Let me say at the outset, as I've said many, many times over the years, that "you need to vote Labour in Scotland to kick out the Tories" is not a logical or rational statement. Generally speaking if you vote Labour in Scotland you will be helping to remove an SNP MP, and thus making no difference to whether the Tory government remains in power or not, because SNP MPs would be committed to removing the Tories from power just as Labour MPs would be. But the problem is that voters do not understand that it works that way, and there's no point pretending we live in a world in which they do. "Vote Labour on Thursday, get the Tories out by teatime on Friday" is an incredibly powerful pitch, whether we like it or not.
In a general election that the SNP have tacitly decreed will NOT be a de facto referendum on independence, the main question voters feel they will be facing is whether or not there is a Labour government or a Tory government. How do you persuade them to even give the SNP a thought in those circumstances, let alone to actually vote SNP? It's bloody hard, but it's safe to say you don't do it in the manner suggested by Alyn Smith in The National -
"Next year’s General Election is our chance to ensure that Scotland’s voice is heard at Westminster and maximise our influence over what will remain a failing and turbulent UK"
I mean, is that it? The product of months of strategic thought? Seriously? Smith references the Rutherglen by-election result as evidence that the electorate can't be taken for granted, and yet his pitch is evidence that he is doing precisely that. He imagines Scottish voters now have a default setting of voting SNP and that any old vague tat will meet the very low threshold for keeping them on board. If that was really the case, Rutherglen would not have happened, because there was plenty of vague tat on offer from the SNP then. Essentially the SNP are responding to the imminent prospect of apocalypse with an antidote to a minor hiccup.
"Make our voice heard! Maximise our influence!" What voter even thinks like that, especially when - baffling though it may seem - both Anas Sarwar and Keir Starmer generally have better net approval ratings than Humza Yousaf? It may well be that SNP voices are not the voices Scots currently wish to be heard or maximised on their behalf, so what do the SNP have left in the closet? In truth, they needed to give voters a dramatic offer on independence that was at least as inspiring as a new government at Westminster. The careerists thought ultra-caution was needed to save them, but paradoxically it's exactly what will cost them their careers.
I know sometimes SNP supporters regard any strategic advice I give their party with suspicion because of my involvement with the Alba party, but equally some Alba people also regard me with suspicion because I believe the independence cause requires the SNP to somehow win the general election, on the basis that they are the only pro-indy party that can do so under a first-past-the-post system. That belief is absolutely sincere, so I speak here as a critical friend to the SNP, and at the moment as a despairing one.
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I am currently fundraising in the hope of running a new Scot Goes Pop opinion poll in the New Year - details can be found HERE, and the fundraiser page itself is HERE.
I voted SNP in the last two GEs, purely as a personal vote for Stewart Hosie, who is a good local MP. But he isn't standing this time. Probably there aren't many voters like me who vote for individuals more than parties. I don't know how I will vote this time. The SNP have long since failed to convince me at any level of government, or regarding their Indy plans (do they still have any?) Alba seems a bit of a mess - too many vocal members come across as loose canons, then there is all the unexplained/ inexplicable governance goings on etc. - which is a real shame since the party has attracted so many excellent and incisive activists to its ranks. If good sense prevails, there won't be an Alba candidate in my seat of Broughty Ferry & Arbroath anyway. Apart from a good local Councillor, Labour is a bit invisible where I stay so their vote locally will result from a UK-wide pull to, as you say, replace the Conservative UK Government. Overall, I am exhausted by Scottish politics. Things have got steadily worse, and that decline started well before the current FM took over from NS.
ReplyDeleteSame. I won't even vote at the coming general election—the first vote I've missed in 20 years—as the only choices on offer are Brit, Brit, Brit and "Send a message and save our slippers". It'll be a sad day, but the bigger the slump among Yessers, maybe just maybe the bigger the sheer panic among those in power who are blocking our means for change.
DeleteThat's me too. Just scunnered at how shite and shallow the SNP have become. I'll never vote Tory and I'm not voting for the Starmer and Sarwar Labour Party.
DeleteYou’ll do the Yes movement absolutely no favours by not voting.
DeleteI know. But what I don’t know is how I can do any good for the Yes movement by voting for any of the available parties.
DeleteMy seat is the hideously obstinate Edinburgh West, which will comfortably return Scotland’s next deputy first minister in the next Holyrood election no matter what I do. But even in a regular SNP vs. Slab seat, I’d be at a loss to hold my nose to vote for No Change Whatsoever.
I will never vote for the SNP who are unionist and what I've seen in the last 10yrs I can't wait until this little UK party goes bust and we never hear or see from the NUSNP again.
ReplyDeleteSo if you’re hoping the SNP are going to go bust, what then for the independence movement?
DeleteDo you think Alba under Salmond is the answer? I’m far from convinced on that.
" maximise our influence over what will remain a failing and turbulent UK." So that's it then. That is the extent of the SNP's ambition. As long as the SNP is under the control of Sturgeon's gang the SNP will do nothing to achieve independence. The SNP is a Britnat party. I voted SNP in 2021 to hopefully help the SNP get a majority in Holyrood not because I thought Sturgeon would do anything about independence but because I hoped when she did nothing the numpties that keep supporting Sturgeon's gang would wake up. They are still asleep. Keep voting SNP - for what ?
ReplyDeleteTartanTam thinks Sturgeon was a great leader. I guessing he is a numpty nicophant or a Britnat.
DeleteJames - there was an IPSOS poll that I think said 54pc for yes - some people are claiming this to be a false picture due to the IPSOS people saying that it only includes 'those intending to vote' is this truly skewed or can I take some measure of contentment with the yes figure? Thanks
ReplyDeleteI would suggest it started[the decline] leading up to the 2017 election, SNP's indie message was so sub par that supporters stayed at home.
ReplyDeleteYes! Back then my wife helped out as an activist and it was completely clear that the SNP was surprised at the GE announcement and had no campaign prepared. What surprised me was that for the first two weeks, the MP were in the dark too.
DeleteIt was this lack of foresight and planning and the fact that the MP were left unsupported that led me to suspect that the SNP were a paper tiger.
"Independence isn't happening so what's the point of them?"
ReplyDeleteI keep going back to this cutting statement from a pal about the SNP and it really sinks in.
The Stewart McDonalds of this world think they can be voted in acting like another Labour-ish party (when youre gallivanting with British intelligence are you not already morphed unwittingly or otherwise?...). Forgetting SNP's route to success is as a national cause, not a bog standard party.
I think he has been compromised. I know it sounds conspiratorial but heared a few too many titbits. Not the end of days but enough to be annoying when hard earned votes are being turned over for cushy roles in the UK establishment. They're there to get our nation's sovereignty on a par with Ireland and Denmark, not meeting MI6 for a seminar about email hacking.
DeleteFor the person complaining that their post wasn't published, could you contact me by email ( icehouse.250@gmail.com ) and let me know what it was. It's true I don't let everything through, but as far as I was aware over the last couple of days the only ones I haven't published were from our two most persistent trolls, so I may have misinterpreted something.
ReplyDeleteAs mine are about 50/50 at showing up, consider this reply a test.
DeleteTest passed!
DeleteHere's a confusing National writeup of a Holyrood podcast interview with Dr. Philippa Whitford: everyone's favourite "but if only she'd run" hypothetical candidate as long as I can remember. The headline caught my eye, as designed, because it puts words in her mouth re: the 2023 SNP leadership election.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24018644.snp-new-leader-ready-step-nicola-sturgeon/
The full article leaves me confused about her opinion, as she says she reckoned Nicola needed a groomed successor (wasn't that Kate Forbes for a while?), but also that a competitive leadership contest with different policy visions is a good thing for the party. She and Sir. Rt. Hon. Prof. Poultice blame the contest for the SNP's slump in polls.
I get that it's a podcast blether, and not a well-thought out essay on her part. But the sheer morass of this circular fuzzy-thinking says a lot for how the SNP wound up here, and how lost for ideas they are for how to recover. Humza: get grooming! Maybe that dynamic young Nicola Sturgeon character might make for a lively successor?
(It'll be Shug.)
Whether it was by design or just a natural course of events the SNP have become both a major protest movement and The Establishment at the same time. The former gets them repeatedly voted into power and the latter makes them resist any change.
ReplyDeletePower corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
To be fair to the SNP it is quite hard to retain very strong opinion poll leads for more than 10 or 15 years in most democratic systems and a decline in seats is in a way to be expected even if you didn't have the financial scandals.
ReplyDelete“To be fair to the SNP” !!!!!!
DeleteThis is a party that’s done so much damage to this country over the years. They’ve now become so bad they make the Tories look good.
Get a grip!
Thank you James for everything you do as a last surviving voice for the freedom and independence of our country among the madness of two sides with equally discredited leaders doing the unionists job for them beautifully with constant infighting. I though despair that any chance of our country being free has now gone for at least 20 years with a controlled media keeping the British agenda going in Scotland.. At least Hamza is only leader till the everlasting legal case is finished— of course no one will touch the present poisoned chalice of the SNP now while Alba staggers on sniping from the sidelines as a one man band a bit like a Scottish UKiP with Alex Salmond instead of Nigel Farage! Unfortunately iit seems the whole independence movement has just done exactly what old labour did and took the electorate for granted and sadly in spite of literally decades of the Labour Party paying no more than lip service to Scotland we are about to vote for a new Labour Party under starmer that will make Margaret thatcher look left wing ! I would say it’s turkeys voting for Christmas if Christmas hadn’t already past!
ReplyDeleteAnd the unionists still go on about the SNP's 'obsession' with independence!
ReplyDeleteI think the only way ahead is for Humsa to stand down, Kate to stand up and accept the help from Alba ie Alex /Alba put a united front on and go for indy, get rid of all the NuSNP idiots that have created/ existed in the cabal that has destroyed the credibility of our Independence vehicle SNP. It was created to carry us to Independence. Pull out of Westminster…no more snouts in the trough, just like we don’t send people to the House of Lords.
ReplyDeleteIf SNP do poorly in the upcoming election then there may be an opportunity for a new leadership contest in which Kate can put herself forward.
DeleteMhairi Black would be another possibility - she's coming back from Westminster to Scotland and I would expect her to stand as an MSP next time.
DeleteMhairi Black!!! The worst thing to happen to the SNP since Sturgeon. A woke-obsessed charlatan. I wouldn't vote for her if you gave me a bagful of fivers.
DeleteFelix
Black's judgement is so off the mark that she thought it fine to take a drag queen ( in full drag) called Flowjob to a local primary school.
DeleteHello James. I hope that you have a good New Year and that you find what you're after in 2024.
ReplyDeletePlease continue to post.
Those critical of Humza should at least learn to spell his name properly!
ReplyDeleteThey should use Yousaf. Why is it important to you that Humza is spelled correctly? Is that your only concern in this shithouse of a UK that the SNP have failed to extract us from?
Delete
ReplyDeleteKate Forbes would have been a fine choice for SNP leader but
there is no chance of her ever doing any deals with Alba Labour or the Greens, for her, Scottish independence can only be achieved by a more powerful SNP, and everyone else is an irrelevance
Kate Forbes is a my way or the highway politician who probably will end up leader, but not until the fireworks are over
Two questions for the SNP numpties.
ReplyDelete1. Do any of you think when Robison was on her luxury holiday she was working on a secret plan for independence?
2. Do any of you think when Yousaf requested his little secret ( no agenda/ no minutes ) meeting with the Chief Constable just days before Murrells arrest he was talking to him about his secret plan for independence?
There is the saying that there is no fool like an old fool. I beg to differ - the SNP membership win this contest hands down.
As a wee reminder to all the SNP numpties at the start of 2024 - your party could have arranged a de facto Holyrood referendum at any point last year or indeed the previous year but chose not to do so despite promising a referendum since 2017 and raising funds from non members on the back of this promise. They chose to spend these years wasting public money on unpopular failed policies.
ReplyDeleteSturgeon's gang run the SNP and are Britnat devolutionalists who will not deliver independence because they don't want to.
The good news for independence supporters is that despite the best efforts of Sturgeon's gang support for independence has not been driven down. Instead it is support for the SNP that they have driven down. The people PREVENTING independence are the SNP numpties who keep supporting Sturgeon's gang. You were told years ago that Sturgeon would not deliver independence. You were told years ago that Blowhard Blackford would not deliver on his promise to keep Scotland in the EU. You were told years ago they were a bunch of charlatans.
You’re criticism of Nicola Sturgeon is over the top and frankly out of order.
DeleteSturgeon was a leader, something we are seriously lacking at the moment. Just look at how it’s all gone wrong since she stood down.
If we’re to get independence, we need someone of the calibre of Nicola leading us. I agree Kate Forbes might be better than Yousaf, but she’s hardly a Sturgeon. Sadly I don’t see a stand out candidate.
I just don’t get this constant slagging off of “Sturgeon’s gang”, as you put it though. It’s not helping.
Nothing over the top about it. Sturgeon is the biggest traitor Scotland has ever known and the only 'leadership' she showed was to lead us up and down the hill to independence for nine wasted years.
DeleteFelix
Anon at 6:01pm - Sturgeon had her faults, but your criticism is without doubt over the top. At least she was a leader, which is what we lack right now.
DeleteTartanTam - I am intrigued. Pray tell us what are the faults that Sturgeon had in the mind of a nicophant. Could it be she continually overpromised and under delivered?
DeleteStalin was a leader. Hitler was a leader. Blair was a leader. Aye she led the yes movement around in circles taking the piss out of numpties like you and wasting some of the best years for Scottish independence.