Greens 55
SNP 37
Labour 27
Conservatives 7
Non-transferable 20
So I don't think there's much doubt that the vast majority of these people were successfully conned and honestly thought they were voting for a left-wing environmentalist party at the very least, and probably many thought they were voting for the official Green party. Intentional far-right voters would have transferred in pretty much the polar opposite way, with the Tories getting the most transfers and the Greens the fewest.
In a way you have to grudgingly admire Alistair McConnachie's cunning, because one of the very reasons the Electoral Commission exists is to prevent cynical actors exploiting voter confusion, and yet he's clearly found a rare way around the rules. The name "Independent Green Voice" is different enough from "Scottish Green Party" that it's hard for the Electoral Commission to disallow it, but the party emblem which appears on ballot papers has the word "Green" in much bigger lettering than the other two words in the name, and there's also a leaf which looks very much like the sort of logo a real Green party might use. Even if a voter notices the word "independent", they might still be led astray due to the well known fact that the Greens support Scottish independence.
However ingenious the tactic is, though, you'd still have to ask: what's the point? There's only so far you can get by pretending to be something you're not. You aren't going to ride all the way to far-right revolution by posing as tree-huggers. The only way it might be a stepping stone would be if it generated a big enough vote to actually get a few people elected to councils or to parliament, and we can clearly see it's falling short of that. Mr McConnachie took 3.3% of the vote in Hillhead, the most Green-friendly ward in the whole of Scotland, and even that wouldn't be enough to win a Holyrood list seat if you extended it across a whole electoral region. So logically the purpose must be to act as spoilers and to try to limit the number of seats the Greens win, in the hope that mainstream unionist parties (ie. the Tories or Labour) will win the seats instead. That didn't work yesterday, and it was never likely to work under a preferential voting system like STV, but it very much did work in 2021 under the Additional Member System that is used to elect Holyrood.
Mr McConnachie's official ballot description yesterday was "Organic Green Scotland". The honest version would perhaps have been "Holocaust Deniers For Labour".
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Alistair McConnachie is a nasty article, and that's as kind as I can be about that character
ReplyDeleteAs long as he stops the SNP winning Manky Jaiket's happy, job done
ReplyDeleteIs KC SGP's very own Manky Jaiket.
DeleteNext time I see him yelling at us on a march, I'll question his unionism, the Green!
DeleteIfs, question for you,
DeleteWhat do Nats and Nessie hunters have in common?
Britnat anon at 11.02am - still waiting for you to tell us all why it is so good being a Britnat House Jock.
DeleteYou didn’t answer my question! I guess maybe you think Nessie hunters have more chance of success than Nats😀
Delete🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🙂🤣
DeleteScottish Conversatives
ReplyDeleteScottish Ladder and Trades Unionist
Scottish Literal Demon-cats
How about a “Scottish Nationalist Party” that actually fights for independence?
ReplyDeleteStuart Campbell, it turns out from his interview with Alex Salmond, even uses the royal "we" in normal speech. The mind boggles.
ReplyDelete"The focus of Wings has always been on attacking the enemies of independence. That's why I'll be voting Conservative at the general election..."
DeleteIt certainly solves his Judean People's Front dilemma of whether to half-heartedly back Alba, as he did in 2021, or to get behind Barrhead Boy's new nutjob army of "Independents 4 Independence", who it seems from Alf Baird's new post will be standing directly against Alba.
Delete"Doesn't affect me, mate, I'm a Tory! Rule Britannia!"
Is my indy for indy or against? He doesnae say which on the ballot. Where's a Barrhead boy when you need him?
DeleteI'm skeptical of the claim that IGV cost the Greens two seats in 2021. Yes, the arithmetic argument is compelling but a broader analysis suggests that the net spoiler effect came from All For Unity draining Tory/Lab/Lib voters on the list, which made it easier for the Greens to get more seats.
ReplyDeleteIf AFU's 23,000 votes move back to the unionist trio, IGV's impact isn't large enough to have achieved anything. Worth keeping in mind as AFU probably isn't standing again in 2026.
Wikipedia:
DeleteAll for Unity was a political and electoral alliance in Scotland. Founded in July 2020 by George Galloway, it was a British unionist party which opposed Scottish independence and fielded candidates at the 2021 Scottish Parliament election. After winning no seats, the party voluntarily deregistered with the Electoral Commission in May 2022.
You can't really transfer every vote so easily. Some voters just like to vote for minor parties on the list. What other reason could Adam Lyal's Witchery Tour Party have received a thousand votes in three successive Holyrood elections? An overriding fondness for cosplay?
DeleteGorgeous George's ironic Unity ticket was more distinct from the three mainstream unionist parties than this fake Green outfit is from the Greens.
Thanks for that, interesting.
ReplyDeleteI guess the point is that it's a constant drain on votes for the Greens, and could reduce the numbers of Green MSPs at Holyrood, and reduce the total of Indy supporting MSPs to a minority, rather than a majority.
Vague memory says there was one list seat affected in 2021. Mmm, maybe Glasgow list where after 1 list seat at 11.8%, the Greens then at 5.9% lost out to the Conservatives at 6.05% who'd already got one at 12.1% - with Others at 4.0%. Sorry, that's from my spreadsheet of actuals by % not votes.
It's a typical sneaky Unionist tactic.
Perhaps, for gardeners, the Scottish Conservatory Party should be formed by someone with money enough for deposits? Then there's the Scottish Lavatory Party for those who have a few p to spare.
The Scottish Conservatory and Greenhouse Party sound like a sterling lot of conserve-making botanists, come the post-independence parliament. While very green indeed, they should not be mistaken for ecologists. Those Chelsea tractors are still their pride and joy.
DeleteYes, you could say that.
DeleteInspired by the Literal Democrat's success in 1994, there was indeed a "Scottish Conservatory and Unionist" candidate in the 1995 Perth by-election. Interestingly it didn't work, probably because the eye can more easily register a difference at the end of a word.
DeleteAn amusing article on said Consveratory Tory, found via the Wikipedia page on the by-election:
Deletehttps://www.heraldscotland.com/news/12107386.conservatory-candidate/
"Last night, a Scottish Conservatives' spokesman said: ''The presence of a fringe candidate calling himself a Scottish Conservatory and Unionist represents a blatant spoiling tactic.''"
DeleteGood finds :-)
It happens all the time though, the Reform party claim they're the real Conservatives when they're not, and Alba claim they're the real independence party when they're not
ReplyDeleteThe Family party are the exact opposite from what they claim to be
Stuart Campbell claimed for years he supported independence then admitted he lied because he enjoys conning people
Anonymous at 2.47pm - you forgot the phoney party who faked it for 10 years, raked in money on false pretences that they were a party of independence promising Indyref2 and then a de facto referendum. You must know who I mean - the Scottish National Party also known as the Scottish Grifters Party.
DeleteDe facto referendum LOL.
DeleteIfS:
DeleteThe SNP cannot be accused of being a "phoney party". They made substantial contributions and efforts towards Scottish independence and governance.
The SNP has been a prominent force in Scottish politics, advocating for independence and self-determination for Scotland.
Their pursuit of a second independence referendum (Indyref2) is grounded in a democratic mandate obtained through successive electoral victories in Scotland, where they have consistently put forward the case for independence as a central part of their platform.
Under the leadership of the SNP, Scotland has seen significant policy innovations and progressive legislation, especially in areas like health care, education, and renewable energy.
The party has been at the forefront of promoting social welfare policies and has worked towards making Scotland a more inclusive and fair society. The introduction of policies such as free university tuition for Scottish students, the minimum unit pricing for alcohol to tackle public health issues, and aggressive targets for renewable energy to combat climate change are testament to their commitment to the public good and the welfare of the Scottish people.
The SNP's governance has also been characterized by a commitment to principles of democracy and transparency. They have engaged in extensive public consultations on matters of national importance, including the independence debate, ensuring that the voices of the Scottish people are heard and considered in policymaking processes.
While criticism is a natural and necessary part of any democratic discourse, labeling the SNP as a "grifters party" overlooks the tangible contributions and progress made under their administration. The quest for independence is a legitimate and deeply felt aspiration for many in Scotland, and the SNP's pursuit of a second referendum reflects a response to changing circumstances, including the UK's departure from the European Union, which has significant implications for Scotland's future.
In conclusion, the SNP's efforts in governance and their advocacy for Scottish independence are driven by a genuine commitment to the welfare and democratic rights of the Scottish people. Dismissing these efforts as mere deceit undermines the complex and nuanced political landscape in Scotland and the legitimate aspirations of its people.
Anon at 8:47, excellent post, well said.
DeleteThank you Anon 8.58 so much for your kind words and taking the time to read my post. I'm glad you found it to be of value. I believe it's important for us to have open and respectful discussions about the SNP and its contribution to politics in Scotland, as it helps us all understand the diverse perspectives and challenges we face. If there are any points you'd like to discuss further or if you have insights of your own to share, I'd be really interested to hear them. Let's keep the conversation going!
DeleteAnon at 8.58pm - you congratulated a robot - ya numpty. Or AI as some like to say.
DeleteSo to summarise we have a Britnat House Jock at 8.41pm, a f*****g robot at 8.47pm and 9.19pm and a numpty at 8.58pm. Let's keep the conversation going NOT. Can a robot be described as a prick - not sure - but the other two most definately are.
And IFS makes it 3 pricks.
DeleteHello “Independence for Scotland”, well I’m the anon at 8:58 you accused of being a numpty! Charming. We all make mistakes!
DeleteAnyway, whether it’s a robot or a real person, he/she/it makes very good points. Some peoples criticism of the SNP is a bit ott, yours in particular, and does absolutely nothing for the independence cause.
Maybe you should reflect.
Anon at 10.56pm - " whether it's a robot or a real person, he/she/it makes very good points." - if you don't want to be considered a numpty don't post stuff like this. It's a robot fgs! I have reflected many years ago and come to the conclusion that Sturgeon's gang will never deliver independence because they don't want it and people like you help them. So you are the numpty who does nothing for independence by supporting a fraud of an Independence Party. They have been lying for 10 years and you just want people to wheest for the SNP not independence. Is 10 years not long enough for you to realise you have made another mistake. Maybe you should reflect.
Delete“Independence for Scotland “, I stick with my comment, and repeat, you should reflect!
DeleteAnon at 9.40pm - Upon reflection I can confirm that the SNP truly is the dead elephant blocking the road to independence. Just like I ask the Britnat to tell us what is so good about being a Britnat. I'll ask you tell me why the SNP are not holding a de facto referendum at each and every election even though they promised a referendum and then a de facto referendum.
Delete“Independence for Scotland “, I actually share your frustration with the SNP, at least in part. I’m not sure of the wisdom in some people threatening not to vote SNP at the upcoming election though. What is the alternative? Apparently Alba are talking of maybe standing a dozen candidates.
DeleteAre you hoping for maybe a big Alba move at the 2026 Holyrood election, and they’re going to become the dominant pro Indy party?
Maybe there’s a chance this could happen but I honestly doubt it.
For me, our best hope is a resurgent SNP after the GE, probably with a new leader. I really think this is the most realistic outcome, and people can get back behind the party 100%, as in the past.
Regarding the de facto referendum, I understand where you’re coming from, but I suspect the reason the SNP haven’t declared the GE a de facto referendum is they’re not sure they’d win.
I don’t subscribe to the idea that every election, Westminster and Holyrood, can be a de facto referendum until we get a majority. Westminster and unionists just wouldn’t accept it. It would need to be a one off like the 2014 referendum. As positive as polls are on independence I strongly suspect this is the reason they haven’t pulled the trigger yet, so to speak.
I hope this fully answers your question.
Anon at 12.07 pm - credit to you for answering. " Westminster and unionists just wouldn't accept it." You are kidding yourself on that they would ever accept anything. I don't believe they would have accepted a yes vote in 2014. Look how they cheated with the vow after they thought it was going to be a yes vote. What is needed is a yes vote in a legal referendum/ election and the polical leaders with the courage to take it forward from there. The SNP are not cowards they are full of Britnats. " Probably a new leader" - just another devolutionalist from the pool of Britnats. They haven't pulled the trigger because they don't want to. Sturgeon faked it for 10 years and then ran away as she realised the polis were hovering. If the British state were happy to flood the IRA with agents and let them murder people they will have no qualms about flooding the SNP.
Delete“ Independence for Scotland “, oh well I don’t think there’s any point in debating further.
DeleteYou are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion.
Interesting to see a far right party in Scotland.
ReplyDeleteI’m a great believer in PR but that’s the price you pay. Fringe nutters get represented (and quite often hold the balance of power so have disproportionately way more power than their base deserves - the Greens are the ultimate example of this I’m afraid)
DeleteI see Salmond has Conservative voter Rev Stu on his Scotland Speaks show this week.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if the man spent less time cavorting with Conservatives who don't support independence but who'll puff up his ego, and acknowledged the many genuine, hardworking, tireless independence supporters who are fleeing his own party thanks to leadership malfeasance, Alba would not currently be circling the drain.
50,000 members abandoned the SNP and Sturgeon's gang lied about it even telling the numpties that the membership had increased. Anon at 6.54am - how many have left Alba and did anybody lie about them leaving? SNP Leadership malfeasance being investigated by the polis. Sturgeon caught on camera lying to the NEC that the SNP finances are healthy. Murrell giving secret loans to the accounts. Buying stuff, using party funds, like a motorhome. Now that sounds like malfeasance. Oh and the cherry on top, Murray Foote ex editor of the Daily Redcoat and author/publisher of the VOW that broke the Edinburgh Agreement and scuppered the referendum in 2014 is now in charge of the supposed independence party that still calls itself the SNP. Scottish Grifters Party more like.
DeleteYou always seem to throw a temper tantrum when Conservative and Unionist, Rev Stu is criticised. It's very bizarre.
DeleteWho the hell mentioned the SNP? I don't give a damn about the SNP. I give a damn about Alba. And it's quite disgusting that Salmond has taken to galumphing into NEC meetings and taking the chair when he has no authority to do so, using the bully pulpit to brandish dodgy dossiers of 'evidence' that he refuses to share, and that the party can't even keep it consistent with which round of voting his own family members were elected at. It reeks.
Alba does not have 50,000 members to lose. It would maybe have more if Salmond had the guts and wherewithal to stand in Rutherglen. But when required to put his money where his mouth was, Salmond folded like a cheap deckchair. It was an act of electoral cowardice that decisively wounded Alba.
Be that as it may, the party once had a very small core of very dedicated independence supporters who were sick and tired of the SNP's conduct. And now a number of those dedicated supporters have left the party, having had their concerns explicitly ignored by the Salmond leadership for months. Unless, of course, you count him going on rants at conference that conflate valid criticism with personal abuse.
If the best you can come up with when Alba's woes are mentioned are to shriek defectively about the SNP and its tainted former-leader who lives rent free in your mind, then you're scarcely any better than that puce-faced Labourite obsessive, Luke Akehurst, who deflects every criticism of Starmer with a roar of fury about Jeremy Corbyn.
The SNP members who abandoned the SNP and moved to Alba did not do so because they wanted to see a smaller, less successful version of the SNP. They left it because they found the climate toxic, the party leadership putting personal interests over party success, and an apparent disinterest in their central goal. If Alba is devolving into the same nonsense, wise people will quickly conclude that it simply becoming Salmond's little plaything, his little grift, and move on to create something for themselves.
Salmond was once a strong, shrewd, courageous leader. He no longer appears to be any of those things, and it's damaging Alba. Time to hand over to Ash Regan, and Salmond can go off and interview as many of his Conservative and Unionist chums as he pleases.
Anon at 3.53pm - your first sentence is a lie. Not a good start to a post. Bizarre even. Also I never said Alba had 50,000 members and most people would know that is the case. More bizarre stuff. My post compared what you were saying about Alba with the SNP and put it in perspective - you didn't like it - tough. Ever thought your post may come across as a rant or even someone shrieking in a disturbed way.
DeleteI wonder if any of the contributors here (especially the slightly overwrought and excitable ones) are not AI bots.
ReplyDeleteI think IFS is an older chatbot version dating back to 2014 that was used to get kinks out of as a beta. The swearyness gives it away. Later ones use LLM's as source and have rules to prevent swearing and the database they lookup has swear words removed or are flagged as only used in a certain context.
ReplyDeleteThe Programmers couldnae bring themselves to delete the source code and felt sorry for it. So allowed it to continue as an example for newer LLMs to learn from it regarding what not to do.
Anon at 2.22pm you really must try harder to be funny or people will think you are R2D2.
Delete