By contrast, Ms Hendry is little-known and her chances of winning are zero. So if she takes a non-trivial share of the vote, the only possible effect of that will be to increase the chances of a Tory win in what is an extremely tight SNP-Tory marginal. The SNP won by a margin of just 2.3% in 2021, and in the equivalent Westminster seat the margin was identical in July's general election, in spite of Douglas Ross' very best efforts to hand the seat to the SNP on a plate.
If I can just gently say to Alba members (I was one myself until a few days ago), I know how angry you are with the SNP, and I totally understand that anger because it's very unlikely that independence will be seriously pursued for as long as John Swinney is SNP leader. But there is no scenario in which replacing an SNP constituency MSP with a Tory constituency MSP can help the cause of independence. It can only do harm.
The place to offer a radical pro-independence alternative to the SNP is on the list ballot, where seats can actually be won. Playing silly buggers on the constituency ballot can only detract from that alternative. Remember that Alba was explicitly launched in 2021 as a list-only party, and by going down this new path, the party is simply underscoring how much the original concept has mutated since then. Rather than a cooperative party that wants to work with others to bring about independence, Alba now looks like a harm-the-SNP-for-harm's-sake party, which if anything will put Yes supporters off from backing the party on the list.
For full disclosure, Christina Hendry is a member of Alba's Disciplinary Committee, and although I was only allowed into last week's hearing for a fleeting few minutes, I did see her there (I think she was one of about five or six in attendance), and based on views I've heard her express in the past, I do not have the slightest doubt that she will have been one of the people who voted for my expulsion from the party. But regular readers will know that hasn't affected what I've said above, because I've been consistently saying exactly the same thing since I joined Alba in the spring of 2021 - except in very rare circumstances (such as by-elections where a high-profile candidate is available), the party should avoid first-past-the-post contests and focus entirely on proportional representation elections where there is actually a chance of getting elected.
* * *
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"Rather than a cooperative party that wants to work with others to bring about independence"
ReplyDeleteI mean I do understand the annoyance after several olive branches were slapped away and Alba were laughed at and ridiculed for the suggestion that the SNP might entertain the idea of working together.
Why keep offering the hand of friendship to someone who would rather urinate on you than work with you.
Perhaps that's something the Alba leadership themselves should be thinking about, given the insanely high number of members and former members they've trampled all over, and the high levels of resentment they've needlessly generated as a result.
DeleteWhere they should have been a broad church, Alba have turned into a narrow, inward-looking, paranoid sect.
The sad thing is they are what's left of Salmond's legacy. He deserved so much more. We all did.
DeleteInstead, they're the Wings Party that even Stu Campbell can't put his full throated support behind.
I'd rather support Kenny MacAskill, Ash Regan, Neale Harvey & Angus MacNeil than practically anyone in the SNP leadership though.
DeleteThe best people the SNP have like Joanna Cherry, Fergus Ewing etc are essentially on the fringes of the Party who most SNP supporters would probably be overjoyed if they left. That's where we are.
You can't support Hanvey, MacNeil, Regan, etc without also supporting the nutjobs like McEleny who seem to have total control of the party.
DeleteHanvey was awful to the women office bearers. Spreading smears about them
DeleteHe is not a nice man
Ash Regan has made no impact since joining and seems to be very much on side with McEleny
James is right Alba are a toxic cult
Imagine talking about ‘Salmond blood’ it is not Game of Thrones?
Someone should put that in a billboard ad.
Delete"Christina Hendry says she's got Salmond blood in her
Thing is, hen, it's not Game of Thrones"
The SNP are a devolutionist party which is just a subset of Unionist party. They should be opposed everywhere.
ReplyDeleteSorry, Craig, but that's just totally irresponsible Campbellesque destructionism. The current SNP leader may be de facto devolutionist but he will not be the leader forever.
DeleteCraig Murray, are you THE Craig Murray? If so, can you confirm whether or not you are still an ALBA member, bearing in mind you broke the rules by standing for a unionist party?
DeleteIs there any way of knowing that is the real Craig Murray?
DeleteHe's posted here before.
DeleteJames says:- " The current SNP leader may be a de facto devolutionist but he will not be the leader forever. " I agree with that sentence but I suggest the point is how do you get a leader who is NOT a de facto devolutionist. The last three SNP leaders have been de facto devolutionists Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney. Who, how and when can this string be broken. It seems to me there is a long line of de factos in the SNP waiting to take their turn. Will we need to support the SNP for 30 years, say, before a REAL independence suporter takes the reins of the SNP? Will it ever happen?
DeleteHe has, aye. But not from Lebanon, as far as I know. Does Blogspot record comments' IP addresses? 😉
DeleteAs for the point he raised: I’m with James on this one. The SNP is the vehicle we have got. The Scottish public has refused to support any alternative. Who are we to tell them they are wrong? Who are we to "burn our ships" and expect the normal, healthy majority of folk who pay little attention to politics to understand our apparent madness?
I think James will rejoin the SNP soon, now Alba's thrown him out, and do what he can to ensure they have the right kind of leadership—the kind that WANTS INDEPENDENCE—in place after Swinney's caretaking is over. I wish him all the best. I don't think it will be an easy task, but I certainly hope it is possible.
I used to have Statcounter, which showed the rough location of each visitor, but I abandoned it long ago, so no, I can't confirm it's definitely Craig. But I think it's probably him.
DeleteA vote for a political party is an endorsement of approval for said Party. If the SNP were to win the election well that would suggest that people must be happy with how John Swinney is doing things, why would they then do anything differently afterwards?
DeleteBut we're essentially being asked to vote for them regardless and simply hope that John Swinney will leave at some undetermined point in the future and then hope again that someone better replaces him... isn't that exactly what was said about Nicola Sturgeon?
Do we have all the time in the world to hope that the SNP eventually gets it's shit together and that it doesn't shoot itself in the foot on other issues in the meantime?
@7:25. Unfortunately, we are not blessed with a position of power.
DeleteYou're quite right about the current state of the SNP, and those were my very reasons for abstaining in the July election. I’m no keener to vote for them in Holyrood, either, when independence isn't just off the table, it's nowhere to be seen.
But what else can we do? No one's voting for Alba or the ISP. They're both dead duds. Peter Bell will do well to score a single percent of the vote, let alone the 5% to keep his deposit. No one, no one at all, is interested in starting all over again with a different party.
That's how we were snookered when the Devolutionists took over the SNP. As long as they control it, we are powerless. If you wanted to engineer the independence movement's downfall, this is how you'd do it.
"Peter Bell will do well to score a single percent of the vote"
DeleteBlimey, you're about ten times more optimistic about his chances than I am!
Oh aye, Bell said he's not running for election, but I don't believe him. It's not a party if it never runs.
Delete@7:36. 1% is achievable by any daftie. Have you ever heard of the Scottish Libertarians? They're Scotland's right of centre Yes party! The leader seems to be local to here as he runs in every election. Reliably comes dead last, even in council by-elections. Even he gets 1% or thereabouts.
DeleteI'm sorry but that is complete and utter tripe. The Scottish Libertarian Party actually took 0.18% of the list vote in 2021. I'd be extremely surprised if Bell even matched that.
DeleteGetting 1% of the vote is bloody hard. Some random guy off the street like Bell isn't going to do it.
But the Claim of Right, the *Treaty* of Union and SALVO!
DeleteYou made me look up the Libertarians electoral record, and you're right: they're down at 0.1%, even in the Colinton by-election in Edinburgh council. I apologise for the decimal error, they're even shiter than I remember!
Did craig Murray not stand for election for a party that is pro Brit nationalist and yet be a member of ALBA. Happy to be corrected.
DeleteHe did indeed.
DeleteCraig is correct.
DeleteDo you think the careerist devolutionists are going to magically become a real independence party if we keep voting them in?
They need competition in our parliament. Competition who can attract Yes votes. Greens aren’t providing that. Has to be Alba.
Longterm winning strategy for Yes is SNP 1, (Alba / Green / ISP / SSP / Whoever) 2. But we aren’t at that position this election. We have no independence supporting parties in our parliament. Time to get one in there.
No, Craig is not correct, for the very reasons James and others have already pointed out. It is not necessary to stupidly stand in the constituencies and stupidly hand marginal seats to the Tories. Competition to the SNP, if competition to the SNP is needed, can and should be provided on the regional list vote only.
DeleteStanding in constituencies raises Albas profile. Yes it does take away some from SNP, but it also motivates non voters to go vote - including me. First time in 32 years I never voted SNP this year, & I won’t until they rediscover their purpose.
DeleteUntil then it’s Alba or ISP. Will even consider Sovereignty or Peter Bells party.
NONE of this situation is Alba’s fault, its squarely the failure of SNP sturgeon cabal. Why none of you say that is beyond.
Get SNP tae fuck. Only nawbags vote SNP. And saps too.
McEleny threatening to break down someone's front door in the middle of the night and ending up on trial in Greenock Sheriff Court "raised Alba's profile". Just because something raises the party's profile doesn't change the fact that it's a monumentally stupid thing to do.
DeleteAnon 1145 I am sure most SNP supporters are grateful. Who would want to be associated with a foulmouth numpty.
DeleteBased on a comment above, leaving aside Alba for a moment: Why have ISP been so poor?
ReplyDeleteThey've been in existence longer than Alba but have barely done anything to get themselves noticed. They've stood in the occasional by-election but beyond that it's mostly just been poor images that looked like they were knocked up in an afternoon on Microsoft Paint being posted on Twitter and going on daft crusades over niche issues nobody cares about like the oath of allegiance. I don't get it.
It's very hard to get noticed. Alba managed it, thanks to Alex Salmond himself. But even then the media attention was slim, and all too negative, given their obsession with his "baggage."
DeleteWhen it comes to ISP (and others), you're talking about breaking into politics from the outside. Without well known faces, whose politics people already know, getting any traction at all is a monumental struggle. Sometimes the right circumstances come along, like a single-issue independent breaking in, such as those Save the Local Hospital campaigns which ran whole councils and got MPs in England. Even they needed media attention, though, and enough local interest to get organised.
Here's a blast from the past for you: anyone remember the SSP? They're a pro-independence party of long standing, which had 6 MSPs at its height. They're still around, too, with their leader Colin Fox a familiar face at every Indy march I've ever been on. They broke into politics via Tommy Sheridan's Stop the Poll Tax campaign, focussed work in Pollok, and Sheridan's star power. Once he was ruined in a sex scandal, they fell out of view and were forgotten. Their downfall doesn't interest me quite like their rise, though. (Not to be confused with RISE (the party) of course, which did no such thing!)
TL;DR: You don't just walk into parliament. You need noticed.
I'd love to know though who thought: Do you know what will get us noticed? The oath of allegiance! Everyone cares about that this Winter!
DeleteDirect action might get them noticed, though it's a double edged sword at best. Splashing organic soup on Renaissance masterpieces in the local gallery doesn't win you friends, but the recent anti-Israel antics at Ferranti's in Edinburgh seem to be more in tune with public feeling.
DeleteI agree with you James
ReplyDeleteThe nation rejoices at that momentous news.
Delete"Alba now looks like a harm-the-SNP-for-harm's-sake party, which if anything will put Yes supporters off from backing the party on the list."
ReplyDeleteJames is 100% correct in his assessment of Alba - and outside of the miniscule, completely irrelevant bubble of Alba supporters on here and elsewhere, it is the common perception of most Scots, including most Indy Supporters.
Whether those facts are ever accepted by the more Alba-Diehard contingent, is neither here nor there.
Actually, in the middle of your screed, you did make an interesting point by accident:
DeleteIs this no longer "The Alba Blog"?
How will James survive! Clutch your pearls, folks.
I treasure your anonymous wee assessment of my comment, pal.
DeleteI really do.
Really.
Will you ever accept the fact that the SNP is no longer an independence party?
DeleteNo , cos you’re a britnat
DeleteAnon @ 1034.
DeleteLol.
No.
Who says so?
Anyone remember Jamie Hepburn getting a £100K salary as the 'Minister for Independence' in the Scottish Government?
DeleteThat position has now been abolished as well as the independence papers the SNP were publishing. It's no longer a primary focus or priority.
Ah...........so the SNP, who I have voted for, for over 40 years, were NOT a Party of Independence for virtually that whole time, because, as far as I can recall, they never had 'a Minister for Independence' during most of that time?
DeleteThat is your 'argument' is it???
Anon@11:10, "Lol, who says"? Are you a 13 year old schoolgirl?
DeleteLet's face it the only reason a Minister for Independence role was created was because people were starting to notice the lack of any effort being made towards independence. It gave someone a nice cushy salary and kept the mugs on side win-win.
DeleteIt also gave them a card in hand to play the next time they needed "administrative efficiencies." Just cut the "indy" minister, who'll care or even notice?
DeleteYet another anon nobody explodes.
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff.
More like this please.
Are you really???
ReplyDeleteIs the Reply button puzzling you again, Davey?
DeleteI take if you missed the anon shite I was replying to, before James (I take it) deleted it?
DeleteTry and keep up, pal.
Ta.
David may well have used the reply button, but I've deleted the comment he was replying to.
DeleteThe few constituencies the Greens have run against the SNP in have delivered more than their fair share of howlers. Ruth Davidson's election in student-heavy Edinburgh Central in 2016 on a miserable 29% of the vote comes to mind, while the Greens took 17% behind the SNP. They cost their allies dearly in July, too, including the Pentagon's favourite Stewart McDonald in Glasgow South where they came third and made all the difference. Fair gave some of us a chuckle that one! But the spoils all go to flag waving Brits.
ReplyDeleteSo aye, everyone has a right to stand. The SNP's inviting Yessers to run against them, the way they are now. But neither side of our movement wins. The seat just goes to the official Brit Nats, instead of the cryptic ones.
Crypto- rather. Not the currency kind, the nudge-wink political one.
DeleteIt can't exactly be said this has came out of the blue.
DeleteAlba formed as a list only Party and it's supporters actively told people to vote SNP on the constituency ballot in 2021. It then frequently called for a Constitutional Convention to take place asap for all sides of the Yes movement to work together.
Then in the planning phases for the General Election Alba advocated 'Scotland United' to the point of ridicule. There were several other olive branches and opportunities to work together over the past few years as well. All of which either slapped away or laughed at. I'm not surprised some have went "screw those guys, enough is enough".
Oh come on, you must think we button up the back. "Scotland United" was not a serious proposal, it was a typical Salmond wheeze, deliberately designed to be rejected or ignored, giving him the pretext to start doing harm by standing directly against the SNP in FPTP seats, which in retrospect was clearly his plan from day one.
DeleteHow do you force a large devolutionist party to join you in an de facto referendum pact AGAINST their will?
DeleteAs evidenced, it takes a lot more leverage than a microparty that has never won any kind of elected office in several years of trying.
Give Reform UK your vote, you know it makes sense.
DeleteYou're fooling no one, Stu!
DeleteJames Kelly thought that Angus Robertson's victory in Edinburgh Central was a great thing.
DeleteTells you all you need to know,
Good point. It would have been far better for independence if the Tories had held the seat, clearly.
DeleteSo that was mid 2021. Now it's almost 2025. It's down to the knowledgeable Blogmeister to explain the gains.
DeleteALBA is all over the place tactically-if they know what tactics are?
ReplyDeleteGet back to your cave and eat a banana.
DeleteIs that ALBA’s tactics- eat a banana?
DeleteAlba are an irrelevance, as is the ISP, SSP etc etc.
ReplyDeleteIn Umberto Eco’s excellent The Name of the Rose, the Franciscan Order is in theological dispute with more conservative Catholic opponents regarding the poverty of Christ. The Franciscans come up against the Inquisition (but not the Spanish one that no-one expects….), things don’t go all that well. Turns out that some monks on their own side are the Franciscans’ own worst enemies for making the most ludicrous statements & “arguments” supposedly in favour of the Franciscan position but, in fact and due to their excrement value, undermining the more lucid and considered disputation of their leaders.
As a YES movement our way forward is through the SNP, including recruits from Alba our wherever. Rump Alba can then be home to loonies who the SNP is far better off without. It would be good of the same could apply to the Greens too, but that seems unlikely as they remain a viable force.
"As a YES movement our way forward is through the SNP"
DeleteTens of thousands of people obviously disagree with that assessment considering the decline in SNP membership in recent years. The reasons for which have never been addressed...
The large gap between support for the SNP and support for independence itself also suggests the way forward would require multi-party cooperation as well as cooperation with people and organisations with no Party affiliation. Times have changed and the movement today isn't the same movement it was a decade ago, we need to adapt. That Constitutional Convention should have happened in 2021 and it badly needs to happen now.
YES LETS HAVE A CONVENTION JUST LIKE LABOUR ADVOCATED FOR 30 YEARS.
DeleteA CONVENTION MUST BE SOUGHT!
@11:07. That's exactly the point. I don't fundamentally disagree with 10:57, but you've hit the nail on the head. There's something badly wrong with the SNP. Fail to address that, and we're all still going nowhere.
DeleteIt must return to its independence roots, and throw off the "don't rock the boat, gold standard, just one more mandate" excuses for its rampant and cynical careerism as a party for buddy Brits.
* or wherever
ReplyDeleteThe British in Westminster must be having a right good laugh these days. Not only have they divided the yes movement but they have managed to fix it so that a good percentage of the yes movement are happy to vote for a devolutionist SNP whilst telling themselves it really is still a party of independence. Cunning bastards these British. They gain more years of helping themselves to Scotland’s assets.
ReplyDeleteGood evening, my beloved friends.
ReplyDeleteGood evening Brother Zulu.
DeleteGood evening from Rorke's Drift.
DeleteWelcome to you, my ethereal angel.
DeleteKC's been watching Zulu, apparently. Right on, you tiresome old geriatric flag shagger!
DeleteFor some regions a loss of 1 constituency seat for the SNP might be compensated for by a gain of 1 seat on the list. But according to my spreadsheet using 2021 results, in the NE the Cons could take that seat from the SNP and still get 4 seats on the list. SNP would go from 4.09% to 4.54% - not enough, 7th seat would go for 5.10% to the Cons.
ReplyDeleteSo yes, that could indeed be an indy negative move from Alba.
SNP are devolutionists....no Craig they aren't.
ReplyDeleteThe vast bulk of members want independence, but some of the elected members are so scared of being consigned back to the dole that they cling onto any money they get.
I seem to recall Salmond as being a graduation...as it happens.
“but some of the elected members are so scared of being consigned back to the dole that they cling onto any money they get.”
DeleteThis is how a devolutionist behaves.
And the vast majority of Labour members likely want House of Lords reform... Doesn't matter when you've got higher-ups treating you like mugs.
DeleteHow long as Labour been pretending they'll abolish the Lords? 125 years now? And still no dice, despite comprehensive control of Westminster.
DeleteExpect the same timescale for Scottish independence from the devolutionist SNP. Just fifty more mandates to go!
Salmond, along with many others, was a gradualist. He ceased being one when he called a referendum in 2012.
DeleteHe could have reverted to being one, having lost that referendum but two things happened: 1) polling for Yes was continually high 40s / low 50s, & 2) England voted us out of the EU.
The situation changed, & he changed with it. Bloody hell, he started a new party designed to maximise the Yes vote at Holyrood, held out an olive branch & asked his voters to vote SNP on his first vote. All he got back in turn was lies and smears from Sturgeon, her acolytes, & the UK media who she had aligned herself with.
The situation has still changed - it’s soon to be 11 years after 2014 & yes is polling ~50%. Real advocates of Independence adapt & move towards Independence as soon a there is a chance of getting it. Devolutionists dither, line there pockets, ask politely for referendums they know they won’t get, drum up false accusations against former leaders, stab real independence advocates in the back, waste everyones time, & have bugger all ambition or ideas.
Your point about Salmond being a gradualist is irrelevant - he was in another time, when gradualism helped get us a Scottish Parliament & helped establish the SNP as an electable party. Gradualism was suitable for when independence was previously supported by 20-30% of people. The purpose of gradualism has been fulfilled, anyone who is a gradualist in the SNP should fuck off & join labour.
Anon 914 -you really are trying to rewrite history. I’ll attack the snp but offer an olive branch. What a joke. Still if true his negotiations skills,should have recognised that someone on 2% votes cannot dictate. Lack of self awareness.
DeleteReality is the SNP are a rotten and corrupt devolution anti independence party whereas Alba are not.
ReplyDeleteIndependence is I believe what the squables for mikitting against acjiemajority of people want. But the party political system militates against that.
It is a rigged system, externally influenced with petty political squables further mikitating where we want tto be. Democracy does not work.
Even something like assisted dying,
ALBA seems to have lost any sense of direction other than try and damage the SNP. Independence is secondary to their hatred of former first ministers and some bloggers on here seem to know what the late Alex Salmond wanted to do sometime in the future. AS is gone and they need to move on. The reality is whatever their pipe dream it will NOT get one MSP voted in at Holyrood unless they do some deal with the SNP, Greens as to the regional vote. Think about it. Beyond 2030 the party purists will have no influence in Holyrood or anywhere else.
DeleteNot that I care but if they want to have some influence they need to attack the unionist parties first and foremost and stop the childlike mysoginist attacks on the former FM and others. As a SNP member I am willing to lend my vote on the regional list- not a fan of the Greens currently but ALBA is well below that and seemed destined to remain their by their actions including attacks on their own members. Who wants to join that club?
ALBA appears not to care about independence.
I'm sorry but Alba have consistently called for a Constitutional Convention, told people to vote SNP in 2021, didn't stand in the crucial Rutherglen and Hamilton West By-election, offered to work with Humza Yousaf to save his job as First Minister, pushed 'Scotland United' to an incredibly excessive extent for the General Election and believe that the 2026 election should be used as a cooperative push towards independence.
DeleteIf you want there to be some deal between Alba and the SNP it seems like it's the SNP standing in the way of that happening. Several olive branches and offers to work together have been offered by Alba, all slapped away or ridiculed.
"offered to work with Humza Yousaf to save his job as First Minister"
DeleteBut only days later they voted to bring down the whole SNP government, when in any sane world they would have abstained at worst. Weeks later they put up candidates against the SNP in the general election in *one third* of Scottish seats, and it was only through sheer luck that they didn't directly cause the installment of a unionist MP somewhere.
So to put it mildly, you're neglecting to mention some of the key facts.
'Reality is the SNP are a rotten and corrupt devolution anti independence party whereas Alba are not.'
DeleteIf you truly believe that "Alba are not" corrupt, then you simply have not been paying attention.
The reason ALBA did not stand in Rutherglen is they knew they would be beaten behind the b greens and other small parties. Still it seems anon at 946am your cry is no surrender but certainly your party will die if it does not change.
Delete"But only days later they voted to bring down the whole SNP government"
DeleteAfter they were essentially told to get stuffed? The state of the SNP Government at that moment in time wasn't one worth supporting.
"Weeks later they put up candidates against the SNP in the general election in *one third* of Scottish seats"
After literal months of pushing Scotland United to the extent they were being ridiculed by their own members because it was embarrassingly clear that the SNP weren't interested?
There's no point self-righteously talking about "olive branches" when you vote to bring down the government. Doing that, as opposed to abstaining, was an extreme step. It was an unforced error that caused immense reputational damage to Alba within the independence movement.
Delete"to the extent they were being ridiculed by their own members"
If it was being ridiculed, why not stop doing it? The sensible thing would have been to voluntarily sit out the general election, except in the two seats Alba were defending. They could have had the best of all worlds by pouring all their resources into those two seats and giving themselves a chance. Instead they ended up with the worst of all worlds, spreading their resources too thin while also splitting the pro-indy vote across much of Scotland.
Alba's strategy has been risible on every level since the 2021 Holyrood election. (When I myself voted for them.) They don't get any credit for these "olive branches" they've held out. SNP loyalists saw Scotland United as Salmond's poisoned chalice. They got nothing from their pivotal single vote in Holyrood, won of course by defection. And the stabbed-in-the-back narrative wrote itself when Ash did vote down Humza's government. James was far from the only one warning them against it.
DeleteThe result? No votes, no election wins, no love from the movement or the public.
It could have been run so much better than it was. Fine, I admit that Salmond's public image was irreparably damaged from Everyone Knows What, which put a low ceiling on Alba at the start. But every subsequent chance was squandered very badly. They show no signs of changing that now.
Mainly I just wanted to point out that people keep saying that it was Alba's intention from the beginning to attack the SNP but actually looking at their actions over the past 3 years that couldn't be further from the truth.
DeleteAlba simply wanted the SNP to reprioritise independence and were willing on several occupations to meet with the SNP to discuss the best way forward.
"people keep saying that it was Alba's intention from the beginning to attack the SNP"
DeleteBut it was. I pointed that out to you earlier. "Scotland United" was not a serious proposal, it was designed to be rejected and to give Alba a thin pretext to declare all-out war on the SNP, which was the intention from day one.
If you actually look at the things Alba said since day 1: What did they advocate for that unreasonable? It seemed to be rather generic stuff: Re-prioritise indy and work with the wider movement.
DeleteWhy would a Constitutional Convention following the 2021 election for example have been outlandish? Even now most agree that the movement as a whole needs to work together, logic dictates that would require getting in a room together.
"What did they advocate for that unreasonable?"
DeleteThey demanded Nicola Sturgeon's head, and said that a vote for the SNP was a vote for Jimmy Savile. If you can't understand why that wasn't interpreted as the hand of friendship, nothing I can say will help you.
James, a hypothetical question. With all that you've been through lately, would you vote Alba if there was an election tomorrow?
ReplyDeleteSo was Alex Salmond in the Holyrood election of 2021.
DeleteWhat changed?
My comment above made more sense when it was replying to a nasty one-liner that has since gone. You can take a guess. 😉
DeleteDouglas Fir: Alba members are required not to support other parties or candidates *where there is an Alba candidate actually running*, and contrary to the silly false claim in the anonymous comment I've just deleted, I stuck to that rule to the letter throughout my time as a member. I now find myself in an interesting position because I am no longer an Alba member - I checked the rules and expulsions take effect immediately, even where an appeal is pending. So I am now in a purgatory situation where I technically can no longer be bound by party rules, but some might argue that I should still follow them given that the Appeals Committee could theoretically reverse my expulsion and immediately restore my membership. So I have to be careful with the way I answer your question. If my membership is restored, I will of course vote Alba whenever there is an Alba candidate. But if my expulsion is upheld and made permanent, by that point the party would have demonstrably treated me like dirt, and I don't think anyone would realistically expect me to vote for them ever again, from the point of view of plain self-respect. The sheer *casualness* of the way I and others have been thrown out of the window is simply staggering. They say under some regimes life is cheap. In the Alba Party, the rights of membership are clearly very cheap indeed, and no-one can or should feel safe.
DeleteJames - you also have to bear in mind that the numbers of those who have left the Alba Party, either through resignation or stopping their subs, are considerably greater than those who have been expelled or suspended. Some of us were threatened in one way or another - with being expelled from a meeting for pressing a point, such as "where in the constitution does it say this?" We decided not to tolerate the kind of authoritarian and corrupt behaviour which seeks to pass constitutional amendments sight unseen by a conference (indeed some of us spoke out on this matter), but decides that competent constitutional amendments should not be seen by conference. The only effects of these competent constitutional amendments would have been:-
Delete1) to permit Office Bearers to have a say about the work of HQ staff (rather than be dictated by the party chair and line managed by the unelected and unelectable General Secretary)
2) to prevent the General Secretary from redirecting complaints to himself, instead of referring them on to the Disciplinary Committee
3) to ensure that the correct representation on the Conference Committee was adhered to, according to the party constitution, so that NEC members could not dominate.
Of course, other matters, such as the dominance of that committee by the party chair and the failure of that committee to elect a chair on an annual basis, were more difficult to deal with, because of space on the conference agenda!
I'll probably continue to vote SNP for now. In effect the SNP is a devolutionist party despite the fact that a large portion of its remaining members are not. I vote fot it as a block to the overt unionists.
ReplyDeletePro independence members of the SNP could still try an internal fight to regain the party for independence. Time to get organised !
The rest of us need to build the non party YES movement. A convention may prove to be a positive step forward.
In the future we will need an effective pro independence party if we are to succeed, that may be the SNP or it may be A.N. Other. The hopelessness of current party leadership groups has forced us into a multi front campaign - inside the SNP and outside it. Activists need to see this imperfect situation for what it is and get on with it either inside or outside !
It's not very motivational though is it: Vote for us, we might change in the future.
DeleteWhen the goal is to get the maximum amount of the Yes movement to vote a certain way I can understand why many won't feel that it's worth the effort to fill in a ballot paper.
Yeah most people don't think that way in the lead-up to an election. The masses typically want a reason to vote for something they think might improve their day-to-day lives. If independence isn't on the horizon or even being talked about by the SNP in the lead-up to the election it won't be given a consideration in how most people vote.
DeleteAlt Clut? ......Clot more like.
DeleteA drunken dotard
Delete@10:16. Correct. Elections are about the case each party puts forward for how they'll make people's lives better (and specifically which people, which is what makes the right the right). They're only a referendum when a party or cross-party coalition runs explicitly on that basis: a de facto referendum.
DeleteThe controlling, devolutionist wing of the SNP always wants to have their cake and eat it too. No substantive promises of real action on independence (we'll write another sharply-worded letter to the prime minister!) but nudging the membership to act like it's one in the hope to rally the indy vote around the re-election of their cosy do-nothing parliamentarians. "Don't split the Yes vote. A vote for anyone but the SNP is a vote for the union!" Etc., etc, we hear them every election.
No UK party is getting my vote. But will the SNP? I doubt it…
There's only so many times you can march people up a hill until they get tired of it.
DeleteRepeating every 5 years that we MUST vote a certain way to keep the dream alive and then nothing happens to turn that dream into a reality makes people feel like they been duped. After doing that several times is it any wonder why so many people are now angry, negative and even attacking the SNP?
There's a strong feeling like we've wasted 10 years with some of the best circumstances we could have wished for being squandered along the way and going into 2026 literally nothing has changed except this time people have had enough, and they need a lot more than just hope and belief because they're fresh out of that.
If Christina removes Karen Adam, she’ll put the average IQ of the parliament back in triple figures.
ReplyDeleteThat would very much depend on the IQ of the Tory candidate - do we know who that is yet? If Christina Hendry "removes Karen Adam", the replacement MSP will be a Tory.
DeleteGreat analysis once again, James.
DeleteOoh, let me praise you 🙏. Creepy
DeleteIf ALBA folds will the supporters chose labour, reform, tories, Lib Dem’s? All pro union if they don’t know.
ReplyDeleteYes, Jimbo, everybody's either with you or just a Brit Nat.
DeleteWhere's our indyref2, you diddy? Where's our de facto referendum? Where's the £620k the Yes movement contributed to the crowd fund?
All that can be found is the zip up your back.
Why join any of those Parties when they could join the SNP to help stall independence for another decade. Wonder what new opportunities will come along like Brexit & Boris Johnson they could help waste.
DeleteOr maybe even they could help the SNP with new ways of shooting the movement in the foot like willingly going to the Supreme Court to confirm that the UK Government has a permanent veto over another referendum and shrugging our shoulders afterwards.
Anon at 11.11. You should refrain from commenting about the Supreme Court case, as you are clearly clueless as to what it involved and why, at that time, it had to be raised.
DeleteWouldn't it have been significantly better had the Scottish Government pressed ahead with a referendum and forced the UK Government into taking the issue to the Supreme Court?
DeleteThe optics along of the UK Government going to court to stop Scottish democracy would have worked more in our favour. Whereas nothing was gained from the Scottish Government going to court except for taking the Section 30 route off the table (though strangely that doesn't seem to have changed the plan to keep asking for one anyway).
Precisely! @11:37
DeleteI was there that awful, freezing night in late 2022 when Nicola spoke at Lesley Riddoch's quickly gathered crowd at Holyrood to mark the ruling with something for the evening news to point the cameras at.
Nicola was all "Scotland's will" and the rest of it, but she had bungled this badly, and many of us knew it. She had appointed Dorothy Bain, after all, to make Scotgov's case for our right for a consultative referendum: a case the unionist Lord Advocate duly made with very little interest. And the sequence was quite wrong, exact as you said. We should have dared them. What were we doing taking the hazard in a hostile, foreign court when we had a political point to make: with the Scottish electorate!
I believed in Sturgeon up until that time. That's when it all came apart for me. When she promised a de facto referendum then subsequently quit, pushing her chosen boy as her successor, who in turn dropped her promise, that was it. Game Over. For our independence drive and for the SNP along with it.
Terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE mistake after mistake after mistake. She never wanted independence, that's the only reasonable conclusion. We were taken up the garden path and robbed.
Anon at 11.37. The U K govt would have waited until the last possible moment to go to court, then the BBC MSM narrative of an incompetent S G wasting millions of pounds on a hopeless endeavour would have gone into overdrive. The outcome of the court proceedings was never in any doubt. S G took control of the time fame, and the detail of the judgement will be of assistance if the SNP gets its arse in gear and progresses Indy. That’s a big if.
DeleteHow does any of that judgement prove useful? It was a massive, self-inflicted wound. It never even produced a spike for indy polling, let alone something we could use. The argument "how dare that London court say we cannae hold a ref" changed absolutely no one's minds. It looked like a mess because it was one.
DeleteThe right way to do it was to pass the bill and set a date for the referendum, expecting a response from the Tory government. Then, when they landed us in court, have Joanna Cherry defend our right, not a No-voting British unionist.
Isn't there a contradiction there? If the Scottish Government wanted control of the timing and knew that the outcome wasn't in any doubt... why didn't they have a plan for the immediate aftermath?
DeleteEven though I thought the whole thing was daft at the very least I would have expected them to be firing on all cylinders as soon as the judgement was in, but like other opportunities that have gone by in recent years that too was wasted.
Anon at 12.40. Go away and read up on exhausting domestic remedies. Then have a look at which court processes will be involved in enforcing Scotland’s right of self determination, then add two and two. Then go back and read the full decision. In the meantime, refrain from talking uninformed nonsense. No thanks needed. You’re welcome.
DeleteAnon at 12.41. They did have a plan. It was thwarted by the forced removal of N S, at the insistence of the U K govt, aided and abetted by no shortage of useful idiots.
DeleteNicola's Secret Plan—wait until you see the whites of their eyes—Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold… Hold… Hold… Hold…
DeleteHold…
Hold it, we're almost there now…
Hold…
They bungled it.
Ah I see we're in the conspiracy nonsense part of the conversation now!
DeleteIf Alba folds, I will either:
DeleteVote ISP, Sovereignty, Peter Bells party or one of the other real independence parties (SNP-Green are pretending they’re pro indy. No action on indy but saying you support it = devolutionist.).
Failing that, I will either not vote or consider voting SNP if I like their candidate (not many good ones left).
My lucky seat's been blessed with Alyn Smith and Toni Giugliano as SNP candidates, so I’m not hopeful. I'd love to defeat the execrable Alex Cole-Hamilton but frankly he's got it made so my constituency vote is worthless.
DeleteThe Lothian list… well… guess I'll have a good wee read.
Anon at 1.59, you've a liking for parties which have nae chance of winning a single election!
ReplyDelete