Sunday, April 21, 2024

The case against a small political party treating its own members as the enemy

As regular readers will remember, I was elected at the start of the year to a working group which is reviewing the Alba Party's constitution.  For confidentiality reasons I can't give a running commentary on the progress of that, but obviously having been involved in the process for a few weeks, I've become much more exposed to the main arguments against having a fully-fledged internal party democracy.  In view of that, I think it might be helpful to post an updated version of my own arguments in favour of democratisation, because ultimately it's rank-and-file members who will decide what happens.

First of all, a party which regards its own members with extreme suspicion and constantly tries to work out how to 'protect itself' from them is not in a good place.  What actually is a political party if not its members?  I suppose the alternative conception of a party is as a vehicle for a self-selecting leadership elite who may take members along for the ride but will never cede any real control to them.  That would be analagous to the way in which the powers of the House of Lords were previously used to protect the aristocracy from the voting masses.  It might be fine if the project a party represents is inspiring enough that people are willing to join simply to be part of a passive fan club, but my guess is that if Alba is to thrive, both existing members and potential new members will be looking for a lot more than that.  The problem is that Alba is mainly seeking converts from the SNP, and the obvious question is why would anyone leave a large party of power, one that denies its members much of a say, to join a much smaller party that also denies its members much of a say?  Where is the incentive?  Wouldn't you just think you might as well stick with the larger party which is actually in government?

There's also a really striking paradox in simultaneously saying that the leader should be trusted but the members should not be (because they might be a bunch of filthy infilitrators or whatever).  If you to try to protect the party from its own members (which again I think is a contradiction in terms) by substituting internal democracy with a system of patronage and leadership control, you're then putting all your eggs in one basket, because you're forgetting that the party leader himself is directly elected by precisely those awful members who you regard with such suspicion.  If the members are potential infiltrators who can't be trusted to elect the NEC or other committees, there clearly must be a fair chance that they will install an interloper as leader - and then having spurned the opportunity to introduce a democratic system of checks and balances, you'll be powerless to resist the absolute control of that one person.  That's exactly how the Sturgeon leadership of the SNP, once it had its feet under the table, was able to essentially ditch independence and replace it with an identity politics agenda.

It also does matter whether all party members are allowed to take decisions or only a tiny minority of members.  Alba's Conference Committee is an extremely powerful committee acting as a veto on issues reaching the floor of conference, which is supposed to be the body through which members exercise supreme control over the party.  In other words, members can only exercise control over the party via conference if they first have control over the Conference Committee - and they don't. The idea that party members are somehow in control of the Conference Committee because everyone on the Conference Committee is a party member is a bit like saying the system of rotten boroughs empowered the populace because the tiny number of people who could vote in them were all citizens.

Given its massive gatekeeping power, the case for the Conference Committee being directly elected by all party members is overwhelming. And any political party which uses its disciplinary machinery to suppress dissent among members must give members direct control over the composition of the committees which make the decisions on disciplinary matters.  That seems to me to be an indispensable safeguard, and without it individual members are helpless to protect themselves from arbitrary ill-treatment at the hands of an over-powerful leadership.

Last but not least, I never cease to be astounded that in the 21st Century people are still making the argument that the franchise for internal party elections should be restricted to a tiny minority of knowledgeable or experienced members, on the grounds that the wrong people will be elected otherwise.  That's essentially identical to arguing that the vast bulk of the public are too stupid or uneducated to be allowed to vote in general elections.  Nobody would ever dream of making that argument about elections to public office, so why it suddenly becomes OK in the context of the internal structures of a political party is beyond me.

113 comments:

  1. Alba looks like being just another SNP: a party of professional politicians more concerned with garnering power than acting on ideals like independence for Scotland. I expect the upcoming conference will be fixated with power structure rather than open to ideas like abstentionism. Alba will be just another Scottish party in thrall of Westminster.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. But without the presence *at* Westminster. And I don’t mean abstentionism. The chances of Alba retaining a seat aren’t good at all with the SNP running against them.

      Delete
  2. James - the way that you've described the Alba leadership in relation to their wish to control the franchise on internal party elections is more than reminiscent of how the Communist Party (CP) indirectly controlled several trade unions in Britain back in the day. It was also - again back in the day - how the CP indirectly exercised control over the Labour Party. What you've described will be easily recognised by trade union activists of my generation as the practice of people whom we described as Stalinists.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I think it is in human nature. The behaviours illustrated can apply to a bowling or golf club to a football supporters club. There be some who say , we were here first and therefore our votes count more, to the distrust of new members as possible troublemakers and such like. Relying on one leader risks the question of what happens when they are gone? Think of Tommy Sheridan and co and they had MSP’s elected. An important component is a good and trusted constitution as one part and of course individuals willing to submit to its rules and having the good sense to change bad ones.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Did the SSP really set a foot wrong once Tommy’s private life hit the headlines and he left the party? The voters soured on him for the lurid allegations against him and punished his (now former) party with the flatline 1% its had ever since.

      That’s the problem with a star leader: you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Sheridan gave them star power and led them with great success from 1999 to their popular breakthrough in 2003. But as soon as he was tainted, there was no one else at home as far as the public were concerned.

      Both the SSP and Tommy’s vehicles since have remained stuck in the weeds. They had their chance and blew it.

      Delete
  4. When I read the headline, I honestly thought you were writing about the Greens!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I thought you were talking about the Scottish Green Party, James, and I'm a member. We have, on paper, a democratic structure and used to be a democratic party. But the situation is and has been for the last 3 years at least, that a tiny number of people with a special interest effectively control the party.

      On the 7th of April there was a remote EGM which had been planned to consider some Constitutional motions left over from a previous EGM dealing with overspill from Conference. EGM in this case stands for Extraordinary General Meeting but at some stage it became Emergency General Meeting, I don't know why. New motions were also slipped in, further tightening party discipline.

      The rules say such a meeting can be called by 100 members or 10% of the membership, whichever is lower, and is quorate with 50 members or 5%. Our membership is I think around 7500 or used to be, so the roughly 80 people who attended on the 7th were around 1% of the membership.

      All of the motions which passed further tightened the grip of the ruling faction, and the only motion which failed was an attempt to rename the Conduct and Complaints Committee, as the Conduct Complaints and Conciliation Committee. It was taken last, after a "tea break" of 12 minutes in what was an hour long meeting.

      One might wonder why an hour long remote meeting needed two tea breaks, of 5 minutes and 12 minutes, during the proceedings, but a suspicious person might think that short little sub-meetings were taking place without everyone present. This is a democratic shortcoming of remote meetings, because in an in-person meeting it would be obvious if some people kept leaving to go into a huddle in another room during a meeting.

      Thus 1% of the membership can pass binding constitutional resolutions of which the main membership is blissfully unaware. This happened in autumn 2018 with an "Emergency" motion on Transpositivity.

      I suspect that the SNP is in a similar state: such are the times we live in.

      Delete
    2. Superb comment! And a terrible indictment on our political process.

      The small and organised can ruin life for the lot of us. This really has to be undone and the door firmly shut. Democracy is MAJORITY rule, within and outside political parties.

      Delete
  5. The problem is, it can become undemocratic to give party members too much say. It doesn't apply to Alba yet, but any party which aspires to government has to assign greater weight to the electorate which would vote them in.

    We've seen ample examples of this in recent years. Starmer pledged a whole bunch to his party membership, then abandoned them all - and Labour rides high in the polls. Truss gave her membership what they demanded - and the electorate abandoned the Tories. Even now, Scottish Greens are about to send national policy one way or another on the basis of their party membership's decision.

    Whatever you think about the decisions themselves, it's dangerous. Overly democratising a party gives its annual conference the power to overrule the electorate's decisions. Worse yet, an open membership allows any old chunk of that electorate to rush a party in majoritarian numbers. Your initial pool of 5,000 left-leaning social democrats becomes overruled by an expanded pool of 15,000 which now leans far right because 10,000 fascists saw an opportunity to seize a party of government by the back door.

    Indeed, the SNP provides an example of this sort of thing as its party membership expanded sixfold at the end of its second term in government when it was expected to storm into a third. However impressive it was, it has to be borne in mind that the SNP's membership has never exceeded 5% of votes cast in an election. For other parties, the number is far smaller.

    How much power do you actually want party memberships to have over their parties?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That kind of argument may have some ugly persuasiveness to it in a large party which is on the brink of power ("yes, Keir Starmer is Pol Pot, but put up with it and think of the POWER!") but in a small party which is still trying to secure its own future existence, it just doesn't work. You either chill out and empower the members, or the members will think "God, this is pointless", find somewhere else to go, and then you won't have a party left.

      Delete
    2. Was that ever a problem for UKIP though? Let alone the Tories themselves? I don’t think the assumption that the only appealing political parties are internally democratic ones actually stands examination. We like to think it does but often reality contradicts our preference.

      Delete
    3. Alba is not, at least not yet, proving to be a party that storms to electoral success in the absence of internal democracy. And you're also neglecting the key point I made in the blogpost that a party that concentrates power in the leader is actually more vulnerable, not less, to "infiltrators", because the members elect the leader, and if they install an interloper, you'll be left with no checks and balances to restrict that person's power.

      Delete
    4. @7:57 and Topher.

      That explains very nicely what happened to the Greens. A real pity. From 1999 through 2017 or so, they were my first choice party. Absolutely right on the global climate crisis and soundly of the social democratic left with land reform the absolute key to enacting change.

      Then they expelled Andy Wightman and revealed themselves to be puritan prigs about a topic that came out of nowhere, yet sent Nicola out to march when she never once did for us. WTF? What’s going on here? I was stunned, and then they pounced on Salmond.

      No wonder “the Indy movement is divided” as a result. Good grief! We absolutely must right all this and return the parties of independence to the Yes grassroots. And, seriously, internal democracy via Zoom must also end. It sounds like Stalin’s wildest dream!

      Delete
    5. @James

      A party which elects a hostile leader is in deep trouble, whatever the case. Labour’s in that position now. Once Starmer’s in government all remaining hope that he’s simply talking the Tories talk will vanish in an orgy of unrest. Most members of the Labour Party aren’t in fact neoliberal conservatives and didn’t devote their political lives to assisting the enemy. I can see it going very badly wrong for him in record speed. Well, compared to Blair if not Liz Kamikaze Truss!

      A party should be empowered to eject its leader, that’s for sure. Labour’s terrible at that. But we really have seen the worst of Trotskyite-like entryism in the Greens and SNP. Seriously, who ten years ago would think the overriding divide in Scottish politics would be about gender ID? A divide far stronger for the Greens now than over the Union. There’s something so deeply wrong here it’s beyond absurd: it’s engineered. We’ve been swindled out of our own parties.

      Delete
    6. My point is, you can't wait for the "brink of power" to sort these issues out. In a FPTP system, a party which enters the opposition generally has an opportunity to tighten up its rules in anticipation of entering government with a subsequent election.

      But we've got a more proportional parliament, where insurgent parties could go from zero seats to junior government partner. Don't forget that was one of Alba's aims in 2021. Suppose the SNP had won 55 seats, the Greens 9 and Alba 6. The same membership you're trying to empower now would be, well, in power.

      Except it wouldn't be the same membership. If Alba had won seats in 2021, it would have seen far more people join up. You don't know if they would have been more of the same or something bizarre like every cannibal in Scotland joining up.

      Delete
    7. Anonoymous OP,

      I agree. A 100% democraticed party for every decision does have the disadvantage of skewing policy away from the wider electorate who support the parties main aims. It also has the potential to be taken over by bad elements.

      There absolutely needs to be check on the leader, a way to remove if the members are unhappy. This existing and allowing leaders to get on with the job generally can co-exist.

      Abhainn

      Delete
    8. We can go around this all day. I'm not saying the leadership should have all the power, but I AM saying that the membership can't have it all either.

      How to balance those things are among the hardest questions in politics.

      Delete
    9. Abhainn: Your subtext is clearly that proper internal democracy is inconsistent with "leaders being allowed to get on with the job". What absolute rubbish. The US constitution is full of checks and balances, which among other things constrain the powers of the President. Do you see holders of that office struggling to "get on with the job"? Of course not.

      Delete
    10. James,

      I don't disagree with that about the US president. I don't really understand US politics though so I can't really say much about it, their parties seem to be a mish mash of caucuses rather than a coherent political party like in Europe. I'm thinking more about internal party machinations rather than government constitutions.

      I basically agree with the comment above yours, Anonymous 12.40, that it's getting the balance right.

      I absolutely agree Leaders must be accountable; by that able to be removed by the members. I also agree a disciplinary body must have power to do its job. This seems to be the subtext around this debate, I don't know?

      Put it this way, I don't think the SNP should have had to go to members to ask about dropping the climate change target (I have no strong feelings on it either way). They should be able to make those decisions and then they are accountable at conferences and the wider electorate.

      Or in Alba's case, the leadership makes a decision on EFTA. If enough people think it is the wrong decision, they can make intimations to change it and voted on at conference. Leadership though has final say. However, if the members don't like it, they can propose a motion to remove the leadership.

      There will be lots of ways of doing it but I basically agree with getting a balance.

      I'm thinking out loud here, sorry for brain dump.

      Abhainn

      Delete
  6. Leadership positions flatter the self indulgent egos of those who hold them. Political parties reflect the behaviour traits of the societies that produce them.
    The struggle for the independence of Scotland is riven with tensions between it's revolutionary aim and the vaguely liberal modes of thinking with which the huge majority of us have been brought up and have lived all of our lives.
    Personally, after fifty years as an activist, I've decided that political parties are crap more or less by their nature.
    The problem is just a little less acute in non party, campaigning organisations. Maybe concentrating our efforts through non party groups offers some way forward ? Build the movement and let the 'suits' come to us for support rather than fawning around them and further inflating their already ample regard for their own importance ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The suits would never trust us with anything important. We would be regarded as a rival power base to be contained and undermined. Yet we would have no route to power because the electorate wouldn’t have us on the ballot.

      No no no. The SNP’s already there. Better to use it, the party completely synonymous to everyone, no matter how disengaged, with Scottish independence.

      Delete
  7. I wish James all the best in Alba but I wouldn't be surprised if by November he was out of the party and back supporting SNP.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It’s got to be rough being on the inside when your party leaves you. All of us know what it’s like to be abandoned by the wayward SNP, but who among us was there on the committees when it went so wrong?

      Delete
  8. Each pro Indy party wants independence, even the SNP despite what some would have us believe. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.
    The problem is the pro Indy vote is going to be split at the GE and Holyrood election, as things stand. We need one Nationalist party, united, fighting for independence. We’re getting nowhere at the moment, in fact if anything we’re going backwards.
    Despite all the problems, support for independence remains steady at around 50%, but this could be higher, and obviously needs to be higher.
    I do worry if things don’t change soon, support could slip. Hopefully the pathetic turn out at the march and rally in Glasgow at the weekend isn’t a sign of things to come.
    The time has come for pro independence parties and supporters to get their act together, stop the fighting and arguing, and move forward as one, before it’s too late.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. > Hopefully the pathetic turn out at the march and rally in Glasgow at the weekend isn’t a sign of things to come.

      It is. The polls said it’s coming and the ghost of the Yes movement backed it up. Things are going to get bad. You’re just going to have to get used to it under this leadership.

      Delete
    2. Jeff,

      The problem is the Indy vote is unenthusedand does not believe this is an Indy-centric election. I don't think Alba or the greens are really splitting any vote. The unenthused Yes supporters are going to Unionist parties, not Yes parties. Precisely because they've made a judgement, correctly, independence is currently not of the cards.

      Abhainn

      Delete
    3. Good Lord, a political psychic who knows all sees all

      Delete
    4. Psychic? No, sorry to disappoint you, we mortals just read the polls.

      Ask around. See if you can find anyone in the real world who doesn’t expect a mauling for the SNP. It’s a foregone conclusion, precisely because they took independence off the table and left themselves to be judged on their record.

      Election drubbings aren’t made in a day. It’s years of mounting mistakes that will get you.

      Delete
    5. Jeff, you say ludicrous. When people want something they actually do something to achieve it . So no it is not ludicrous as the SNP have made many promises of a referendum and delivered nothing. You have a habit of making general assertions but never explain your reasons.

      Delete
    6. One party, fighting for independence, by DOING NOTHING about it. Aye, that's exactly what we need. Why haven't we tried that already?

      Delete
  9. I've removed a comment, and hopefully the person who posted it will understand why! The topic was just too sensitive.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unfortunate. I was going to post about my Alba experience with a member of the Conference Committee, related to Salmond. But McEleny has threatened to use members' money to sue me on behalf of the individual. So perhaps here is not the place.

      Delete
  10. What political party has ever been successful and has full member participation in its every day policies? I'd like to know what the benchmark is here?

    I think I disagree with the premise parties must be fully, with a capital F, democracised within it. I think the primary democracy is the electorate. There should be a means to remove leaders who are not successful and there should be leadership manifestos, in a sense, voted on by the members. But the leaders need to be able to lead. If they don't keep to their broad manifesto commitments, this can be brought up by conference and a challenge put. I don't like the idea of leadership being tied down though.

    I see no reason why this should be any different for a smaller party or one on the brink of power.

    I also do not believe people many joined Alba for votes on minor policy. They want independence and see Salmond as a good leader.

    Abhainn

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. To add though, I do not see any reason why positions should be restricted to conference attendees though. I also agree disciplinary committess need the teeth to do their jobs.


      Abhainn

      Delete
    2. I think the big parties are too democratic in the sense that it would be better if they chose their leaders based on a poll of MPs or MSPs and maybe councillors, but I tend to think membership is bad at these choices.

      James may be right that things are different for small parties - indeed such parties may often not have MPs or MSPs.

      Delete
    3. The post 11.22 was by me Derek not by Abhainn

      Delete
    4. I think the crucial thing is no *small* self-selected in-group should be able to make up policy and (especially) rules on the fly, as they see fit. What I’m really talking about is disruptive infiltrators like the trans activists who have hijacked and devastated the Scottish Greens. But it also applies to the leadership themselves, who must ultimately be accountable to the whole party membership who can remove them if the majority sees fit.

      Micromanaging policy is the leadership’s job. No credible politician can answer every journalist’s question with “I must consult my with party first”. But the broad thrust of policy and ideology must lie in the mass membership’s hands. Absolutely not small, exclusive committees.

      Delete
    5. Anonymous at 11.31,

      Good post. I suppose it comes down to how to get the "broad thrust" in their hands. I would suggest a leadership accountable to members for their position is the best way.

      Abhainn

      Delete
    6. "I also do not believe people many joined Alba for votes on minor policy."

      No idea whether that's true or not, but they certainly expected a say on major policy.

      Delete
  11. I wouldn't choose to be a Leader of a party whose members could change major policy on a whim. Similarly, I wouldn't join a party whose Leader calls all the shots for eternity and cannot be sacked. There must be some happy medium.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. In Ireland, Sinn Féin adopts a leadership-led approach. They have never had a leadership election since the split of the party from the official IRA in the 1970s.

      Delete
    2. "whose members could change major policy on a whim"

      On a whim? You mean out of sincere belief, surely?

      Delete
    3. "In Ireland, Sinn Féin adopts a leadership-led approach."

      Yes, I was thinking only yesterday about Sinn Fein's approach of democratic centralism. No idea what put that in my head.

      Delete
    4. Id like to see process maps or flows to understand what internal democracy looks like on a practical level.

      Members should be able to make their views known
      Binding on leadership?
      When can they change policy?
      How is a motion made?
      What constitutes a member vote, an email, how many votes needed?
      Can a leadership team take a decision it believes is for the good of the party?
      How is a leader held to account?

      Etc etc

      You want a system which allows people to make solid options open to a party so new ideas can come through, without it undermining a coherent approach before it's had a chance to bloom, whilst keeping leaders in check, whilst giving leaders freedom to tackle big issues in an agile manner.

      It's not easy.

      Delete
    5. And all while avoiding handing the hostile media a painfully easy narrative of “party split over XYZ” story when you’re close enough to power to attract their attention.

      Delete
    6. How close to power are Alba?

      Delete
    7. How much has the SNP's power achieved for Scotland? All the accomplishments I can think of were before Nicola's watch. Besides the Baby Box.

      Delete
    8. child benefit payment
      vastly increased childcare
      council tax freeze
      rent controls
      increased subsidised travel for young people
      scotrail into public ownership

      off the top of my head have been since Nicola was leader.

      The childcare one has particularly helped my family, as has the travel.

      Abhainn

      Delete
    9. My council tax and rent have both gone up in April by a combined total of over £50!

      Delete
  12. "No idea what put that in my head."- JK My sarcasm antenna are buzzing.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sorry. Didnae read Harry Potter.

      Delete
    2. JK being the author of this blog.

      Delete
  13. Because Alba is so much built around a particular very famous person it seems an uphill task to have a democratic party.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thankfully the SNP was never under such a cult of personality …

      Delete
    2. The SNP does have similar problems although it has a long history of electing new leaders.

      Delete
    3. *One* of which ever attempted to gain us independence, and very almost succeeded.

      Delete
    4. Anon 3:30. “Alba’s cult of personality is okay because the SNP had one too” is not the take you think it is.

      I’m starting to realise it was only the *personality* part of “cult of personality” that many Alba supporters disagreed with.

      No wonder members like James face such an uphill battle.

      Delete
  14. “It probably hasn’t properly dawned on the SNP yet but it is very likely going to have to go through a process of de-Nicola-fying. I would advise them to be ready to shred photos and leaflets and delete pictures and references.
    It isn’t enough. At the end of this (or sooner) there needs to a purge both symbolic and instrumental.”

    A good piece by Robin McAlpine and a lot to chew on.

    https://robinmcalpine.org/nic-transit-gloria-mundi/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, Robin.

      Delete
    2. I chew ginger snaps. I enjoy them when they aren't as crispy as when you first buy them but j do really recommend licorice sweets like you get in licorice allsorts. Yummy yummy yummy.

      Delete
    3. Nicola Sturgeon released a picture of her and some pals at a ladies football match and within minutes half of Scotland was sending her best wishes and big red hearts
      Aye the SNP need to purge the biggest asset they and Scotland have ever had

      Delete
    4. Half of Scotland😂Pity she couldn't get half of Scotland to vote for her.

      Delete
    5. Never mind red hearts, she's going to need a cake with a file in it soon.

      Delete
    6. I posted the link, and I’m not Robin McAlpine, honest. 😉

      He does go on a bit but I quite agree with the need to move past Nicola and disown her, as they (much more unfairly) did to Salmond when the media made a criminal out of him. James made a similar point here a few posts back. It's time to turn the page.

      Well, if it takes an election drubbing for them to resign themselves to it, so be it.

      Delete
    7. The place is full of unionists and bitter Alba

      Delete
    8. And you too, bitter bitter Dr. Jim. You're always welcome.

      Delete
  15. Robin….. hells bells. Please don’t anymore of his blog ramblings on again

    ReplyDelete
  16. SNP now doing better in polling so negative comments above by McAlpine about Humza's leadership are simply inaccurate.

    Only by voting SNP can a better Scotland be brought in.

    Louise Perry

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Better how? How does more of the same achieve anything?

      Delete
    2. It remind us of that story about Captain Birdseye, Dermott O'Leary and a packet of gypsy creams.

      Delete
  17. Yes. Seems YI2 and IIS are away on hols together mulling over this fact.

    ReplyDelete
  18. OT - from the National:

    "Europe's largest floating wind farm approved off Aberdeenshire coast"

    What could possibly go wrong?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aha! So the SNP do have a secret plan after all.

      "The wind farm will have up to 35 turbines"

      Another 999999 of these floating farms, hitch them up to Scotland and Scotland leaves the UK in style. Where shall we go?

      Delete
  19. This is why so many activists have left Alba.
    The worst thing was a made up dossier. Salmond made up stories that members had been plotting to disrupt conference and had been abusing his family.
    He at no point provided any evidence of this.
    But he got a black folder and waved it around at conference - laughably claiming he had been sent it in the post.
    It was a massive distraction as he was cancelling the result of an election because the wrong people won.
    That’s what trusting a leader does - you sit there and clap while the leader sets aside the wishes of the membership.
    The dossier was later used to smear people they wanted to bully out.
    Members spent a lot of time submitting constitutional amendments which were all rejected by the conference committee
    The conduct committee consists of three relatives of Salmond or people that work for Alba
    The vetting committee is appointed by the general secretary who is appointed by Salmond
    I could go on
    Alba are not a serious political party they are a vehicle for Salmond and a clique around him
    And Salmond is what his opponents say about him
    It’s crushingly sad but true

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aye. I had higher hopes for them as well, but not any more.

      Delete
  20. For what it's worth, I have always wished political parties were administered by a group of specialist erudite individuals, academics, poets, medical practitioners, visionaries, and at least one a well versed constitutional lawyer among them, but the public tell us they much prefer a single charismatic leader, and probably always will.

    The electorate are drawn to good orators, people of ideas, who offer hope and progress, practical solutions, not angst and fear. Especially liked are those with a comprehensive knowledge of their country's history and traditions. Todate, in Scotland, there is no one with more UK - Scots and English - parliamentary experience than Alex Salmond. He has always used his acute knowledge to great affect for the betterment of Scots. Hard to see why anyone would want to portray him as some sort of buccaneer.

    As for the denunciations of 'Anonymous' - too craven to offer their real name - there's always a someone around to tell it better. In this case, they carry a spittoon with plenty of phlegm to loosen. (I guarantee I'lm next for the character assassination, if I read his or her nasty muddled tone correctly.) They insult Salmonds' respected MP colleagues as if they have no scruples, they just hang around Salmond for the craic. In the eyes of embittered Anonymous, (emphasis is on 'mouse') they imply Salmond's most respected peers love him for being a washed up Machiavellian.

    Aye, that'll be right.

    All new parties have a component of unhappy individuals, infiltrators and malcontents. (Study Jim Sillar's disaster of a socialist party.) Some leave early because they can't shape the party to their ideal image, some think it a copy of the party they left and want something fresh and sharp, and some leave noisily and very publicly to get attention for their anger and ambitions. But they can't deny the core strength lies with the the leader and those around the person who has taken the greatest risk to dare challenge the status quo.

    If people feel unable to show maturity in action, they are free to take their chances. I for one wish them well, only please do it without deploying a scorched earth attitude to past colleagues and all you praised yesterday. Go without wailing and moaning and chest beating. Scotland is in peril. We have no time for wet nursing.

    Use your energies for the common good, not for the destruction of hope.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It might work if Salmond was delivering results but he is not . His latest case against the SNP will only make him more unpopular with the SNP voters. A leader who is winning might get away with being a controlling bully but not one that has delivered no success

      Delete
    2. Hectoring McTaggartApril 23, 2024 at 8:28 AM

      Are Anonymous at 1.05 and Anonymous at 1.34 the same Anonymous?

      Delete
    3. I’m a different anon, so I dinnae ken either. They both make good points though. Quite on topic for James’s post, too.

      Fundamentally: what point is there in a small party with all of the bullying habits of a large one? Who does it appeal to?

      Delete
    4. "I’m a different anon, so I dinnae ken either. They both make good points though. "

      Make good points? Don't kid yourself. Your assertions are slurs, and you can't construct a decent sentence.

      Delete
    5. Grouse Beater has asked me to identify him as Anon at 1.05am.

      Delete
    6. Grouse beater,

      Here, here

      Abhainn

      Delete
  21. A slimy snaky comment btl in the National on the Alba article:

    "Alba failed to take a single vote from the SNP in 2021 (SNP vote went up on 2016, even with Alba on the ballot), and are no further forward 3 years on."

    Dear me. Alba didn't stand for any constituency in 2021 where the SNP vote went up 1.2% from 2016 - 46.5% to 47.7%.

    On the regional the SNP went DOWN 1.4% from 41.7% in 2016 to 40.3%. Alba got 1.7% in 2021 (didn't exist in 2016).

    Alba the latest poll (R&W) are 3% on the regional.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is why you shouldn't just consider percentages. The SNP's list vote in 2016 was 953,587. Its list vote in 2021 was 1,094,374.

      Overall turnout increased from 56% to 64%. About 430 thousand voters who had never voted in a Holyrood election turned up.

      Delete
  22. If Alba did indeed 'fail to take a single vote from the SNP in 2021' , then what are all those on here moaning about splitting the vote worried about?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It wouldn’t take too many voters switching from the SNP to Alba, to hand certain seats to Labour or another unionist party.
      This is potentially a big problem, but a lot don’t seem to be grasping it.

      Delete
    2. Too wee. Too niche. Too dangerous!

      I was an SNP to Alba switcher in 2021, btw. Can’t say I’ll be switching back now, even without Alba on the short FPTP WM ballot.

      Delete
    3. Anon8:34 Read it again. We're told they didn't gain a SINGLE vote from the SNP whose vote actually increased, so what's the problem?

      Delete
    4. Some of those are strategically-minded Alba supporters who recognise that if the number of Alba votes is greater than the SNP's margin of defeat, Alba is going to be credibly blamed for handing those seats to Labour.

      That is not a strong position going into the 2026 election. If Holyrood seats cannot be won at that election, then that's it. I realise stubborn people will keep trying, but aside from a Westminster snap election at a time of Starmer's choosing, the next realistic opportunity to break through becomes 2031.

      Focus on 2026 because if Yes doesn't win it, everything gets pushed off into the mid-thirties.

      Delete
    5. If the SNP have pissed off enough people to make them defect to Alba come election time, that's the fault of the SNP. As others have said here before, the SNP doesn't own our votes, they have to be earned and ten years of inertia under Sturgeon and now Humza isn't going to do it.

      Delete
  23. Just look at the level of discussion on this thread. The strategy for independence debate is key for our future but after a few thought through points largely settles into yet another tatty little row about Sturgeon/Salmond, SNP/Alba.
    Build the movement through non party groups and force our worthless political parties to come to us for support. Can't be done overnight but offers a way forward in a way that our deadhead parties seem to be incapable of.
    (NOT a critisism of this blog which does good work. It's the dead end that politicians have 'led' us into that is strangling constructive discussion.)

    ReplyDelete
  24. Odd how many of the random members/interlopers were founder members.

    Odd how many of the random members were women.

    Odd how many of them attended Wee Alba Book campaigns and were seen actively canvassing for ALBA - indeed , some were approved candidates.

    Bizarre the General Secretary has decided he - and he alone - has the power to use the Discipline Committee.

    Incomprehensible how a certain favoured few of the Executive and employees are granted carte blanche to get away with egregious comments against ALBA policy.

    Interesting that a nepotistic claque appears to "pile on" members who are unfavoured, see McAlpine's blog.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Article headline in today’s Herald by respected journalist and fellow independence supporter Neil MacKay,

    “Nothing can save the SNP now, but Indy can still be salvaged “

    ReplyDelete
  26. I think you have to be a fanatic to clap for the SNP because they are in favour of Scottish independence. Nicola Sturgeon's husband has been charged with embezzling SNP funds. There's no get-out of that. People are waiting outside hospitals in ambulances for 8 hours. The people who were ultimately responsibe were Nocola Sturgeon and Humza Yousaf. No get-out. They have been tragically incompetent for years and years. The list of failures is lengthy. 'We are in favour of independence' isn't an excuse for voting for them. And further to the Slater/Harvie show, I can't vote for the Greens either, and I'm really not interested in the Alex Salmond Fan Club Party.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's because you're a unionist.

      Delete
  27. NHS in England run by tories worse, NHS in Wales run by Labour worse, Northern Ireland worse still. The Brit nats side with the right wing Israel government who bomb innocent civilians and aid workers - while the RAF look on. Mone and her cronies living in tax avoidance areas but are rewarded by knighthoods and such like. Up to Ukraine war Russian oligarchs welcomed to the Tory fundraising parties and a few got Brit passports , Johnson , sunak , Truss, Clegg, Blair ( wmd’s , do exist) Brown and Darling all Brit nats ruining millions of lives with their financial incompetence and wars. Starmer is now a brexiters. 62% of Scots said they wish to remain in EU. England said No . Don’t say we don’t need independence.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unionist found. A true supporter of Scottish Independence would NEVER....I say again... NEVER publish a post such as Anon 12-24pm.

      Delete
  28. 1224, Just a wind up merchant. He might get a shock come the GE. Defending Westminster is hardly a good starting position be it Rwanda policy, jailing PO managers, racist metropolitan police, Brexit based on little englander syndrome…

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Not a wind up merchant at all. Just telling the truth, something Nats don’t like hearing.
      The SNP SG can’t even build 2 ferries for God’s sake. Independence is a nonsense, and if there was ever going to be a majority in favour of the lunacy it would have happened before now, Years of the Tories plus Brexit but still no majority in favour. Give up on the nonsense for pity’s sake!

      Delete
    2. Have you done any study of anything about Scotland, or are out of work, looking to do more than doodle inane base opinion?

      Delete
    3. Try telling that to the Irish. My goodness why did they want oot? An noo they're clammering to get back tae mother England. Aye right.

      Delete
  29. 302pm

    . When you say Nat ? Is that the Brexit little englander type. Insular, racist type or the outgoing inclusive type of person found in most other nations?

    ReplyDelete
  30. Incidentally the 2 ferries are built , one finishing of its sea trials currently. How’s the high speed train to the north…….. eh Birmingham…England.. For the price of HS2 hundred + ferries could have been built. Now covid masks that didn’t meet standards……. Aircraft carriers -without enough aircraft….

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The ferries are Scotland’s shame. The contract was awarded to Fergusons at Port Glasgow by Sturgeon and the SNP SG in an attempt to make political gain, which has of course backfired on them so spectacularly.
      For the sake of this country these charlatans need to be booted out of government in 2026. Just a pity we have to suffer them for another 2 years, got knows how much more damage they’ll do before then.

      Delete
    2. “Incidentally the 2 ferries are built” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
      The Glen Sannox was launched by Sturgeon in Nov ‘17 and still isn’t in service!!
      Little wonder the launch of Glen Rosa was a lower key event!!

      Delete
    3. What does sea trials mean? The choo choo can’t even get to Manchester

      Delete
    4. Apparently Sturgeon is going to be aboard Glen Sannox when she makes her maiden trip.
      We just don’t know when this momentous event will take place.
      Maybe the first ferry being built in Turkey will be in service first. What an embarrassment that would be!

      Delete
    5. At least those ferries are built and hundreds of jobs created and saved, unlike England's Brexit ferries that never existed, or the thousands of immigrants on their way to Rwanda that aren't, or the HS2 that never will be
      There are many many more examples of what cost Scotland a lot more money to pay for England rule
      We could list a whole lot more that Sturgeon delivered that people like you choose to ignore

      Delete
    6. Anon at 9:12, If you somehow think Scotland would be better off independent you live in cloud cuckoo land.
      If there’s ever another referendum, nationalists will no doubt make a great deal of noise, but the silent majority will vote to remain in this great union. You live in complete denial if you think different.

      Delete
    7. Great Union that barely reaches 50% support? Neither independence or union are particularly the settled will buddy.

      Delete
  31. So not ashamed about the racism against refugees? Ashamed about the cash for peerages? Sookin up to the Russian henchmen. Unelected lords and the rest.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Good news: Rule Britannia is going to be preformed at last night of the proms after all . Wonderful , all those Union flags warm the heart , nae doot Land of Dope and Tory will be on too.

    ReplyDelete