Robin McAlpine's latest piece presents the independence movement as having been "orphaned" by Alex Salmond's death, with a sudden realisation that "we're going to have to do it on our own", and with no sign of a new generation of Salmond-like charismatic leaders to guide us to the promised land. Others have expressed similar sentiments, but I must say I don't see it that way. If the orphaning occurred, it was several years ago. When Mr Salmond appeared on mainstream media in recent years, it was generally only to commentate on the fortunes of his former colleagues, in much the same way that Roy Hattersley used to pop up now and again to give his thoughts on New Labour. Mr Salmond was no longer really seen as an active participant in the political process, even though on paper that's exactly what he was.
It's possible that he could yet have become an active participant once again on more than just paper, and that was what all of us in Alba hoped for, but my own view was that was becoming less and less likely due to Alba's direction of travel - in other words its drift towards authoritarianism (with accompanying mini-purges), which made it more and more of a narrow sect centred around a few closely-knit families and friends, rather than the open, welcoming space for everyone on the radical end of the independence movement that it really needed to be to have any hope of creeping up to the level of support that might win it Holyrood list seats. Now is not the moment to be commenting in detail on the extent to which Mr Salmond's own decisions contributed to Alba going down that wrong path, although in fairness he may sometimes have been faced with impossible dilemmas given his heavy reliance on those who were keeping the party afloat financially.
So even without the tragic loss of Mr Salmond, it's highly likely that independence would have had to be won by a new generation of talent within the SNP's own ranks. (Unless of course John Swinney actually *does something* in his remaining time as leader, but we all know he won't.) Realistically, that probably means Kate Forbes and Stephen Flynn. The current ruling faction clearly want Flynn to be the next leader with Forbes in a lesser role, whereas I firmly believe it should be the other way around - Forbes as leader, Flynn as second-in-command. But either way they look like being the two key figures. Charisma-wise, how do they compare with Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon at a similar stage in their careers? I would actually say extremely well.
In my blogpost in the minutes after Mr Salmond's death was announced, I mentioned that he single-handedly converted me to the cause of independence with his persuasiveness in a 1992 episode of Election Call hosted by Nick Ross. That's absolutely true, but I have other memories of his TV performances from around that time which are much more mixed. When he stood for SNP leader in 1990, I was very, very young, but I was just about old enough to be taking a tentative interest in politics, and I remember him taking part in an informal debate with his opponent Margaret Ewing on Left, Right and Centre - Kirsty Wark's show, although Brian Taylor was the moderator for the debate. Taylor asked the two candidates how they differentiated themselves from each other, and Ms Ewing was extremely clear - she felt she had a stronger focus on social justice. But Mr Salmond kept speaking on her behalf, saying that Taylor was going to fail to identify any divisions because Ms Ewing actually agreed with him about absolutely everything. I found that tactic slightly irritating, and I bet I wasn't the only viewer who reacted like that.
Mr Salmond himself used to recount an incident from the late 80s, when he got annoyed with Robin Day for shutting him down on an episode of Question Time. Day asked him to watch the programme back and see if he felt the same way afterwards. He took that advice and phoned Day later to apologise, because he realised that he had gone too far and had been in danger of losing the audience, and that if anything Day had done him a massive favour by stopping him. So in a nutshell Mr Salmond was not the finished article in the late 80s and early 90s, and we tend to forget that. He was a good debater but he still had plenty left to learn, and plenty of rough edges to smooth off. Even by around 1995, when he was 40 years old and had started to rack up a few electoral breakthroughs, he wasn't yet being talked about as one of the finest politicians of his generation. He grew in stature over the late 90s, and even during the four years in the early noughties when he was no longer leader.
The pattern was similar for Nicola Sturgeon. Before Mr Salmond's dramatic comeback, she had been intending to stand in the 2004 leadership election, but no-one was in any doubt that she would have lost to Roseanna Cunningham. That seems incredible in retrospect, but the 34-year-old Sturgeon simply wasn't seen as the political titan she later became. I've said myself that I never rated the younger Ms Sturgeon - I thought she mimicked Mr Salmond's style of delivery but lacked his charisma. I felt she came across as an automaton.
Which is as much as to say that politics isn't tennis - ie. it's not necessarily a young person's sport, and there's no reason to assume thirtysomethings like Forbes and Flynn have yet reached their peak. They're already highly regarded and as they become older they could easily emerge as statesmen/stateswomen on a par with Salmond and Sturgeon. My question is not whether they're charismatic enough, but whether they're sufficiently committed to do what it takes to bring about independence, or whether other priorities will get in the way.
I had a long conversation with Alex Salmond during the 2023 SNP leadership election. Although that was eighteen months ago, I think that was the second-last time I spoke to him before he died - relations subsequently cooled after I started taking a stand against the Alba leadership's increasing authoritarianism. I don't think I'm revealing any state secrets in saying that he regarded Humza Yousaf as having no interest at all in delivering independence, and that he broadly sympathised with the strategy Ash Regan had set out (although he was at pains to point out that Ms Regan was genuinely not 'his' candidate and she was not doing his bidding - it was just a natural convergence of views). However, I knew Ms Regan had next to no chance of winning, so I asked Mr Salmond the only question that seemed to matter: "what about Kate Forbes?"
He paused for a moment, chuckled, and said "well, I think she does support independence". OK, that's a start, I said.
As far as Alba's own potential role is concerned, I and others have tried over the last year to democratise the party but hit a brick wall, which leaves power heavily concentrated in the leader. That means absolutely everything depends on who is elected to replace Mr Salmond. It shouldn't need to be as 'all or nothing' as that but unfortunately it is. If an authoritarian machine politician becomes leader, the party will be essentially finished. A reforming leader might just give it a fighting chance.
I broadly agree with you James. A focused and unified Indy movement will need an ensemble cast, each performing strongly in different areas, and perhaps appealing to different sections of the electorate, with a couple of figureheads leading the way. Whether that’s Flynn and Forbes remains to be seen, but they’re in pole position right now it would seem.
ReplyDeleteI do hope bridges can be mended and space can be made for some of the other talented performers that are around. Maybe Eck’s untimely passing can serve as a watershed and remind everyone that squabbling about secondary issues can wait until after Indy. Let bygones be bygones and get back on the same team everyone! At the moment we’re beating ourselves up and the unionists can just sit back and enjoy the show.
So you agree with Mike Small at Bella Caledonia then? No more heroes, he says. Aye, we've tried that the last few years and it's working wonders… for the Brits.
DeleteThe trouble with the "we should all make up and agree" rhetoric is it's ignorant of reality. If all we had to do was shake hands and shoulder to shoulder, behind a popular leadership that's committed to independence, then we would! But where is this leadership? Who's actually doing anything? Who's got a plan and wants to see it through?
The political reality is that the First Minister has all the levers of power: in government and in clout. That's where the action should be coming from. But instead he's twiddling his thumbs with English mayors, fooling no one.
Ach we can have a few walks doon the Royal Mile and argue amongst oorselves !
DeleteHe's awful.
DeleteI feel Robin is completely right though that far from Alex’s death meaning peace will fall on the independence movement, it now means it definitely won’t until those who feel he was done wrong feel some justice has been served.
ReplyDeleteWe'll never be able to close the book on the Salmond & Sturgeon era until that happens. There's a lot of pain and anger out there as it seems inconceivable that the awful stress and existential dread of the last seven years didn’t contribute to his death.
Correct. We need truth and reconciliation. Scotland, let alone the Yes movement, can't heal while justice remains undone.
DeleteWe need Independence. Grievances, real or imagined, need to be set aside. I proposed Kate Forbes on a double ticket days ago, but not with Stephen Flynn. He is part of the problem right now. Forbes and Cherry. Intellect, gravitas and real life experience. That could rescue the Indy movement, but only if Independence is reasserted as the primary purpose of the SNP. Anything else can wait.
DeleteSad to say but Jo Cherry has as much love in the SNP as Ken Clarke has in the Tories.
DeleteI rate Cherry much higher than Flynn, because Flynn has given every impression of being a Devolutionist just like Swinney. I see him as the crown prince of continuity. Continuity to oblivion.
But the party membership is still under Saint Nicola's spell and cares far too much for identity politics over independence, so they'll make the wrong choice unless something changes. Something like certain persons going to court and subsequently into prison.
Anon at 1.05. I am anon at 12.58. Thanks for engaging in constructive respectful dialogue. I agree about Flynn, hence my preference for Cherry. I think she is highly regarded in the wider Indy support, but the problem is current SNP leadership. I do not know if there is a way to reinstate the party to its 2014 constitution, but if anyone could plot such a course of action, I believe it would be Cherry. I live more in hope than expectation.
DeleteThe independence movement can't heal or move on when there's still a dark cloud lingering over it. We may not like that situation but it's sadly the reality we're living in.
DeleteReconciliation isn't possible at present no matter how much we might want it to. The court action Salmond was pursuing and hopefully will now continue was the method that could finally expose the full truth and justice being seen to be done.
As the saying goes 'the only way out is through'.
Anon at 1.38. We can do it. It needs people to see Independence as the primary purpose of the Indy movement. SNP, like it or not, is the biggest single entity within the movement. Forbes and Cherry, on joint ticket. If your priority is something else, you can get on with that.
DeleteWe can do it... as soon as the divisions and wounds are healed. That won't happen by magic and telling people just to support the SNP when they still hold the SNP to blame for those divisions isn't exactly a winning argument.
DeleteIt takes two sides for reconciliation to happen, just demanding one side to do something isn't how that works.
Even Joanna Cherry is currently saying that Alex Salmond was stabbed in the back by colleagues and that the legal action he was pursuing should continue so that he can be "completely vindicated".
DeleteShe wants to see justice for him and is clearly in the camp who believes that needs to happen in order for us all to move on.
If your priority is sorting our grievances, real or imagined, , you are not helping the Indy cause. Go away and do what you think needs done. Leave others to formulate strategy and progress Indy.
DeleteThat was the great thing about Alex Salmond: He was a fantastic multitasker.
DeleteHe was promoting Scotland & Scottish independence across the country and internationally (what he was doing in the hours before his passing), running a pro-independence political party formulating strategies to move the cause forward while also still pursuing active legal action to reveal the necessary answers that need to see the light of day to vindicate not only his name but heal the divisions in the wider Yes movement.
Robin McAlpine is correct when he says that far from Alex’s death meaning peace will fall on the independence movement, it now means it definitely won’t until those who feel he was done wrong feel some justice has been served.
It's not like the SNP are doing anything to progress independence at present so what's the harm in getting the answers that will allow the chapter to finally be closed on the whole affair and we can then begin the process of healing? The Yes movement is currently fractured whether we like it or not, certain things like the above need to happen to give any hope to bringing it back together again.
When I heard Alex Salmond had died, the second thought that went through my head—after the grief for everyone who loved him—was that in a way he'd died once before, when Sturgeon and her Alphabettes assassinated his character and rendered him a public hate figure. Politically, they neutralised him.
ReplyDeleteMy point is that ever since the allegations and the eager media's court of public opinion giving him a life sentence, we have been without him, in a way. And it shows in the slow disintegration of our movement.
We really do need another focal point, another hero, another leader. For now, though, we remain without one.
No more "heroes", please. We are where we are because we are on the treadmill of "the leader". When we can get a leadership of at least 6 or 8 acting together, collegiately, things might change. Salmond has taken us as far as the idea of "the leader" can take us. Sturgeon has shown us the consequences of over optimising on that model.
Delete" well, I THINK she does support independence" - hardly a ringing endorsement. I saw no evidence of a person desperate for Scotland to be free from the malevolent control of Westminster during the leadership election hustings. Now she could have been playing a politicians tactical long game. Just as she may have been doing by joining Sturgeon's gang as Deputy leader. Who knows.
ReplyDeleteI was completely dismayed when the SNP members voted for Yousaf because Sturgeon told them to do so. Far to many soft yesses in the SNP for my liking - or devolutionalists. I am still sitting on the fence re whether the SNP as a significant party needs to be done away with but I know the current leadership are just self serving politicians who will never deliver independence and they most definitely need cleared out. My personal jury is still out on the SNP membership. If Sturgeon's gang are not cleared out brace yourself for another 20 years of timid surrender by the SNP and loads more pictures of Swinney sucking up to Starmer and other Britnats. As Salmond said in his second last sentence on twitter to Swinney
" Part of becoming independent is about thinking independently, not subserviently."
Currently, the SNP is a subservient party that is an embarrassment to any independence movement and needs to change and change rapidly or needs to be destroyed.
I agree with your analysis, IfS, but I think you miss out one vital piece of the puzzle: the Scottish electorate's unwillingness to support any other pro-independence party.
DeleteAlba and the ISP, Eva Comrie and every other indy4indy, have all failed to as much as keep a deposit, let alone win a seat. The public just won't countenance any of them. Scunnered as they are, they're still loyal to the SNP, or simply do not vote.
The SNP brand, tarnished as it is by the Murrells descent to criminality, remains dominant among the Scottish people. The party as it is surely does not deserve it, but elections keep on proving otherwise. Even when they're free-falling under Swinney, they tower over the alternatives.
Like you, I don't vote SNP any more, as their present leadership are clearly British Devolutionists. So this isn't a veiled attempt at "both votes SNP." But it is the state we're in. The SNP still has a long way to fall before it's replaced by something else.
I suspect the only viable path forward is independence supporters taking it back. All the evidence strongly suggests it's still our only vehicle.
Sadly it's extremely unlikely the SNP will change between now and 2026. If it could be it would have happened before now.
DeleteSomething big would need to happen to generate the opportunity to either take the Party back or to replace it. At this point the only way I can see either happening would be the response to losing power in 2026.
You don’t get a much more subservient character than John Swinney. I wouldn’t be surprised if he asked Starmer if he fancied a day trip to Holyrood some time in the future.
Delete"Alba and the ISP,..., have (all) failed to as much as keep a deposit"
DeleteActually both have now retained deposits in council by-elections though admittedly on low turnouts.
Anon at 12.59pm - fair comment.
DeleteISP saved a deposit? Scotland is saved !
DeleteIt certainly won't be saved by you Lomax and your snidey one liners.
DeleteI’m about the same age as you James. I remember Roseanna Cunningham's tilt at the leadership, and I rated her quite highly, certainly more so than Nicola back then. I changed my mind the moment Salmond entered the race, though, as he was head and shoulders above them both.
ReplyDeleteI've only vague memories of politics in the early nineties. By 1997, though, I was as interested as I am now, and Salmond was already synonymous with the SNP and Scottish independence. I was still a bit too young to vote that year, but I was delighted that he and his party did so well. Then 1999 rolled around and I cast my first vote in Scotland's first parliament in centuries for the SNP. He was the best leader of the opposition as well as the best First Minister that Holyrood has ever seen (albeit back on the Mound). Besides for maybe Donald Dewar, Salmond dwarfed all of them.
There's no one like that now. Even before the true heights of his success, he was inarguably Scotland's biggest political beast. But you're quite right it took a lifetime for him to get there. His determination came long before his skill.
I met with Mr Salmond and Ms Sturgeon a few times. Both and I mean both support and supported Independence.
ReplyDeleteI joined the SNP back in the 1970's and didn't join because of any personality. I joined because of I believe that an Independent Scotland will benefit all of the people in Scotland (- excepting maybe the major landowners many who live elsewhere) Social Justice and democratic control were some of my drivers. I didn't need 2014 to convince me - good for those that found revelation at that time! It seems now those who are enemies of Scots independence wish to keep the enmity going. It may suit them and unionists but not those who are struggling to meet ends meet. The next Scottish Election we must push for over 50% pro independence.
I believed in Nicola too, until she completed her mission to ruin our whole movement. How could she have done what she did if she truly wanted Scottish independence?
DeleteLook at her actions:
* 2016's Brexit referendum result hands her the perfect circumstance—spelled out in the SNP's election winning manifesto!—to hold indyref2, but she just accepts weak Teresa May's tossed off "now is not the time"
* 2017 hands her party a hung parliament where the SNP's MPs hold the balance of power, perfect for forcing a second referendum from the government. Yet she does nothing.
* 2018 begins the trial by media of Alex Salmond, by a group of accusers all intimately linked to Sturgeon
* 2019 sees England vote for Boris freaking Johnson in a landslide. Scots are appalled. The hardest of hard Brexits is forced upon us. Lord-in-waiting Blackford eventually shuts up about "Scotland won't be forced against our will…" because we WERE!
* 2020 The Covid pandemic hands an unusually generous media spotlight to the First Minister who gets daily briefings on the BBC. She uses these to attack Alex Salmond and to insist that the allegations are all true, even when the high court finds him innocent of all of them.
* 2022 The "supreme" court in London rules against Scotland's right to hold a consultative referendum, full stop, completely blocking the "gold standard" path to Indyref2. Scotgov's case was very poorly made by Nicola's hand-picked team. She declares that the next election will be a de facto referendum on independence.
* 2023 She resigns as First Minister. She and her husband put their thumbs on the scale for Humza Yousaf to succeed her as leader. He ditches the commitment to a plebiscitary election, leaving Scottish independence halted entirely with no further plan.
In short: she destroyed Alex Salmond and handcuffed the independence movement. Why did she do that?
The SNP today just come across like they've given up.
DeleteUsually when a Party suffers the kind of defeat the SNP suffered in the General Election the red panic button gets pressed & the Party works quickly to self-reflect, learn lessons, implement reforms and bold new ideas to change the narrative and show that the Party might be down but they're going to come out swinging.
But instead of firing on all cylinders implementing new ideas and measures to turn the Parties fortunes around we've had literally next to nothing. A Party Conference which was the perfect opportunity to change the narrative announced nothing of any significance.
I don't get it. It's almost like they don't care anymore whether or not they lose power.
Swinney was selected to clean up the mess as a barely even glorified janitor. In that respect he’s the perfect man for the job. He has no vision and no ambition to do any more than maintain a steady course. He’s in it for his faction—anything it takes to block Kate—and his pension. Losing elections is just collateral damage for him, as the leadership’s hand picked fall guy.
DeleteBut you’re right of course. This makes no sense at all for the wider party. They must eject this lingering leadership for survival’s sake.
Anon @1.05pm - you say Nicola Sturgeon supports independence. Her actions say otherwise.
DeleteI do think there was never a brilliant time to pull the trigger during the brexit stuff, it was always a difficult period and to use brexit may have backfired too.
DeleteWhat I can't forgive her for is taking Scotland to the Supreme court without the gumption to immediately call a defacto referendum they were all collectively willing to go through with. The did not carry a centuries old cause carefully and I cannot forgive that.
Yes - the 2 comments above reinforce my view that there are folk out there whose main aim is enmity. Intentionally or by accident the result will benefit the unionists.
ReplyDeleteOr they're simply tired of being told to just keep the faith after over a decade and nothing being shown for it?
DeleteBoth the SNP and the wider Yes movement today are in a worse position than a decade ago. That can't be blamed on those who are tired at how often they were marched up a hill, seeing "Game On" front pages of The National and then nothing happening.
Anon at 1.57 pm I note that you do not say any of it is untrue just that you don’t like it being mentioned. Sounds like the old wheest for the SNP again. Sturgeon is a wrong un - the evidence is beyond doubt - and you want us to support the same people who were in charge for the last 10 years. Your name wouldn’t be Yousaf would it.
DeleteYou all have worthy points but we need to come together.
DeleteSNP,, Indy all won when people stood taller, were confident and made postive steps. Any animosity needs to be bleed out quickly so the rebuild can begin. We won't anger Scotland to independence. I dont' think it's the way. All the people I know who converted did so because they wanted better for their children rather than running from Tories or England.
Cobblers- I think you have came straight from the comments page of the Herald. Still my earlier comments ring true “… reinforce my view that there are folk out there whose main aim is enmity. Intentionally or by accident the result will benefit the unionists.”
Delete“Cobblers” doesn’t win arguments, Mr. Cobblers. The magic spell you’re looking for is “transphobe”
DeleteStrange individual- sexualising words. Cobblers is an expressive term.
DeleteAbracadabra! Hocus pocus! Shazam!
DeleteThe SNP finances probe and the Salmond affair needs to be done and dusted so we can all move on. That is a pre-requisite. All should be agitating for these to be brought to justice and finished.
ReplyDeleteIronically, Labour being in power in London and Edinburgh is when the SNP really took off. When Labour flounder, its the SNP who take the votes as the only feasibly alternative. The reverse of today. Goodwill for Labour is wafer thin and nowhere near as strong as the SNP had it 10 years ago. I believe their fall will be more dramatic than anything we've seen. It's important the SNP remain the alternative during this time.
Timing is everything. Get the dirty work done now on the corruption charges and Salmond. By the time this is all settling down, Labour will be be majorly struggling and the likes of Flynn and Forbes will be ready to take on the next cycle.
I think there is going to be some pain but there is scope for longer term gain.
Good point about Labour’s deep unpopularity and public skepticism. If we had a capable and enthusiastic champion for independence leading the SNP now, how things would be different! The time is ripe for vision and hope. Labour’s in a wretched state, as is Britain, and the case for independence is right there waiting to be made by those who can make it happen.
DeleteThat’s not regular Yessers like us, of course. It’s those on the podium, at the microphone, and in Scottish government. Do or die!
Agree with all this above. Weirdly I feel this has brought back some fire in the belly to take the fight to Labour again.
DeleteTo me, the current case for Scottish independence seems to be based on anything but Scottish independence, which isn't good at all.
DeleteThere’s work to be done, for sure, on currency and the border. That’s what a serious independence minded Scotgov would be devolving and debating. A citizen’s assembly would be my choice, with the full focus of the media as happened in Ireland when they debated abortion.
DeleteWhere we are right now—with the party of independence silent on the subject—is unnatural and unsustainable. Change and we will come.
Autocorrection: devolving = developing.
DeleteI feel sad but energised to push Scottish independence forward. What I dont know is where to send my energy.
ReplyDeleteAs much as I respected Salmond, I felt Alba had been tarnished as well as lifted by his reputation being deliberately sullied. Now he is gone, Alba could either have a refreshed lease of life as the fire to the SNP's feet or contine to wither into irrelevance.
McAskill is a good orator too and at least says what I believe. As does Ash Reagan. But the SNP has shown some contrition in their tributes to Alex that was needed and is the main party of independence. Is it time to rally around the SNP instead?
If the SNP can rid itself of the likes of Stewart McDonald and the other non-independence supporters in their ranks, that would have it dial down to a peep the point of the party, I'd like to give the SNP more of a chance.
The SNP didn't challenge the state by dialling back. It's seen as timid,, corrupt and lacking in ideas. It's time it got back on message.
If I was the SNP and truly believed in uniting for independence I would use Alex's passing as an opportunity to offer an olive branch to the wider movement.
DeleteMake gestures like restoring all previous mention of Alex Salmond's name and his contributions to the Parties history on the SNP Party website which were scrubbed years ago, acknowledge the mistakes of the past and offer an opportunity to come together (like that Constitutional Convention).
If a genuine offer is made to acknowledge Salmond's legacy and work together to progress the dream he sadly won't live to see many will listen. But it would need to be genuine.
Media performance was only one of Salmond’s many talents. Arguably his most significant talent was his mastery of strategy: including his support for devolution and gradualism, opposition to illegal wars, quiet cooperation with Goldie to keep his minority government afloat, the “Alex Salmond for first minister” ballot paper stunt (a complete masterstroke), to renaming the executive the “Scottish Government” (another masterstroke), his negotiations with David Cameron. This list could go on and on. The biggest blunder of his political life was handing over to Sturgeon. She matched his media performances but matched him in no other respect whatever. Crucially she did not know how to govern whereas Salmond president over the most successful government of the devolution era. There is simply no other Scottish politician in modern times who comes anywhere near matching Salmond’s all round skill and I’m very pessimistic about the prospects for independence without his strategical nous. I think his plan to get Alba in parliament and use it as leverage to advance new routes to independence would have worked. Now? I don’t know. I will remain an Alba member if Kenny MacAskill becomes leader because he is a decent man I respect. I won’t stay in a party led by McEleny, it would just be a waste of everyone’s time.
ReplyDelete"The biggest blunder of his political life was handing over to Sturgeon."
DeleteThe second biggest blunder was appointing McEleny as Gen Sec of the Alba party.
The third biggest blubder was appointing Ahmed Sheikh as chairwoman of the Alba party.
AnonymousOctober 15, 2024 at 2:52 PM
DeleteThe first two I agree with - Alec himself publicly stated the first and the 2nd is self-evident if you have followed along here and elsewhere. McEleny is a liability and should be given the heave.
The third point- sounds like your considered opinion, probably with a sound basis in experience.
From the outside looking in though I just don't see it.
Care to explain a bit for us?
Different anon here. Aren’t Tasmina and McEleny a political pair? The impression I’ve gotten from rumours flying around is that they both acted as gatekeepers to power in Alba and, in Tasmina’s case, access to Salmond. Don’t know how well they get along together, or who would stab the other’s back first, but let’s say you don’t cross either of them and remain in their party.
DeleteI’m sure both of them consider themselves Eck’s heir apparent. We shall see. It always helps when you’re the one who counts the votes.
Tasmina was always with Alex, they were both Directors of Slainte Media Ltd (company that produced the Alex Salmond Show & Scotland Speaks with Alex Salmond).
DeleteShe was even pictured standing next to him just hours before he passed. He clearly trusted her a great deal.
Oh he did, yes. The effects of that were catastrophic, but for whatever reason he did trust both her and McEleny, and foolishly placed enormous power in the hands of both.
DeleteAnonymousOctober 15, 2024 at 6:42 PM
DeleteThis is not a helpful explanation.
The effects of trusting TAS were catastrophic?
That is an assertion. An unsubstaitiated allegation. what were the se 'effects'? What was so 'catastrophic'?
It is publicly available knowledge that TAS rescued AS prom near bankrupcy by 'buying' 'half' of their (then collapsed) 'business' from him for tens of thousands.
If it had not been for that he could have been completely ruined by the Government Lawfare.
If you are going to post such incendiary _opinions_ with no justifacation whatsoever, that is little better than trolling.
If you have points to make, JUST MAKE THEM.
aLurker: No idea what you're getting so angry about, it's an open secret that Tas is part of The Problem, and that many people who left Alba would still be there if it hadn't been for her. Quiten down now.
DeleteAnonymousOctober 15, 2024 at 7:45 PM
DeleteMy reply certainly does not display anger.
You show yourself in a poor light, oh but you post as anon. I don't
"it's an open secret that Tas is part of The Problem"
Maybe it is, among those who have left Alba.
How are the rest of the world to know if they were never in Alba?
Anyone who would say "Quiten down now" like you did needs to examine their own attitude!
Your comment does not contain any useful information.
Maybe it will answer your question, Lurker, if I point out to you that if Anon is an Alba member, and if he did what you demand by dropping his anonymity and giving details, he would face the same disciplinary process as James. The Dictatorship of Tas is not a benevolent one.
DeleteAnonymous October 15, 2024 at 8:27 PM
DeleteThanks. That is a considered reply.
You err to assert that I "and if he did what you demand by dropping his anonymity".
I do not ask for that, and I do not expect that. I myself post pseudonymously, as you see, people should have a right to the privacy that they require.
I'm awa noo. Back tomoroow, maybe so no more replies from me! ;-)
Alex’s belief that Kate Forbes supports independence was made before she signed up to the British American Project late last year. That single act should be anathema to any true supporter of independence.
ReplyDeleteLike many comments on here, I’d throw my support behind Joanna Cherry. A true intellect, not tied inexorably to politics as a career, an unimpeachable commitment to independence, and a friend of Alex.
I think JC is finished with politics and now has a proper job.
DeleteCherry retained her “proper job” throughout her political life and can easily come back into politics. And Forbes is a pragmatic politician, who wisely wants to influence from the inside, not the outside.
DeleteIf her reaction in the past couple of days are anything to go by I feel like Cherry will be on the frontlines in the effort to get justice for Salmond.
DeleteI'll support anyone who pushes self government for Scotland. Cherry seems more active in the media than Forbes. I don't really watch the parliament and don't have twitter. Maybe she's in things more on there but if i'm honest, I don't have much of a clue what Forbes is like as an orator.. unlike Flynn for example.
DeleteAnyway, we're convalescing towards them. They have my support.
Cherry is not an MP anymore- a punter like the rest of us. Forbes holds a government position. Hope that improves your knowledge.
DeleteMaybe Cherry will move to ALBA and give all of us as SNP supporters a break. To think she supported Regan during the snp leadership campaign would suggest their was a plot to overthrow but they got found out in the nick of time.
DeleteI find Forbes the most impressive. Some of her pieces at the National on her native Highlands are among the best writing I’ve seen for independence. She’s a complex character with a hinterland, wiser than her years. The fact she’s been schooled around the world and been to Washington too much for the Wings crowd doesn’t put me off her in the least.
DeleteQuite what she’s doing in Swinney’s cabinet, I don’t know. Obviously not much. Biding her time perhaps, and neutralising the threat to her from the Continuity Faction trying to ostracise her as an outsider come the next leadership contest.
4.25
DeleteErm..no really. Kind of knew that already.. what point are you trying to make? Weird post
The implication is that an ordinary party member is at greater liberty to say what they like than a cabinet member.
DeleteAnon at 4.29pm - " plot to overthrow " overthrow who exactly - there wisnae a leader to overthrow ya numpty.
Delete" they got found out in the nick of time" who found out what exactly. More pish from a numpty.
If it is it had no bearing on the point about oratory skills. Salmons was the FM of Scotland as was never off the TV showing his speaking skills. As was Cherry when a front bench SNP MP.
Delete"Hope that improved your knowledge". At least if you're going to be snide, have an arguable point. Even with one, it's unnecessary.
Just when I thought that Alba couldn't become more irrelevant after both their MPs got very sacked...
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't write off Alba just yet. If they put Ash Regan in charge and if she makes no more errors, who knows?
DeleteThose are two very shoogly ifs!
DeleteCherry kept her under control during her attempt to take over the independence movement.
DeleteI feel like there has been a wee turning point here that should not go unused. By no means on the road to recovery but opening of a door, quite a few people genuinely appreciative of how this man made Scotland walk a bit taller - and want the like again.
ReplyDeleteNeeds to go beyond words though. A few minor gestures (like restoring Salmond's legacy on the SNP Party website they previously scrubbed) would be nice to see.
DeleteClearly independence isn’t happening. The majority of the country don’t want it.
ReplyDeleteTime to accept it’s over and move on.
The latest poll from PollAndBangWe:
DeleteShould Scotland be an independent country?
Yes 57%
No 43%
Wow. That's biiiiiiig.
DeleteI have to admit the PABW poll is deeply worrying to me as a lifelong unionist.
DeleteSome people maybe haven’t heard of PollAndBangWe as they’re a fairly new polling company. However they’re increasingly getting a good reputation, and their polls are considered pretty accurate.
DeleteRecent polls from them have consistently put Yes ahead, but this is the biggest lead to date.
Very encouraging, let’s hope for more of the same in future polls.
Desperate stuff from Desperate Dan at 4.57pm. It's time for you to accept you are wasting your time posting the same words day after day.
DeleteIFS,
DeleteIn the words of the late great Roy Orbison, It’s Over - For Blighty! I'm gutted!
Douglas Alexander, Labour Trade Minister and pal of John Swinney is asked about trading with Saudi Arabia and human rights. He says he is a champion of human rights as is Starmer the human rights lawyer.
ReplyDeleteNot sure whose human rights Alexander/Starmer are championing but it certainly is not Scots or Palestinians. Alexander a true House Jock collaborator.
Seeing Alexander back as a minister in a U.K. Gov makes you feel as we have gone back in time to 15 years ago. 10 wasted years since the referendum in 2014. The people who supported Sturgeon and her gang are to blame for the 10 wasted years and now they want everybody to sign up to at least another 10 wasted years supporting the same people who betrayed us.
Infamy! They've got it infamy !
DeleteNo-one of towering presence and charisma? I fail to comprehend why people underestimate the power of Celine Gottwald.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree, Simeon. I can only assume that people are envious if Celine Gottwald's skill, talents and charisma.
DeleteI have no idea if Flynn supports independence. I actually have no idea if Flynn has any principles or beliefs at all apart from a strong belief in Stephen Flynn and things which further the interests of Stephen Flynn.
ReplyDeleteI have concerns too over Andrew. I have no idea if he knows anything about anything and as a result I worry too. I do known he talks out his backside at times and does a fair edition of Yankee Doodle dandy!
DeleteFlynn is filling Iain Blackford's boots, metaphorically at least. Some charisma in the passing London limelight, a lot of wind, but no action whatsoever to back it up. His actions betray another Devolutionist, and therefore a Brit.
DeleteAndrew doesn't know Stephen Flynn from Adam.
DeleteKate Forbes lacks warmth or humour.
ReplyDeleteAnd….?
DeleteShe lacks personality.
DeleteShe lacks the personality factor.
DeleteI think you mean she lacks "swagger" and, dare I say it for you, "balls."
DeleteWomen have personality too. They just show it differently. Unless they're aping Salmond, of course, like a certain former leader did.
The SNP is now just an MI6 Front. Filled with Quislings and other anti Scottish Wokes. Do any of them support Indy any longer or did they even support it in the first place. i have my doubts. Sic parcel of Quislings in a Nation.
ReplyDeleteIs that you Reverend?
DeleteI used to visit MFI and B&Q in BATH
DeleteTell it to the voters. They're still the only pro-independence that wins any votes.
DeleteSNP post 2015-2020 was the biggest threat to UK territorial integrity.
DeleteThe idea they didn't do anything to counter that is just stupid.
Alba members can't escape the fact that Alex spent the 2021 Scottish election campaign asking the people of Scotland to elect Nicola Sturgeon as the First Minister of Scotland and the SNP as the governing party, albeit a minority one.
ReplyDeleteHad Alex really believed Nicola and the SNP leaders had tried to frame him for serious sexual assaults, as many here are asserting, then that would have made Alex an utterly unprincipled hypocrite, something I and the vast majority of supporters of Scottish independence do not accept.
They provided an alternative to her for ordinary Scots at the ballot box.
DeletePlease do not bring verifiable evidence into the A S conspiracy camp. They do not like it and will be very upset. They much prefer making things up and reading the posts on WOS, which are increasingly bizarre and unhinged.
DeleteBy asking them to vote SNP1?
DeleteAnon at 8.06 it's a pity that ordinary Scots thought otherwise.
DeleteSince we're listing verifiable evidence:
DeleteQ: Did the Court of Session rule that the Scottish Government’s investigation into Alex Salmond was "unlawful" and "tainted by bias"?
A: Yes.
Q: Was anyone held accountable?
A: No.
Q: Was confidential information from that investigation leaked by someone in the Scottish Government to the Daily Record?
A: Yes.
Q: Was anyone held accountable?
A: No.
Q: Is there currently active legal action where Salmond accuses Leslie Evans and Nicola Sturgeon of misfeasance, bad faith, and acting beyond their powers, with the intention of harming him?
A: Yes.
Q: Should that legal action continue now following Alex Salmond's passing?
A: Absolutely, unless you're afraid of what that might reveal?
None of that comes close to countering my point.
DeleteIn fact, if Alex accepted that the Supreme Court judgement provided evidence he had been, in some way, "framed", he would surely have been even more determined to have nothing to do with the Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP leadership.
Unless, of course, he was mature enough to put the cause of Scottish independence ahead of his own concerns. Did you consider that possibility?
DeleteHi
DeleteSalmond still wanted SNP to win to take forward independence. He was a realist that Alba's position was to pressure it on the independence issue. The alternative was a unionist govt. I don't think your point here is as clear cut as you think it is.
Clearly, asking the people of Scotland to elect as First Minister a person he believed to be a liar and an active criminal would be a vile betrayal of the people of Scotland and the cause of Scottish independence.
DeleteI hope you're not suggesting that Alex was such a person.
ANON AT 1046
Delete"Salmond still wanted SNP to win to take forward independence".
Exactly my point. Alex knew that Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP had taken support for Scottish independence to its highest ever level in the second half of 2020 with no less than 20 consecutive major opinion polls between May 2020 and February 2021 showing Yes ahead of No.
I disagreed with Alex that deliberately undermining that support with the formation of alba was beneficial to the movement but the idea that Alex was prepared to ask the people of Scotland, the very people we seek to benefit from independence, to elect someone he believed to be a lying criminal as First Minister is ridiculous to the point of being surreal.
Stewart Dredge putting forward the fact that Salmond was big enough and forgiving enough by holding out the olive branch to the SNP on multiple occasions is evidence, (yes that's right the numpty thinks it is evidence), that there was no plot orchestrated by Sturgeon and her husband to send Salmond to jail on fake allegations is just ridiculous. It was only evidence that Salmond put independence before everything else.
DeleteThe evidence is there in the papers of the Parliamentary Inquiry and all of Swinney's redactions. An Inquiry in to the actions of Sturgeon, her government and her special advisers. Strangely enough no special adviser was ever interviewed. But nearly every one who gave evidence in person other than Salmond had to subsequently ' revise their evidence' in writing and be called back to the committee a second time. Murrell said he was not in his house at the time Salmond and his two colleagues called to speak to Sturgeon and Lloyd. He then had to admit he lied and say he was there. Why did he lie? Lloyd despite being a special adviser and in attendance at this crucial meeting was never interviewed.
Even now they are spending public funds on lawyer fees resisting the information commissioner's decision in courts. Bad faith actors and multiple lies galore.
Just how much public money has Sturgeon and Swinney wasted on this whole criminal affair.
This is the SNP that wiped Salmond from their history and had Sturgeon in charge of the 2014 referendum - Soviet style. They tried to turn Salmond in to a ghost. It was nauseating listening to Swinney talking about Salmond on various TVs programmes knowing what they did to him.
Sturgeon, Evans, Lloyd and Swinney even lied to their own solicitors when preparing for the Court of Session judicial review. They even tried to keep documents from the judge. They were forced to throw in the towel before the case got fully underway because their solicitors told them they would no longer represent them. Their own solicitors did not want to be associated with them as they lied to them and the judge.
Just what do people not understand about a Court of Session judge saying it was:
UNLAWFUL, UNFAIR, AND TAINTED BY APPARENT BIAS.
Do you think that all the actions they took to result in such a decision by the judge was all just accidental? It wasn't and that's why the judge allocated the maximum expenses to Salmond.
It was an abuse of power and a misuse of public funds.
Come, come, come and make eyes at me down at the old Bull and Bush. Wotcha me old matey. Sing along now, Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner that I hide behind the IFS moniker.
DeleteGo on, me old Cockney mucker. Use the word 'numpty' in your response. That'll convince folks you're a true tartan Jockie!
DeleteAnon at 11.48pm - maybe it's because you are a clown 🤡🤡 you hide as an anon. I note as usual with you clowns you have nothing to say on the facts.
DeleteIsn’t hiding behind Independence for Scotland anonymous too? Can you not think that deeply?
DeleteAnon at 9.30. This has all been explained to Idiot for Scotland on a number of occasions. I think he is too stupid to get the jist of what he is being told.
DeleteDredge, nothing surreal about it. Nothing you've said disproves the reality of the situation a new indy party faced, Sturgeon's leadership status or the tactics employed to get Salmond and Alba into the Parliament to make the case.
DeleteAnon clowns 🤡🤡 at 9.30 and 9.43am know fine well what I mean and it has been explained many many times by me and others but they choose to troll as the lowlifes they are. As ever they have nothing worthwhile to say.
DeleteAnon at 8.59. You appear to struggle with the distinction between civil and criminal law. And you still don’t answer the basic question. Why would A S endorse the SNP and N S? Your suggestion is preposterous and I suspect you know that. In any event I am not indulging you at this very sad time.
ReplyDeleteMaybe since we don't have a Presidential style election system? We don't vote to elect the First Minister, we vote to elect our local members of the Scottish Parliament. Whoever is leading the SNP at any given time can easily be replaced.
DeleteI am not sure if your final sentence is serious? The last two leaders of the SNP/Govt were selected behind closed doors and the system manipulated to ensure they got appointed.
DeleteThe Scottish Parliament decides who the First Minister is.
DeleteThey rubber stamp. They don’t decide. Your naivete is astonishing.
DeleteThey vote - we vote them in.
DeleteSo much debate about independence and so little thought or dialogue about how an independent Scotland would be better! The Scottish Enlightenment was largely the product of Great Britain and Empire. A new thirst for independence will only arise from a devolved administration proving it can run things better than Westminster. Unfortunately, the reverse has often been the case as it obsesses with independence while neglecting government.
ReplyDeleteYou think the current SNP administration obsesses over Indy? Until about four years ago the SNP govt was an efficient competent administration, with a wealth of independent evidence to that effect. The current administration has been hijacked by entryists, agenda driven minority groups, and wilfully malevolent unionist forces. We are seeing the consequences.
DeleteClassic gaslighting attempt by anon at 9.22am. Look across the sea to Norway and see how much better it could be - a Trillion pound wealth fund. Pathetic Britnat.
DeleteAnon@9:22, you are 100% correct, well said.
DeleteIFS, you, like other Nats, don’t like to hear or read the truth. You live in complete denial. There is no case for independence, never has been and never will. Thankfully numpties like you remain in a minority.
KC at 11.16am replying to yourself is pretty pathetic.
DeleteIFS, 🤣🤣🤣 Sorry to disappoint, but anon@9:22 ain’t me.
DeleteAye right Desperate Dan at 11.41am I should believe the Britnat who has continually lied on SGP since he first appeared posing as multiple independence supporters.
DeleteIFS gets so much wrong.
DeleteAnon at 4.29pm - like what? Let me learn from your great wisdom and knowledge oh great one.
DeleteIf you make accusations you should provide proof
ReplyDeleteSo you should Jimbo.
DeleteI remember during the independence referendum campaign Humza, who was our MSP at the time, coming out canvassing with us locally. He would go into folks houses and be talking to them about independence - he was passionate about it and good at talking about - he was holding the rest of us up. I think it’s unfair to claim he has no interest in independence - I think Salmond has gotten it wrong there. With regards to the future I think a Flynn/Forbes partnership is the way forward - Flynn is charismatic and a wee bit cocky - I think he can talk to the urban centre left voters and take them on like Sturgeon was able to do while Forbes is doing and saying some of the things I want to see happen for the Highlands and Islands - she can bring those voters back but you need Flynn to try and win back the younger voters who believe the party has ditched them and have gone towards the Greens.
ReplyDelete