Tuesday, December 1, 2015

How many MPs will vote to bomb Syria?

The conventional wisdom at the moment seems to be that only 30 or 40 right-wing Labour MPs will go into the Tory lobby tomorrow night to vote in favour of bombing Syria.  That's a suspiciously low estimate, and is in the same ball-park as the number that might have defied Corbyn's whip if he had bothered to impose it.  So I'll believe it when I see it, but for the sake of argument let's take the upper figure of 40 at face value, and let's also assume that the Lib Dems will vote with the Tories (which inexplicably they seem to be moving towards), and that there will be around 10 Conservative rebels.  That leaves us with -

Voting for air strikes :

Conservatives 319
Labour 40
DUP 8
Liberal Democrats 8
UUP 2
UKIP 1
Independent 1

TOTAL : 379

Voting against air strikes or abstaining :

Labour 189
SNP 54
Conservatives 10
Plaid Cymru 3
SDLP 3
Independents (suspended from SNP) 2
Greens 1

TOTAL : 262

I'm making some other guesses there, because the last I heard Douglas Carswell of UKIP and the independent Northern Ireland unionist Sylvia Hermon were both claiming to be genuinely undecided.  But given their political orientation I find it hard to believe they won't come down in favour of British military action in the end.

As you can see, there's no realistic way Cameron can lose this vote.  The most that can be hoped for is that as few as possible Labour MPs cop out by abstaining.  If something close to 262 MPs actually vote against air strikes, that would at least severely undermine the claim that there is any sort of broad consensus.  It looks like 57 out of 59 Scottish MPs will be voting against, so it certainly can't be claimed that the UK as a whole is united behind military action.

63 comments:

  1. Who are the two Scots MPs voting for, James? I would have thought that Alistair Carmichael, Mundell and Ian Murray would all have been in favour (and, although Labour are all over the place on this, I have seen suggestions elsewhere that the last-named will vote in favour). So, if you think only two, which of the three is it you think will be voting against? I'm not arguing the point, as I'm no insider and don't have the foggiest myself. Just interested to hear your interpretation.

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    1. From what I understand Ian Murray is voting against, but I may be wrong.

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    2. Ah. Thanks, James. It will all become clear soon either way, I guess!

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  2. There is also going to be a cross party, Tory, Labour, SNP, Paid etc amendment to be voted on. Noteworthy that LibDems have not associated themselves with the amendment. Their vote for airstrikes against the background of the overwhelming majority of opposition MPs voting against will confirm that they have learn no lessons from their defeat.

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  3. It could just be me and it's maybe not generally applicable but it seems to me that most of those of the two main parties speaking out against bombing are of older generations, ie Edward Leigh. What's that all about? I'd be inclined to suggest firstly that it's experience telling them it could be folly but then Blairites have that experience too so I am not sure it's that. Could it be that these people are of the mind that their careers are nearly by with and so are less afraid of speaking out as 'I'm nearly done anyway, the media can't harm my prospects'? I'm not saying I am correct, just a trend I thought I had picked up on.

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    1. Some tory backbenchers have routes of communication with the military that isn't just the vapid tabloid spin thrown out by CCHQ. They were being briefed by military sources that Cameron's dodgy dossier had nowt to do with them (for obvious reasons) as well as just how far into complete fantasy and wishful thinking it strayed.

      Needless to say those in Labour who aren't completely deluded Blairites do actually remember what happened with Iraq and Afghanistan. So when this came along it didn't even need Hameron's sub-Blarite spin on it since Syria is a flashing neon sign that has "SHAMBOLIC QUAGMIRE" written all over it.

      Particularly when you take even five minutes to look at the actual situation on the ground and the many, MANY factions, countries and interests all competing to advance their interests not just inside Syria but across the entire region as the bloody civil war rages on and intensifies.

      There is absolutely zero prospect of this ending tidily or soon so there will be a very heavy price to pay for those cheering on the carnage and peddling imaginary, simplistic, childlike spin and solutions, just as there was for Iraq and Afghanistan.

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  4. I am so angry at Jeremy Corbyn, I could spit! He has weighed the lives of Syrian children against the solidarity of the Labour party and his answer is "sorry kids!". The arithmetic didn't need to be decisive - as long as there was a doubt, Cameron would have "bravely ran away", and even if he hadn't, the numbers would have shut down the worst of his upcoming rhetoric about "the will of parliament". It is time we got away from this cess pit! Please Nicola - call the referendum! Let's raise our independent voice in the UN against these murderers! People are going to die in greater numbers in Syria, and later, people are going to die in our big cities as Daesh retaliates.

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  5. Very interesting development tonight.

    The Westminster Foreign Affairs Committee has just voted to NOT support Cameron/Bombing Syria - even though its Chair does.

    So, the Committee on which Cameron relied for his phantom 70,000 pro-Western boots on the ground, have now walked away from his plan.

    Wonder if this will affect both the Labour rebels and Tory dissenters?

    Maybe the numbers will change quite dramatically, before tomorrow's Vote?

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  6. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 7:17 PM

    When IS are defeated and the mass graves are dug up I wonder if any of the fascist appeasers will have the decency to hang their heads in shame. Probably not. Please do sleep safely in your beds gentlemen.

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    1. You get good military action and bad military action. In the "bad" column you have Iraq 2003 and Libya. But in the "good" column:

      WW1 and WW2
      Korea
      The Falklands
      Iraq 1991
      The Balkans
      Sierra Leone
      Afghanistan

      It would be quite funny if ISIS are destroyed and order restored. What will the SNP and Corbynite socialists say then? The Corbynites will email the party membership to see what they should do next. The SNP will moan about the "vow"...

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  7. You mean like we "defeated" Al Queda?

    Most that will happen, is that they will split into even more groupings and have a re-naming ceremony.

    Surely, even you, as an acknowledged Unionist Dummy, are not so dense as to believe what you just spouted?

    Then again, you are not the sharpest tack in the box, are you.

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    1. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 7:41 PM

      Name calling again David. Ok it does not bother you people being slaughtered.
      However it does bother us anti fascists. Now be a good chap and turn your heating up and stay comfy whist your fellow humans are being killed and humiliated.

      Delete
    2. Please don't feed the troll anything but cereal...

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 7:52 PM

      David, my heating allowance was in the bank today courtesy of Gordon Brown a man of the people. Whit progressive policy have the Jock Tories ever produced!

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    4. McGibbon........how,exactly, does agreeing with a cross-bench Westminster Committee, make me a Nazi?

      Are they Nazis too?

      Please enlighten us all with your deep thoughts as to why that Committee, with all the facts before it, is wrong - whereas you, with your cranium stuck firmly up your, or someone else's rectum, is right?

      By the way, let's see if you can complete one post without reference to your bum-chum, Adolf.

      Delete
    5. Please don't feed the troll...

      Delete
    6. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 8:46 PM

      David, I am sure I did not call you a Nazi. However it is a duty of socialism to fight fascism. Attacking IS is attacking fascism.

      Delete
    7. I am an SNP member, McGibbon - and by your all-too-numerous posts on here, I am therefore a Nazi

      Unless, of course, you are retracting what you have said almost since your first submission?

      Delete
  8. Cameron and his bomber command will have done their phoning round and have a pretty good idea who is going to support them in the Labour ranks.
    Otherwise,there would be no vote.
    At least,as far as Corbyn and the Labour membership are concerned,this will flush out the Blairites for all to see.
    The price,however,in innocent Syrian lives lost will be high.
    Daesh do not live in tents in the desert waiting to be attacked by HM air force and will hide in centres of population.
    This is an utter disgrace and although it is what you would expect from the nasty party,those politicians masquerading as socialists in the Labour party will have much to answer for.

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    1. Rather than engaging in a campaign of intimidation, ostracisation and de selection, the Labour Party should appoint one of these Blairite moderates as its leader - or face total destruction in 2020.

      Alternatively, the Blairites could cross the floor. Let's face it - dozens of them have a greater chance of being elected as a tory next time.

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  9. The UK as a whole can never be united behind anything - it's a big place with lots of people!

    It's interesting that the Scottish element of the vote will be something like 57-2 against. Would a poll of Scottish public opinion be in keeping with that - or will the overall UK vote be more in line with Scottish public opinion? I suspect the latter. The Scots may be represented by pacifistic lefties - but the representation is divergent to what ordinary people actually believe.

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    1. "The UK as a whole can never be united behind anything"

      I think you'll find it was united behind military action in the Second World War, Aldo. Depending on how Welsh Labour MPs break, it's quite possible that two of the UK's four constituent countries will vote against air strikes tomorrow night.

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    2. Irrelevant. They comprise a tiny percentage of the population.

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  10. Why is not supporting a plan full of holes, pacifist?

    Is the Defence Committee pacifist, also?

    Or, do they and the Scots just have more brains than the Conservative Sexual Blackmailers?

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    1. To not want to respond to the Paris outrage is pacifistic David. This was an attack here, in Europe, that killed 132 people. They killed about 30 Brits in Tunisia over the summer. They bombed a Russian aircraft. They are trying to attack mainland Britain.

      To want to sit on your hands and not attack these people is a betrayal. What next - bend over and take it up the bahookie? Is that what it will take?

      "This sodomisation is most unpleasant but I would refrain from bombing at the moment".

      We need men in charge - and, thankfully, there are just enough of them left to pass this tomorrow.

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    2. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM

      Dinnae be bothered Aldo real men and women will step forward. The Jock Tories will dae whit wee Eck tells them as they did over the Balkans. Good old word Bahookie rarely used now but a good description of Jock Tories and the pretend left.

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    3. Aldo, you Tory Tosser, the majority Party on that Committee were your fellow Conservative fluff-balls and they still voted to run away from Pig Shagger's plan.

      Even they could see what a complete mess it is.

      Even good old Tory grandee, Max Hastings is against it now.

      Latest rumour is that up to 20% of Tory back-benchers still have serious doubts and that Labour rebels are having severe second thoughts about backing Cameron.

      Looks like the Bullingdon Swine Rider could well lose the vote.

      If he does, will he resign and let Coke-Head take over early?

      This could well be Cameron's Iraq and could make the Tories poll-lead completely disappear.

      There has recently been a massive delivery of Fanny Pads to Conservative Central Office - just a coincidence?

      You, of course, have your own special supply via Yodel.

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    4. Can't wait to see the nats and peaceniks spanked again.

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    5. LOL!

      Doesn't surprise me in the least, that you like thinking of "Spanking", you little Tory Pervert.

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    6. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 9:43 PM

      David, when will you Jock Tories stop going on about yer Tory Pals. Did ye know this is the 50th anniversary of Rosa Parks being arrested on a bus in Alabama. Guess what IS would decapitate her. She was a Christian. Get with the programme David you know it makes sense. Down with fascism bread for the proletariat.

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    7. Just read tonight newly publicised details about the treatment meeted out to the captured Israeli athletes by Palestinian terrorists in 1972. One of them was castrated while in captivity.

      Fuck tip toeing around these people any more and worrying about collateral damage. Bomb them. Bomb them until there is nothing left. Erase the ISIS capital, Raqqa.

      But that wont happen. What will happen is relatively soft. Yet still we have the beardies and sep tw@ts opposing it. Unreal.

      Delete
  11. This increasingly looks like a diversion from Tory economic failures as I posted* in the last thread. If the English electorate aren't even convinced that the UK is economically successful, that doesn't bode well for convincing the Scottish electorate of the benefits of continued union.

    ---
    *here

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2015/12/housekeeping-note.html?showComment=1448988644746#c5626584946023839583

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2015/12/housekeeping-note.html?showComment=1449001852584#c7741702986110781630

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  12. OMG. Cameron now calling his own Foreign Affairs Select Committee a 'bunch of terrorist sympathisers'.

    He's losing it.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34980061

    I've notice him becoming increasingly irrational and confused recently. This ties in with that. I'm not really sure he's up to the job.

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    1. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 10:26 PM

      Cameron actually called Corbyn & Co terrorist supporters. Get yer facts right Skier.

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    2. He's been looking even more ham-faced than usual since his best chum Lord Feldman was put firmly in the frame for the nasty party bullying/sex/suicide scandal.

      If there's one thing that the Hameron's twit chumocracy can't abide it's the impertinent idea that rules or basic standards of decency apply to them. Rules, morals, fighting wars/civilian casualties, basic judgement when it comes to your chums, al those are for the 'little people' and certainly not something to sully the hands of fop and his cabinet of public school twits.

      That and the fact that no matter how bad Corbyn and the Labour party look right now, there isn't going to be an historic referendum to decide Labour's position from now on in when it comes to the type of foreign policy that Labour members most care about. Whereas Hameron knows there absolutely is next year for the tories and their members. Even through the Labour noise it's starting to filter through to even the dimmest and most gullible tories that the EU referendum is going to decide if the tories are going to be a pro-EU and pro-EU immigration party (as Hameron's chumocracy wants) or not. With roughly 70% of tory members and activists against, I've got a feeling all the nasty party hysteria and hubris about Labour's current shambles will be HUGELY enjoyable and well worth quoting back when it's their turn to fall apart into bitter infighting next year. :D

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  13. As idiotic, ineffectual and weak as Corbyn has proved to be it looks very like I've been proved right yet again in that you should never underestimate Clegg's ostrich faction in their ability to turn a disaster into an utter calamity. Their 'position' (LOL) on Syria somehow manages to make Labour's almost look good and principled. Almost.

    For those who don't know, no less a figure than Calamity Clegg himself took to the airwaves and cut the knees right off the inept, feeble Farron by announcing the massed ranks of lib dem MPs (all 7 of them) had done a U-turn and were going to back Hameron and the bombing. This despite Farron's stated '5 tests' that had to be passed for military action. Tests which self-evidently have not even come close to being met.

    Imagine, if you will, Corbyn speaking strongly against bombing and then out of the blue at the 11th hour Blair toddles into the TV studios to announce Labour MPs would all back Cameron's bombing. Not really the most persuasive and competent way to do things, to say the least. ;)

    Sadly for Labour the lib dems are such an irrelevance now nobody will give much of shit what their position is but, rest assured, having CLEGG (of all people) pop up to give the public 'reassurance' might, just might, backfire just a touch.

    As everyone but Clegg's ostrich faction and a few deranged far-right tories know, Clegg is still utterly toxic and to the public he is the very embodiment of what an unprincipled untrustworthy politician looks like.

    Not to mention how this will look to those remaining lib dem members and activists who might still naively be clinging to the idea that Clegg's ostrich faction aren't running the show anymore. (as well as the somewhat pertinent fact that lib dem members just voted convincingly against Hameron's dodgy dossier and bombing)

    Yeah, not exactly difficult to see how this incoherent shambles is going to play out for the foreseeable future going by the comically weak, incompetent westminster bubble 'leadership' backing it or abdicating responsibility for it.

    Roll on May.

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    1. Someone really ought to tell Clegg that the Tories don't need them any more but I suppose old habits die hard.

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    2. If I were that much of a betting man Lawrence I'd be looking for the odds on Farron going out the door before too long because there is simply no way on earth he can function as 'leader' when the previous toxic leader just went on national TV and basically just humiliated him, treated him like an irrelevance and bounced him into supporting the tories on a matter of war and peace.

      It's also stretching credibility way, way, WAY beyond breaking point to claim anyone (even Farron) would be mad enough to want CLEGG announce your new bombing policy U-turn on live TV - instead of the leader - on military action in the middle east where public TRUST is so obviously such a massive factor.

      This also forced Farron to hurriedly draught and send out and a comically incoherent email (because as we all know you tell your party and the country why you suddenly changed your mind on such a serious matter by email LOL) trying (and conspicuously failing) to explain his U-turn on the five tests, bombing and supporting Cameron

      Truth be told Farron has been looking hopelessly out of touch and out of his depth for a while now and if the shrieking right-wing media weren't obsessing over Corbyn he'd likely be getting roasted alive.

      For example, how in the name of god did Farron manage to miss the fact that Rennard was clearly unrepentant and going to stand for the Federal Executive?? Utterly mind-boggling.

      Then when Rennard did stand and win Farron was again completely at a loss for what to do and just hid from the press and his members hoping that it all would go away. Keenly displaying what it takes to be one of the ostrich faction's finest :D

      Indeed the only reason he eventually came out of hiding and belatedly said anything at all on the subject was when members scheduled a special conference which would almost certainly have forced Rennard out. Knowing that meeting has been scheduled and members weren't about to change their minds Farron finally popped out of hiding to ask Rennard to quit. Then Rennard (knowing the game was up anyway since the special conference was only ever going to end with him out) finally quit. But, it was the members, not Farron, who forced Rennard to think again. Farron just saw the writing on the wall and sided with them when he knew he couldn't possibly stop them and couldn't think of anything else to do.

      Then there's Farron and the lib dem's 'position' on Trident which, again, somehow almost manages to make Labour's utter shambles on Trident look coherent it is so jawdroppingly unprincipled, vague and shambolic.

      Bottom line is that as long as the public don't really give a crap about the lib dems (and they most assuredly don't, now and for the foreseeable future) then Clegg can happily shit all over Farron's leadership and nobody will care. It is pretty funny to watch admittedly.

      Why it's taking the lib dems so long to realise the bloody obvious - that the toxic calamity Clegg has to go bye-bye and stop reminding the public why they don't trust the lib dems - is anyone's guess though.

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  14. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 10:48 PM

    There ye go it is official those with more money and expensive properties are getting richer under the Tartan Jock Tories.

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  15. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 1, 2015 at 10:53 PM

    Murdo Frazer Tory to support Tartan Jock Tory council tax freeze. Two cheeks same Behookie.

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  16. YouGov/Times: Support for extending strikes against Islamic State to Syria has dropped from 59% last week to 48% now.

    Seems that the British Public does NOT want to bomb Syria.

    Hope the Labour rebels and sensible Tories are listening.

    Really is beginning to look like Cameron might, indeed, lose the vote.

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    1. Well, it's 48% in favour, 31% against. I'll be interested to see the Scottish subsample.

      There's no way Cameron can lose the vote. With the Lib Dems and DUP on board, he can withstand a small Tory rebellion even if Labour are united against him - which, to put it mildly, they won't be.

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    2. 48% in support. 30% against. I make that a double digit lead.

      If there was any chance - ANY chance of losing - they would cancel the vote and say "we tried - but this assorted bunch of weirdos don't think we should do anything about terrorism".

      The vote will go through - too many rebellious labour MPs, too many ambitious tory ones.

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    3. A majority of British People in this latest poll, tonight, did NOT support bombing Syria.

      Simple.

      Just watched Newsnight on BBC2 and saw an audience-participation in that programme, with both sides of the argument put forward by the pro and anti bombing sides.

      At the end, the audience members who had changed their minds were ALL pro-bombing who had shifted to no-bombing.

      Anecdotal, perhaps - but fully in tune with the poll.

      I believe that public and expert ( Foreign Affairs Committee) opinion, is now against Cameron.

      With a full day's debate still to come, I believe that the vote could well be lost by the Tories.

      Cameron's position would then become very precarious, if not untenable.

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    4. Of those who are educated enough to care, most support bombing Syria. That's a majority. And if you take issue with that interpretation I expect to see you getting equally wound up any time 47% indy support is represented as 52% in the headline figures.

      We'll see how it goes. Cameron and his government are quite a professional outfit. If there was the remotest chance they might lose this vote, there wouldn't be a vote.

      Delete
    5. No.

      This poll is a hammer-blow to the Tories on this issue - and they know it.

      Delete
    6. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 12:59 AM

      David, you enjoy yer home comforts while fascists are killing. Maybe after it is all over you could go over and identify the dead. Take a shovel with you and stuff some vick up yer nose. It is really a pleasant aromo.

      Delete
    7. Yeah, McGibbon.

      Almost everything that the UK has done, over the last few decades in the ME, has not led to more innocent deaths and more terrorism - much!

      Do we ever learn from our horrendous, stupid, mistakes in that area of the world?

      Going by your simplistic verbiage, you certainly have not.

      Delete
    8. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 10:15 PM

      We just buy their oil. It is up to them how they distribute the money. Not our fault they cannae agree a fair distribution. In fact the mad mullahs enjoy their money and power.

      Delete
  17. I am bemused at how the Syria strikes have become a kind of rallying point for the left. They seem to choose the strangest issues upon which to pin their colours to the mast. In Scotland it's fracking. At UK level, Syria. Yet neither of these fixations offers an improved life for poor, working class people. Quite the opposite - destroying ISIS makes your average person more secure. Fracking makes him or her more likely to get a job and pay cheaper energy bills. Yet our left, in Britain, North and South of the border,are opposed to both policies.

    It seems the conservatives are truly the party of the working person. The left once dominated that side of politics but gave it up to pursue "right on", politically correct and liberal policies. Their fate is sealed.

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  18. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 12:35 AM

    Nice tae see Scotland is still anti fascist... with a few hard left exceptions of course who think Zionists! are tae blame for the Worlds ills. Is that right Anon?

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  19. Imagine our surprise that the two twatty tory trolls are a pair of dumbass NeoCon chickenhawks (both even more witless than Bush somehow) who seem curiously reluctant to put on their little tin hats and do the fighting themselves.

    Shouldn't you tiny-brained Cameroon cheerleaders be spending all your time trying to persuade your own family and friends (I know LOL) of fighting age to join up and bomb that obvious new Hitler Saddam, sorry Assad, sorry Al-Qaeda, sorry ISIS.

    Yeah, didn't fucking think so.

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    1. So you can't support military action unless you sign up for it yourself? Even if that stood up to logical scrutiny - which it clearly doesn't - the government doesn't need millions of civilians turning up at the nearest army recruitment centre. They need trained RAF pilots - and they've got them already.

      And they don't wear "little tin hats" either.

      Delete
    2. I note that Mick Pork is allowed to swear, in a frankly unhumourous, but justifiable way. More or less what you accused me of.

      Yeah, didn't fucking think so.

      What's the difference between me and he?

      I get a warning, he gets what?

      Your inconsistency is spelt out pretty neatly just there James.

      Care to discuss what you ought to do?

      Thought not.

      I will continue to read your very good posts. I doubt I will ever comment here again. Unless you say 'good riddance' or words to that effect. Which is a way to piss off your supporters who do not have your prissy approach to industrial language, unless, of course it is Mick Pork.

      Wonderful strategy James.





      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 7:26 PM

      Mr Clark. A blog and the threads are to instigate debate and sometimes with a bit of humour. It is not a mutual agreement society with pals and supporters slapping each other on the back because of 'we are right' and no one dare disagree. If you want that type of thing join a Madras.
      Get a life and moreso grow up.

      Delete
    4. GWC,

      You give up on calling me a Nazi, and I will believe you possess a humour bone. But your continual agenda that I am a Nazi -, anyone that wants to vote for independence in a Nazi - is frankly beyond the pale.

      It is not in the slightest bit humourous

      That you think it is satire or summat is frankly how one gets to a complete alienation

      Viz-a-viz the Northern Ireland situation of recent memory. It was very, very difficult for Catholics and Protestants to reconcile, mainly because of the rhetoric.

      I am not a Nazi. As I pointed out to you my father actually fought against the Nazi's. I would not disrespect him by admiring Nazi's. Nor has my reading about the Holocaust have changed my mind. They were evil people and you, aligning my politics with these nut jobs?

      Just stop it.

      I assume you have no evil intent to eliminate Gaelic speakers or English immigrants?

      Neither have I.

      I think, contrary to others, that you are a Glaswegian, your trolleybus story checked out, and not a lot of non-Glaswegians would have known that.

      However.

      Y'know what?

      Calling anyone a Nat-sis or whatever other close proximity to Nazi that you can think up is a hell of a lot worse than swearing.

      You think that is 'fun'?

      Apparently OGH agrees with you.

      I know, more or less exactly who I am.

      And so do you. I am no Nazi.

      Out of sorts with you and OGH for sure, Nazi, no.








      Delete
    5. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 9:01 PM

      Have never called you a Nazi. Maybe Nat si. Nazi is short for National Socialist. Socialist is not and has never had anything to do with the right wing Tartan Tory SNP. I do hope this can enter your brain!

      Delete
    6. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 9:29 PM

      Douglas, why check out the trolleybus story. Who would lie about a trolleybus.
      Goodness me are you Jock MI5!
      My da was in logistics during WW2 in the Middle East. Part Duty was body disposal. He always did say he had a five year paid holiday away from the tenements. I once asked him how he could cope, his reply, you can do anything with over half a bottle of whisky in the system. So let us hope we stop the killing fields soon.
      I believe the majority of the SNP want rid of this IS but are playing politics. If Cameron and Co screw up they will benefit. If Cameron is right then it will be forgotten. Win win for the Nat sis. Life is cheap.

      Delete
    7. "Care to discuss what you ought to do?

      Thought not."


      Oh for pity's sake, if you want to ask me a question, ask it. Don't answer it on my behalf.

      Since when did I become "OGH"?

      Delete
    8. OGH = Our Good Host.

      You appear squeamish about some people swearing, me, and not care so much about others such as Mick Pork, who legitimately swore here.

      You have no concept of what is right and what is wrong in a debate about either swearing, nor about ludicrous tolerance for folk that call me a Nazi.

      Frankly, I think you have misunderstood the whole concept of moderating a blog.

      But that's just me James.Your mileage obviously varies.

      Final point.

      I expect, if everything else is equal, to be allowed to comment here without being accused of being a Nazi.

      I expect, all other things being equal, not to be upset by you or anyone else, when I comment here.

      For goodness sake, James! You must know you are going down a wormhole from which there will be no escape.

      I like you. I like your site, but your mistaken libertarianism will jigger it up.

      Do you know synonyms for jigger?

      Finally, James. It is unacceptable to allow anyone with an independent mind to be called a Nazi.

      What about your good self?

      Are you a Nazi? That seems to be the theme.

      Obviously not.

      So why do you allow a freak trollybus expert to pollute your blog?

      Seriously.

      Delete
  20. Glasgow Working ClassDecember 2, 2015 at 1:25 AM

    Mick or dae yer pals call ye porkie? This neocon claptrap has been long exhausted. You are either leftie or right wing fascist or not. So you are happy tae see people being slaughtered for your own dare I say it unknown agenda. Mick your witt is not impressive people are being killed.

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  21. Hold hard me heaties!

    Mick Pork,who I admire mainly for having a free pass on swearing from OGH, said:

    Shouldn't you tiny-brained Cameroon cheerleaders be spending all your time trying to persuade your own family and friends (I know LOL) of fighting age to join up and bomb that obvious new Hitler Saddam, sorry Assad, sorry Al-Qaeda, sorry ISIS.

    That is exactly what they are doing.

    For goodness sake!

    OGH will know exactly what I meant in the last paragraph, but will breath a sigh of relief that Morningside sensibilities and his, have not been breached by a mere interernet post.

    Phew! Close call there.


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