Just a quick note to let you know I have a new analysis piece on The National's website, about how the SNP, the Greens and Alba stand in the opinion polls as the general election campaign gets underway. You can read it HERE.
Just a quick note to let you know I have a new analysis piece on The National's website, about how the SNP, the Greens and Alba stand in the opinion polls as the general election campaign gets underway. You can read it HERE.
We must Unite for Independence with the SNP. Only the SNP can do this. Other parties are a WASTED VOTE.
ReplyDeleteArrogance personified - who are you anon to say someone has wasted their vote. Similar arrogant types like you once said that about the SNP - they were Labour.
DeleteThese comments are wrong. It is fact that anything other than a vote for SNP is a wasted vote. A wasted vote is one that does not make a difference.
DeleteAnon at 8.30am says " it is fact......." that is not a fact that is your opinion. If you don't know the difference you are a right numpty.
DeleteAn argument could be made that a vote for the SNP is a wasted vote as they have done nothing for independence in the last 10 years.
No point arguing with IFS, he knows best!
DeleteI don't think it's IFS he's replying to. You, on the other hand, seem a bit obsessed with him - a bit of a man crush?😍
DeleteI know that many people have reservations about the SNP but now is not the time to focus on those.
ReplyDeleteNow is not the time… that rings a bell, Teresa.
DeleteThe magic words that halt the SNP in its tracks for eternity.
Encouraging to hear Nicola Sturgeon say she plans to put her shoulder to the wheel in the election.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 8.30pm - I would have thought that since she passed her driving test she would know you can use the steering wheel by now.
DeleteShe's more likely to be throwing Peter under the wheel.
DeleteUnder the wheel of the motorhome? Got to get it back from the polis first. Perhaps Murray Foote can go begging to get it back. After all some SNP numpty claimed it was bought for campaigning ( but it was kept a secret from everyone in the SNP- strange that ).
DeleteThat's the best news Labour and the Tories have had in months, will she be contributing 600K from her "personal" funds, should be useful to have an embezzler on the campaign trail, why not put her in charge of party finances or fund raising?
DeleteJerry what about the Tories and their dodgy Covid contracts amounting to billions? Or even the Brexit boat contract for millions that didnae have any boats and nothing happened other than taxpayers money was wasted for nothing other than a Tory enriching themselves. Will a Lady Mone campaign for the Tories in Scotland😂.
DeleteVote strategically: the SNP may not be your number 1 party but its the only party that can keep Labour or Conservatives out of a seat.
ReplyDeleteAfter all those years of poor Govt,we might just want someone else to sort it out
DeleteIndependence- who is the best bet for defeating the Brexit parties? Only 1 correct answer.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, John Swinney is perfectly capable of making Keir Starmer look interesting.
ReplyDeleteI forecast the lowest ever TV ratings for leader debates. Sunak/Starmer/Swinney/Davey - who needs sleeping pills. I would watch the Eurovision Song Contest before watching this lot.
ReplyDelete…if the leaders’ debates even happen.
DeleteIf you wanted Kate Forbes to be leader any time soon, it's bad news.
ReplyDeleteEven if the SNP get wiped out, Swinney won't take the blame as he's only just taken over. If the election had been in December he'd be much more responsible. As-is he's probably baked in as the leader through the Holyrood elections now.
I think it's premature to say that. You can't really assess the psychological impact of a terrible result until it's happened.
DeleteOr the anxiousness of the men in grey kilts.
DeleteSwinney never chose to quit last time, either. He was given the bum's rush.
Ah James it seems some nasty SNP numpty trolls have followed you on to the National btl. These are the same sort who are always bleating about unity and how we must vote SNP then come out with these nasty personal comments about you.
ReplyDeleteAll the division in the independence movement has come directly from Sturgeon's gang and their numpty supporters.
Wrong. Nicola Sturgeon has recently stated she thinks there is too much toxicity in Scottish politics. She is against it.
DeleteI suppose the independence movement will support Alba instead. 😂
DeleteI shall never vote for Sturgeon IFS.
DeleteSturgeon created all the toxicity and the division within the yes movement. Sturgeon has a big brass neck saying she is against it.
DeleteIFS - who do we vote for to achieve independence?
DeleteIfs doesn’t care about independence. Only to attack Nicola Sturgeon. Ifs are you from Bath? Quack
DeleteI have asked IFS many times for his views on his personal way forward on achieving independence and have yet to have any form of response. We only ever hear his negative undermining sniping views to everything no positive approach so my only conclusion is that he is indeed a unionist
DeleteWhat a bunch of lying SNP trolls. IFS has regularly posted that the SNP should have called a de facto Holyrood referendum.
DeleteCodswallop…… IFS is all negativity …… doesn’t want Scottish independence at all!
DeleteToo true ……. fed up of all those IFS unionist trolls trying to undermine the independence movement
DeleteAnon at 11.52pm - you are a lying lowlife anonymous troll - that is my conclusion as to what you are. How does anyone know what you have asked me and how often. There is a response for you.
DeleteThe mad duck troll at 11.38pm - seek help. It is not normal to self ID as a duck. Not even in the Greens is it normal - well I think that is probably the case but with Maggie Chapman you never know. Do you change in to a swan at midnight or something. Seek help.
Anon at 10.11pm - Sturgeon's legacy is right there in you asking that question.
My reply to the same anon troll kidding on he is multiple trolls at 12.14am and 12.24am - you are a real tosser and a lowlife.
DeleteWhy "two decades"? What magically happens in 2042?
DeleteNicola shafted us, I quite agree. I don't, however, agree on the timescale. Starmer's appalling record in government will come soon enough, we shall have the wind in our sails once Labour has failed Scotland.
Then the question is: will the SNP be ready to use it for a real push to independence? Have they a leader who's got what it takes to break the rules and make new ones?
The days of the SNP crying wolf in every election since Sturgeon took over about delivering independence is over, thank god no one with an ounce of hence will believe the creepy SNP on delivery everything except for their MPs. There is five in this household who will not vote SNP and I hope and pray that the SNP gets wiped out on the map Scotland on 04.06.24 and for good.
ReplyDeleteHear hear! It's time for change. It's time for Labour. It's time for the most impressive political leader of his generation. It's time for Sir Keir Starmer.
DeleteScotland is coming home!
Ok Mr Ross
DeleteDid you type that by nutting your keyboard with your forehead?
DeleteJust don’t understand how getting the SNP wiped out in Scotland will actively promote the Scottish independence movement. No matter what you think of the party and its admittedly incredibly poor progress to achieving that goal, zero SNP MPs at Westminster will set the movement back generations. There can be no plus side to that result for us surely.
Delete"Set the movement back"? I think we'd all like to have seen some actual movement on progressing independence in the last ten years. Sending a bunch of troughers down to London doesn't seem to have made much difference.
DeleteThings have remained pretty much stagnant for the past decade (if anything we're in a worse position now than 10 years ago).
DeleteAt what point do we say "enough is enough", I don't want us to still be in exactly same position in 2034. The SNP receiving a big wakeup call now could motivate them to reform and come back stronger.
Sometimes you've got to be cruel to be kind.
DeleteTime to kick the Tories and SNP out. Sick of the both of them.
ReplyDeleteYou cannot kick the SNP out of government in a UK General Election.
DeleteAlba for independence
ReplyDeleteSNP for fake yes nawbags
SNP will never deliver Independence.
DeleteAnd Alba will ? Oh ma sides !
DeleteTime for change for Scotland and an end to Tory rule. Only Labour is big enough and strong enough to do that in Scotland. Things can only get better.
ReplyDeleteThe last time Labour said things can only get better Blair started an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands. Some legacy.
DeleteLabour are pro Brexit anti Palestine anti Scots, Welsh and Irish. Pro Tory welfare policies and privatise the nhs. Labour and tories are united in doing down the trades unions and civil liberties
DeleteIn other words: Labour are the independence movement's secret ally. They're so shite, they will make the case for us.
DeleteTime for change for Scotland and an end to Tory rule. Only Labour is big enough and strong enough to do that in Scotland. Things can only get better.
DeleteIn Scotland we've voted against the Tories for seventy years but for some reason we keep getting Tory rule anyway. Why do you think that is?
Solidarity with the workers right across the UK.
ReplyDeleteClose down Scottish industry and move it south. Solidarity, my erase.
DeleteSolidarity with royals right across Blighty!
DeleteSir Keir Flag Shagger looking presidential in his West Wing. I have little doubt he will become PM, regardless of the result in Scotland but I have severe misgivings about where Labour is going (has gone).
ReplyDeleteAlso, why is Sunak going now? If inflation were to fall further, fuel prices go down, interest rates go down and growth go up then surely autumn would be a better time for him?What absolute disaster is awaiting the incoming government?
I heard Lesley Riddoch claim on her podcast that they've run the numbers and found they don't have the funds for a tax-cutting, pre-election budget. Things are looking gloomy. Might as well just go in the midst of the football.
DeleteJames ... Can't read the article in the National if you're not a subscriber. Will it be in Thursday's printed edition? John A.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I've only just seen your question. Yes, it's on Page 5, but it might be a bit late to find one still on sale!
DeleteIf scotland doesn't give the SNP a majority of seats, that's it for our lifetimes.
ReplyDeleteYou did live through 2015, right?
DeleteAnd this is the type of obnoxious individual who wants us to vote SNP. No wonder the SNP is going down in the polls but independence is still at 50%. Insulting people is not normally a good tactic to get them to vote the way you want seems obvious but maybe you are not too bright.
ReplyDeleteExpect a low turnout in Scotland. I have no interest in whether its red or blue Tories in WM. I consider myself a spectator. It was interesting when we thought the SNP mps could rattle a few cages. But they have been corrupted, and as much use as a plastic fireguard.
ReplyDeleteSo I don't have anything to vote for. As saving the SNP is not in Scotland's long term interest.
We need to move on, as painfull as it is.
Aye. My abstention is a boycott of the election. I refuse WM, as I refuse this "union" which denies us our free choice to quit.
DeleteThe SNP could get anywhere from 5 to 57 seats.
ReplyDeleteAnd it’s up to them, with Swinney and Forbes able to make it the latter. The utterly stupid "Make Scotland Tory Free" is more likely to make it 5.
Would making it a de facto referendum give them 57 seats? Perhaps. But I’d say they only really need to give less than a week’s notice of that.
OK. Holyrood election 6th May 2011 – and the SNP got an overall majority. But on the 1st May it was in a leaders’ debate that Salmond pledged he would hold an independence referendum in the second half of the parliament if he won the election on Thursday. Just 5 days before the election, after weeks of refusing to name a date. Some (like me) would say it was what made all the difference.
https://archive.is/Leanu (Daily Record)
So by that yardstick, Swinney could do similar on the 29th June. Which gives him 5 weeks to get his ducks in a row for that.
Thankfully I won't be holding my breath for Swinney to do that in the next five weeks.
DeleteJohn Swinney takes at least 10 weeks of gentle deliberation before he makes any decision. Even then, he usually gets it wrong.
DeleteHe has to. Otherwise the SNP depart Westminster but without Independence, and there will be 41 gloating Labour MPs.
DeleteIf he does go flat out for Indy and never mind all the "progressive" garbage, nor "Make stupid Scotland who cares Tory Free", I might even drop them a tenner as a non-member. Otherwise they get nothing, nada, zip, zilch, rien pas de tout Rodders. Probably not even my vote.
My message to the SNP is - shape up, or ship out.
The comments criticising Swinney are wrong. Swinney has much experience and hence will select the optimal strategy.
DeleteAnon at 8.24am - Sturgeon had a bucket load of experience but she delivered no referendum despite promising it year after year. She did deliver crap policies, divided the yes movement and embroiled the SNP in scandal. Oh and got Murray Foote, the Britnat architect of the infamous Vow and ex Daily Record editor the job as Chief Exec of the SNP. Was that an optimal strategy?
DeleteSo you just allowing the britnats to win. I’m sure you will feel some sort of perverted satisfaction.
DeleteSwinney already told us not to dwell on "mechanisms." No chance of a push from him. He's a devolutionist and doesn't want to upset the merry devo ship.
DeleteAnon at 1.12pm do you have some sort of perverted satisfaction that the architect of the VOW, Murray Foote, which helped scupper independence in 2014 is now in charge of the SNP?
DeleteA dystopian tale of two "special" military operations.
ReplyDeleteThe Russian one in Ukraine.
The USA one in Palestine.
Which is more evil? Or does it really matter which is worse?
Israel's is worse.
DeleteIndependence appears to be at fewer than that these days.
ReplyDeleteIf the "red tories" manage to win here it just goes to show even the most reviled can mount a comeback someday.
ReplyDeleteBodes well for SNP 2.0 or 3.0.
It is 10 years away though. Not 2026.
Sturgeon had SNP seen as corrupt and focused on lame policies. Maybe Swinney can change that. Struggle with these arrests and getting obsessed about culture wars. What a sorry state for a national movement to get itself into. They had it in their hands, the mo, and got lost.
You can press a button and the mo appears. Needs built up
If they hang on, it will be remarkable
These comments about Nicola Sturgeon are wrong.
DeleteHer and her husband have been arrested! I liked her but her rep is in the sewer
DeleteFrom Leslie Riddoch's article in the National:
ReplyDelete" Stephen Flynn was on Radio Scotland last night making no mention of independence until challenged by interviewer Martin Geissler.
The Aberdeen South MP said this election would be all about trust – which party do Scots trust most to push for more UK spending on renewables, closer links to the EU, more money invested in health? Asked about Yousaf’s pledge that the first line of their manifesto would read, “A vote for the SNP is a vote for independence”, Flynn replied that “no manifesto is determined by its first sentence”."
"trust", "trust"? "Fecking "trust"?
That crap won't get my vote; Flynn should be sacked.
FLYNN WAS ELECTED FOR INDEPENDENCE but he settled in, not up.
To give Flynn his due he has been an excellent leader at Westminster with many questions at PMQs that make the news.
DeleteHe has shown great loyalty to John Swinney at a difficult time. He is a superb future leader candidate potential.
The MP in east ren, Karen Oswald had no mention of independence either.
DeleteI like Flynn by the way. He's doing hid best.
Flynn says "no manifesto is determined by its first sentence" and that is correct unless, of course, it is the only sentence in the manifesto in which case it would be a de facto referendum for independence. You know the referendum the SNP promised.
DeleteSo Flynn is recognising that the manifesto is NOT a de facto referendum and is next to worthless. It wouldnae matter if the SNP won all 57 seats. All Swinney would do is ask for a sec 30 from Starmer and be told to pissof. Swinney would then moan for a wee while about a democratic deficit and then get on with running devolution in Scotland for Westminster.
It is not a democratic deficit - there is no democracy in Scotland - never has been - Scotland is England's colony and has been since 1707.
Flynn is as true nuSNP as Swinney. With them in both parliaments, the party is doomed.
DeleteHopefully July sees the back of both of them. The healing has to restart somewhere.
KC at 9.32am - you ask why - the reason is that people do not like living in a colony with their resources stolen and their human rights diminished.
ReplyDeleteNow what's so good about being in a colony in your opinion as you clearly like being ruled by England. Any thoughts or are you just a Britnat troll.
PS KC you are a nat as well - a Britnat.
Only mere months ago the Union was in the minority in opinion polls.
ReplyDeleteAnd neither option holds an actual majority support, only a plurality. Virtually never happens union or independence has support of 50% of the electorate including don't knows.
Ask the same thing about other previously contentious but settled issues and that's not the case.
Because its not settled.
Fantasy we are a colony and fantasy the debate is done.
It's not that long ago that the same numpties who are now singing the praises of John REDACTOR MAN Swinney were lauding Yousaf as a great statesman. That tells you all you need to know about their judgement.
ReplyDeleteSome of them even thought Yousaf would deliver independence. Continuity Sturgeon FMs will only deliver devolution.
Vote SNP for devolution.
Vote Labour for change, both in Westminster and Holyrood.
DeleteAnon at 10.35am - you are a right numpty. You cannae change anything in Holyrood by voting Labour in a UK General Election. Labour have been promising to get rid of the House of Lords for well over a hundred years. Not very quick at making change are you.
DeleteStarmer is more right wing than some Tories. No wonder he was happy for some Tories to defect to Labour.
Ifs, I meant change in Holyrood in 2026. Thought you might have grasped that.
DeleteYet you accuse others of being numpties!
" I meant" - aye so you did - try writing what you mean then and not something else. It's a numpty who cannae write clearly what he means but what can you expect from a Starmer supporter. Starmer who changes what he means every day. He says Israel has every right to cut off food and water and basically everything to Palestinians and then says I didnae mean that.
DeleteLabour people who expect you to be bloody mind readers but the problem is they change their mind all the time.
Ifs, well one things for sure, if you vote for any party other than the SNP you’re effectively voting Labour.
DeleteThink about it!
Funny that anon at 11.50 am because others say you are effectively voting for the Tories. Blackmail and continuity SNP disnae cut it.
DeleteVoting for anyone is a vote for Westminster rule. Boycott the election!
DeleteAnon at 9.46am - I agree the debate is not done but it will never be done until people like you accept the reality that Scotland is England's colony. Only by recognising the true nature of the relationship will the people of Scotland be free.
ReplyDeleteI'm not voting for Sir Kid Starver and that is that. Live with it.
ReplyDeleteI don't have an issue with Alba but it does seem very Popular Front of Judea. United we stand, divided we fall. If we fall then so be it but there is no point crying about it afterwards.
ReplyDeleteI don't think every rabidly anti SNP poster is a genuine Alba supporter (although obviously some are). Some are dishonest. The same on boards like the Daily Mail urging Tories to vote Reform. I suspect Labour are actively employing social media campaigns to sow discord and split rival camps.
it had it's place in the SP election and the bet didn't come off.
DeleteThe can try again but in the case where SNP aren't winning seats as much, the super majority angle doesn't really wash.
I still fundamentally agree people are entitled to put their views to the electorate though and it's up to each party to convince voters.
The disconnect in the polls between support for independence and support for the SNP is too big for it to be down to Alba (otherwise Alba themselves would be polling significantly higher).
DeleteThe Rutherglen and Hamilton West By-election (which Alba didn't contest) showed that a lot of former SNP voters just stayed at home. Indicates a bigger problem at play.
I think that's a very good point - nail hit on head.
DeleteYup. In a word: we are scunnered.
DeleteThat's not to be confused, of course, with "defeated." We will return, when there is a party worthy of our belief and support.
In the meantime, let the Brits and their media delude themselves that the Jocks are back in the box. They'll discover the truth in good time.
Ifs, this colony nonsense you keep spouting is embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteThe big dug in his latest article states " there is no clear pathway to independence". There you are that's what we get after 10 years of Sturgeon/Yousaf/Swinney and people like Kavanagh supporting Sturgeon and telling us all Sturgeon would deliver on independence. The guy is a charlatan just like Sturgeon.
ReplyDeleteThere is a clear path and Kavanagh promoted it himself when Sturgeon punted it - a de facto referendum. Now he says there is no clear path.
Yet the charlatan has the gall to title his article " Make the Fourth of July Scotland's Independence Day" . Is that right big dug - but you said there is no clear path to independence. What a load of self serving pish he serves up to his stupid wee doggers.
Aye. It's sad to see. I like Kavanagh, but he made his bed when he went hardcore Sturgeonista. Of course all hope is lost because even The Great Leader chose to quit… for some unexamined reasons that it's best not to think about… oh look another SQUIRREL!
DeleteWhat will bring us all back together is an actual campaign with a clear route to independence. Until then, divided we remain.
So, under Sturgeon the mandate was 50% of the vote +1, then under Yousless it was a majority of seats, now they are predicted to get under 20 and as low as 12, what's the metric now?
ReplyDeleteWill it be a demand for a change in the school holiday dates?
what other mandate is there other than a majority of people voting for it? We do live in a democracy. That's how it should be and that's how it should be respected in a fair society.
DeleteIt's clear as day many pro-independence voters aren't in favour of giving one political party their vote forever and are happy to lend Labour their vote on this occasion. The fact SNP are even in touching distance (or winning) on the popular vote is testament to the strength of the independence movement here and actually the weakness of Labour.
" We do live in a democracy" - no we don't. That is a very common delusion. Scotland has never had democracy and the UK Supreme Court ruling proved that. Scotland voted for a referendum and England declared it illegal. That is not democracy that is a sign of a colonial status.
DeleteHow ironic that the Supreme Court went on to answer a question it was never asked by declaring that Scotland is not a colony. If that is true then it is a great shame as it places Scotland in a worse position than a colony in that it makes it more difficult to gain the support of the UN and others to obtain independence. The worst action that Sturgeon ever took was to take this case to the Supreme Court where every single member opposes Scottish independence-if they did not, they would not be there!
DeleteAnon at 11.41am - exactly. The court knew what they were doing by saying Scotland is not a colony - they said that because they knew Scotland is a de facto colony. Sturgeon deliberately betrayed Scotland but still numpties worship her.
Deleteanon at 11.53 doth protest a bit too much! haha
DeleteHey KC you are becoming a right boring fart repeating the same stuff over and over again. If a majority don't want it prove it in a referendum.
Delete"What other mandate is there other than a majority of people voting for it"
DeleteReally begs the question why the SNP disregarded that strategy at their Conference. We had the opportunity to use the General Election as a de-facto referendum but the SNP decided against it in favour of this "most seats" and then "begin immediate negotiations with the UK Government to give democratic effect to Scotland becoming an independent country" (aka ask for a referendum) pish.
Everyone on here advocating that we should vote SNP needs to answer why when they've clearly given up on any serious moves to move us forward and and are just using the prospect of indy to retain the Westminster short-money they've become heavily reliant on.
Anonymous May 23, 2024 at 11:02 AM - Well you have had a referendum and lost, and either you believe in gerrymandering referendums endlessly year after year until you win then that's not really democracy either, unless you carry on having them the reverse it.
Deletehere's a three point plan for you
1. Carry out divorce discussions with the UK government so you can put a fully negotiated independence plan to the country that's already agreed.
2. have accession talks with the EU and get a definitive statement on rejoining, what the conditions and timeline and requirements would be.
then ask for another referendum with something CONCRETE
Delete“Gerrymandering referendums year after year” - how so? Explain! The people of Scotland voted for another referendum. It is 10 years since the last referendum. How is that year after year?
Cameron went ahead with his EU referendum with only 37% voting him in to office. A much smaller percentage voted for him in Scotland.
Jerry says " you signed up for the union in 1707 on those terms"
DeleteFirst of all Jerry I didn't sign up for any union as I wisnae alive then. But more importantly the people of Scotland didnae sign up to the union as there was no democracy then. Indeed the vast majority of Scots signed petitions against the union. The Scottish parliamentarians (nobles/barons and the like ) sold out Scotland by being bribed, blackmailed and threatened. Also the terms of the treaty of union have consistently been broken by Westminster ( England). I've read some absolute tripe from Britnats over the years but the " if you didn't like it, don't sign it" is high up the list. The people of Scotland rioted and chased most of these parliamentarians who signed it out the country in fear of their life. A lot of them signed the act hiding in basements as Parliament wasn't reconvened as it was too dangerous for them.
The 2014 referendum was not legal. Apart from that Scots voted yes. It was the English who won the election for Westminster - and that was the boast from the Daily Mail soon after the referendum. In colonies the colonial country installs its citizens.
Jerry the last referendum was 10 years ago. Hardly " endlessly" as you say. In fact many Britnats said at the time there should not be another referendum for 10 years. Now people like you change your tune.
Earlier in your post you go on about the terms of union - well the UK Brexit referendum broke the terms but people like you quote the terms when you think it suits you but your ignorance allows you to ignore the terms at other times.
England conquered Scotland Wales and Ireland. The majority of the Irish like millions of people around the world have had the good sense to tell England to take a hike as you have stolen enough from them over the centuries. Wales in particular but also Scotland have had too many English immigrants who vote to maintain England's colonial control.
England can have as many referendums on whatever it wants - I don't care. Just don't bully Scotland into doing what it voted against doing. Scotland voted 62% to stay in the EU.
Switzerland have referendums all the time on all manner of subjects. The last time I looked Switzerland was doing very well as one of the wealthiest countries in the world per head of population. Disnae seem to be a problem for them.
In summary, your post is founded on a lot of ignorance.
Jerry at 2.17pm - your post is an argument against the EU referendum taking place. Seems strange since you say you wanted Brexit.
DeleteCameron held his EU referendum on only 37% of the vote on a manifesto with multiple promises.
In summary, your thought processes ain't very consistent or clear.
Independence for Scotland May 23, 2024 at 2:19 PM says
Delete"First of all Jerry I didn't sign up for any union as I wisnae alive then."
Yes, true, I wasn't alive when they made murder illegal, or signed up to a free travel area with Ireland, or the 1949 refugee convention or the ECHR in 1951 or a huge number of other international agreements.
So presumably they lapse when the last person alive when they were signed dies, is that it?
I also had no vote on the Good Friday Agreement, or signing up to the EEC, so presumably when a majority of current voters didn't have a vote they lapse, is that right?
A treaty between to countries transcends people's lifetimes but most treaties these days do have an exit clause written in which you can trigger, if you didn't insist on one, more foo you (or more accurately, your ancestors)
Jerry - it was YOU who said I signed up to the treaty. I never said you signed up to all these things you list. So the rest of your post is just poor straw man stuff.
DeleteAnd you did it again " if YOU didn't insist on one " - I wisnae there Jerry. I told you that already and how on earth do you know I had ancestors there. You are getting weird Jerry.
Bi- partite international treaties can be terminated when one party to the agreement breaks the articles of the treaty and England has trashed it.
So again Jerry, apart from your weird divergence in to my ancestors, your post is fundamentally based on ignorance. Not unusual from a Britnat. Normally stems from reading the Mail/Express/Redcoat.
KC at 10.33am - it's embarrassing that you cannae put a few sentences together to justify why you like being ruled by England.
ReplyDeleteif we voted 51% for independence in a defacto vote, it wouldn't be respected by London. That is colony material.
ReplyDeleteWe can't even put a vote without permission even if people vote for it by majority in seats and votes. That is colony material.
However, neither would 51% necessarily be respected by huge parts of our own country either.
It's complicated.
No point getting hung up in numbers but clearly a majority in 2014 is different to pushing independence after that vote.
Who would have thought the days of the Red Tories having a majority of MP's in Scotland would ever return. If you want to look at Legacies then look no further than this. Sturgeon did this to the SNP!
ReplyDeleteI think Yousaf is probably more immediately responsible for this. Sturgeon started the decline, but Yousaf still inherited a 'relatively' healthy polling position. Since his implosion the SNP has cratered.
DeleteIt's the Liz Truss effect. The electorate sees a game of musical chairs and turns away.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
DeleteLabour took Scottish votes for granted because they assumed the electorate would forever see them as being the only viable option to keep out the Tories. The SNP today reminds me a great deal of Labour pre-2007.
Nonesense. Look in the mirror.
DeleteI mean we've gotten to the point where we've stopped listing the reasons why we should vote SNP and borderline begging people to vote for them "for indy".
DeleteLabour didn't used to need to give a reason to vote for them, they would just say: Vote for us, we're not the Tories. SNP supporters now just say: Vote for us, we're not unionists.
But like Labours promises to reform the House of Lords the SNP don't have any intention of actually pursuing what they're voted in on.
Humza Yousaf is the SNP equivalent of Lee Harvey Oswald. Except Yousaf gets a lifetime annual payment of over £50k and Oswald got a bullet in the belly.
DeleteThere will not just be no Alba MPs. There will also be next to no SNP MPs. Scotland will have spoken, and it will once and for all have rejected the politics of division!
ReplyDeleteAnon at 10.58am London does not and will never respect Scotland and Scots on anything. They couldnae even be bothered to avoid calling the election during the school holidays in Scotland. We are a colony. We don't count. They only care about our resources. Colonies are there to be used, abused and subjugated. Respect disnae come in to the equation never mind basic human rights. We are EXTREMISTS according to England's PM.
ReplyDeleteScotland gets two less MPs in Westminster. England gets 10 more. Who decides that England. Who has over 600 MPs England - Scotland will have 57. England rules and England will always rule the fake union. It was designed that way in 1707. Some of the Scots parliamentarians sold out their country to England. The current lot in Holyrood are doing the same.
ReplyDeleteIn 1707 England's population was approx 4 times that of Scotland it is now 10 times that of Scotland. Does any thinking person think that is a good outcome for Scotland? No of course it isnae - it was designed that way - England rules - England controls everything.
Ifs, truly desperate nonsense.
DeleteEngland has 10 times the population of Scotland, hence roughly 10 times the number of MPs. Not too difficult to grasp surely!
Yes, but it still leaves a democratic deficit. The problem is the constitution, it can be changed to suit any purpose whenever that one part of the four nations decides it wants to. The creation of a Supreme Court being one example The lack of a written constitution is a problem that suits those in charge.
DeleteKC at 12.35am - so if you are so smart what was the ratio of English MPs to Scotland MPs in 1707 when the population ratio was 4:1.
DeleteSo England controls everything including the economy/finance that then drives up the population in England and depresses the population in Scotland ( by ethnic cleansing as well ) and that gives them more claim to more MPs. England looking after itself to the detriment of Scotland/Wales/NIreland. But Britnats like KC think that is just fine.
KC would have made a great serf in medieval times.
WT - I very rarely disagree with anything you post but it is not a democratic DEFICIT. That is the silly SNP speak. England controls everything - yes even Holyrood when it wants. There is NO democracy for Scotland because we are 100% controlled by England.
DeleteThe creation ( 20 odd years ago by Blair) of the UK Supreme Court being an example - it just ignores the treaty of union 1707 guaranteeing the independence of the Scottish legal system. It happened because England can do what it wants when it wants and our supposed independence politicians just then prattle on for a few days about a democratic deficit.
IfS is exactly right. "Democratic deficit" is up there with "home rule" in the list of fuzzy (1970s?) terms that just don't cut it. We should call a spade a spade.
DeleteThe terms of the union have been broken many times, with no consequences at all. That's not a deficit, that's an indictment.
Who decides the seats? Its the electoral commission based on having as close as possible to 75,000 people per constituency, which tells you that Scotland's population is declining and England's is increasing.
DeleteSimple as that, if you want more seats, perhaps attract more of the immigration aye?
KC at 2.14pm is there any old cliche you won't grasp. That referendum was never going to happen last October - totally irrelevant stuff from KC. KC wants his cake and eat it - there you are KC another old cliche you can use in the future - Britnats said it wisnae going to happen but KC now complains about something he thought wisnae going to happen 😂😂😂😂😂😂.
DeleteYou are pretty pathetic KC.
Jerry says " simple as that " aye Jerry it is simple. It simply shows that Scotland being a colony of England isnae good for Scotland. Pretty standard result for England's colonies. Of course the colonialists like Jerry say it is all the fault of the colony.
DeleteHey KC still waiting for you tell me what the ratio of English MPs to Scottish MPs was in 1707. Cat got your tongue - there you are KC another old cliche you can use in future as you seem to like them so much.
DeleteIndependence for Scotland May 23, 2024 at 3:24 PM
DeleteThen you have to demonstrate to the Scottish electorate that you have a credible and workable plan for independence, rather than saying its all Westminster's fault and if you were independent that money would flow like water.
It won't, as an independent state WITH your share of UK national debt, your borrowing costs would be at least double that of the UK with no borrowing history.
So first of all, come up with a credible plan, and don't say Scotland will refuse to have any UK debt, because following any vote, LIKE BREXIT you'll have to negotiate a divorce settlement and if you think you'll be able to swing that, then dream on.
Fundamentally, you have no credible plan and that's a major reason why you can't get >50% to win a referendum.
The best advert would have been running Scotland better than England which should have been easy with a £2,500 per head subsidy, and you have totally failed on that.
The result is, they don't trust you on independence, if they can trust you to manage Scotland now, that's the truth.
Jerry, it took you a while to get there but we got most of the usual Britnat misinformation. Although you forgot about the GERS report Jerry. I often wonder if Britnats like you actually believe the nonsense you spout or is it just a comfort blanket to try and convince yourself that England the greatest ever coloniser who went around the world stealing other people's resources actually gives Scots £2500 per head more than they give the English. The same government who needed an English footballer to shame them in to helping starving English schoolchildren is giving all that extra money to Scots. You really believe that Jerry😂😂😂😂😂. How many times have you been scammed Jerry. Have you been on Rip - off Britain. Jerry gullible is what you should post under.
DeleteI'm guessing you believed all the Britnat Better Together lies back in 2014 that the oil would run out in the next 5-10 years. Anyone with a partial brain new it was a pack of lies just like the guff you come out with now. It's now not just the oil and gas England is stealing it is electricity generated in Scotland. It will be water in the near future as England dries up and its rivers become nothing but dried out hardened shit depositories.
Or how about the UK has a top credit rating and Scotland would be rated much lower - more guff from 2014. The UK credit rating has plummeted since then.
Jerry not sure why you keep prattling on about me not having a plan or me not being trusted. I ain't a politician and I ain't a member of a political party but I can spot lies and complete guff a mile way and your posts are full of it.
Jerry,
DeleteScotland probably is run better than England. My kid get into uni without debt, childcare and bus passes off the top of my head. The NHS, though failing, is better than England and Wales.
Regards
maybe we are a colony then. I don't think it matters what we call it. We're both in a position of being a country who doesn't seem capable of forcing independence both because of our overlords and our own people.
ReplyDeleteIf we convince our own people in sufficient numbers, then you have to think plates shift. If it doesn't, then we're as well not bothering. But i think there is enough residual respect Scotland is a nation that if we really, obviously wanted independence, it would have to happen.
Sinn Fein will probably do very well at these elections.
ReplyDeleteSee the importance of having popular leaders like Michelle O'Neill
Sinn Féin has a lot going for it, including a left wing position that's more popular among the Irish public than the major parties against them, either side of the border.
DeleteAlso: a vote for Sinn Féin is explicitly AGAINST London rule and the parliament. Abstentionism makes their purpose crystal clear.
Ifs, Swinney made a fool of himself yesterday, as you have just done yourself, by bringing up the election being called during school holidays.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Sturgeon’s plan to hold an independence referendum during last Octobers school holidays?
Nobody does hypocrisy like nationalists.
Except Sturgeon never had any intention of holding an independence referendum in October or any other month or year. Sturgeon is and was a fraud - the only ones who believe she wanted independence are deluded SNP cultists and rabid unionists. Ironically, it's the only thing they agree on.
ReplyDeleteMadrid has defeated Catalonia with a legal block and criminal consequences.
ReplyDeleteThe catalans are now apathetic and we're going in the same direction (for now).
In both cases the state hasn't defeated independence, it's still there. But something will meed to happen to turn support into action.
The Catalans, like us, need a clear majority of the population in favour of independence. They didn't get that in 2017, and they haven't improved since then.
DeleteSpain's constitution is a hurdle for them we ourselves don't face. But ultimately, both Scotland and Catalonia will decide their own fate. Clear, settled, popular will always finds a way.
We do now thanks to Sturgeon's folly of going to SC.
DeleteAnon at 12.48. I think one of the advantages we have over the Catalans is that historically we are a separate nation that entered into a union. I know that is lost in the mist of time, but it still is part of the fantasy of the UK and they cannot buck that. Secondly, the Catalans signed up to the written constitution that does not allow secession, I think this was back in 1978 but not sure. Technically, we have more room to manoeuver we just need to do it.
ReplyDeleteSpain's constitution was written by the generals who succeeded General Franco's dictatorship. Catalans like the rest of Spain voted overwhelmingly to ratify it, to bring democracy to Spain. Unfortunately, they didn't read the small print…
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_Spanish_constitutional_referendum
Should a people be bound by a referendum forever? The Spanish referendum happened before I was born, and I’m not young! 2014 becomes more like that with every passing year…
WT. you are correct in analysing Scotland’s stronger position in the UK compared with Catalonia within Spain. BUT Westminster realises this, which is why unionists in the Lords (soon to be joined by the Brit Nat fanatic Alistair Jack) are scheming to create a “better Union” treaty with its primary but unspoken purpose to make it impossible for Scotland to escape the Union by signing up to a new constitution with similar consequences for Scottish independence as the Spanish constitution has had for Catalonia
DeleteThe day the English write their constitution is the day the UK vanishes in a puff of legally undefinable smoke.
DeleteThey won't write a constitution just because of us Scots. Perish the thought! They won't write a constitution, full stop.
The position in Catalonia is of zero relevance to the constitutional issues facing Scotland. Suggesting an equivalence is the remit of the unionists. A combination of failing SNP competence in government and relentless MSM and BBC lies and negativity has put us where we are. On the periphery we have a small band of mouth frothers and idiots, who claim to support Indy but who are involved in a constant attempt to sow division and discord. Principally WOS and a small band of disingenuous (I am being
DeletePolite) posters on here. In terms of GE voting intentions many former SNP members/voters are staying away. SNP need to work out how to restore the belief and commitment of those members/voters. If they do so the position will improve. The good news is that the mouth frothers and idiots in their little bubbles have no effect on the outcome. They are desperate to be seen as relevant, thus the multiple postings and the billy liar claims and behaviour. If ignored, they will eventually go back to playing with their toys.
And tell us "how do you do it"
DeleteGyrates hips enthusiastically…
DeleteWhich part of “SNP need to work out how to” are you struggling with?
DeleteAnon 2:05 "I am being polite". Then goes on to describe other posters he disagrees with as mouth frothers, idiots and Billy liars😁You don't do irony do you?
DeleteAnon at 3.01pm - I couldn't read the post at 2.05pm for all the foam from the mouth frothing. Hopefully his local pharmacy has something that will help.
DeleteScotland will vote Labour, yes. But "once and for all" is a long time in politics. If you think Sir Keir's government will have us all rolling on our backs and purring, don't bank on it!
ReplyDelete@Felix: Absolutely correct.
ReplyDeleteScotland will vote Labour ? Remember the Feeble Fifty ?
ReplyDeleteIfs ... Alf Baird's wee lapdog...." sit nice ifs and you can have a wee Salvo
ReplyDeletesweetie."...lol
Anon at 2.55pm - a lowlife troll with nothing worthwhile to say.
ReplyDeleteThe saddest thing is, IfS, I think you've only got 2 trolls, working hard on their same old shite. One's KC, the Bally Ho Jocks Away airhead Englishman, and the other's Dr. Jim in his nightie.
DeleteAnon at 3.56pm - after years of extensive analysis of the Britnat and SNP trolling I get I have come to the conclusion that the most obnoxious and lowlife trolling comes from the SNP/WGD mob. I guess they didnae like me being correct about Sturgeon. Perhaps me taking the piss out of their posts on WGD also was a factor😀. Most of the Britnats are just standard simple Britnats with their heads full of Daily Express rubbish.
DeleteAs they like to crow on the BBC: "if both sides are attacking you, then you must be doing something right."
DeleteBut when both sides are two cheeks of the same arse? A question to trouble political scientists for the ages.
Anon@3:56, Most of the blog these days is taken up by trolls (it could be the same person as they all hide behind anonymity) attacking IFS. It's tedious and never ending and makes the comment section hardly worth reading any more. Another six weeks of this in the run up to the election will just about finish this place for me.
DeleteDoes anyone get up on their high horse to lecture Reform voters that they must vote Tory or else they're as good as voting Labour?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone rant at Greens that a Green vote is a wasted vote and they should swallow their objections to the Genocide in Gaza and vote for Starmer?
Does anyone ever go into the woods to talk to bears about hygiene?
I do find it amusing that the Scottish Greens are set to stand a "record number" of candidates in the General Election but all the focus is on Alba "splitting the vote".
DeleteThe greens have a different politics from SNP and Alba.
DeleteGreens don't shit in the woods, they fertilise. It's all ecology, you see…
DeleteFor some reason I can't fathom the Greens are perceived as being a pro-indy Party and in a FPTP voting system they're as likely as Alba are of winning a seat in the General Election. So the Greens are "splitting the vote" just as much if not more than Alba.
DeleteAch, maybe I'll vote Green, just to stir the pot. They were half way to keeping their deposit here last time!
DeleteI’m really not sure Ross and his unionist buddies addressing the FM as Honest John is quite the slur they imagine it is.
ReplyDeleteSwinney has a rock solid reputation not just in politics but across the entire country with ordinary people as being just that. 100% honest & straightforward. Honed over decades and decades.
And Humza was bigger than Jesus too. Yeah, we got it the first time.
DeleteTrolling him as Honest John may well pay off when he's spinning wildly about how losing 40 seats is Nothing To See Here, Move Along Now.
DeleteJohn is very highly regarded by ordinary Scottish people.
DeleteKC at 12.16pm says "Sturgeon's plan" - you know fine well KC there was never a plan. She just picked a date out of the air and threw it out there to keep the numpties on side for a bit longer. KC you are just a simple Britnat chancer clutching at straws. Oops I've used one of your old cliches - me bad.
ReplyDeleteNae luck for the SNP as Britnat TV reports that the polis have passed their report on Murrell to the COPFS. A double whammy as they also bring up Mathieson getting suspended by Holyrood for wrongdoing. The polis also say investigations into Sturgeon and Beattie the Murrell's tame Treasurer are continuing. What's the odds that Sturgeon and/or Beattie get charged just before the election? They brought it on themselves.
ReplyDeleteI have no sympathy for any of them. They have brought shame on a once great party.
Meanwhile in London the Tories get away with billions of dodgy deals. What a shithouse of a country the UK is.
None of this matters. The SNP is the only party which is not a wasted vote.
DeleteThat’s the Beleaguered, Scandal-Ridden SNP, to you. 😉
DeleteSome of the simpletons on WGD seem to think that the ebezzlement headlines will increase SNP support. Another has rejoined as she wants to go back to giving the SNP money. Surprising or astonishing or just plain bonkers?
ReplyDeleteMurrell has not been found guilty and these charges are just allegations at this stage.
DeleteVote for the dodgy party with the power couple in the dock! We’re sure they’re innocent. 😇
DeleteWhat else must happen to burst the bubble for these guys? Swinney giving sworn evidence against his former boss during the election campaign?
Anon at 8.06pm - first of all I have never said anyone has been found guilty. So who said he was guilty for you to say that - nobody. Pointless pish post.
Delete@IfS: As the home and stomping ground for Scotland’s favourite multinational ski slope and toilet inspector, WGD may need a health warning for weapons grade shite below the line.
ReplyDeleteTake claims there with a little… healthy cynicism to say the least.
Oh, they’re turning on the Greens now, too? Good, good. Get the pop corn. 🥤
ReplyDelete8.30. I couldn't care less about splitting the vote. Indeed I actively encourage anyone to try and oust their local SNP MP. They need to be sent their marching orders. The movement cannot rebuild until their rotten carcass is no longer around to contaminate our movement.
ReplyDeleteThere are none so blind as those who wulny see.
Basically yes.
Delete“Nicola’s gang” as IfS calls them, need heaved right out of the SNP. Only then can healing begin.
Basically aye.
DeleteLeadership is everything. Until the SNP has an honest to god independence minded leader, it’s nae use but an active roadblock to Scotland’s rightful future.
'your movement !....what a disgusting anti-Scottish troll you are.
DeleteAnon at 8.45pm - while I agree with the sentiments of your post. It's Sturgeon's gang not Nicola's gang😀
DeleteWhile I’m only actually looking forward to seeing Wishart defeated on the night (McDoanld would be wild), I am actively anticipating the schadenfreude of the “ignore the polls, Scotland belongs to us” brigade in the SNP for exactly the same reason I thoroughly enjoyed their smug, entitled, and ultimately ostrich-like forerunners in Labour.
ReplyDeleteWGD’s gonna be amazing on July 5th.
Please release me - do you think the SNP will ever be forgiven for its behaviour and broken promises?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteYousaf got a massive egg on his face for standing by Mathieson for so long.
DeleteNow Swinney is doing the same as well. But he is acting like an even bigger diddy as there is an election in a few weeks time. So much for the safe pair of hands. Some people never learn.
Sturgeon's gang look after each other no matter the cost to the SNP or Scotland.