Once that happens, the discussion will move on to how on earth the genocide was permitted to occur. And as with previous genocides such as Rwanda and the Holocaust, there will be a lot of focus on the way in which genocidal language was normalised, for example Israeli officials suggesting that all residents of Gaza are legitimate targets because they are 'human animals' or because they supposedly all support Hamas. Or an equally good example is Clinton stating that large numbers of innocent people "have" to be mass murdered by Israel because Hamas is hiding behind them. That evades the obvious point that if one Hamas fighter is hiding behind 400 civilians, you actually have the option not to massacre the 400 civilians because you have the moral sense to know that in doing so you'd be committing a war crime every bit as grave as the one you claim to be avenging. Always assuming, of course, you actually believe that the Hamas fighter is hiding behind the 400 in the first place, and that you aren't using that as a flimsy excuse because your real and sole aim to is to massacre the 400 as part of a step by step plan to drastically reduce the Arab population of Gaza.
And just as the Nazis prepared the ground for genocide by advancing pseudoscientific gibberish about racial superiority, it'll be considered highly significant that Clinton prayed in aid a mythology of racial entitlement to the land, with the Israelis' actions justified on the ahistorical basis that they were there in the time of King David, long before the Palestinians' own religion was created. In truth, historians are sceptical as to whether King David actually existed, but even if he did, using the events of thousands of years ago as the basis for a racial hierarchy would undoubtedly give Native Amerìcans free license to do to Bill Clinton and millions of people like him exactly what Israel is currently doing to the Palestinians.
Last but not least, Clinton tried to resurrect his own equivalent of Hitler's "stab in the back" myth by arguing that he has inside knowledge from the Camp David talks at the end of his own presidency that all the ills of the region, including the lack of a Palestinian state, had nothing to do with the Israelis, but were instead the fault of Yasser Arafat, who supposedly torpedoed the most generous offer in the history of the known universe because he was so hellbent on eradicating Israel and having a Palestinian state on 100% of the territory of historic Palestine. The reality, of course, couldn't be more different. Arafat conceded before the 2000 talks even began that the 1967 boundaries were the baseline, meaning that Israel would be keeping 78% of historic Palestine, a position far closer to Benjamin Netanyahu's lebensraum fantasy than to the total destruction of Israel. But that, of course, was not enough for the Israelis, who demanded -
* Just over one-tenth of the West Bank, recognised by the international community as indisputably Palestinan territory, would be confiscated by Israel.
* There would be no proper compensation for this land grab. There would be a nominal "land swap", but the amount of Israeli territory transferred to the Palestinian state would be little over one-tenth the size of the confiscated Palestinian land.
* The land grab would split the Palestinian sovereign territory in the West Bank into three non-contiguous segments. Adding in the fourth segment of the state in Gaza, this would make Palestine one of the most non-contiguous states in the world, evoking an obvious comparison with "Bantustans".
* The Palestinian state would be demilitarised and Israel would have a veto on any alliances it entered into. Its airspace would also be controlled by Israel - an absolutely absurd demand that no self-respecting sovereign state would ever agree to.
* Palestinian refugees would have to give up their right to return to their homes in Israel, even though they were violently and illegally displaced by Israeli forces.
* The vast bulk of the conquered Arab-dominated East Jerusalem would be annexed by Israel. At best, Palestine would be allowed to cobble together some of the newer outlying suburbs, artificially call it "the city of East Jerusalem" and make it the capital.
* Most crucially, Arafat was told that any agreement required him to permanently renounce any further "demands". More than anything else, this made agreement utterly impossible, because the Israeli proposals on issues like Jerusalem and airspace were so inherently unfair and so obviously justified only by blackmail due to Israel's present-day military strength that the only way Arafat could ever agree to them in good conscience was on a provisional basis subject to a review.
Really the only mistake Arafat made in 2000 was to wrongly take Clinton for an honest broker. Clinton was playing an each-way bet - he was happy enough to pose as peacemaker if he bullied the Palestinians into accepting a deal that would permanently stitch them up. But just as good for him was for the Palestinians to sensibly walk away, allowing him to self-righteously "stand with Israel" and to spend the next few decades lying through his teeth about what had just happened and who was to blame for it.
This is the key comment to all of this:
ReplyDelete"That evades the obvious point that if one Hamas fighter is hiding behind 400 civilians, you actually have the option not to massacre the 400 civilians because you have the moral sense to know that in doing so you'd be committing a war crime every bit as grave as the one you claim to be avenging."
Israel has the option not to bomb.
I was brought up that two wrongs don't make a right and morally Israel is way, way way beyond anything which is defensive in nature.
The only modern comparison is with Bosnia in the 1990s.
I can highly recommend Joe Sacco’s books about Palestine (Palestine and Footnotes in Gaza) and Bosnia (Safe Area Goražde).
DeleteHamas commited xenophobic murder too. Why do you never mention? There will be no peace until legitimate fears on both sides are considered.
ReplyDeleteHamas certainly did, but the overwhelming majority of people in Gaza did not. Why do they have to endure this unimaginable suffering for the actions of relatively few?
Delete"Hamas commited xenophobic murder too."
DeleteYes, but on nothing like the same scale. Israel has murdered tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands.
Hamas staged a aring raid on their concentration camp guards and took a few hundred hostages.
DeleteThe jews enacted the Hannibal protocol and incinerated as many of their own citizens as they could.
Then lied about rapes and beheaded babies, aoll while proudly broadcasting video of their own forces shelling a village until everyone was dead.
Tell the truth.
Flimsy excuse.. what nonsense. This would not be happening but for a certain event last year.
ReplyDeleteA cynical person might look at the fact Israel stood down it's defences and allowed easier access. Maybe the destroying of Palestine wasn't going quick enough so let Hamas do something grim we can then use as an excuse. It's not a conspiracy as it doesn't take many people to be in on the plot to make it happen.....
Delete"This would not be happening but for a certain event last year"
DeleteWould a certain event last year have happened last year if it hadn't been for 56 years of brutal occupation? Seems *rather unlikely*, doesn't it?
And in any case how does the mas murder of 1000 justify the mass murder of 40,000+?
There was no mass murder and Hamas never killed 1,000 jews.
DeleteThe IOF did that.
Settler states rarely work, in the long term, without mass murder and the forcing of the then remnant populations onto the fringes. A religious/ideological belief in the 'right' to behave like this serves to intensify the horror.
ReplyDeleteThe irony of fascistic zionism is breathtaking. The hypocrisy of western support for Netanyahu also.
Ultimately a heavily UN supervised two state solution is the only chance for some stability. How we get there from where we are now....?
Essential to remember that present murderous Zionism and 'Jewishness' are quite separate and distinct.
Nationalism typically has this poison lurking in it somewhere - that's why I'm a self determinationist and yes, the original Murders by Hamas were also a horrific atrocity.
It's like the old joke about road directions - you wouldn't want to start from here.
Israel is so painfully obviously the 20th century's Crusader State in the Levant. History's been through a few of these before. It didn't end well.
DeleteMind, the United States is the most successful settler state of all time. So if your ethnic cleansing based pet project needs a backer, there's really none better than "the Land of the Free."
Sometimes, those quote marks are doing a lot of work. This is one of those times.
The BMG poll was an outlier. The Optimum poll from the same period (30 - 31st) confirms the Techne poll from the same period, ie, there’s essentially no move resulting from the Budget, and Labour have a lead of around 6%.
ReplyDeleteFor what little it’s worth, the Scottish sub-sample: Con 14%, Lab 26%, LibDem 8%, SNP 30%, RefUK 12%.
Opinium themselves have been something of an outlier with better Labour results than other firms. The truth is likely to be somewhere in between.
DeleteThe Norstat poll for the Sunday Times makes gloomy reading for Labour in Scotland. The SNP would take 51 MSPs to Labour's 29 on these figures. See https://archive.ph/lP7i8.
DeleteBill Clinton bombed Sudan and Iraq to distract from his trial for raping an intern.
ReplyDeleteHe bombed Belgrade for laughs.
He's always been evil.
He raped and murdered children on epstein island.
Over 50 of his closest associates all killed themselves in a variety of interesting ways
Why would you be defending him, or thinking he's not scum?
Would you like some pizza with your Qanon?
DeleteSometimes to much tequila can warp your brain apparently. Anon at 1037 may well prove the point.
ReplyDeletePearl Harbour allowed the Americans to enter WW2. Conveniently all the USA aircraft carriers were not there at the time.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to believe that the Israeli government didn't know that Hamas were preparing that assault last October. This is the country that can identify, find, target and kill its enemies all over the Middle East but you are expected to believe that they knew nothing about Hamas preparing for this attack in the Gaza prison next door to them. They used paragliders but Israeli inteligence didn't spot them. They carried out training and test runs but Israeli intelligence didn't spot them. Well according to the Washington post journalists Israeli intelligence did know about it, reported it to the right wing fascist government and they said it was rubbish. The newspaper published leaked Israeli intelligence documents saying Hamas were preparing a major attack. This is the Israeli government that will bomb, kill, arrest any Palestinian at the drop of a hat if there is any sniff of them being involved in any action they don't like but they ignore this.
It's a colonial situation and Israel plans to grab more land and they don't care how many children they murder. If you voted for Labour of Tory you have the blood of children on your hands. No children invaded Israel last October but they are getting blown to bits and burned alive every day by Israel helped by the USA and the UK.
the british had broken the jap codes, yanks knew they were coming - mostly older ships get blown up
Deletethe "let it happen on purpose" is the sophisticated man's "false flag"
as any fule kno
Well now, perhaps the SNP read btl on SGP and - gasp - see that IFA and yesindyref2 and an Anon AGREE on some things apart from Indy itself. Hilp ma kilt!
ReplyDeleteIn this case that they should keep the Winter Fuel Payment as universal:
https://archive.is/cIA9n
"Public Finance Minister Ivan McKee has hinted that the Scottish Government could use a funding uplift from Westminster to mitigate cuts to the Winter Fuel Payment benefit."
Go for it, and shame Labour to its very Keir Hardie foundations.
IFS, sorry.
DeleteMy new MP the Better Together diddy Labour MP Blair McDougall used to boast about the WFP being one of the previous Labour (Tony Blair's lot) governments best ever achievements. Now the prick votes against it in Westminster.
DeletePerhaps the most obvious point is that - as Israel doesn't give a sh*t about human shields - it would afford no benefit to Hamas to use them. In fact, it paints a target on them; something I'm sure Hamas have figured out.
ReplyDeleteThe 'Hamas use human shields' claim holds no water.
I see a former Daily record “journalist” or was it the “Sunday Mail” but supported the Labour Party for many years is puting the boot into the recently deceased former FM. The right wing herald obliges. I do wonder what ever happened to journalism and what is taught regarding morals and ethics?
ReplyDeleteSo prof curtice believes reform party could get a dozen seats in Holyrood.
ReplyDeletePersonally with the ultra right wing Badenoch or is it baedonnock? Maybe that is less likely. What it does seem is labour is sitting with a hard core anti eu, pro Brexit, anti independence and Scots who may wish to leave them for reform. What ever has happened to social democratic policies?
Sturgeon's gang ( an insider claims this and that ) are claiming the polis are investigating Salmond again. Truly, if they weren't such disgusting human beings you would laugh at them. Are they expecting the polis to exhume Salmond and stick him in front of Dorian again.
ReplyDeleteYou cannae investigate a dead man never mind prosecute him. You can make up more ridiculous smears for your pals in the Britnat media to run with. More despicable nonsense from Sturgeon and her Britnat helpers in the media. They assume people will just look at the headlines and not engage their brain.
These people are just pissed off because they couldnae have a second go at Salmond but this time with no jury but the same judge Dorian who disnae like juries.
Sturgeon's gang need removed from any positions of influence never mind power in Scotland. They are a cancer in Scotland never mind the SNP.
Not true
DeleteThe journalists and papers concerned attacked Salmond and Sturgeon in equal measure. Open your eyes. You are being played.
DeleteAnon at 3.36pm - prove it.
DeleteAnon at 3.37pm - my eyes are wide open.
Well you have covered your eyes with tape. The herald is running with the story. The journalist for years has been pro labour
DeleteThe interesting question is why are they going after their dead bogeyman again *now*? Is something larger imminent? Something involving ███ █████ and Mr. and Ms. Sturgeon?
DeleteLOOK! A SQUIRREL! NO REALLY. ITS LITERALLY THERE!
Anon at 6.25pm - meaningless post.
DeleteCarlos Alba is the person who wrote the substance free smears against Salmond that got published in the Sunday Mail, Sunday Post and the Herald on Sunday. Carlos has preferred pronouns they/them. He is one of them alright - one of Sturgeon's gang.
DeleteA very informative and excellent article James. Takes me back to your range of excellent and informative articles on Covid .
ReplyDeleteIt should never be forgotten that the 'caring' Starmer said that Israel has every right to cutoff all water, food and fuel supplies to Gaza. That is a potential war crime of mass murder he was condoning and trying to make it acceptable to the UK populace. Another disgusting character.
ReplyDeleteAnd that folks is Dr Jim's view of the world - violence is Jimbo's go to method for solving problems.
ReplyDeleteYou make lots of claims and allegations but no evidence. Still that’s the role of an underminer.
DeleteWhere is your evidence numpty at 3.39pm for your assertion? Still that's the role of a troll.
Delete"Still that’s the role of an underminer."
DeleteAnd you don't do it very well Comrade Anonymouse.
IFS is yir2 and also posts as "Anonymous". True!
DeleteAnonymous at 5.07pm is Elvis. True!
DeleteI draw the line at Anon's outright support of genocide. Deleted.
ReplyDeleteIt's Dr Jim alright James. He has posted the same sort of stuff on WGD.
DeleteI've just noticed this is in an article by Neil Mackay of the Herald, who used to support Independence apparently. But nevermind.
ReplyDeletehttps://archive.is/T8nSG
First thing I do have to say is that the more international experts we have the better - we'll need our own equivalents of RUSI and even of Chatham House, though it could be combined. Prof P Jackson is clearly a Unionist, but would have an important point of view. He does, however quickly contradict himself:
"Jackson believes that it would be difficult for an independent Scotland to attain NATO membership if it was intent on removing Trident ..."
but
"An independent Scotland would be strategically important for security in the Arctic, and the ‘Five-Eyes’ intelligence system. Scotland’s geography makes it “absolutely vital for early warning. Scotland has this position that’s more important than people realise in terms of intelligence-gathering strategically”.
Well, as they say in the States: "go figure".
I should just add that many of us are completely aware of the GIS gap. For some odd reason we do know our own geography and our own geopolitics. He needs to drop the dripping condescension. Score sheet: working at level 1 must do better.
DeleteAh! Some familiar names here, though of course Indy supporters wouldn't realise the significance or context.
Deletehttps://scga.scot/2024/03/26/scga-our-advisory-board/
the only problems would occur if you tried to leave NATO
Deleteits like the mafia or the freemasons
Interesting point.
Delete“Leave us, and we will send a ferry full of North Koreans.”
Deleteour seabed is full of SOSUS microphones, they need to be plugged in somewhere
Deletethe UK "independent nuclear deterrent" is militarily irrelevant to NATO - you could get rid of the nukes, stay in NATO and the yanks wouldn't care
the english would cry though - the nuke is like the cucumber down the spandex of an ageing rock star
France has an independent deterrent, the UK does not; ours is an exorbitant rental deal, the launch codes in the US ambassadors safe
Delete- would you let a gang of inbred paedophiles with bad teeth loose with "ultimate power"; the yanks remember things like the cambridge spies, roger hollis, klaus fuchs.
an indy Scotland could claim to already being a member of NATO and if the english tried anything we could invoke article 5 - legally, they now have to attack themselves
Delete"the launch codes"
DeleteThat's the US. The UK has an old-fashioned analog trigger, not launch codes.
the launch code is "1234" and the password to the safe is "default"
Delete#KC
ReplyDeleteIt never ceases to amaze me KC ( House Jock) how often you repeat the exact same words.
ReplyDeleteIt never ceases to amaze me how you think posting your pathetic comments will influence anyone.
KC - you've said that before.
ReplyDeleteKC have you kept a count of how many of your repetitive posts on SGP have been deleted. Must be in the thousands but like a game of whackamole back you come. Strange person.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 10.11. Numbers not your strong point? Silly billy boy.
DeleteNearly as many as you? Pot, kettle?
ReplyDelete25 polls out of 31 so far on independence in 2024, putting No ahead, yet incredibly there are halfwits still attempting to claim independence is the “settled will”.
ReplyDelete🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Feel free to reference them and confirm that it is an exhaustive list. No? Gosh there’s a surprise. Off you trot to the Mail
Delete