Sunday, August 19, 2018

What actually is a "People's Vote" anyway?

It's sad to see an intelligent and talented man such as Rory Bremner (who I genuinely used to be a big fan of and in some ways still am) making a bit of a fool of himself with a hopelessly contradictory attack on the pro-independence movement.  He claimed on Twitter that Yessers need to accept the result of the 2014 independence referendum, stop demanding a rerun, acknowledge that Brexiteers are now the real enemy, and...er...join the campaign for a rerun of the 2016 EU referendum.  Quite why the 2014 result must be regarded as sacred for all time and the 2016 result must be immediately set aside isn't entirely clear.  Perhaps it's because the Leave campaign only won in 2016 by telling voters a pack of lies, which is completely different from how the No campaign won in 2014 in absolutely no way whatsoever.

Elsewhere, I was one of several people who "profoundly saddened" the leading anti-Brexit campaigner Professor Tanja Bueltmann yesterday.  There was an awful lot of "profound sadness" emanating from that direction, mainly because SNP supporters were challenging her view that any failure to support a UK-wide rerun of the 2016 referendum (a unionist project if ever there was one) constituted harmful "division". She pointed out that "until a couple of hours ago" she had been a supporter of Scottish independence, which begs the obvious question of just how meaningful or thought-through that support had ever been if an argument on Twitter was capable of ending it in the space of a single afternoon.  I mean, if arguing with people on your own side was enough to do the trick, James Mackenzie and the Richard gang would have converted me to No years ago.

I'm a bit puzzled by the whole "People's Vote" schtick in any case.  It seems to be intended to contrast with the 2016 referendum, which must have been some kind of "Elite Vote", in spite of the fact that 33 million people took part in it.  Yes, OK, it was a deeply unsatisfactory process because of the fact that the Leave campaign broke the rules, but how do you prevent that happening again?  Rules can always be bent or broken and nothing is likely to be done about it until long after the vote is over.  What else could be made different from the 2016 People's Vote?  Theoretically the franchise could be widened to include EU nationals and 16 and 17 year olds, and yes, that should be done as a matter of principle.  But in practice it would simply mean that Brexiteers wouldn't accept any narrow Remain vote as valid, and would immediately start campaigning for a third referendum.

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39 comments:

  1. Dinnae ken where tae start!
    James you are so right. The Whole need and case for full self-government is laid bare by this people's vote shit.. Whose people eh? Seems we're invited to take part in their Great British rerun campaign where as usual we'll be bit part players whose views can be disregarded if we vote differently from our overrulers.
    I briefly considered this but it's clearly a bit of a constitutional trap for Scotland.
    They're treating us like bairns and are irritated at us putting the Scottish interest first.
    People's vote my arse. This is an English civil conflict. When it's over Scotland will have an opportunity to put our case to the EU for full membership. Respect for Scotland is a lost concept in the UK.

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    1. As petitioned, 1448/2014, to the EU during the indyref - not the naive type of petition making a refusable request, but a citation of ECHR article 8, the human right of family life, + it will always be there for anyone to cite + use as a legal resource.
      A case put to the EU for full membership falls, and would be invalid + void for the EU to accept, if it follows the citizenship system that Yes proposed in that ref. The case will only be legit to make + to succeed, if it includes that our citizenship by parental descent is unrefusable.
      To do that, + to have no Scottish Nats' civil conflict against doing it, is necessary to our genuineness of having the welcoming cosmopolitan Europhile standard of society we keep claiming to have.

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  2. The amount of patronising that went on was off the scale. It is, apparently, up to Rory Bremner and Ming Campbell to tell us in what order we must decide on constitutional issues and never mind that there's no great reason for Yessers in particular to trust them after their carry ons in 2014. Laughable.

    It's because all sort of lies were told in 2016 (this, I do not doubt) while, it would seem, only truth had a place in the No campaign of 2014 and, well, the latter just wasn't as important as what Rory and Ming want so, you know, just stop being so selfish.

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    1. They can't even be arsed to offer to support an indyref2 for supporting their EUref2. They might be lying if they did, but they could at least make the offer.

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    2. We need to do it the Irish way and frighten the population with poverty and economic collapse then have more referendums until the establishment wins.

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    3. I have to say I'm right.

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    4. I have to say she's right too.

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    5. Very right. Very right wing. She enjoys biting the heads off goldfish

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  3. So let’s say England votes by a much smaller margin to LEAVE but a bigger REMAIN vote in Scotland is just enough to swing the overall vote to keep England IN the EU–what would we be told then? Any guesses?

    Aye–you guessed it. That situation would not be regarded as a UK-wide vote – it would be regarded by the Great British Nationalist Press as the ‘tail wagging the dog’. You can just see the headlines in the Daily Mail, so you can: "Dock Sturgeon's tail."

    And that is exactly how such a second result would be spun by the BritNat media. The simple truth is this: WM will ALWAYS ensure that England always gets what England wants and expects; in this case, even though the UK-wide vote went REMAIN, England will get its full English Brexit regardless of how Scotland votes. That’s the simple truth and it will only ever change when we take our future and our lives into our own hands. Our vote counts only when it is in agreement with that in England and even them it's questionable.

    Brexit isn’t Scotland's problem–it’s England. They voted themselves into this mess and it's not Scotland's job to get them out of it.

    We have a 'get out of jail free card' to answer Brexit--and we better bloody well use it.

    (Best of three anyone?)

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    1. Poor desperate JOCK Nat si wanting Scotland tae be run fae Brussels.
      Traitor.

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    2. You really are a poor desperate jock natsi

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    3. GWC2 is right again. She always is.

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    4. GWC2 AKA The Hon. Cordelia Bracely-Dubois

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  4. " But in practice it would simply mean that Brexiteers wouldn't accept any narrow Remain vote as valid, and would immediately start campaigning for a third referendum."
    And No voters following a similar result in a second Scottish referendum wouldn't do this because............

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    1. They would be perfectly entitled to do so. Get a party proposing a 3rd Ref (to recreate a new Union with the other countries of these islands) and have it placed in their election manifesto. If their manifesto wins the most support in Scotland at the election THEN (and ONLY then) will they have every right to call that 3rd referendum to recreate a 'new' Union.

      Just as the SNP has ALREADY DONE.

      It's called 'democracy' and it never stands still (however much Ruth Davidson wishes it would).

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  5. Which audience did these people think they were appealing to?
    Certainly holding a protest in the capital of a country which overwhelmingly voted to remain in Europe's Union seems a bit like trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs.
    We Scots don't want a hard,soft or blind Brexit.
    We want a TomTom exit (do a U turn).
    Not going to hapoen however,England appears to be content with the result,so that is where these people should be expending their energies,not in our country.

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  6. I see GLASGOW WORKING Arse is spouting it's usual Commie pish. Aye lets all go down that clowns route and we would be ruined in a week. Never has so much piffle ever been spouted by one such complete arsehole eh GWC

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Paul SORE RING PIECE the Nat si bum bhoy fae Coatbrig in denial. Pretending tae be Scottish. Yer Francis is not welcome in Scotland.

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    2. John Knox AKA The Hon. Cordelia Bracely-Dubois

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    3. An Herr Pope Frank is coming over Paul's ring piece.

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    4. Cardinal Polish AKA The Hon . Cordelia Bracely-Dubois

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    5. GWC2 AKA The Hon. Cordelia Bracely-Dubois

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  7. I see People like Rory Bremner and Gavin Esler and other Ordinary People want to hold a vote in which only People can vote. Maybe Gavin could get Vote Nob Orders ("a grassroots movement") to organise a Brexit referendum re-run. Vote Nob Orders are the very ones to ensure that only People get to vote.

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  8. The whole episode in Edinburgh, featuring Bremner and Esler et al, was one of utter britnat arrogance and ignorance towards Scotland.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Most Scots think they live in the corrupt EU although corruption is now politically acceptable. Sad Scotland, when did a great wee country give in to the mob!

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    2. She's right.

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  9. Scotland voted 62% remain. Our vote was ignored by London. Nae reason to repeat the process. Indeed polling seems to show 66% of Scots against this Brexit madness. Let's choose our moment to break free from a disfunctional UK.
    The next referendum will enpower Scotland. It will be for Scottish Independence not the delusional notion of British exeptionalisn.

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  10. I see that the new abuser veilees is a friend of the same disgusting racist, sexist and ageist councillor who abused P Bell then ran crying to the media claiming to be the victim.

    There does seem to be a pattern developing where SJW white knights are abusing prominent Yessers. Probably to turn off female voters who are now backing Yes.

    Yoons really will stop at nothing to keep us in chains.

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  11. The People's Vote organisation's own video of their little demo describes it as the "Edinburgh regional rally". So that's them off to a flying start winning over hearts and minds in Scotland, then.

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    1. They just can't help themselves. But it was nice of them to take a short break from their trip to the provinces to give up the metropolitan view. Thank you, sirs.

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  12. Interesting set of figures release yesterday showing Scotland having a massive budget surplus despite the best efforts of the english overlords and their quisling helpers.

    £13 Billion they scream. But that's £13 Billion including £4.5 Billion of interest payments on england's debt. Excluding £3 Billion of Spirit duty generated by Scottish Distilleries but credited to england.
    That's the claimed deficit down to £6 Billion without even breaking sweat.
    It also includes pension payments. Every penny of which would be paid by the london treasury post independence. That's the entire claimed deficit vanished and we've not even added the true value of our oil.

    A Multi-Billion pound surplus and all proven by the figures published by our enemies. Lovely.

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    1. And the NHS waiting lists grow from 6 weeks to 22 weeks! Food Banks still exist!! And the Jocko Parliament is in over abundance of representatives who never worked for a living.

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    2. Jimmy Glesga John KnoxAugust 24, 2018 at 7:24 AM

      GWC2 AKA The Hon. Cordelia Bracely-Dubois.

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    3. Yes, I heard the lying, biased BBC Radio Scotland erses.

      The day previous, the female [Milla/er], was screaming - "Have you ever refused a photograph...", at the Scottish [SNP] Government's Jamie Hepburn. She never received the answer she desired, so told him -"Cheerio, cheerio..."

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    ReplyDelete
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    1. You forgot to address this to the troll, pal.

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  14. Even the most rabid BritNat couldnt claim the EU took the UKs oil.
    Which surely scuppers the claim we'd be ruled by Brussels. In 2014 we had just one sunday paper. How in the name o the wee man did we even get 45%!
    This time we'll have the national 7 days a week.
    The arguments against Indy are getting weaker by the day,and will disappear when the UK exits into fantasy land next March. Also the EU will no longer be restrained in interfering in a member states affairs and be able to welcome talks for Scotland to apply for full EU membership. Tick Tock.

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    1. So by your own words you want the EU TO INTERFERE in Scotland! Some independence ya knobend.

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    2. GWC2 AKA The Hon. Cordelia Bracely-Dubois

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