Tuesday, October 8, 2019

It's actually pretty remarkable that two-thirds of SNP voters expect a pre-2021 indyref

The drip-feed of results from the new Wings poll continues, but there's still no sign of the question that everyone thinks is coming.  (Maybe even before Christmas.)  In the meantime, Mr Campbell is taunting his critics with a result that he claims they won't like, ie. that 'only' two-thirds of SNP voters expect there to be an independence referendum before May 2021.  Frankly, that's a remarkably upbeat finding and all I can say is that I hope these people know something I don't.  I certainly haven't given up hope on a pre-2021 referendum, but given Nicola Sturgeon's apparent determination that the Section 30 process should be repeated, it's going to be like threading a needle.  The forthcoming election would probably need to produce a minority Labour government with the SNP holding the balance of power, and that's not an outcome that the SNP can contrive - it'll either happen by chance or it won't.

Incidentally, Mr Campbell uses an age-old trick to misrepresent the result of the poll - he combines the 21% of respondents who don't expect a pre-2021 referendum with those who said "Don't Know", in order to claim that "a third of SNP voters" are "unconvinced" by the First Minister's assurances that an early referendum is coming.  It would be just as easy to use the Don't Knows in the opposite way and claim that "79% of SNP voters don't share Mr Campbell's scepticism".  But a much fairer and more meaningful thing to do is simply to strip out the Don't Knows altogether, which would leave us with approximately 76% who anticipate a pre-2021 vote.

The second finding that Mr Campbell has announced with misplaced triumphalism is that 57% of respondents agree in principle with his cunning plan that the SNP should facilitate Brexit in return for the permanent transfer to the Scottish Parliament of the power to call independence referendums.  I'd have agreed to that proposition myself if I'd been answering the poll, but Mr Campbell is making the same fundamental mistake that the UK government has been making in the Brexit negotiations for the last three years - he thinks that a deal is something that you make with yourself.  Here's the snag: it wouldn't matter if the SNP were willing to cut a deal, because the Tory government are not (and never have been) remotely interested in agreeing to the required terms.  And in a way there's a degree of logic to that, because diehard unionists in the Tories and the DUP would probably walk away in disgust from any pro-Brexit coalition that included the SNP, on the grounds that it would "weaken the union".  It may well be that SNP votes wouldn't actually be able to deliver Brexit.

The SNP group in the Commons simply doesn't have the potential leverage with the Tories that Mr Campbell believes.  So what's Plan B, wise guy?

81 comments:

  1. For me SNP Strategy is clear..
    Expose the fact Scotland is virtually powerless to effect outcomes at Westminster.
    That's why we're going through the courts leaving no stone unturned.
    Only then will we see movement from don't know to Yes.
    London knows Scotland can't be held in the UK against its will.
    That's why they won't declare what an Indyref mandate would be.
    They're keeping their options open.
    This is like the last days of the USSR. It'll soon be time to make our move. 200,000 Scots can't be wrong.

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  2. No referendum soon.. watch SNP support tank through the floor as core voters stay at home in droves in 2021. I can't believe they don't know this. It won't be a case of 'well who else will we vote for ?' It'll be 'why vote at all'.

    No ref, goodbye SNP 2021. We're all losing faith in them as it is.

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    1. Who's this we you speak of

      Speak for yourself, if you don't like something, that's up to you, don't try roping in hundreds of thousands of others into your argument of gimmie ma sweeties now or I'll throw a tantrum, you're as bad as Wings

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    2. We = ordinary voters. They'll stay at home if the SNP don't even try to make a move towards an indy ref in the following few months after Brexit finally happens. Indy support and SNP support is already diverging as we can see by the polls. And we (the electorate ) got a taste in 2017 of what happens when the SNP don't focus or try to dismiss independence from their narratives in the run up to an election.

      The sad truth is that if major moves arent afoot to bring an indy ref into play very soon. Folks will stay at home rather than vote for more vague distant promises.

      It's not a case of throwing sweeties out prams. It already happened in 2017. The only thing that will energise and galvanise most indy supporters is an SNP front and center making or at least even attempting to make it happen.

      No attempt and the core indy supporters will drift off and all hope of a majority SNP at Holyrood disappears with them I'm afraid. Trust is wavering.

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    3. Major moves are afoot. Shame that you're so brainwashed now that you can't see it.

      Delete
  3. Stuart Campbell uses every old populist trick in the book to keep the numpty brigade on side by misrepresenting the facts just ever so slightly then presenting the unanswerable question to the numpties to argue over, and like wee doggies they lap it up

    He's got some of them defending him like he's some sort of all seeing all knowing fairground attraction where you put money in his slot and he taps out more garbage on his keyboard

    He does no work anymore, he just incites people like loads of folk have commented, just like Nigel Farage and he hasn't picked on any women this week yet, except Nicola Sturgeon but that's par for the course these days

    He did say a few months ago this would probably be Wings last year so I guess one more crowdfunder should do him

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    1. The Scottish Nat sis see the every day deaths of our people on the streets as expendable in their quest for the EU running Scottish affairs.

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    2. They do. I've said it before. Nat sis is a death cult. Seig heil mein furher.

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  4. If there is any truth to this, then the UK takes a step closer to full dictatorship.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10094898/boris-johnson-queen-sack-no-confidence/

    BECAUSE I SAID BO Brexit – Boris Johnson plans to tell Queen she can’t sack him even if he loses no confidence vote

    Johnson is showing all the signs of someone who will not relinquish power if he loses the democratic support needed to maintain it.

    The UK is primed for totalitarianism. Brexit, austerity, the loss of world status...

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    1. There is no truth in that. Just google Lascelles Principles. Heck, here they are:

      The Lascelles Principles were a constitutional convention in the United Kingdom between 1950 and 2011, under which the Sovereign could refuse a request from the Prime Minister to dissolve Parliament if three conditions were met:

      (1) if the existing Parliament was still "vital, viable, and capable of doing its job",
      (2) if a general election would be "detrimental to the national economy", and
      (3) if the Sovereign could "rely on finding another prime minister who could govern for a reasonable period with a working majority in the House of Commons".

      The convention has been in abeyance since 2011, when the Sovereign's prerogative power to dissolve Parliament was removed by the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011.

      I cannot see how on earth this could be used for Johnson to neutralise his sacking. They're about NOT holding elections. Indeed, the third point goes so far as to explictly suggest replacing the PM as one course to AVOID a snap election.

      And the whole thing hasn't been law since 2011. Absolutely desperate stuff.

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    2. Of course there is no truth to it. It's click bait put out to try and convince Brexiters that there is some master plan. It's up there with 'England will dump NI to get a deal'. As you say desperate delusional stuff, coming from 'Government sources' who know they are screwed when we are still in the EU on 1st November. The last throws of the 'hard Brexit' dream.

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    3. Erm, one one slight quibble...

      England already dumped N. Ireland to get a deal. It signed off the backstop! England negotiated a deal whereby NI left the UK single market and customs union to remain in the EU. That's near enough reunification as N. Ireland would be run as part of Ireland economically and socially!

      This went down like a lead balloon with the DUP who said it had to be UK wide or they'd bring down May's government. She agreed in the hope it could scupper brexit as the ERG would never accept an English backstop.

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    4. The UK cannot leave the EU without NI in staying behind in the EU.

      No deal makes fuck all difference to this. UK will just be in the same situation, but with empty shelves, soaring unemployment and riots.

      Neither the USA or the EU will sign a deal unless the backstop applies and nor will any other country wanting a deal with them.

      So it would be no deal forever until the backstop applies.

      Ergo, the UK will agree to the backstop if brexit happens.

      Johnson just handed over the single market for goods. Next will be the customs union.

      It's now too late for the DUP to stop it.

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    5. Your still thinking like there is some sort of master plan. Have a look at what Brexiters are saying now, they are full blown Unionists these days. They didn't give a shit about NI before, but now the Conservatives have managed to spin the line that the EU/Germans want to split it from the UK, they are never going to vote for a deal that has anything like a backstop in it.

      So there will be no last minute deal meaning that Boris has to ask for an extension in doing so any chance of an majority in the next GE.

      Labour, replying on LD and or SNP votes to get in power will negotiate a deal which will be for all intense and purposes be SM/CU UK wide giving the people the choice of that or not leaving the EU at all.

      As I said hard brexit is finished, its now 50/50 if Brexit happens at all.

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    6. No, there clearly isn't a plan, but brexit can't happen without the UK breaking up, which is something English brexit voters are fine with.

      There is no mileage in Boris throwing England under a bus to save N. Ireland from what it wants.

      As you say, the English nationalists risk no brexit at all if they don't dump N. Ireland, and accept Scotland will follow.

      For Scotland, indy is inevitable, brexit or not. The narrow Yes we see emerging now (while the UK is still firmly in the EU) isn't a direct result of brexit, but part of a continuing decline in Britishness that's been going on since the post-war consensus generation. On balance anyway. The empire will go full rise and fall; it's just a quest of how long the tail end stretches out for. With all generations under 65 backing it now, there cannot be long to go.

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    7. If you look at (English nationalist) brexit and Scottish indy as symptoms of final end of the British empire, it makes a lot more sense (than looking at them as causes). Boris is a symptom too; how far GB has fallen to such imbecilic scum at the helm. Real last days of Rome stuff.

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    8. Sorry you are living in the past, there is going to be no Brexit, not in any real sense anyhow, either we will stay or have BRINO.

      BRINO (SM/CU) will be the best option everyone will be happy. For Brexiters we will of left the EU, for remianers we still have the bits that people actually care about (free movement etc).

      Thats why the SNP are being quiet reserved about a second ref. If they really wanted to they could drop the need section 30 order and press ahead. But they know its pointless having a second ref on the back of a second EU ref that leads to remain/BRINO. People will look back the last few years and think fuck that and vote no; even if they want Indy at some point they will want a bit of stability first.

      Need to stop thinking that indy is just around the corner i would say looking at mid 2020's at the earliest

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    9. Actually, brexit being cancelled makes no difference to indy support, just as brexit being on the cards has. You are of the mistaken belief the two are directly related. The SNP made that gaff too. They still are to an extent.

      Independence will happen because Scots are just increasingly not British because British has been on the decline along with Britain. British identity peaked in those born just after the war, and has been in continuous decline since. Devolution rapidly accelerated this in the generation that came of voting age into that world. This is why young Scots hugely back indy; they're Scottish. The over 65's are the only group where British holds on.

      British people struggle to understand that though because they see British as a thing.

      Mid 2020's is possible. Could be sooner, but it's not really possible to stop, certainly not with England becoming increasingly English. Corybn and Bozo are both English nationalists. Both Lab and Con have embraced that, including EVEL.

      There is no going back.

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    10. And I note you, like so many, utterly fail to consider what the international community think about the timing of iref2 and how this is affecting SNP actions.

      I believe there is no iref happening right now because all the neighbours have said they'd prefer the SNP to do what they can to stop the UK blowing itself up and hurting everyone else in the process. Do that, and a Yes vote will be looked on favourably, even if it comes without the blessing of England and a section 30.

      A section 30 matters jack shit if the international community say it's not needed. If they say they want one, then there is little choice here. It's not what England thinks that matters; it's what everyone else thinks.

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    11. I considered it for about as long as other countries would. Climate change, the upcoming global economic downturn, trade wars, the middle east, security and terrorism, who will be the next German chancellor, who will be the next US president and a host of other things will be above Scotland and Independence; simply because it makes no difference to them if Scotland is Independent or not.

      The SNP are doing everything they can to stop Brexit because if the UK blows up Scotland blows up with it.

      Delete
  5. For the tens of thousands of labour voters who gave up on them ever delivering real social democracy, and for whom the sight of Lamont hugging Tories on the night of the referendum was the final straw, causing them to join the SNP as their last hope for seeing social democracy in Scotland, the idea of forming a coalition of any kind with the tories would be a breaking point with the SNP.

    Stu Campbell's cynicism has always been one of his many unattractive traits, but this idea is beyond the pale (I suspect) for the tens of thousands who joined the SNP, and (probably) for the hundreds of thousands of ex labour voters, who haven't joined the SNP, but vote SNP. The core attraction of the SNP for many Scots is their anti-Tory stance.

    Sometimes Stu is bang on the money, but on this occasion, he is talking out of his arse. Finger on the pulse? ...... I don't think so.

    I believe that "the" question is coming, that it will be a "bullshit" question, and when it does, those of us who agree with James Kelly about the impossibility of gaming the AMS are going to have to go to war with Stu and his acolytes, in exactly the same way as we did with the Solidarity and RISE folk in 2016. They were doing what they did for narrow political gain for themselves, and Stu would be doing it for exactly the same, selfish, egotistical reasons.

    If he does publish a bullshit question, and it "shows" that there is "massive support" for a Wings party, then hell mend him.
    Alex Birnie

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    1. the thing is Mr Campbell argued long and hard about the damage and ineffectiveness of voting for Solidarity and Rise so to refute his leading question, just quote his own words back at him.

      I'm not against a new pro indy party being formed, some folk vote SNP with hands on nose, but because a new party is needed not to act as an ego vehicle.

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  6. I would be interested in a one-issue Scottish Independence Party supported by Wings for the list vote. However, if it has the name "Wings" and only features a certain individual's quest for a Holyrood seat, forget it. I for one ain't going down that road.

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    1. Exactly. Bloody fish paste weirdies.

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  7. Stuart Campbell not content with insulting everybody of any opinion other than his own in his usual foul mouthed manner has now decided that SNP voters are morons too and has even posted an image of *one* telling him how unpopular with him he felt he was because as we all know every person on the internet who is foul mouthed is bad but it's perfectly acceptable for Stuart Campbell to tell people to F off on a constant basis

    This level of this man's self important behaviour and sense of significance has become maniacal now *It's my website and I will brook no other opinion so you can F off* the man believes he is the font of all knowledge, he's gone completely head case with this new found hatred of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon, he's always had a bit of a thing about attacking certain women because in his mind they're all stupid, but he's lost it entirely now

    The guy's a good and clever writer but he's filled with rage and bitterness for some crazy reason now and I for one won't even bother reading it again until he gets himself some medical help

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    1. ''The guy's a good and clever writer.'' Do you think so? Not if his tweets and comments on Wings are anything to go by. He probably pays someone else to do the writing of Wings articles for him.

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  8. Stuart Campbell has alienated all the SNP supporters from his website, he doesn't want them, apparently their not real Independence supporters like what his non existent party will be

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  9. I'm an SNP supporter and member and Stu Campbell has not alienated me from his website.

    Stop spouting yer anonymous pish, trollfeatures.


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    1. I wouldn't pay any attention to posts signed as 'Anonymous'. Everyone knows that's an automatic 'ignore'.

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    2. Well you spend your entire day telling everybody what you think so what's wrong with other people doing it anonymously because they don't want to enter into rammys with the likes of you and the defenders of the WIngs faithful club

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    3. I don't want to be alienated from the Wings website, but I'm not allowed to comment anymore, and he has removed the posts that I made, so he is doing his best to alienate me. I always attach my name to my posts, but apparently, Stu cannot abide people giving him honest opinions, unless they agree with his stance.
      Alex Birnie

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    4. Oh, I see the Reverend is posting on here the day. Maybe he can check his membership list and see if I'm on it.

      Delete
  10. Stu Campbell is a difficult character. He tends to rub a lot of people up the wrong way at the best of times. However, the seat of his current annoyance seems to be the utter inaction of the SNP in the face of the biggest open goal in three hundred years, and I'm bound to say that, love the guy or hate him (and I won't defend him if your choice is the latter), he's not wrong on this one. I asked the other day, and I'm repeating the question now: is the SNP caught in the headlights?

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    1. We've been told that Indyref2 will be announced when Brexit is clarified. It's not been clarified yet. What's hard to understand about that?

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    2. While you're waiting for Brexit to be clarified, I'll slip down to Glastonbury and dig up the Holy Grail.

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    3. Will you invite me to a dinner party in your house if I promise you I'll leave before 11pm? Will you let me lick your lips?

      Delete
  11. Brexit is steadily moving waverers from N->Y. Facilitating it now would be among the most criminally stupid self defeating moves in the history of politics. Worse than 79 which was a sort of understandable tantrum given the 40% rule.

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  12. Is there a particular reason you indignantly insist on removing the Don't Knows from the first question because it suits you better that way, but then DON'T remove them from the second question because it suits your argument better to change the method there? Just curious, like.

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    1. Is there any reason why you stripped out Don't Knows for the second question but not for the first? Just curious, like. To state the obvious, the reason I said what I did was to alert the unwary to your sleight of hand. The title of this blogpost contains the figures for the first question without Don't Knows excluded (and without a trace of "indignation"), so I'm not entirely sure what your complaint is here, and I'm not sure you know what your complaint is either.

      Delete
    2. So... no, then?

      (I didn't strip them out for either question, of course. I posted identical screenshots of the poll tables including all options.)

      Delete
    3. The answer to your query was "yes", not "no", but then you know that because you read the reason I gave in the comment you're responding to and are pretending not to understand. And, as you also know perfectly well, you DID strip out Don't Know responses in your write-up of the second question, but not of the first. Here is the relevant sentence -

      "This is a specific prospect raised on Wings way back in April, and again in July. And by a margin of exactly three to one, it’s a proposal that would be backed by SNP voters."

      The only way you get a margin of "exactly three to one" is by ignoring Don't Knows. Compare and contrast with what you said about the first question -

      "A third of SNP voters are unconvinced by the First Minister’s constant assurances that a second indyref will be delivered in the next 18 months."

      The actual figure, of course, is only 21%, but you're pretending it's "a third" by lumping in the Don't Knows.

      So which is it, Mr Campbell? Should Don't Knows be taken into account or not?

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    4. Most independence voters are not members of the SNP. His polls are surperflueous.

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    5. It's actually embarrassing to watch you once again demonstrate your contempt for the intelligence of readers. I showed people the numbers, in full, and then made an accurate related extrapolation from them. You made a big song-and-dance about that, but then in the next breath quoted the 57% number to make it sound smaller, when by your own *cough* principles you should have said 75%.

      (And you were talking about the actual result, not a separate extrapolation from it, so you really have no excuse whatsoever.)

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    6. What is "surperflueous" exactly? What do SNP members have to do with anything? You understand that people don't have to be party members to vote in elections, right?

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    7. "So, y'know, on with what we always do: reporting the facts"

      Ah yes - those heady days when Stu used to report the facts. Those were the days!

      Nowadays he does exactly the same as what he used to castigate unionist journalists for - twist the facts to suit his own agenda.

      Stu Campbell - the Stephen Daisley of the yes movement.

      I've got to post this on here now, because I'm banned from posting on the Wings site - or at least my posts (exactly like this one) are removed after moderation.

      Alex Birnie

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    8. Ah, I see you're "embarrassed" again, Reverend. You know, given your long history of abusive behaviour on social media, and the fact that you truly seem to imagine that you might be the next Deputy First Minister, it really is pretty extraordinary that the only thing you can find to be "embarrassed" about is that other people might dare to express a dissenting view now and again.

      I do realise it's inconvenient for you that I actually managed to produce quotes that irrefutably demonstrated your absurd double-standard on the treatment of Don't Knows (and indeed your brazen hypocrisy in accusing me of doing the same), but I'm not sure pretending that it didn't happen is going to help.

      Just on the off chance that you genuinely didn't bother reading my earlier answer, I'll repeat it: I demonstrated what would happen if Don't Knows were treated differently on the first question to alert the unwary to your sleight of hand about "one third of SNP members being unconvinced". If you hadn't been playing silly games, the point wouldn't have needed to be made. (And it was made in passing, not as the central point of the blogpost, as can be seen from the use of the word 'incidentally' and the fact that the statistic in the title of the post does not strip out Don't Knows).

      Now, I've said that twice, and to use your own phrase, you really have no excuse whatsoever for continuing to pretend that you don't understand the point.

      Delete
  13. Stu has been sussed, and he is squirming. I'm becoming more and more convinced that the killer question, the one he's leading his acolytes carefully up the garden path towards, as he drip feeds us with anti-SNP interpretations of loaded questions, is going to be a bullshit question that will "prove" that he has sufficient numbers to form "Stu Campbell's Vote Stu Campbell for more Stu Campbell" Party. At least Ruth Davidson had a cabinet of sorts, that she had to answer to, and she didn't claim ownership of her party, (even though she renamed it in all her election leaflets).

    Do ALL egotists finally disappear up their own anus, as Stu seems to be doing?
    Alex Birnie

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    1. Yes. If they smear fish paste on their lips.

      Delete
  14. Derek Rogers: As I've said to you before, please educate yourself on the AMS voting system before attempting to comment any further on the subject. I can't allow you to mislead people, and I haven't got unlimited time available to continue rebutting your novel-length comments in detail. This really is getting pretty tiresome - most people would have done some reading after the first correction.

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  15. Giving yourself the title Rev clearly means a person with an ego and someone who wants to be adored by its followers.

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    1. How transphobic. People can identify as a reverend if they want to. Who are you to tell them they are not one. If they feel they are then they are. Leave transrevs alone.

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    2. I like Episcopalian dyke Reverends. The kaffliks should have them and prevent child abuse.

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    3. So you smear fish paste on your lips to let cats lick them? You appal me GWC.

      Delete


  16. What I don't get is the following comment on the latest Wings poll, ''We should probably have given you a bit of warning for that one. Remember, this is a poll of SNP VOTERS ONLY, but almost a quarter are willing to give up on independence “for the foreseeable future” if it saves England and Wales from the Brexit they voted for three and a half years ago and still want to happen. To be honest, we weren’t expecting that.''

    Did saving England and Wales feature in the poll? Maybe he's forgotten that 62% of Scots voted to remain in the EU and that could be their overriding concern right now. EU membership first. Independence second.

    Stop trying to con people Mr Campbell.

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    1. Scots only voted for the EU because they were stupid enough to think the EU masters would give them more social security benefits. The EU are the social security they spend all our tax on themselves and their flozzies. Wake up Jocks.

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    2. 'Scots only voted for the EU because they were stupid...'.

      Nice. Real vote winner that.

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    3. You nick picked there Skier. You had better watch out the Rev disnae sue you.

      Delete
    4. No, you called all Scots who voted Remain 'stupid'. It's right there above. You also included why you believed them all stupid.

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    5. I did not say all. We Scots who voted not to give the EU regime a billion each month are sensibles.

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    6. Have you run out of fish paste now, GWC? Oh yes, it's all out in the open now. We know the whole story.

      Delete
  17. Looks like Stu is losing it to me

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    1. Been to see the Joker movie yet, mate? Or would they not let you in?

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    2. No. They don't let people in who have smeared fish paste on their lips.

      Delete
  18. Can anyone explain why DJ Trump is the most evil man on Earth for betraying our brave Kurdish allies when he's just continuing the policy position held by Bush, Clinton, Bush2 and O'Bama?

    Trump Derangement Syndrome is real. Same as SNP Bad virus in Scotland.


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    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    2. I don't like him because he's a racist sex pest.

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    3. Trump is representative of an isolationist strain in the American psyche which has been dormant since the Second World War, but has always been present. By withdrawing from Syria, he's doing exactly what he said he'd do, and what people voted for - disentangling the US from foreign engagements. But all actions have consequences and Sultan Erdogan taking advantage of the vacuum is the consequence here. So if there is dismay in America at this, it's for two reasons - one IS Trump Derangement Syndrome. It's a real thing and for most of the MSM and a sizable section of society, whatever he does will always be wrong. The other is Trump supporters not being careful about what they wished for. As I say, every action has consequences.

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    4. Scottish Skier - what makes Trump a racist? The sexist bit, maybe, but while he has been repeatedly accused of it, I've never seen anyone make their case on racism. Not liking someone doesn't make them the receptacle of evil.

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    5. If he's not racist, he certainly puts on a great act.

      https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/06/trump-racism-comments/588067/

      In which case I dislike him because he's a dickhead and a sex pest.

      Delete
    6. Athanasius - you're like a receptacle for fish paste.

      Delete
  19. Anon-whose-comments-I've-just-deleted: I always try to cut you some slack, as you know, but you can't seriously expect me to leave up comments that make libellous claims about named politicians and then call for a named journalist to be murdered. You quite often make perfectly legitimate points, and then make it impossible for me to leave them up by chucking in something completely outrageous. I dare say it's all meant satirically, but come on.

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    1. Annoying how I always arrive too late to see these wacky posts

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    2. Same here. I always miss the fun.

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  20. I'm sorry to say that, having thought the Wings blog and twitter superb ever since I discovered them several years ago, I've become reluctant to check them out so often. It started with the idea of a Wings party for the list seats: if you really want to help the independence cause, you don't confuse the independence supporters who support your site by advancing the idea of another party to vote for, and if you have any criticism of the SNP, it should be constructive and restrained, always bearing the vital importance of the ultimate aim in mind. Those of us who worked for the cause for years before it reached the current point of almost achieving its goal are all too familiar with the squabbles and careless self-inflicted damage which scuppered it in the past.

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  21. Stu Campbell's full-scale assault on the SNP continues unabated today. He is back into his "trans-bashing" mode, trying to inflame SNP members against the leadership. The arguments that Stu is using are very similar to the arguments used against those who were trying to liberalise the laws on homosexuality....... "If these homos are set loose, none of our children will be safe".

    One contributor suggested that women would be in danger of being sexually assaulted by a man "pretending" to be a woman. I have no idea how many men there are in this world who are willing to go to the lengths of self-identifying as women, in order to get opportunities to attack women in toilets, but I don't think that we are going to be swamped.

    The only difference between this present debate, and the debate had in the past about legalising homosexuality, is that both sides this time are equally vicious and extremist in their attacks on each other.

    On this issue, I bow to the superior wisdom of Paul Kavanagh (Wee Ginger Dug), who wrote an excellent blog about it some months ago, calling for moderation and courtesy.

    Stu seems to be interested in it, solely as a cudgel with which to beat the SNP, in his ongoing drive to plonk his arse down into a seat in Holyrood. Cynical? Absolutely! Is he betraying the yes movement? Definitely! His ego is now running amok.....
    Alex Birnie

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    1. He has point about homos being on the loose. The Catholic Church have been buggering children for centuries and have paid out billions in compensation.

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    2. At least they didn't smear fish paste on their lips.

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  22. Of course the question he asked in the latest WoS poll was incorrect.

    "The SNP has announced its intention to implement legislation, whereby physically male people will have unrestricted access to all female spaces and services"

    Of course this a lie as transgender people do not have unrestricted access to places such as toilets, hospital wards, changing rooms, sporting competitions and women's refuges. Restrictions have been in place for the best part of a decade, there are no plans to to loosen them and they have nothing to do with the GRA in its current or proposed reformed form.

    As I have said before there is nothing wrong with with not supporting self id, but have genuine reasons for it, not bullshit reasons.

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    1. You want fannymen and williegirls to smear fish paste on their lips as well as normal people. Weird.

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