat, but that seems to have gone completely out of the window since his death.

      The word "fascist" is over-used. It's possible that Venezuela could go the way of Brazil if the government falls, but that remains to be seen.

      Delete
    4. I chose 'fascist' carefully actually. Exactly the same people have been ranged against Chavez and Maduro from the beginning, all that has happened is that they have found a new figurehead.

      Their opposition to the government is motivated by both class and racial hatred, and they have repeatedly used violence to try and bring it down, for example as in this case: https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuelan-Youth-Burned-for-Being-Chavista-Dies-from-Injuries-20170604-0011.html.

      This has all also been carefully co-ordinated with Washington. (Treason?)

      The huge problems with the Venezuelan government don't mean that any and every attempt at replacing it should be supported.

      Delete
  32. alex salmond's defence lawyerJanuary 24, 2019 at 9:49 AM

    Do the nats not understand that what the companies in the UK are doing re: the EU, is exactly what companies in Scotland would do re: the UK? i.e. preserve their biggest market and stay in the stablest regime?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, they'll leave Scotland for e.g. Ireland or the netherlands if we stay in the UK.

      Delete
    2. alex salmond's defence lawyerJanuary 24, 2019 at 11:17 AM

      Scotland won't be in the eu if either brexit or independence come to fruition. Scotland is in the UK, and the UK is in the EU. If either of those 'in the' links break then scotland is not within the EU. It's pretty simple transitive logic. Sure it may be easier to apply to join afterwards, but scotland would be out.

      Delete
    3. Yes, that's the reason for independence; so Scotland can (re)join the EU relatively easily as you say.

      Delete
    4. The reason for independence is to be independent and not dictated too by an elitist unelected foreign body.

      Delete
    5. Ah yes, the House of Lords. Bigger than the PR-elected EU parliament, yet for a population 1/10th of the size.

      Delete
    6. The HofL and the EU Parliament are not required. Half of the MSPs could be done away with tomorrow and no one would notice. The taxpayers are being ripped by this gravy train.

      Delete
    7. Just another yoon troll telling outright lies.

      Scotland and england are the only signitaries to the treaty of union. When Scotland becomes independent then the UK no longer exists. At that point either Scotland and england inherit membership of the EU or both are kicked out.

      The good Lord Tebbit made this exact point in a HofL debate a decade ago. And it remains unchallenged to this day.

      Why did cameron not ask for a ruling from the EU to clarify this matter? He knew the answer but having it confirmed would have destroyed the lies and fear campaign against Scotland.

      Yoons are fond of that letter which tells us what happens when PART OF A STATE leaves an existing member. That tells us nothing about Scotland as WE ARE THE STATE.

      Funny how unionists don't seem to care about being an actual union but actually claim that we are just part of england or some colony.

      You'll have to try harder. English Ally Cameron won't be happy with your SIU productivity. No bonus for you this week.

      Delete
    8. And what has that senseless rant got to with an over abundance of politicians! Dare I ask.

      Delete
    9. Cordelia's accusing someone else of senseless ranting.
      *sounds the irony klaxon*

      Delete
    10. International law and precident is clear on this. If Scotland became independent it would form a new state and have to join international bodies (UN, EU, WTO etc etc) as that new state.

      The 'UK' (or what ever it becomes called) which will be the UK as it is now minus Scotland, retains membership of all international organistations (NATO, UNSC etc).

      A good example is the Russia, when the USSR broke up it retained its seat at the UNSC because it was the original state.

      A google search of 'successor states' brings up a host of further clarification if needed.

      Delete
    11. Russia also took all the debt of the original state too.

      Delete
    12. Yup, in return for assets of countries that were part of USSR. I'm sure the rUK would do the same in exchange for a percentage of an Indy Scotlands oil revenue for example.

      Of course the debt issue has nothing to do with originator and successor states mentioned in the original comment.

      Delete
  33. It is a recurring theme I have seen spouted that I'd leaving the EU is so hard imagine leaving the Union.

    This is of course nonsense.

    1) The SNP are not divided on independence like the Tories are on the EU.

    2) By aiming to rejoin the EU Scotland does not need to forge dozens of trade deals.

    3) Scotland has no GFA to backstop or DUP wingnuts to appease.

    4) It is improbable that the any negotiations for the next 50 years anywhere in the world will be as incompetent as the Brexit ones.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Well, seems the internal polling is looking bad for the unionists going by today's news.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It kind of looks that way. In a totally unrelated manner, I'm reading the biography of Casement with half an eye on the film Groundhog Day.

      Delete
  35. In unrelated news from an alternative reality.

    Duncan Hothersall. Yes THAT drinking weathershield, stated outright that he has NEVER worked for the labour party.

    Was he not an election agent for ian murray? Did he not campaign as a labour member of worse together? I saw him and a mob of the labour youth stormtroopers delivering leaflets and harassing old people.

    But he has literally NEVER WORKED FOR LABOUR!

    The man has something wrong with his head.

    ReplyDelete