And as with any new political party, Alba attracted its share of misfits and opportunists. But three years on, the organisation has shaken down and a team of dedicated local activists and organisers has emerged.https://t.co/zPTwhk0QJm
— Robert Reid (@robertreidALBA) May 13, 2024
This is awful language. Is it intended to refer to people like Eva Comrie in a deniable way? She wasn't a misfit, she isn't an opportunist. https://t.co/ontS8PeEyo
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) May 14, 2024
James, it's a fact that when parties start up they attract a wide range of people, most are great, but some see it as an opportunity to advance their own agenda/profile/opportunity. It's great praise to say after just three years we've distilled down a dedicated team.
— Robert Reid (@robertreidALBA) May 14, 2024
There wasn't really an answer to those questions. If I had worries about some Alba members in the early days (and I did), it was simply because of their views, either because they had unrealistically radical notions of how independence could be achieved, or because in a very small number of cases they were climate change deniers or whatever. I also had a specific dispute with those who essentially wanted to exclude most English people resident in Scotland from the franchise for any future indyref. But I don't think I ever suspected people of joining Alba for opportunistic or careerist reasons, which would have been absurd given that career prospects are obviously far healthier in a large party than in a small one. (The only example anyone was able to come up with today of a genuine opportunist was Kamran Butt.) Nor do I think the flurry of recent departures can be explained by people becoming frustrated that their dastardly opportunistic ambitions have been thwarted. If you actually bother to listen to what the people who have left are saying, in a lot of cases they speak of a toxic culture of bullying, and can often supply convincing details of their claims.So there you go - that's exactly your own view, so why were you trying the "not my words" excuse? Who are these people and why do you feel so strongly about them? Are they still in the party, and if not, why not? Have they left? Have they been expelled?
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) May 14, 2024
But instead, history is being rewritten with an artificial narrative that "we're better off without these people, who were only in it for themselves". And in spite of the innocent protestations today, I've heard variations on that line directed at Eva Comrie in particular, which really is crazy given that she gave up a plum spot at the top of the SNP list to join Alba. I was on the Alba NEC with her for a year, and so I know how passionately committed she was to Alba's success, and how supportive she was of Alex Salmond personally. If she had criticisms, they were always constructive ones intended to maximise the chances of Alba securing electoral victories. As far as I could see, if she had driving ambitions, they were for Alba, and for Scotland, and for the independence cause, not for herself.
I accept that no one person is bigger than any political party, but I do think Eva Comrie was valuable enough that the leadership should at least have seen if it was possible to open up a dialogue with her and address enough of her concerns to persuade her to reconsider her decision to leave. And if there were one or two key people whose pride was standing in the way of that dialogue, well, they're not bigger than the party either.
But if we buy into this notion that Alba has shaken off the "undesirables" and has now been "distilled" (what a euphemism) into a smaller "dedicated team", what is the dedication towards? What's the goal of this small vanguard party on which iron discipline is being imposed? If it's to win list seats in 2026 and use that as leverage to help bring about independence, that would make absolutely perfect sense. But the vote to bring down the SNP government a couple of weeks ago was not consistent with that interpretation, because it's likely to have alienated independence supporters who might otherwise have been tempted to give their list vote to Alba. The same problem applies to the recent flurry of announcements of Alba candidates for the Westminster general election, which will be conducted under first-past-the-post, and thus any votes Alba take away from the SNP will simply help unionist parties win seats.
I make no bones about it - this is something I disagree with Eva Comrie about as much as I disagree with the Alba leadership. With Labour on the verge of a major comeback, the independence movement needs to be united behind one candidate in each constituency in any first-past-the-post election. It's extremely unfortunate that the SNP turned down the proposal for a cross-party Scotland United slate of candidates, but that boneheadedness is not an alibi for smaller pro-indy parties or independent candidates to behave destructively by splitting the vote in an emergency situation for our movement. In my view, what should have happened, and what should still happen, is Alba and other small parties taking a leaf out of Tommy Sheridan's book. In 2015, Solidarity didn't put up candidates in the general election, but made clear they would put up list candidates in the 2016 Holyrood election and in the meantime urged their supporters to vote for the SNP in the first-past-the-post election for the greater good of independence. That was a unilateral decision - no deal with the SNP was required for Solidarity to do the right thing.
Over the weekend, Redfield & Wilton published a full-scale Scottish poll that showed the biggest Labour lead for Westminster so far -
Labour 38% (+5)
SNP 31% (-1)
Conservatives 14% (-3)
Liberal Democrats 8% (-)
Greens 4% (+2)
Reform UK 4% (-1)
Alba 1% (-1)
What would that 1% for Alba actually achieve? It's not going to win independence, but it may well gift one or two seats to Labour or even the Tories. If that happens, many independence supporters may take note and withhold their list votes from Alba in 2026. It would make much more sense to tell Alba supporters to bide their time until 2026, and to unite behind SNP candidates this year as the best chance of stopping Labour. The Alba 1% suddenly can make a big difference if they're asked to use their votes to make a dent in Labour's seven-point lead over the SNP - to state the obvious, it would solve one-seventh of the problem, which is far from nothing.
The logic of the situation might be different if the SNP were cruising to a landslide victory and independence supporters had the luxury of doing something different with their vote without causing any damage, but that's not where we are. It's the total opposite of where we are.
So my advice to the Alba leadership is to slow down the rush to unveil Westminster candidates, and to give serious consideration to actively endorsing SNP candidates in the vast majority of constituencies. That is without doubt the best strategy for keeping the independence cause alive. There's not much use in having a tightly disciplined party if the imposed discipline is directed towards a counterproductive strategy or the wrong goal. I'm not interested in Alba using the general election to settle old scores with John Swinney or with Nicola Sturgeon. I'm only interested in achieving independence, and vote-splitting in a first-past-the-post election makes that less likely to happen, not more so.
I know that a lot of people won't like this blogpost, but if there was ever a moment where some home truths are urgently required, I'd suggest this is it.
The warnings about what Alex Salmond was doing were always there, isn't it time to believe them?
ReplyDeleteIt is desperately sad to see what Alba and Salmond have become.
ReplyDeleteWe were warned that Alba was a vehicle for Salmond’s ego and revenge, we should have heeded the warning.
And as for the Alba Young Team they are every bit as poisonous as the Stirling lads in the SNP. Accuse others of what you are guilty of Robert Reid a paid staff member is doing very well out of his Alba career.
So many women have been bullied out of Alba the latest being Heather McLean who was second on the North East list.
It is difficult not to come to the conclusion that Alba is a spoiler Party. To prevent a genuine pro-Indy second party being established.
I expected more from Alba, as I believed Salmond’s pitch in 2021 and voted for the party instead of the Greens. Those who know me thought I was gullible for taking Salmond at his word. Sadly, little Alba has done since—the exceptions being Ash’s referendum bill and Salmond’s Scotland United proposal—has proved them wrong. Safe to say I don’t feel bad for dumping the Greens when I did, though. I had the read of them, if not Alba.
DeleteWise words which continue to fall on deaf ears, it seems. The Party should have concentrated on it's current 2 seats and had Eva as the candidate lined up for Grangemouth.
ReplyDeleteThis ever expanding list of candidates is pointless. If it were only a paper candidate, well and good, to secure PPB rights. However, the Party seems to want to mount campaigns in these seats, rather than real targeting of seats. Electionitus seems to have taken over. The GE should have been seen as an opportunity to hone Alba's electioneering capabilities in those 3 seats in preparation for 2026 at Holyrood and build experience.
Building momentum is not achieved by lack lustre campaigning in too many seats. I may be pleasantly surprised by the campaigns and results, however I won't be holding my breath.
You have absolutely no chance in any of the three seats you mention. You shot yourselves in the foot in the VONC two weeks ago. Stand ANY candidates in the upcoming Westminster election and you shoot yourselves in the head, even if your votes, in arithmetic terms, do not cost SNP a seat to the unionists. You are already on the edge of oblivion. No one likes home truths, as James says, but you need to learn this one or you and others with your mindset will never be forgiven by the wider Indy movement, and Alba will be destroyed by its own actions. Do you ever ask yourself why you think it is a good idea to have your party led by the most unpopular person in Scottish politics? It suggests that collectively you are not very bright.
DeleteWhat do you think they *should* do then, anon? Disband the party and throw Eck under another bus?
DeleteRevert to their original purpose, and contest the list vote at the next Holyrood election. That does not need, and indeed Alba should not even attempt to seek, agreement with the SNP. As to why they would want to throw Eck under a bus, I’ll leave that with you. Having the most unpopular politican in Scottish politics as your leader just seems stupid to me.
DeleteIn a FPTP election, a large party like the SNP should avoid standing aside for a smaller ally such as Alba due to several risks: it may alienate core supporters, dilute its brand, set a negative precedent, and disrupt local campaign infrastructure.
ReplyDeleteVoter behaviour is unpredictable, and standing aside can be seen as a sign of weakness, potentially leading to political fragmentation and loss of national cohesion.
These factors could undermine the SNP’s long-term strength, credibility, and strategic advantage, outweighing any short-term benefits of an electoral pact.
Hi, ChatGPT.
DeleteAlba isn't an never will be an ally of the SNP, Alba exists to dilute the SNP not to strengthen it as was always Alex Salmond's intention, and now proven to be correct, which will be a disappointment to many people who had hoped otherwise
DeleteThe idea the SNP and Alba could consider each other allies is a wild hallucination, AI or otherwise.
DeleteDr Jim at 5.02pm - why anyone should listen to you is beyond me. You have been wrong about Sturgeon delivering indyref2 for year after year since 2017 and you regularly post lies. Your idol Sturgeon is up to her neck in trouble.
DeleteA political party that does not field candidates is just an irrelevant debating society. From what I hear, it doesn't even allow much debate either.
ReplyDelete"A political party that does not field candidates is just an irrelevant debating society."
DeleteThat's a comment that sounds clever but doesn't make sense. It's extremely frequent for parties, especially small parties, to choose their battles wisely and sit out specific elections. I can't really argue with you on your second sentence, though.
It seems ALBA has avoided any battle for fear of being embarrassed eg Rutherglen. Time will tell but I think ALBA will slowly die off as some members (not all) will drift to the SNP.
Delete"It's extremely unfortunate that the SNP turned down the proposal for a cross-party Scotland United slate of candidates, ..."
ReplyDeleteThere was never a snowflake's chance in hell of the SNP going for such an idea, nor the Greens. And if it had happened and it was a Green in my constituency there isn't a snowflake's chance in hell I'd have voted for them. Nor most of the people I know. It would have been a total waste of a constituency. And with their attitude of "anything but the SNP", I wouldn't vote for Alba either, nor people I know.
Scotland United was a myth from start to death warmed up finish.
Divided we fall.
DeleteOne way of doing it would be to divide the constituencies evenly between the parties. SNP, Greens, Alba, ISP, I4I. So 11 each plus 1 extra each for the SNP and Greens as the largest parties. Which means an absolute maximum of 12 seats for pro-indy parties even if all the SNP candidates were elected.
DeleteWhat use would that to be to man, woman, other or beast?
ANY seat where the SNP did not stand would be a Unionist win. And that's just a statement of the reality.
I'm curious on what your thoughts are that voting for the SNP in the General Election would be perceived as supporting them to just keep doing what they've been doing: Collecting Westminster short money & stringing the independence movement along just enough to get them safely to the other side of the next two elections.
ReplyDeleteTo many the biggest roadblock to independence at this point is the SNP themselves and we can't afford to have another decade of more of the same. It would also be ridiculous after every olive branch Alba has offered being slapped away if we're just going to give our unconditional support to the SNP regardless. That would bring into question: What's even the point of Alba in the first place?
Also if the SNP continues to have our support and keep winning elections... what possible motivation would they have to change? The literal definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different outcome.
"I'm curious on what your thoughts are that voting for the SNP in the General Election would be perceived as supporting them to just keep doing what they've been doing: Collecting Westminster short money & stringing the independence movement along just enough to get them safely to the other side of the next two elections."
DeleteThat line of argument has always baffled me. The alternative to having SNP MPs is having Labour and Tory MPs. How do you think installing those will be interpreted? It may be that the real definition of madness is convincing yourself that unionist election victories will somehow bring independence closer.
"That would bring into question: What's even the point of Alba in the first place?"
Simple answer: to fight and win Holyrood list seats. In the first press conference, Alex Salmond specifically defined Alba as a "list-only party".
How do you solve the disconnect between support for the SNP in the polls dropping like a stone while support for independence has pretty much remained steady? It used to be the other way around. Just saying: We should all hold our noses and vote SNP regardless doesn't work anymore.
DeleteIt's clear that faith in the SNP is at an all time low and anything Alba does at this point likely won't change anything, the best we can do is pick up as many of those disgruntled former SNP voters as we can.
Well, that's the comforting lie - that we'd just be picking up former SNP voters who would be voting Labour (or abstaining) in the absence of an Alba candidate. That's highly unlikely. If you care enough about independence, you wouldn't vote for a unionist party. But if you don't care about independence, you wouldn't even consider voting Alba.
DeleteSmaller parties like Alba have a tough decision in FPTP elections. If they run, they get more attention and can push their ideas but might split the vote, making it easier for opponents to win. Not running can help their bigger ally, the SNP, win more seats and show a united front, but Alba then loses its chance to be seen and heard. They could also make deals with the SNP to stay out of certain areas in exchange for support. The best choice depends on balancing their goals with practical election strategies and what voters want.
ReplyDeleteThe SNP's attitude to Alba has essentially been: Go away you're a irrelevance. Vote for us or independence is dead.
DeleteScotland United would have allowed deals to be made but the SNP ridiculed it at every opportunity and have resorted to blackmailing the independence movement into voting for them. I'm starting to think that the SNP genuinely believes that they own the independence movement and we wouldn't be able to survive without them.
I can't support a Party that doesn't treat me or my Party with respect and I can't back their election strategy as it's utterly bonkers that won't move us any closer to independence... what does that leave me with?
It seems you just don’t want people to vote at all thereby by default helping labour/ tories/ Lib Dem’s.
DeleteSeems if you do wish to protest vote then the SNP seems the logical choice as the only party that will win seats.
But isn't that the same argument Labour used to use?
Delete'Not voting by default helps the Tories as Labour are the only logical choice to keep the Tories out of power'.
When they were the dominant Party in Scotland they took our votes for granted and people kept voting for them regardless for as long as they did because it was perceived that they only viable option available. The SNP today reminds me a great deal of Labour before 2007.
Responding to Anonymous May 14 at 5.14pm above: The unfortunate but realistic problem Alba have is public optics and it's mainstream optics and awareness of what Alba is that count in a GE. Upcoming GE is a do or die situation regarding UKplc domination intent. If UKplc had any worries at all about Alba (they don't - they think ASalmond is another of their anti-SNP marketing tools UK wide: fact) - Sunak would have named Alba in his extremist fear speech. Scotland truly needs to impact on UKplc at this GE and all of UKplc and all who sail in her see SNP as their ONLY roadblock to now taking control of Scotland. Bleating on about 'the SNP took our votes for granted' is ignoring complexity of realistic day to day governance issues and the reality is that there is no time since 2015 that Scotland was likely to vote for independence. That's a fact which is too often blithely ignored. Also ignored are other extenuating unfortunate factors which came about due to knee-jerk personal issues and a very bad choice of progression in that regard.
DeleteDon't doubt that there are UKplc bad actors all over and in Scotland right now beavering away to, by hook and crook, to enable the airbrushing out of the SNP in Scotland. As far as UKplc and states abroad are concerned, it's only SNP results which they look to as an indication of the condition and will of Scotland and its voters - and on which overseas actors contemplate their relationship with UKplc after any GE result. Fact.
Labour are confident they have Scotland in the bag. Non Yes voters are being lured by that confidence and even some Yes voters are doing the spite against the SNP 'thing' declaring they will vote Labour - in so doing, wrongly viewing this GE as being pretty small fry and time for an anti-SNP protest vote. Which is a stupid parochial approach because if Labour win big in this GE in Scotland - that will enable changes being made to how Holyrood works coming courtesy of UKplc, and they will enact those changes faster than you can blink. And don't imagine they don't already have some plan in mind to change how Holyrood elections work. Saying we still have a huge chance in 2026 to show them Scotland is for independence is a shot in the dark. Labour win big in Scotland at this GE is their trigger to completely change Holyrood, you've already seen Tories Murdo Fraser appearing to come up with new plans 'out of the blue'. These ideas are NOT out of the blue. UKplc and their think tanks and supporting institutions within and without Scotland have been preparing their little blueprints for some time.
You need to prepare for shocking change and more losses than you can imagine if Labour and combined unionist parties in Scotland DO end up more successful than you can imagine at this GE. Money and influencers with intent pouring into Scotland big time to make it happen.
Don't reduce your thinking to party grudges and the usual bones of contention and doing the SNP 'took our votes for granted' tropes. You need to think way way bigger than that. Look out for businesslike looking strangers already floating around Scotland preparing UKplc activities. Believe me - they're here.
This GE could bring a change we do not want - and it could be catastrophic and NOT the SNP's fault. Weigh up the REAL challenge and act accordingly. Best wishes to all.
Rob here, I was going to scroll on by till I read Scott's comment above. My MP's the tory who replaced Eilidh Whiteford who replaced Alex Salmond. Since Mr Salmond was FM, I've voted SNP, Alba and Green - basically whatever Indy-combo made sense at the time - and never thought of not voting. I look at the parties now and do not know what to do. Short of joining to be thrown out as "disruptive at conference," how's an ordinary voter to register dissatisfaction?
ReplyDeleteSome would tell you to spoil your ballot. I wouldn’t bother. They’re as impotent and anonymous as abstentions.
DeleteSome would tell you to write to your representatives. I wouldn’t bother. They get enough junk mail from “the green ink brigade” as it is, you’ll be lost in the pile.
Some would tell you to start your own party. I wouldn’t bother. Alba’s gotten nowhere. ISP either. And does anyone reckon any of the “indies4indy” has a chance to keep their deposit (let alone win), besides for Eva Comrie in Grangemouth? The public doesn’t want new parties. It wants the present ones to work harder.
Grangemouth is the wildcard, though. The collapse of the refinery just might deliver a shocker at the election, with a hard enough ground campaign by determined Yessers. But what’s Eva to do if she’s elected? Replace the three MPs (Alba plus MacNeil) who will be lost on the same night? A question for Starmer every few months, and just as easily ignored.
Politics: no fun at all for outsiders. The ambitious know to Infiltrate.
The SNP will lose seats in the upcominging Westminster election because of the SNP. Not because of Alba or any other party. More and more people in the independence movement now realise the SNP is a party of devolution, not independence.
ReplyDeleteBest result of the election will be a very low turnout. Westminster deserves contempt yet the SNP, Alba Greens still think it's the only game in town. As a result Westminster wins every time no matter how many seats the SNP gets.
I 'll vote for a party that has the policy of abstentionism in its manifesto. ISP won't be putting up a candidate in my constituency therefore I'll be abstaining.
Voting SNP is crucial for securing Scotland's future. Independence offers us the power to make decisions that reflect our values and priorities. By voting SNP, you're supporting a vision of prosperity, equality, and a stronger, more vibrant Scotland. Let's take control and shape our destiny. Vote SNP!
DeleteAnon at 8:12, utter nonsense.
DeleteThe country desperately needs change,
Vote Labour.
It's also interesting that many don't seem to have an issue with the Greens standing against the SNP in the General Election in what apparently is going to be a record number of Green candidates standing.
DeleteThe same Greens who forced out Humza Yousaf and have admitted to be open to propping up a Labour Government at Holyrood... but it's Alba who are the problem?
Use your vote but for the one that has a better chance of winning the independence argument. So not green nor labour nor tories….. easy isn’t it.
DeleteScott: the Greens are not the same type of politics as SNP.
DeleteLong ago I spent some years as part of a small entryist group within the Labour Party ( in England and no, it wasn't 'Militant'). It was quite effective at ideologically regrouping people within local party organisations.
ReplyDeleteI 'm not convinced quite yet but, reading this thread, perhaps such a strategy, by determined Yessers, inside the SNP might be the best eay forward for a while ?
That was actually tried before Alba came on the scene. A determined group within the SNP ran an internal "good guys" campaign for the National Executive Committee election and it was initially successful... but that NEC was undermined by the leadership, unelected individuals added on and in the end no meaningful changes were able to be implemented. After that many realised that internal reform wasn't possible & they left the SNP. Later some of those people found a new home in Alba and understandably held some resentment towards their former Party.
DeleteYes, I was a small part of it. It seemed a bit naive in that many appeared to assume that it could all be done in one push and then rapidly faded away when the counter push came from the Sturgeonite apparatchiki. Entryism takes patience and determination. But, I take your point that the idea isn't new.
DeleteResponse to Scott May 14th above: Hi Scott. There is a GE coming up and UKplc are approaching it like The Terminator. Regurgitating what by comparison is irrelevant small fry stuff from the recent past and endless churning over ambiguous and not always reliable narrator facts and personalities and axes to grind internally in the 'Yes' arena - is one of the reasons why that concentration is a complete distraction from the seriousness of what people are ignoring as the major factor attention should be totally on.
DeleteThis GE, from a Yes viewpoint, COULD be catastrophic for Scotland if people continue to navel gaze on internal Yes body issues at domestic level and I can see already that any disappointments and failures will suffer from the constant lazy trope 'ah well that's the SNP's fault - undermined by the leadership, resentments...' Going around in circles and never moving forward.
UKplc are coming for us ALL at this GE with more armory than they've ever employed before. Wakey wakey!
UKplc ARE coming for ALL of Scotland at this GE. Their target IS THE SNP. If the SNP have big losses at this GE and Yes voters have enabled it or are inclined to think they will be gleeful about losses - then that short-term knee-jerk thinking merely enables UKplc permanent containment of the Scottish Parliament and Scotland. Regurgitating ambiguous narratives from one set of individuals (because you like the sound of it and you like a specific person because they say what you want to hear anyway) - perhaps has always needed a wee bit more impartial scrutiny and consideration of the performative nature of creating a situation to have a 'desired outcome'.
I admire Eva Comrie - but she, like everyone else once associated with or still associated with Alba are overall airbrushed out of the public consciousness by the presence everywhere of Mr Salmond in the media and beyond. The media naturally get big dibs out of Mr Salmond, moths to the flame with an opportunistic and often nostalgic media habit and certainly fulfils the clickbait targets online. There is always, rightly or wrongly doesn't matter, the underlying public debate as to what drives Mr Salmond's activities - and that has to be a realistic consideration when contemplating how the public outwith the Yes bubble relate to Alba and Mr Salmond -and where their heads might go for a GE. Fact.
GE is the last chance for Holyrood as our sitting there tool for independence - not the 2026 Holyrood election. UKplc/The Terminator are viewing this GE as their BIG opportunity to manipulate it as they will. Please folks, bear that in mind. Erode the SNP at the GE - Holyrood is there for UKplc taking. They don't need to wait for a 2026 Holyrood election - they can change what they like in a devolved administration well before that. All best wishes.
Oh the Alaba Party. They can't even pronounce their name. Is Tasmina Ahmed Sheik somewhere to the right wing of Suella Bravermen? Who votes for these people? It's headed by somene that is completely unelectabe seconded by a Tory. All the fan club they are going to get has gone.
ReplyDeleteThe best hope for Alba would be a new leader but that is just not possible. Firstly he cheats - the NEC elections over the summer / autumn were gerrymandered and the returning officer is Chris McEleny a Salmond appointee - who owes his job and pay packet to Salmond
ReplyDeleteAlba have a membership and a structure they might do well with new leadership it’s a pity that can’t happen
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSeems Scott is so undecided after all. If it quacks….
Deletehttps://t.co/fWB9ncJdAr
ReplyDeleteOne point which I don't remember being made is that Alba's original raison d'etre seems to be on shaky ground. As James says, originally it was conceived as a list-only party. This was on the assumption that the SNP would sweep the constituencies and therefore any votes for them on the list were likely to be "wasted" and could therefore more usefully be lent to Alba for an independence super-majority.
ReplyDeleteWell, the way the polls are moving it is looking ever less likely that the SNP will be sweeping all the constituencies in 2026. If anything the SNP may well be dependent on a healthy list vote to get a decent number of MSPs.
In a Scotland in which a resurgent Labour is winning many constituencies, why should SNP members/voters consider lending their list votes to anyone else when their own party's fortunes will be critically dependent on them? This applies to the Greens as well as to Alba of course.
I know this is not the point of the topic in the blog but James do you have a view on the Reform UK vote share?
ReplyDeleteI just can't believe they are on 4% of the vote which makes me query the credibility of the poll.
I feel if it's that wrong how can we be sure anyone is up or down by 4-5%?
Abhainn
I'm in two minds about this but err more on James' side.
ReplyDeleteI think we're currently in a time of independence apathy within the general population towards independence and this is meaning the SNP just need to "hold on for dear life" in the hope that the next cycle brings about a second wind of enthusiasm.
On the other hand, I received a leaflet from Oswald in East ren and not even a mention of independence. SNP are somewhat to blame for the apathy: a poor strategy going to supreme court without a united front and courage to take it forward, whilst doing "something" which could be construed as corrupt taking the good name of the party to the gutter. Part of the attraction of independence and SNP was they did things better. They were fair.
A political party who pays their "CEO" more than 110k a year does not share my values. He's the admin, not the real leader of the business, like the party leader.
Why should they be rewarded?
If a party who actually believes in independence now as an urgent matter wants to put itself forward, we live in a democracy. We also can't be beholden to what the SNP are upto.
I'm very confused as to what the right thing is. They should save themselves to fight another day. But if SNP aren't living up to their commitments, then you can see why Alba feel they should stand.
Abhainn
The issue with the SNP is that they're failing on two fronts.
DeleteIn the past there were voters who didn't necessarily support independence but would still vote for the SNP anyway because they felt that they could run a competent Government and were a better option than the other parties.
The other element is that many used to vote SNP at every election because they had faith that the SNP would use electoral success to progress the cause of independence.
Now there's a feeling that they're not doing an effective job at either of those things. That's reflected in the polls as in the past the SNP polled higher than independence itself, whereas now support for the SNP is considerably lower than support for independence.
It's likely too late to change the outcome for the General Election but if the SNP wants to retain power at Holyrood in 2026 they'll have a lot of work to do to win people's support back & they're long overdue for a period of self reflection as to why they've lost so much support and members in the first place.
I hope that happens but I feel like people will just play the blame game instead and react with "How dare you not vote SNP!" rather than asking "How can we win your support back?"
My biggest issue with the SNP at the moment is that they're not even trying and are just attempting to blackmail the independence movement into voting for them by saying if the SNP loses independence is dead. That's not how you inspire people to vote for you!
Pull your trousers up and give your mouth a turn.There's a good chap.
DeleteScott makes valid points, and backs them up with verifiable stats. You actually confirm his point re the attitude within SNP with your infantile dismissal of his post. Answer his two points and grow up.
DeleteScott
DeleteI agree with a lot of what you say especially the two fronts.
I also do not, particularly, wish to to give ANY party a carte blanche to govern with a promise of "jam tomorrow".
It doesn't engender a good, competent govt if they feel they can always be in power due to independence support level artificially providing them a feeling of impunity in the day to day meaningful policies.
I don't like some things the SNP have done versus do we continue to lend them a vote to keep the independence dream alive. That is the question. I think enough voters are saying to themselves, independence has been neglected and not a policy under considerstion so they feel like they can give the SNP a kicking.
Abhainn
Anon6:23 Well said. Scott has made some excellent contributions to the debate recently and to be dismissed in such a contemptuous manner says more about his critic than it does Scott. Pathetic.
DeleteReply to Scott May 14 at 11.04pm
DeleteYou say: "It's likely too late to change the outcome for the General Election but if the SNP wants to retain power at Holyrood in 2026 they'll have a lot of work to do to win people's support back & they're long overdue for a period of self reflection as to why they've lost so much support and members in the first place."
You're assuming a bit complacently that after this GE things are somehow going to trot along business as usual with regard to Holyrood/Scottish Parliament. What guarantees do you have that they will?
Look at all those unionist characters, past and present, within and without Scotland writing all those articles and having all those meetings with think tanks and institutions about how they want to change how the Scottish Parliament works. You know that at any time at their leisure UKplc can completely change the purpose, the inner system and support or not for the devolved administrations - most particularly Holyrood which they are very concentrated on RIGHT NOW, BEFORE the upcoming GE.
You can spend as many more years as you like bleating that the SNP didn't on their own hand you independence on a silver platter and continue the simplistic irrational lazy trope that 'they're not even trying'. It suits unreliable self-interested narrators that one.
If the SNP have losses at the GE - which you and some others are wishing for to 'teach the SNP a lesson' - you are not configuring in that if the SNP have losses at the GE - UKplc are already totting up ways and means to re-calibrate the Scottish Parliament in their favour - and if they're smart, they would enact this immediately after this year's GE. Pay attention to all their 'ideas' being pushed out there already to reform the devolved administrations - with Holyrood of course being their 21st Century regurgitation of The Great Game modus operandi successful divide and rule winning strategy.
Nothing will move it along for them more is elements of the supposed Yes movement are intent on merely giving the SNP a major kicking also at this GE. That's how the Empire was forged and you know that old trope 'The reason the sun never set on the British Empire is because even God didn't trust them in the dark'. Well, the only place they can successfully revive any last vestage of the old Empire- is by tightly harnessing Holyrood - BEFORE 2026. If the SNP have losses at the GE - that's their instant trigger to declare Holyrood needs reformed in whatever image UKplc fancy - and you'd be naive to think they would wait until 2026 and just follow the expected usual schedule for a Holyrood election. Why do you think Labour, Tories and Lib-Dems are pushing for a Holyrood Election RIGHT NOW before 2026? Doh!
Assuming things in Scotland are going to carry on as they are now over the next few months in this GE year is for the birds. Don't rest easy that Holyrood will be 'our' Holyrood come 2026.
British Nationalist 64%
ReplyDeleteScottish Nationalist 36%
Just sorted that for you.
Some/many snp voters don't vote Yes.
DeleteSome/many labour voters don't vote No.
Some/many green voters don't vote Yes
Labour voters are the wooly middle.
Nevertheless it’s disappointing that the unionist share of the vote always seems to be considerably higher than the nationalist share in these polls.
DeleteIndependence supporters have moved to Labour or won't vote.
DeleteScott:
ReplyDeleteIf you don't mind me saying so, I believe you're much too negative about the SNP. They've achieved a lot while in government for the very poorest in our society and the marginalised groups and they are the only serious political party advocates for independence. If you're unhappy with SNP under Humza I'd recommend you give John Swinney a chance and take a fresh look at the SNP today. John Swinney deserves praise for his services towards Scotland down the years. John Swinney is a very promising leader and its only right that we give him a chance.
If Swinney is so great why did he foist Yousaf on the people of Scotland.
DeleteI do not know anyone who would question J S ‘s effort over the years, but that’s all the more reason to expect him to come out of the gate running with a process to advance Indy. Confrontation is going to come and he could start it by raising court proceedings over the clear conflict between the Good Friday Agreement and the Internal Market legislation. Scotland, and other parts of the U K are being treated in a discriminatory and unfair manner.
DeleteI have a few issues with John Swinney tbh. His last tenure as Party Leader wasn't exactly successful and it even forced Alex Salmond to come back to clean up his mess.
DeleteHe ruled himself out of the leadership election a year ago because he felt that the SNP needed a 'fresh perspective' to pursue their aims. I also agreed with Kate Forbes at the time that 'continuity won't cut it'. John Swinney is more of a continuity candidate than Humza Yousaf ever was.
The first thing he did as leader was keep 99% of Humza's Cabinet and say that the SNP wouldn't be changing their strategy for the General Election. It really comes across as 'more of the same' rather than using the opportunity to do things differently to win back the support the Party has lost.
There's been a lot of rhetoric about how Swinney can unite the Party but there's never been any self reflection or discussion with members about why it became disunited in the first place... you need to address a problem head-on in order to solve it and implement measures to prevent it from happening again.
In all discussions I've had with SNP supporters they previously said that the Party was united behind Humza Yousaf & there was a refusal to admit that internal divisions existed. Now they're saying "We all need to unite behind John Swinney" but doesn't that imply that the Party wasn't united behind Humza and if so why not? That needs addressed for wounds to heal.
Scott. A few polite rebuttals:
Delete"I have a few issues with John Swinney tbh. His last tenure as Party Leader wasn't exactly successful and it even forced Alex Salmond to come back to clean up his mess."
He is a different person now.
"He ruled himself out of the leadership election a year ago because he felt that the SNP needed a 'fresh perspective' to pursue their aims. I also agreed with Kate Forbes at the time that 'continuity won't cut it'. John Swinney is more of a continuity candidate than Humza Yousaf ever was."
John Swinney stated in his inaugural lecture that change would happen because he promised action on the economy and jobs:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-68964607
"The first thing he did as leader was keep 99% of Humza's Cabinet and say that the SNP wouldn't be changing their strategy for the General Election. It really comes across as 'more of the same' rather than using the opportunity to do things differently to win back the support the Party has lost."
He brought in Kate Forbes to be Deputy First Minister, a very important post to which role we can all expect Kate to bring energy and ability.
"There's been a lot of rhetoric about how Swinney can unite the Party but there's never been any self reflection or discussion with members about why it became disunited in the first place... you need to address a problem head-on in order to solve it and implement measures to prevent it from happening again."
The disunity was Kate Forbes not being in the cabinet so now that is resolved.
"In all discussions I've had with SNP supporters they previously said that the Party was united behind Humza Yousaf & there was a refusal to admit that internal divisions existed. Now they're saying "We all need to unite behind John Swinney" but doesn't that imply that the Party wasn't united behind Humza and if so why not? That needs addressed for wounds to heal."
Kate Forbes now in the Cabinet as previously stated.
Scott please stop the continual negativity which may be your view honestly held or you are intentionally undermining playing the part.
ReplyDeleteFor the first part, decide how you can get involved in the independence movement. If the second really you are just convincing long suffering supporters of independence like me to keep fighting. Not just as individuals but for our families and friends and country.We believe in Scotland would be better for all independent.
If he's convincing you to keep on fighting, what are you moaning about? Sounds more like you want to shut him up because you don't like what he has to say - typical of today's SNP.
DeleteMy negativity is mainly due to how pessimistic I am about the future atm.
DeleteIn my opinion the SNP are heading towards a massive electoral defeat in the General Election. No one with a straight face can say that things have been running smoothly in the Scottish Government or the SNP for the past year and looking at the polls the public have noticed as well.
John Swinney isn't looking likely to be able to do anything to prevent that fate even if he implemented radical changes today (which I sadly don't see as being likely). If anything I'm actually angry as there have been countless opportunities to change direction and to bring the wider independence movement together but they never happened.
I don't even want to imagine the bile and finger pointing that's going to happen after the General Election. The independence movement will be split further as one side would be blaming the other for not voting SNP and the other side will have a "I told you so" attitude. That won't be a good place to be heading into the Holyrood election in 2026.
I won't vote for independence because I saw John Swinney pick his nose once
ReplyDeleteIs this the new shallowness of the anti Scottish union supporter now?
Independence has nothing to do with any individual politician of any political party, it has to do with the freedom of our country and whatever politicians advocate that (except for the Salmond gang of course who've proven themselves as fakes)
Independence is about the people of Scotland, not the individual politician that represent doing that who when finished their service will move on
'Independence has nothing to do with any individual' - 'except Salmond of course'! 😆😆😆Top doublethink from a Sturgeon drone🤡
Delete“Independence is about the people of Scotland “
DeleteThe problem is the majority of the people of Scotland don’t want independence, never have and never will.
The issue is on one hand people say "Independence has nothing to do with any individual politician of any political party" but on the other hand say that we all need to get behind the SNP and support the First Minister.
DeleteWhich is it?
If you genuinely believe that it has nothing to do with any political party then you should be supporting the calls for a Constitutional Convention & multi-party cooperation (Both of which Alba have been calling for since Day 1 btw).
There is a massive disconnect in the polls between support for independence and support for the SNP. Denying the reality of the situation and pretending everything is fine helps no one & certainly doesn't move us any closer to independence.
Scott - so you’re a disgruntled Albanist. I understand your pain form last week that the king maker Regan shot herself in the foot supported by the tories and labour and then blamed the snp for her tardiness. Please note that the main disconnect with the polls and parties is that the 2% think they can dictate terms. They can’t. I think unintentionally the opposition party to snp have miscalculated.
DeleteWhat was it Ash Regan asked for you disagreed with? Was it the return to competent Governance or the greator focus on Scottish independence? Any supposed 'Party of Independence' shouldn't have had an issue with either of those things.
DeleteHumza Yousaf would still be the First Minister today and we'd likely be devising a more effective strategy for independence together but instead we've just returned to more of the same.
It's also worth pointing out that the Greens abstained on John Swinney's election as First Minister whereas Ash voted for him.
Scott: with the greatest of respect, the comment "return to competent government" was disrespectful as it indicates that the SNP government was not competent, with which the SNP would disagree, while "greater focus on independence" was disrespectful as it indicated that Humza was not focusing a great deal on independence, with which again the SNP would disagree.
DeleteAnon at 4:46, surely you can’t be serious in suggesting the SNP have been a competent government in recent years!
DeleteKC - at 3.05pm - still hanging around like a bad Britnat smell with your silly comments. " never will " says KC - a Britnat bampot who claims to know the future. Call the men in white coats to take KC away.
DeleteAh Ifs you’re back! Still spouting your nonsense.
DeleteYou still confident you can achieve your independence by the turn of the next century?
Unlike Britnat bampots like you I have never made any forecasts about the future of Scottish independence - so like most Britnat bampots you are telling lies. Call the men in white coats to take KC away.
DeleteAfter bucketloads of leaflets from the Tories and Labour saying only Tories or Labour can beat the SNP a leaflet from the SNP turns up in my house and what do we get " Only Kirsten can beat the Tories in East Renfrewshire". Just the same sort of dross as in the Labour and the Tory leaflets.
ReplyDeleteHow many personal achievements does Oswald list over the last 4.5 years - none.
What about SNP achievements over the last 4.5 years - none.
What about new SNP policies for the next 5 years - none.
How many times is independence mentioned - zero times.
She won't be getting my vote - a member of Sturgeon's gang and second top trougher at Westminster after Blowhard Blackford. She told me not to worry as Nicola would deliver independence. Now they don't even bother kidding on they have a secret plan for independence. They do, however, have an unused motor home sitting in a polis compound that some Murray minion tries to sell the line on here that it was bought for campaigning but somehow wisnae then needed. They really think the SNP members are numpties that will believe any rubbish.
Kirsten Oswald deserves praise for having done a good job as the MP for East Renfrewshire: human rights, support for veterans, gender equality, LGBTQ+ rights, fighting climate change, are all front and centre of her work.
DeleteIndependence?
DeleteAnon at 7.35pm - pity she never had the belief to list her achievements in her own election leaflet. Where did she find the time to work on what you said in your post after all the Westminster troughing. The truth is she achieved nothing worthwhile just like the other MPs at Westminster. I voted for Scottish independence not gender stuff.
DeleteAnon is an alphabet soup fanatic. They make the same comment regularly with scarcely a reference to independence. I thought they were all leaving for the Greens because of Kate Forbes but their desire to hijack the SNP for their gender nonsense came first apparently.
Delete