Wednesday, March 8, 2023

A week or two ago, the SNP establishment were trying to drive Kate Forbes out of public life completely by saying her religious views made her unfit for high office. These people are not ideally placed to now claim Forbes is being uncollegiate in simply pointing out Humza Yousaf was a Transport Minister who couldn't get the trains to run on time.

The hypocrisy that has been on display on social media in recent hours from the current SNP establishment has been quite staggering.  Taking on Humza Yousaf so directly and scathingly on his poor record in government was a bold and high risk strategic choice by Kate Forbes and her advisers, and we'll have to wait and see whether it pays off or not - presumably the thinking is that they have to get the SNP membership to reluctantly face up to the fact that Yousaf is simply not competent enough to be First Minister, even if that's a bracing message for some.

But the idea that there was anything illegitimate or disreputable about what Forbes said last night is pretty rich coming from people who were essentially trying to drive Forbes out of public life completely only a week or two ago, and who were certainly saying she was unfit to be First Minister, on the basis of nothing more than a purely hypothetical vote that she never actually cast because she wasn't even an MSP at the time.  It also ignores the fact that Yousaf made some astonishingly hurtful and uncollegiate comments about both Forbes and Ash Regan last night, for example his suggestion that neither of them would protect the rights of all the people they represent.  Pointing out on the basis of sound evidence that Yousaf has not performed well enough on his day-to-day ministerial responsibilities seems like a fairly above-the-belt line of attack by comparison.

The feeling I get is that some people started to believe their own propaganda and thought that Kate Forbes had no place in the leadership contest, and that she would inevitably either drop out or get out the sackcloth and ashes for the remainder of the campaign.  They're struggling to come to terms with the fact that she's still there and that she's there so unapologetically.

Incidentally, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the end of the STV debate when Bernard Ponsonby parroted the Humza narrative that there's no point seeking an outright mandate for independence, because if the UK government can ignore a mandate for a referendum, they can just as easily ignore a mandate for independence itself.  The point of the exercise, chaps, is that you would then have a mandate for independence and not just for a referendum.  The 2014 mandate to remain in the United Kingdom would, for the first time, no longer be uncontested.  If you truly can't see how that would move us forward and give the independence movement more leverage and put the UK Government in a tougher position, then you're beyond all help.  A mandate for independence is an absolute prerequisite for independence.  A mandate for a referendum, ironically, is not.

Ultimately, Humza's pitch of "there's no point in trying to win an independence mandate because the UK government will ignore it" is not the wizard argument for further years of delay that he seems to think it is.  It's actually an argument for giving up on independence and dissolving the SNP.

53 comments:

  1. Humza uses the standard tricks of the intellectually limited opportunist. At it's most crude - bang together a form of words that might make an impression in the moment. If it doesn't work, or the contradictions are pointed out, just flim flam something else for the next moment and assume that we all have the memories of goldfish.
    He's really rather a 'yawn' to listen to.
    I wonder if he's actually in danger of sinking himself in these hustings ?

    ReplyDelete
  2. Forbes and Yousaf are basically saying the same thing with respect to independence, aren’t they? Neither is in favour of a plebiscite at the next Westminster (or Holyrood) election, and both want to increase support for independence to much more than 50% as a way of putting pressure on the UK government. They’ve both said that — and they’ve also pointed out that they already have mandates for a referendum, but Westminster is preventing them from delivering on those mandates.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's fair comment, but what it leaves out is that the mood music is so much better from Forbes. Yousaf is practically asking for a mandate to do nothing for a decade, while Forbes is talking about independence within quite a short timescale and asking members to trust her to deliver that, even if it's not entirely clear how she can do that without radically changing her current stated strategy.

      Delete
    2. I have no idea whether Humza Yousaf has performed well in his various ministerial roles, but his relative lack of popularity with the electorate suggests the SNP will lose ground under his leadership. Intentionally or otherwise Forbes has fatally undermined him. As the change candidate (Ash will not win) Forbes can to some extent disown the past. I will therefore vote for Forbes, and if she fails, the party will need to replace her-with Stephen Flynn I would then hope.

      Delete
  3. Absolutely 100% spot on article James. Sturgeon had her 'surrender' speech in Jan 2020 and now we have Yousaf continuing the same stuff. This is NOT the stuff of independence it is the stuff of subservience, subjugation and humiliation. If you vote for that then you ain't an independence supporter.
    Yousaf claims he will increase support by continuing Sturgeon's progressive agenda. Just how will making it easier for men to access women's spaces at the drop of a hat do that.
    Forbes claims she will improve the economy and that will increase support. The Scottish economy is hampered by the very fact we are not independent

    So many people cannae handle the truth about Sturgeon so they keep up the pretence that Sturgeon was brilliant. She wasted some of the best opportunities for independence over an 8 year period. She tried to put Salmond in jail on false charges.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I found the panel discussion that followed the Leadership debate very shallow.They seemed to concentrate on sound bites from segments of speeches and fail to grasp the context or essence of the message from candidates,particularly Kate Forbes.Of course there is disagreement about how to get around a barrier erected by the UK government,but this is not a bad thing,since all options deserve to be considered .The panel members were nit picking around the margins.

    Regarding a plan,I prefer to campaign during every election for indepence on the basis that winning most sears delivers the mandate.However,I do agree with Kate Forbes that maximising the Yes vote through a costed vision of what Scotland could look kike 10 years after independence,could also put us into a strong postion to claim independence.I believe that the thinking will evolve as we proceed,but we do need the whole
    independence movement to work closely together

    I prefer to campaign for independence in every general election foindependence.
    carefully.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Until the so called Independence movement can unite, there will be no independence. Sturgeon was by far our best shot, had a plan, and was hounded out by people who purport independence. The British Establishment need only to agitate slightly from time to time, then sit back and watch. Our chance is gone, destroyed by bitter resentful people who cared more for retribution than they did for independence. Thanks, I won’t see self determination, neither will most of the posters on here.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. " had a plan" - care to remind us what this was?
      " hounded out" - care to tell us who these people in the SNP are?

      Or are you just a delusional numpty.

      Delete
    2. The unvarnished truth in a nutshell.

      Delete
    3. Anonymous at 12.12 pm thanks for agreeing - anonymous at 10.26 is a delusional numpty - can't say what this plan is or who in the SNP hounded her out.

      Delete
    4. I was agreeing with 10-16am ... not you.
      You sir .. are a frothing vacuous no-mark.

      Delete
    5. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ ya numpty. Frothing no - mark. A new one - 9/10 for originality. How about you saying what the plan is then and who in the SNP hounded out Sturgeon since you agree with the post. Anonymous numpties to the right of me anonymous numpties to the left of me all have one thing in common Sturgeon made fools of them. "Sturgeon was our best shot" - that marks you both out as 24 carat dafties.

      Delete
    6. Sturgeon wasn't 'hounded out' by anyone. She made herself a laughing stock with her refusal to accept a rapist was a man, then the police started to ask awkward questions of her husband about the missing indyref2 money. In short, she jumped before she was pushed and has left the party and the country in a horrendous mess.

      Felix

      Delete
  6. The Daily Record gives Yousaf 8 out of 10, Forbes 7 out of 10 and Regan 5 out of 10 re last nights TV debate. Remember Skier said the British media want Regan to win. More evidence the British media favour Yousaf. They favour Yousaf because he has said he will do nothing to get Scottish independence and he will be so poor at governing Labour will probably win at the next Holyrood election. They downplay Regan because she is the only one who actually wants independence now.

    Skier as ever is just a Sturgeon propagandist and that means by definition a liar. Yousaf is Sturgeons boy.

    Now that all three candidates have clearly ruled out Indyref2 is it not time the SNP returned the £600k they raised on false pretences over 6 years ago or explained their rational for keeping it. Otherwise the polis may investigate - oh wait too late - the polis are investigating.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Daily Record - good old SLab newspaper.

      Delete
  7. Just a wee note of thanks for your ongoing commentary James.
    I know how my vote will go, but out of interest is there anyone other than you that offers a public, believable, summary of the various hustings and debates?
    Donald

    ReplyDelete
  8. WGD numpty Capella has bought in to the Forbes pitch of we just have to wait a lot longer for independence and the economy is key. Capella also then posts why GERS is crap. However, Capella cannot bring herself to make the leap to ask herself why did Sturgeon keep on producing GERS all these years. What sort of indepence leader helps the Britnats by producing propaganda that the tells the people of Scotland that the Scottish economy has a massive deficit. In one year up to £30 odd billion. Fantasy nonsense but Sturgeon kept churning it out year after year and none of the candidates have said they would stop it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've heard that GERS is a legal obligation on Scotgov to produce, via the Scotland Act. A quick bit of internet searching just now does not show any evidence for this to be the case, however.

      If it really is voluntary, then halting it would be well worth consideration. It certainly does nothing to promote independence!

      Delete
    2. Well Sturgeon once said she was looking to get Derek McKay to replace it with a different paper. Can't imagine Sturgeon doing anything illegal.

      Delete
  9. Look it's quite simple. Forbes and Yousaf should consult the great polling expert, statistician and creator of the unique Skier Ski slope graph. Using this graph they can decide what level of support they want for independence and Skier's Ski slope will tell them the year it will happen. No need for them to make great efforts on the economy (Forbes) or continue progressive policies ( Yousaf ). It will just happen according to Skier. Pick your percentage and get your year independence will just miraculously happen. All you need is patience and hope you don't die in the interim.
    Is that what Alyn Smith did when he said we need to wait till 2050?

    Anyone signing up to this waiting about stuff is a numpty. Oops there's another one - Dr Jim is now signed up to just keep waiting. The reason we are not independent right now is because all these numpties have turned the SNP in to a waste of space.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As opposed to yourself who arrived as a pre-packed hermetically - sealed waste-of-space.Have a nice day.

      Delete
    2. " Have a nice day. " πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ so kind. The rest of your post is meaningless but that is par for the course from WGD numpties.

      Delete
  10. Sturgeonite unionists like Yousaf are getting desperate. Good.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Okay Independence for Scotland,What is your plan to get independence.It is not a problem to disagree with others,but it does require a coherant alternative plan.I do understand the frustration of many SNP members,I feel the same way myself.However,there are a number of different views about how best to achieve independence.It is not a problem that people disagree,that cam generate creativity and new ideas,providing we respect
    each other In the unlikely chance that I would become First Minister,this is what I would do:
    1) Make every election an independence election,and set the target as being the majority of seats.
    2) Develop a costed vision of what independence can achieve(in contrast to devolution) after 10 years
    3) Win the economic argument by linking independence to what voters are most concerned about.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please dont expect a coherent reply from that under-stone-dweller.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous - as you post as anonymous I have no idea how long you have been reading below the line on SGP or indeed what you have previously posted but I have said on numerous occasions in previous years that a party of independence with a leader who wanted independence would have said to Westminster - " If you do not agree a sec 30 then I will use the May 21 Holyrood election as a vote on independence. A majority of people voting for independence parties will be a mandate to terminate the union."

      So please do not try on the I only disagree with people stuff.

      I have no problem with your second and third points but the first point I would say it NOW has to be majority of votes. It used to be a majority of MPs would have been an acceptable position but after Salmond changed it to a referendum and 2014 happened I believe it now has to be Votes. Harder but eminently achievable if there is an SNP that actually wants independence.

      In terms of respect it is hard to respect people like WGD numpty Dr Jim who has just posted the thought that Salmond did a deal with Westminster to lose the 2014 referendum and all the other stuff they have posted on that site over the years.

      Delete
    3. And that reply from anonymous at 2.36pm is exactly the sort of abuse I have had for years from WGD numpties too cowardly to post under their normal WGD moniker. It's always personal abuse - they can never argue anything or dispute what I say.

      Delete
    4. I have to be honest and say I'm very disappointed in the WGD numpties.

      Delete
    5. Disappointed? Hell yeah.

      Delete
    6. IfS, don't be such a snowflake !

      Delete
    7. You were christened as 'Independence for Scotland' ?

      Delete
    8. Who said I was a Christian - ya muppet. Just like Yousaf I have been an independence supporter all my life. I was born humming Scotland the Brave and my first nappy was in tartan.
      You were born a daftie? or just developed that way

      Delete
    9. Poor wee soul !

      Delete
  12. It can't be long now until a Home Counties Tory calls for the Spitfires to strafe the invading small boats in the English Channel.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Pro independence supporters and the SNP need a leader who will stop setting up self-imposed barriers to our independence. As far as I can see Yousaf as "leader" will only be too eager to pile self-imposed barrier upon self-imposed barrier thereby doing Westminster's job for them. Yousaf is the kind of "leader" who, should opinion polls regularly show support for independence at 60%, would tearfully declare the desperate need for said polls to regularly show 70% in favour of independence before getting out an even bigger bowl to plead again for Westminster's permission to hold a referendum.

    In short, Yousaf is a political coward whose supposed support for our independence is highly questionable.

    ReplyDelete
  14. WGD numpty Dr Jim extolling the virtues of booming Estonia. Well let's hope Jimbo's preferred replacement for Sturgeon - Forbes - ain't taking economic advice from him as last year Estonia was the inflationary capital of Europe with rates in the 20s and only now reducing to approx 18%. this year. They really don't get much right these numpties.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I don't call him Dr Dim for nothing.

      Delete
  15. Johnstone
    Yousaf makes a lame joke about Colin mcKay not being there.
    Yousaf says he will be nice to candidates then takes them to task for not being proud of Nicola Sturgeon and the party's record. The word ruse turns up again as does Wellbeing and of course no NHS strike.

    Of course Yousaf is getting Sturgeons gang to attack Forbes and Regan.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Forbes says serious hustings people at previous hustings. Why would somebody turn up at more than one hustings across the countryπŸ€”

    ReplyDelete
  17. Regan also points out that some of the same people are there that have been at previous hustings. Reagan says she is the candidate for change.
    All three candidates get good applause.

    ReplyDelete
  18. First question is about GRR - groan.......silly person trying to interrupt Regan when answering question. Regan proposes a citizens assembly.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Forbes makes it clear she favours a sec 30 Westminster approved referendum.

    ReplyDelete
  20. Regan repeats the gold standard is the ballot box.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Yousaf wants the settled will. Independence will come he says. There ain't no shortcut - Sturgeon couldn't do it he says. Anyone really think Yousaf can do it then. So the question that follows is why did Sturgeon keep asking for a mandate for Indyref2 if there is no ruse to deliver independence?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Yousaf punting the old Catalonia excuse for doing nothing. Yousaf = gradualism = John Swinney. He punts the ruse crap again. If Nicola cannae do it nobody else can he punts. Has there ever been a more pathetic character than Yousaf.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Has Yousaf ever been on a Pride march because he certainly bangs on about this subject matter a lot? Time for him to turn up at independence marches and Pride marches or be branded a phoney like his boss.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Replies
    1. WT if that is the answer what is the question?

      Delete
    2. Has there ever been a more pathetic character than Youssef? was the question Answer Sturgeon

      Delete
    3. WT - πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ fair point.

      Delete
  25. Forbes and Regan both noted that the same people are turning up at multiple hustings. Silence from Yousaf. Perhaps Yousaf needs to go to Specsavers.

    ReplyDelete
  26. New poll for Channel 4 .KF 8 points ahead with the public

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/kate-forbes-most-popular-snp-leadership-candidate-with-the-public-poll-finds-4057152

    ReplyDelete