SCOT GOES POP - ON THE SPOT. I have now - genuinely - arrived just OUTSIDE the venue for tonight's SNP leadership hustings, so I can live tweet ALL THE DRAMA. Unmissable thread to follow.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
I can exclusively reveal that A LONG QUEUE HAS FORMED.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
FOOTBALL PRACTICE is taking place nearby.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
A relatively large numbers of cars are PARKED.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
There is distant BIRDSONG.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
Here are the live scenes of drama just outside the hustings venue. Note the media van with a SATELLITE DISH ON TOP. pic.twitter.com/pttwaTqHei
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
It's all KICKING OFF here.
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
SCOT GOES POP - as always, ON THE SPOT. (As long as it's within convenient walking distance of my home in the 'Nauld, naturally.)
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
As I'm still on the OUTSIDE and I don't have a ticket or media accreditation, the live tweet DRAMA will now diminish in intensity, but here is a selfie in front of the car park and the football practice. The queue was to the left of this, but they've all gone in now. pic.twitter.com/gQiddB1wB3
— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) March 1, 2023
It took me a while to walk back and I therefore only saw the latter part of the hustings, but from what I've read it looks like we may now have a bit more clarity on Kate Forbes' thoughts on what I will call, for want of a more accurate expression, "her way forward to independence". Apparently she said something about putting independence front and centre of the Westminster election campaign and that there should be a demand for a referendum within three months of an SNP victory, in order to put pressure on the UK Government. For the avoidance of doubt, that would be a massive and humiliating step back from the current policy of a de facto referendum. It would idiotically convert the Supreme Court ruling into a real defeat that gives the UK Government an indefinite veto over any exercise of Scottish democratic self-determination (until such time, of course, that an SNP leader re-adopts the current policy, which may be inevitable in the long run). I would like someone to ask Kate Forbes how she will ensure a legal vote on Scottish independence takes place even if the UK Government keeps saying no. In other words, where is the Plan B that was rendered essential by risking the Plan A with the Supreme Court referral? There's no point pretending that it's an unanswerable question or an unsolvable problem, because the de facto referendum plan solves it. If Kate Forbes is going to ditch that plan, what is her alternative method for holding a vote without Westminster's agreement? Does she have one?
The snag is, of course, that Humza Yousaf most certainly doesn't have an alternative to offer either, and from him the mood music is several million times worse. At least Kate Forbes is offering some optimism and urgency. Although she has no credible plan, at least she's putting a tight timescale on her non-credible plan, if you see what I mean. She's talking about her newborn daughter growing up in an independent Scotland, which is more promising than (for example) a hope that she'll go through university under independence. Whereas if Humza was talking about his child, he'd probably speak of his dream that they might collect their pension from an independent Scotland - but only with a lot of hard work, of course, and sustained supermajority conditions apply. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Unfortunately, this does look like being essentially a Forbes v Yousaf contest, which means that whatever happens, the independence cause is now almost guaranteed to suffer a setback. But with Ms Forbes it would be a significantly lesser setback, and in situations like this you just have to do your best to ensure that the least worst outcome occurs. It's also vital that as many people as possible give Ash Regan their first preference vote (with Ms Forbes getting their second preferences), because if the ultimate catastrophe of a Yousaf win is averted, it's possible that a strong third place for Ms Regan might just embolden Ms Forbes to be a little more radical on independence strategy.
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I'll ne at the Glenrothes hustings tomorrow - any question you think I should ask?
ReplyDelete"How will you ensure a vote on independence takes place if the UK Government keeps saying no? It was clearly explained to the membership that Plan A was only being risked by the Supreme Court referral because there was a clearly-defined Plan B - so if you're ditching the de facto, what's your alternative clearly-defined Plan B for holding a vote on independence in the near future?"
DeleteOr any suitably pithy variant on the above.
"The SNP's primary reason for being, is to acheive independence. Nicola Sturgeon arrived at a conclusion that the only effective way forward was a de-facto referendum via a Westminster election. Will you continue with this approach"
DeleteOr, perhaps more to the point, will you continue with ANY de facto referendum at all?
DeleteJames, my understanding of what I heard from last nights hustings was de facto referendums were off the table permanently from all three of them. All three of them do seem to be varying what they say on independence each time I hear them speak. The variation is usually small but all seem to be clear de facto is a no no.
DeleteSo the 8 election wins over 8 years that Sturgeon keeps boasting about winning amounts to zero when it comes to Indyref2 and getting independence. If you are an independence supporter that is failure. If you are an SNP party person it is great success - more jobs for the boys and more money from Westminster.
Forbes came back to the old tired one more election win and we get a sec 30 but that has to be a super duper election win but with no specification of what that actually is. Pretty disappointing to hear that again. Forbes seems to think Westminster are full of decent people like herself who will see sense if we get some sort of super % vote in an election. I don't see either of that happening any time soon if ever. If 52% is good enough to leave the EU then it should be good enough for us to end the UK.
I'm liking Ash Regan's policies on independence but I'm put off by her inferior oratory skills.
ReplyDeleteRegan can improve her oratory skills but if you are a candidate with good oratory skills but are a do nothing about independence person who do you think is more likely to deliver independence? A person that talks a good game ( Sturgeon comes to mind) or a person that actually wants independence?
DeleteI guess we'll just hve to wait a few years till the SNP gets its arse kicked and we get a new indy leader that can lead a country - the present altenatives don't strike me as able.
ReplyDeleteDo we know if there is any upcoming polling being done on SNP members' voting preferences?
ReplyDeleteIf it's not a defacto then it's time to withdraw support - I'm fed up being played by this party.
ReplyDeleteDo you not think that a defacto general election is risky,since it is starting to look as if labour would win the next UK general election.Perhaps the next election for the Scottish parliament makes more sense? Also,I observed that Kate Forbes came up with good ideas about maximising the YES vote and I am encouraged by her ideas.
ReplyDeleteMy concern is not just that she's rejected using Westminster 2024 as a de facto referendum, it's that she may close off any option of a de facto referendum at any time. If anyone can see any evidence that she's genuinely open to using Holyrood 2026 as a de facto referendum, for instance, I'd be only too relieved to hear about it.
DeleteOne thing is for sure: if Humza wins, there'll be no votes on independence at any point during his leadership.
Yousaf, like Sturgeon, is a unionist.
ReplyDeleteEuro/British federalist I think, I think St Nic hated nationalists, it all came out at the time of the Brexit debates.
DeleteThe other thing that has disappeared is the campaign for Scottish democracy. Remember that. The relaunch by Sturgeon and her mouthpieces like Kavanagh and The National that the campaign for independence is now a campaign for Scottish democracy. Clearly it was just more time wasting carrots by Sturgeon/Kavanagh/The National. The candidates just seem to be forgetting all about the London court verdict and its as if the complete lack of meaningful democracy in Scotland is no longer a concern.
ReplyDeleteI would like to hear an SNP member at a hustings put to the candidates
" Is Scotland treated like a colony of England despite signing an international treaty of union."
I might be going to the Johnstone hustings, what question would you suggest ?
ReplyDeleteHow about asking for clarity on whether there will still be a special conference, and whether it will still have the right to make the decision (and a free decision).
DeleteJames. you've some good clarity of thought. A post on questions to ask at hustings would be useful, and then it's updated with responses per candidate would be terrific
DeleteThe fact that N.Ireland is in the EU is really rubbing our noses in the colonial shit. It proves that Sturgeons policy of trying to get the UK to remain in the EU was wrong. She should have told Westminster that Scotland either remains in the EU or we hold a referendum on Scottish independence immediately. It's easier to stay in the EU than leave and rejoin. Sturgeon has wasted years of excellent opportunities for independence and allowed us to be taken out of the EU after voting 62% to remain.
ReplyDeleteShe is either a Britnat or the most useless, disastrous independence leader you could imagine. The only positive thing I could say about Yousaf is he won't take us out of the EU his boss beat him to it.
Latest quote from Mrs Christ, 'The leadership hopeful said she was somebody the UK Government could negotiate with.'.
ReplyDeleteEvidently naive person believing the Brits would ever negotiate unless they were forced to.
Deputy FM John REDACTOR MAN Swinney to resign. I say good riddance. Another one boasting about how long he has been about. Yousaf declared Swinney was his best pal in politics at the hustings. No need to say any more about Yousaf. Let's have the rest of Sturgeons gang follow him to the back benches where they belong.
ReplyDeleteI like a lot about what Ash was saying but she needs to bullet point her views she was a bit messy to say the least, and Kate's idea about the roads and nurses training was a good idea, but they all have to be pushed on independence and the question of a conference and if the whole movement can get involved in the strategy. Someone should also ask about maximising the yes vote for a supper majority so SNP first and any other second.
ReplyDeleteIn the entirety of the SNP, these 2 average politicians are all we can muster - fkn pathetic really.
ReplyDeleteNicholson, Harvie and Clegg on Debate night and now Blackman on Question Time. Sturgeon has got her troops out. Clegg seems to think he is some sort of journalistic superstar because he got an award for printing lies about Salmond that he got from his very close source.
ReplyDeleteHere's a question to ask: Why should I vote SNP at the election if it's not a defacto referendum when I agree with more Labour policies than yours?
ReplyDeleteI think that some people underestimate Kate Forbes.She is the candidate that the unionists fear most.That is why they are working so hard to discredit her.Okay she does need to do some more thinking about how to achieve independence,but she is absolutely right that in order to mazimise the vote we need an action plan to clear the route to independence.She is also correct to say that we need the views of SNP members and others,as others within the YES movement ,and to develop an economy to eradicate poverty.
ReplyDelete