"So for heaven's sake let's make sure we never exercise that right", is the subtext of the rest of his article.
I don't know whether Mr Logan is speaking on behalf of the SNP leadership, and whether his column is part of a softening up exercise for an unpalatable message that will come more directly afterwards, but if so that would be extremely depressing. He even resorts to what is by now the rather tired old Gotcha attempt of: 'If you think the UK government would never agree to a referendum, why do you think they would respect the result of a de facto referendum and negotiate independence afterwards?'. That always sounds a hell of a lot less clever and sophisticated once you remind yourself that it's an argument for giving up and doing nothing at all: neither trying to secure a referendum, nor trying to secure independence itself. In fact, once you get to the nub of it, there are very few things in life that are less sophisticated than clarion calls for passivity and inaction.
Despite my disagreements with Alex Salmond towards the end, there was one thing I definitely did agree with him on, and I know that for sure because he said "correct" when I expanded the argument in a phone conversation with him two years ago or so. It goes like this. There are two things that need to happen for Scotland to become an independent country:
1) A clear majority of the people of Scotland need to vote in favour of independence in a democratic event - meaning either a referendum or a parliamentary election in which one or more parties have sought an outright mandate for independence in their manifestos.
2) The Scottish and UK governments need to negotiate an independence settlement, that is then ratified by the Westminster parliament.
We have no unilateral power to make 2) happen, because it clearly takes two to tango. But we have absolute power (and by 'we' I mean the people of Scotland) to make 1) happen. The UK government can block a referendum, but short of abolishing democracy altogether it can do nothing to prevent scheduled elections from taking place, so there will always be a way of exercising our inalienable right to an expression of self-determination, and of securing a democratic mandate for independence. The obvious point is that if there's one-half of the equation you can do, and one-half that you can't do for now because it is being frustrated by others, you get on with doing the bit you actually can do. You do that because winning a mandate for independence is an end in itself - it would be a historic moment in which the Scottish people take confidence in themselves for the first time in centuries. But you also do it because it's an absolute prerequisite for the negotiation of an independence settlement to ever happen.
Mr Logan's argument is the equivalent of saying you shouldn't go to a train station because you can't force the train to turn up - when the rather more salient point is that if you never go to the train station, it is you and no-one else but you who is guaranteeing that you will never be getting on a train. Winning an independence mandate will not force the UK government to grant independence or even to come to the negotiating table. But it will completely transform the psychology of the situation and open up options that were not there before. If, for example, the SNP regain a majority of Scottish seats at Westminster in 2028 or 2029, those seats can be used as leverage to back up an independence mandate from the people - either by means of parliamentary disruption tactics or by temporarily withdrawing our MPs from Westminster until the UK government agrees to negotiate. There are still enough believers in democracy in the London media and establishment that there will begin to be a feeling that it not sustainable to refuse to negotiate when Scotland has clearly voted for independence and is going unrepresented in the UK Parliament.
A cynic might almost say that the reason the Scottish Government don't want a mandate for independence is not because they think there would be nothing they could do to press the mandate home afterwards, but precisely because they know there would be plenty they could do and would be expected to do by their own support base. Perhaps the specific tactics they would be required to use in that circumstance make them feel queasy, and they would prefer never to be put in that position in the first place. So they prefer to do nothing at all.
But for anyone who actually wants independence, rather than to just use the distant prospect of independence as a tool to remain in power, that simply isn't good enough. Seamus Mallon famously said that the Good Friday Agreement was "Sunningdale for slow learners" - in other words Sunningdale or something very close to it was the only agreement that was ever going to be available, and unionist politicians had wasted a whole quarter of a century before accepting the inevitable anyway. In exactly the same way, the use of a scheduled election to win an independence mandate is the only option that is ever going to be open to us, and exercising that option is an absolute necessity if independence is ever to be won. Anyone who resists the inevitability of going down that path is simply wasting time, completely pointlessly.
*. *. *
Craig Murray is the latest in the long (pretty much endless) line of people to have been stabbed in the back by the Alba leadership. He has been blocked from standing as an Alba parliamentary candidate, for two reasons:
1) His prison sentence.
2) His candidacy for the Workers' Party.
The first reason is absolutely ridiculous, given that he only went to prison in support of Alex Salmond, who praised him to the skies for his bravery. As for the second reason, I pointed out at the time that standing for the Workers' Party should, on any reading of the Alba constitution, have led to Craig automatically losing his party membership, because the Workers' Party was putting up candidates in direct competition with Alba. The fact that the party constitution was breached to allow Craig to stay a member, seemingly just because of a private chat he had with Alex Salmond, and at a time when lesser known Alba members were being expelled or suspended left, right and centre for fictional breaches of rules that didn't even exist, demonstrated that Alba is a tinpot dictatorship where the constitution and rules are just for show, and where all that matters is the whim of the leader and those around him.
To allow Craig to remain a member while blocking him as a candidate is logically incoherent. Either you accept he broke the cardinal rule by standing for a rival party, in which case he shouldn't be an Alba member anymore, or you don't accept the rule was broken, in which case there's no reason to block him as a candidate. Trying to have it both ways is an absolute nonsense.
* * *
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Excellent article James. You put the case for a de facto referendum far better than I have ever done.
ReplyDelete" So they prefer to do nothing at all." That has been the case now for the last 11 years and no sign of any change on the horizon. Incredibly people who support this situation claim to want independence.
Craig Murray is a good man who has done a lot of good things but he got it wrong standing for the Workers party. You rightly describe Alba as a " tinpot dictatorship". A party that could have pressured the SNP in to delivering a referendum turned out to be a complete waste of time.
Independence supporters like me who are not political party people are poorly served by the choices available to us.
Winning a de facto referendum also has the benefit of removing the Britnats saying respect the referendum result in 2014. It will be the Britnats who will not be respecting the result of the most recent referendum. Britnats are desperate to prevent a de facto referendum - e.g. KC, Declan, David Francis, Swinney.
ReplyDeleteYes, agreed. In the apparent absence of a plausible explanation from the SNP as to why they are so against a DFR, it inevitably leads us to believe that it is solely for self preservation. Jobs for the boys and girls. The polytechnic drop out types who make up so many of the SNP elected representatives and are virtually unemployable elsewhere.
DeleteThat applies to apparatchiks of all political parties.
DeleteK Boyd at 2.02 pm .... "The polytechnic drop out types who make up so many of the SNP elected representatives" ... please substantiate your assertion with evidence, as I think it is the proverbial dog's bollocks.
DeleteAnon at 6.18pm - I'll leave K Boyd to answer your question if he wants to but I'll just say that having MPs and MSPs in the party who go to demos in Buchanan st and haven't got the good sense to immediately depart the scene when they see utter nutters holding up signs expressing a desire to decapitate people is indicative of the wrong type in the party. Unless, of course, it is SNP party policy to decapitate people you don't agree with.
Delete6.18 Are you sure you know what dog's bollocks means? You've said K Boyd's opinion is 'the best'.
Delete6.18pm has been watching too much Eastenders on the English telly or actually is a Cockney or has not got a clue what he is posting.
DeleteTechnically you had a variant of that at last year's general election. The SNP manifesto stated that a majority of seats won in Scotland would constitute a mandate to open discussion on independence. It didn't work.
ReplyDelete"Technically" is doing so much heavy lifting there as to render "It didn't work" completely meaningless. The opening line of the manifesto was completely contradicted by what followed immediately afterwards. It was an absolute dog's breakfast.
Delete1.02pm it was a mandate to ask for a sec 30 once again. In other words do nothing about independence.
DeleteSo if the SNP loose the Holyrood election, which is entirely possible, their option is more John Swinney?
ReplyDeleteIf thr SNP were to lise the election then John Swinney would resign his leadership. If however there us a pro-independence party majority again in Holyrood I genuinely believe there will be a big reaction from the Scottish public if Westminster continues to try to ignore a democratic mandate.
DeleteLogan uses this expression: "The truth is this ..." which is an expression used by someone trying to assert dodgy opinion is fact.
ReplyDeleteThe context is this: "the best anyone in the UK Government will ever do is congratulate us on our result", so it's safe to assume this is probably not true at all. He's using it as an excuse to take NO ACTION.
... and so the way to advance this process is to campaign for it within the only major political party ostensibly committed to independence, the SNP, however unpleasant and frustrating that may be. "Simples".
ReplyDelete“Ostensibly committed” to Independence? Pass.
DeleteThe SNP don't support independence. How do we know? Everything they do. Simples.
DeleteThe issues is though: We're still being asked to vote SNP regardless of what they do.
ReplyDeleteWe know that Parties who win elections press ahead with the rationale of: All is well, no need to change approach. With that in mind what is the pathway for change?
Alba ?
DeleteIt is looking increasingly likely that what is needed is a significant defeat of the SNP, a resultant clear out and a rebuild, all taking in excess of two terms. Those slagging of Ewing deliberately avoid acknowledging that he was saying this, because they want to preserve a status quote for reasons that have little if anything to do with securing INDY. I disagree with much of Ewing’s politics, but he believes in Independence, unlike the gender brigade as exemplified by Roddick. Until we return to the pre 2014 broadcast church, and improve the calibre of elected SNP representatives, we are going backwards away from Indy. “Not quite as shit as unionist parties” is not a good election platform.
DeleteNo, it is not looking like that.
DeleteAnon at 6.54 -- och, I was going to say something about your pile-of-pish first sentence, but life's too short.
Delete...and not shit enough to make us vote for a tiny, pro indy alternative or the Khmer Vert.
DeleteAbsolutely shit enough to make us lose interest and not bother voting at all though.
Trouble is, I'm beginning to think the SNP are ok with losing a fair chunk of their vote if it means they don't have to do anything about indy as a result.
If a new regime takes over the SNP they will be subject to similar criticism as well from the unionists, the media and the purists of the Indy movement.
DeleteExactly the type of response that is to be expected from the “everything is fine” brigade. Couple of questions that I know are going to be easy for you to answer. What is the SNP plan to further Independence? Why is it not given priority over public toilet arguments? Why did the party lose the majority of its seats in the last general election?
DeleteAnon at 8.52pm - define " the purists of the Indy movement."
DeleteHere we go, here we go……. The usual none-sense from britnat pretendy independence supporter
ReplyDeleteAs promised I emailed the SNP HQ to ask if they had a plan to get us independence - so far not even an acknowledgement.
ReplyDeleteIt is on the website.
DeleteNo it's not.
DeleteFrom the website:
Delete"...After the SNP decisively won the 2021 election and there is an increased pro-independence majority, there can be no moral or democratic justification for Boris Johnson or any Westminster government to obstruct the right of the people of Scotland to decide their own future.
We propose that the referendum should be held once the Covid crisis has passed – but in good time to decide that we want to equip our Parliament with the powers it needs to drive our long term recovery."
The choice is more John Swinney or a couple of wierdos. Such is the furrow they have plowed.
ReplyDeleteI didn't realise Farage and Starmer were candidates
DeleteAs a newly re-joined member of the SNP I hope you are applying whatever pressure you can for the adoption, by that party, of Peter Bell's Manifesto for Independence which pretty much satisfies your (and Alex Salmond's) requirement number one:
ReplyDelete1) A clear majority of the people of Scotland need to vote in favour of independence in a democratic event - meaning either a referendum or a parliamentary election in which one or more parties have sought an outright mandate for independence in their manifestos.
It's been several months since I read Peter A Bell's manifesto, so I'll have to re-read it, but I doubt it's in accordance with my views in quite the way you suggest.
Delete