A few weeks before the general election, I used my iScot column to bemoan the fact that there was no billboard ad campaign from the SNP (or any other pro-indy party or organisation) hammering Keir Starmer and Labour. I felt Labour's narrow poll lead in Scotland was potentially highly vulnerable if voters became better acquainted with Starmer's well-documented history of lying, cheating and breaching trust, and indeed with how right-wing Labour's programme had become. However, I did concede that if the SNP simply didn't have the money to run such a campaign, there wasn't much that could be done.
However, now that we're on the other side of the general election, the independence movement has a golden second chance, because if Labour were vulnerable before July, they're even more vulnerable now - voters have spontaneously started to notice Starmer's true nature and his popularity has fallen off a cliff. We'd now be pushing at an open door with billboard ads that make voters think about how Labour presented themselves as 'change without independence' and have utterly failed to deliver or have even been a change for the worse. That effectively leaves voters with nowhere to go other than independence if they're looking for a radical change for the better.
So my heart started to sing this morning when Believe in Scotland sent out an email announcing that they intend to run another two billboard ads and are giving followers a chance to choose between three options, two of which are in line with what I think is the correct messaging. One points out that Labour's own research shows that 4000 pensioners will die as a result of the winter fuel allowance being cut, adding that "Scotland didn't vote for this". Another says "Starmer gets freebies while your granny freezes - Britain is broken". I think "Scotland didn't vote for this" is the more effective of the two, because "Britain is broken" is open to interpretation and not everyone will realise that the nudge is towards independence. They might think they're being urged to "fix" Britain with a new government.
Nevertheless both are good, and therefore I was dismayed when I submitted my vote and saw that the runaway leader in the poll was the only one that doesn't tackle Labour, and instead reverts to the independence movement's comfort zone by portraying the saltire as "dreaming big" and the Union Jack as "living small". That doesn't really do anything at all - it's affirming and feel-good for the hardcore of already committed independence supporters, but doesn't hit any buttons for people who have yet to be convinced.
This is where I think potentially bad campaigning decisions are made when they're taken by radical independence supporters who assume that the rest of Scotland think like themselves. I recently took a look at small pro-indy parties to see if any of them would be a suitable political home for me in the event that Yvonne Ridley's boast proves true and a decision has already been taken to expel me from the Alba Party. But I found that almost all of them were making the same kind of mistakes as Alba, but on an even bigger scale - lots of talk about "national liberation" and "salvation", which in my view sounds like alien language to most voters.
Not long before Alex Salmond died, I was asked why I thought Alba had failed thus far, and I said that I thought perhaps the party's branding had been conceptually flawed from the start. Although I'm passionate about the Gaelic language, from a hard-headed point of view the name Alba may have been a mistake, because for many voters it may have conjured up an image of a romantic, "Celticist" party, far removed from their own day to day concerns. The smaller parties aren't learning from that error as far as I can see. If a non-SNP, non-Alba party of independence is ever going to emerge as a serious contender, I suspect its messaging will have to go in a very different direction from the natural instincts of those who set it up. It'll have to promote itself as a party primarily concerned with solving specific economic or social problems (or seeking to rejoin the EU, or whatever), but one that just happens to be utterly uncompromising in viewing independence as an essential part of the solution to those problems.
As it turns out, there just isn't enough of a gap in the market for a party catering for voters who think the SNP isn't going far enough or fast enough on independence. The SNP have well and truly monopolised the market as "the party of independence", and that isn't about to change. But where there may be a gap is by first speaking the language of voters' real world preoccupations, and then tying those preoccupations to the urgent necessity of independence. That way you might even get soft No voters backing a Yes party, and help build a pro-indy majority in the Holyrood popular vote without directly harming the SNP much. (From a more Machiavellian point of view, there's also a clear gap in the market for a pro-independence version of Reform UK, ie. one that blames everything on immigrants, but that's certainly not something most of us would ever touch with a bargepole.)
There is a pro-independence version of Reform. The party is called Sovereignty pro-Indy, anti-EU and anti-immigration, low tax etc
ReplyDeleteI'd never heard of them but just had a look at their website which is surprisingly high quality.
DeleteA lot of right wing populist stuff in the GE manifesto as you say. Given the apparent support for Reform in Scotland and the demise of Alba there is almost certainly fertile ground for Sovereignty out there. However, all these small parties never seem to break out from the 'back room of a pub' image.
Founded in 2020 and before this post I had never heard of them before either, and I'd like to think of myself as being politically engaged.
DeleteIf people who are engaged with Scottish politics on a practically daily basis hasn't heard of them what are the chances the average Joe on the street is aware of their existence?
Alba should change their name to something else and take a left wing nationalist perspective.
DeleteAppeal to Labour and SNP voters.
Sounds like a bunch of Trump/Farage nutcases.
Deletewith how many members if any?
ReplyDeleteIndependence is the unstoppable force. The SNP is the immovable object.
ReplyDeleteGood. The unionists won’t push the main independence party from electoral stage.
DeleteAnon@6:32, agree.
Delete11:28pm appears to be somebody that’s lost the plot.
Thanks for that insight. The situation you've described is the difference between an amateur and professionally led campaign. IMV this is where the SNP and independence supporters really fall down. They don't have the resources anywhere close to their opponents.
ReplyDeleteSure yip, we believe you.
DeleteQuite who this “we” is, anon.
Delete@Jacob. Scotgov and the SNP have plenty of resources, there’s arguably far too many politics graduates in both their ranks, so stuff like this should at least be done professionally. What else are all these careerists for?
Just because they have a politics degree doesn't mean they're competent. To reach a basic level of competence at a trade takes 6y (proper apprenticeship, not a modern one)
DeleteYou're right about the BiS posters James - two good ones and one 'dreamer'. When I voted one of the good ones was running equal with the less good one.
ReplyDeleteWe have to hammer the rightist, dishonest and probably heavily security services influenced, Starmer party. They've certainly been very generous is giving us plenty of potential weak points to get at them.
In present circumstances we are going to have to try to have a related conversation with people that we get through to on future voting intentions. Tactical voting for the 'Parnellite' SNP and marginal Alba under the d'Hondt system will be the priority.
Of course we will need a political party to do anything decisive about independence in the future but there presently, simply isn't a party available in a decent condition to put full, participative trust in. The political dynamics of reactionary Labour and our own campaigning are going to have to do for now.
Alba are to all intents already finished as a party. And after 45 years of supporting and voting for SNP I believe it’s present make up renders it no more than a party of devolved governance, with its Indy ambitions relegated in favour of the aims of entryists, zealots and outright unionist infiltrators. There is no sign of acknowledgment from within SNP leadership that they need radical change. This Billboard initiative by BiS is welcome, but the choice of poster means it has failed before it has started. Tell people in Scotland they are already self sufficient in renewable electricity if they become Independent and bills will be slashed. That is a message worth sending. Tell them they will not be paying through the nose for further investment in London. Tell them some of the other ways Scotland can be a very prosperous independent nation. The failure in messaging seems to afflict the entire Indy movement.
ReplyDelete100% correct.
DeleteBiS is a money making scheme for GMK. Of course it’s singing to the choir. They’re the donors.
DeleteThat would just be bullshit unless it accompanied someone serious stating that an independent Scotland would have it's own energy regulator, and someone serious stating what rates an independent Scottish energy regulator would set the price-caps on gas and electricity (oopsy).
DeleteAnon at 12.14. Someone in a position of expertise and authority already has. Do keep up. Why are you on here anyway?
DeleteWhy are you?
DeleteObvious to anyone with connected brain cells why I’m here. You on the other hand appear to be here to make snide comment. WOS is probably a better choice for you. Off you toddle.
DeleteAnonymousOctober 23, 2024 at 12:36 PM - Electricity/gas/petrol/diesel prices are not usually set by governments, at least certainly not in Western Europe. You can look it up if you can be bothered looking for the truth.
Delete....But they do put taxes on the price.
DeleteAnonymous October 23, 2024 at 8.28 AM is correct saying 'the failure in messaging seems to inflict the entire indy movement' and so I also agree with James that the chosen billboard is just another example of indy movement speak to itself insubstantial indy club froth. Nice pretty graphic - stick a pint glass on it and could just as easily be a beer advert, or whatever. The 'indy movement' as James says, needs to step outside of itself sooner rather than later. These days, a huge chunk of It seems to seriously suffer from a superior sort of conceit of itself assuming it has some God-given right to dictate to all of Scotland to do its bidding - and heaven-forfend if the SNP ever say or do anything before running it past 'the movement' for its approval first - at the same time as 'the movement' is never done declaring it doesn't want the SNP to be part of it for this, that or any other reason. Going round in circles for years arguing about how to game the Holyrood voting system; Nicola Sturgeon 'is a Britnat and never wanted independence'. All the other avoid the hard stuff tropes and narratives and nostalgia for 2014. Floating voters couldn't give a stuff about any of that self-indulgent navel gazing - that from their line of sight is as invisible and irrelevant and going on in some 'club indy' galaxy far far away from the reality of the nitty gritty of their daily lives.
DeleteJames is right about relatability. You need to balance long-term ambition with the less palatable realism of current circumstances. People are tired, far too many in dire circumstances financially, look at the number of businesses and hotels, B&Bs being sold. Look at how Scotland is changing, who is doing well - who is not.
Look at what it is about Labour and unfortunately Reform UK very simple messaging is appealing to people looking for very few words promises and why it seems to be attractive to them as a last gasp hope of a kind when whilst it may ultimately be vaccuous, people grasp what the perceive to be a change just for psychological relief. Going out and saying 'you're a sovereign Scot, support independence' is more appealing to people in a certain condition of economic comfort still. It's a future thing which can be indulged. Most voters know our current ScotGov can't switch on a money machine tomorrow and instantly change dire economic need - even if in their hearts they'd prefer to vote for them. No rational person would conceive independence won't involve years of hard work and complexities - it's not a 'can be done by tomorrow' thing.
So the temptation is high for them to turn their heads to Labour - even if their budget might indicate more hell - they think Westminster are more capable of throwing some bucks to temporarily win favour votes in Scotland. Despite the anti SNP ScotGov favourite yes movement tropes right now - the reality is that whilst ScotGov DO have the will - there just isn't a satisfactory quick fix way at this time to toss jam on the tables they would dearly like to. So, IF there is an indy movement - and it's sometimes doubtful these days if it's been anything other than a get rid of Sturgeon and the SNP leadership movement the last few years - it's going to have to relate to all round tired voters, with the least tired being those Labour and Lib-Dem activists who have their tails up much aided by a distracted alleged Yes movement. Believe in Scotland excepted.
Brexit, Johnson, COVID, Trussonomics. The SNP actively resisted using any of those golden opportunities to further the cause of independence. Starmer knows he can hand it to them on a plate and they won't do anything.
ReplyDeleteSwinney being muscled to the edge of the regional mayors group photo in his own backyard is visual proof of this.
I also feel like ISP are going off focusing on issues people frankly don't give a toss about in their every day life and won't move anyone towards supporting independence: Removing the oath of allegiance when MPs & MSP's are sworn it.
ReplyDeleteIt very much feels like an issue to be discussed once independence has been achieved. Focusing on it now is just daft as we know it's not going to be removed/changed so wasting time and resources on it now is stupid, and not all independence supporters or potential independence supporters are republicans anyway?
Why focus on niche issues not everyone will support when we should be focusing on getting more people to support independence?
Does anyone who does not frequent the Indy blogs even know what ISP is? I’ve honestly never seen a pip from them, even in the National, since Alba’s launch. They have the public profile of a telephone booth.
DeleteFrom what I've seen of ISP's material a lot of it seemed to have been knocked up in Microsoft Paint in 5-10 minutes. It's very basic/unprofessional looking imo.
DeleteI don't even know what 'ISP' stands for. Independent Socialist Party?
DeleteIndependence for Scotland Party
DeleteImperceptibly Small Party.
DeleteI quite agree with their abstentionism for westminster, but when you’re that wee it hardly matters, does it?
ISP has never had any presence outwith its bubble. Alba did have a presence, based solely on A S. Even then it flatlined at under 2 per cent and from now on it’s downhill.
DeleteSo why did ISP go to nearly 9% in its latest by-election and Alba save its (notional) deposit in Perth and Dundee just lately?
DeleteReferences please.
DeleteArmadale and Blackridge Ward (West Lothian) council by-election:
DeleteLAB: 28.9% (+14.8) SNP: 28.3% (+6.2) REF: 18.9% (NEW) ISP: 8.6% (+7.8)
CON: 8.2% (-2.3) LDM: 4.4% (+3.5) GRN 2.7%, (+0.1)
Labour GAIN from Independent. (Former independent had 48.9%)
Perth City North:
Sonia DAVIDSON Reform UK 209
Carol MAIR Scottish National Party (SNP) 917
Tina Jane NG-A-MANN Scottish Liberal Democrats 95
Kirsten NKWOCHA-DYER Scottish Labour 313
Aziz REHMAN Scottish Conservative and Unionist 296
Robert REID Alba Party 133
Caitlin RIPLEY Scottish Greens 87
Total 2,050
Dundee Lochee:
Lee Mills SNP 1203 37.3%
Marty Smith Lab 1148 35.6%
Calum Walker C 219 6.8%
Alan Ross Alba 178 5.5%
Kate Treharne Grn 176 5.5%
Outi Bourke LD 156 4.8%
John Reddy Workers 143 4.4%
What is a "notional deposit"?
Delete5% of the vote. In Holyrood and westminster elections, you lose your deposit unless you meet that threshold. £500 a pop, I think, maybe more by now.
DeleteIn council elections there is no deposit. Which kind of says it all for Alba and ISP failing to appear on even the council ballot in these parts.
In other words they didn't save a notional deposit because no such thing exists. Thought as much.
DeleteThat's what 'notional' means!
DeleteAlba’s problem was never its name. That name is fine. Its problem was always itself.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of James’s post.
Much as I despise the Greens, they have a substantial vote, negating the the claim of a SNP monopoly of YES voters, regrettably.
Amusingly, the Green vote has even gone up since Humza defenestrated himself after insulting them. Can’t say I know why. Another whole group of scunnered Yessers who are put off by Scotgov and Swinney but haven’t spotted the wild ideological capture of Scotland’s second party of independence?
DeleteMaybe that will change when Harvie enters Sarwar’s coalition.
Much of the Green vote came in the list and were SNP voters and a lot of that vote has been lost because of their recent showing of incompetence and untrustworthiness. Sadly not all of that SNP vote will now be going back to SNP.
DeleteIn the past, yes. But the Greens are polling well after leaving Scotgov. Better than before.
DeleteCan't say I know why, either. I'd be interested to see updated figures about their supporters view on independence now. Are the Greens picking up more unionists now they're out of bed with the SNP?
Context: this is the Scottish Green vote after 34 years of existence.
DeleteThe Scottish independence movement has been mostly talking to itself for years.
ReplyDeleteYes
DeleteThe independence movement can't be bothered to do anything else.
DeleteDo what, though? Chap on doors? Try to pretend it's 2014 again and bore people silly with an optimism that's completely out of sync with the political reality of the present?
DeleteWe need a political event to engage with. That must be a referendum of one sort or another. The only person who can push one of those effectively is the First Minister / leader of the SNP.
When Scottish nationalists have 9 MPs there isn't going to be a referendum on the subject (after the EU one, I don't think there is going to be a referendum on any subject for a long time).
DeleteThe idea of political activists frightening/bothering people on their doorsteps sounds like something from the last century. I've only ever had wee frees chapping the door due to the proximity of one of their property assets, and some charity reps.
I would suggest a convention headed by a non-politician that includes all political parties, but that's not going to happen given the bad blood on all sides, so I guess it will be navel gazing for a decade followed by a miraculous burst of popularity, or an existential crisis.
There is another party, NewScotlandParty, Peter A Bell has started it, And although I will never join another Political party, SNP 53yrs Alba 1yr.. I think the name of this party along with a leader who like Alex Salmond has Indy running through his veins. Scotland really needs a NEW SCOTLAND PARTY...
ReplyDeleteAt least it is an improvement on his recent 'campaign' to get people not to vote. I guess he has done a 180 on that.
DeleteThough unlike Salmond, Peter A Bell is seen as more of a nutter than a leader imo.
DeleteIt is incumbent on us to realise that Peter A. Bell is the man of destiny.
DeleteWe should be watchful at all times, as lying bladders attempt to insert themselves into blogs and party organisations.
PAB proposes UDI. That tells you all you need to know about his and his party’s credibility.
DeletePeter A. Bell is another IfS. squabbling for the sake of squabbling.
DeleteLomax king of the snidey one liners is a 5 watt bulb. Not very bright and cannae enlighten any adult discussion so sticks to his snidey one liners. Cowardly Lomax normally posts on SGP as an anon troll and has the same value as a 5 watt bulb - zero.
DeleteIs “destiny” not a girl group?
ReplyDeleteThe over 65s have never known or understood what the concept of freedom is supposed to be because the British told them all their lives that they were free, animals in captivity for a long time don’t immediately bolt for freedom on release, they fear leaving the *safety* of their cage
ReplyDeleteAs a 67 yr old I take offensive to the above overly generalised comment.
DeleteExplain how some 20 year olds vote Tory Labour ? As a 70 yr old I vote SNP.
DeletePolls always show highest support for Yes is in the youngest voters, and it decreases with age. The firmest contingent for No is the elderly.
DeleteThat’s statistics, though, not a guarantee every single one of you goes with the majority. For instance, my one mum was English and voted Yes in 2014. Someone her age, let alone from Kent, should have been thoroughly against but she was in the minority who saw it like we do.
Autocorrect suggesting I had more than one mother now. Oh, technology! The word was “own”.
DeleteIt is more complicated than just age. Educational attainment and intelligence also play a part. To be blunt, ignorant idiots vote for unionist parties.
DeleteIgnorant idiots also vote for nationalist parties, but far from everyone who votes for unionist and nationalist parties are ignorant idiots.
DeleteThe elderly are more conservative than the young. Nothing new there.
DeleteBetter to stick with SNP. John Swinney is popular with ordinary Scottish people.
ReplyDeleteSureness-of-touch and all that.
DeleteI have a theory: this guy (growing into the rôle) is one and the same as KC (nationalist charlatans and Dad’s Army). He’s winding up both sides.
DeleteAnon (KC) 1.41pm - better to stick with the SNP. Aye better for the Better Together mob.
DeleteWhat they did well previously was both parts.
ReplyDeleteThe lack of focus on Labour pre GE amd focus on SNP themselves and Alba was bizarre.
The opponent is Labour.
The opponent is the British state.
DeleteYou are right anon at 1.58. The focus on making Scotland Tory free was bizarre and spectacularly unsuccessful. Heads should have rolled. The fact that they didn’t tells its own story.
DeleteMany Scottish people have a place in their hearts for Labour party. Attacking Labour can therefore backfire.
DeleteWhy "national liberation"?
ReplyDeleteBecause there is no democratic / constitutional path to independence.
There will never be another referendum, and the last one was an almost catastrophic blunder by Cameron.
Had we won the last one, it would not have been recognised; told it was "advisory" and tied up in decades long talking shops, federalism, devo max, all the bait and switch. They would have stonewalled us, knowing we have nothing; shall we go out at night to plant landmines and assassinate government officials? Hardly, we are not exactly the taliban.
The last one was almost certainly rigged by flipping a lot of the postal votes; the lack of a separate count and no exit polls allowed this to work. Even at that, the Scots did vote for independence, while the English we foolishly allowed a vote on the matter, did not. The english in Scotland are not new Scots, they are little englanders with a vicious ethnic supremacism in their character - they think they "own" this land of ours, and we lack the pride to rid them of the notion.
Do you think England will allow 40% of the land, 95% of the hydrocarbons, half the renewable electricity to "walk out the door on a show of hands". This is a "defence of the realm" issue and our resources are already spent, or used as collateral, to keep the city and its scams running. We are going nowhere, if you continue to think in terms of vote SNP, win another mandate, ask for charity from the thief who robbed you.
Half the middle class are english or traitors; the SNP is riddled with spooks and their agents, and it is highly likely (we shall know the day she becomes a dame) Sturgeon was an agent for MI5 and Leslie Evans or Lloyd was her handler.
- once you start to realise just how fucked-up things really are, you realise you need another approach, some out of the box thinking, for want of a better word, "liberation".
Things are going to get much worse for the Scots in the next decade, but will we wake up before it is too late?
I am not getting my hopes up.
Great Post!!!
DeleteI was expecting the Salvo argument for a while there, but it kind of hopped right off the road and kept going. Is that the farmer’s horse? Is that Mike Russell’s Indyef2 horse box?
DeleteNevermind you can always concoct another conspiracy theory to make things make sense.
DeleteAnonymousOctober 23, 2024 at 2:22 PM must be so gullible that he believes unreferenced verbal incontinence in blogs written by people who are unhinged.
DeleteAnother one who wants to silence those he disagrees with. Let the site host decide who can comment and say nothing if this is all you have to contribute.
DeleteRESTORATION would be a good name for a party of Scotland. It would remind the leaders of such a party that their aim is to restore independence.
ReplyDeleteNot really, because nobody wants a 17th century form of independence. We want a modern nation that works better for us than the UK ever could.
DeleteRestoration is 1660 and King James .
DeleteHe was nuts. He used to hide in bushes beside the nurses home and make sounds like a swan when they were coming home off duty. And the other stuff.
Delete11:06 pm. What the hell are you on about?
DeleteBetter off pensioners won’t receive a £300 per year winter fuel payment and “4,000 will die”. Er…okay…if you say so…
ReplyDeletePS please don’t palm us off to Labour’s research. You say it like you believe it yourself.
Anon at 8:20 pm ... okay, give us your proof that the estimate of additional deaths is wrong.
DeleteUnfortunately most indy supporters who are active listen to each other rather than normal voters. So you hear virtue signalling people saying
ReplyDelete"But wouldn't you be happy paying an extra £10,000 a week if it meant social justice getting rid of Trident and sending Charlie Boy to the moon and making £30,000 the maximum salary by law?"
To which the normal voter says "Yes of course now please step away from the door [you complete and utter lunatic under the breath]"
Dream Big or Live Small is just so much meaningless crap so of course it's going to win in an echo chamber chamber chamber.
It's the bathtub-thumping I can't stand.
DeleteYIR2 at 9:01 PM ... wot r u on about?
DeleteAnony at 11:41 PM
DeleteExactly! Glad you agree.
Agree aree aree aree…
DeleteI wonder what the normal Scot would say about YIR2 -
Delete"since 2011, the number of people in Scotland who describe themselves as “Scottish only” has risen from 62.4 per cent to 65.5 per cent. “British only” has also grown, from 8.4 to 13.9 per cent"
Good name for a party? The Country Party.
ReplyDeleteBut this will show you just how screwed up Scotland has been for centuries.
Deletehttps://www.scottisharchivesforschools.org/union1707/documentDownloads/The%20Political%20Players%20-%20Country%20Party.pdf
Sounds like an environmental/Green style Party tbh.
Delete"Country" sounds more like "Land Rovers and Fox Hunting" to me, setting aside the largely unknown history.
DeleteKnow your history and even you will move to Scotland and vote YES. Here's something for you:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.scottisharchivesforschools.org/
Oh YI2, you optimist! As American liberals often fool themselves: "our opponents can't be that irrational, they must just be misinformed." Then they look in wide mouthed horror at the legions who support Trump and seem to relish his lies as well, and they wonder what that vital "information" must be.
DeleteThe death of Alex (natural causes, or foul play?) puts us in an even worse position; once he had been fully exonerated in the public mind, not merely the courts - when the people know who lied against him and what their motives were and who set it all up - our true leader would have been able to return without the merest blemish on his character, a unifying figure, for a unified movement, who has the strategy and gravitas to finally get us back upon the road.
ReplyDelete- Alex trouble was he was too much of a nice guy. He believed in democracy, the system. What he was up against was the establishment (in other countries we would call this the deep state), who obey the rules only as long as it fits their interest. It is not called "perfidious albion" for nothing.
Alex, being a nice guy has as his model "the velvet divorce"; a no fault conscious uncoupling, civic nationalism, a loose franchise, come all ye jock tamsons bairns, living as you were in the early days of a better nation ... shame if the new scots don't feel all that scottish, want to be something else entirely, and the people on the other side you hope to play the game fairly, are mostly bad actors, with mental processes which are little better than reptilian. The english have been booted out of 65 countries, never asked back, and always kicking and screaming, taking a gigantic shit as they leave - northern ireland, india-pakistan, nigeria - you cannot start from anything other than the position that : they will try to screw you, if they can.
Nationalism, if it is to survive, will be progressed by nasty, unreasonable, men. And it will be men, for we see how disastrous the leadership of women has been; we have practically been ruled by a cabal of lesbians, or is it "coven of witches" for the past decade, and all that has been happened is - indy has been rolled back, general incompetence has taken over and all that has been pursued has been these bizarre and ridiculous petty obsessions with identity politics which coalesce around the rainbow flag.
I knew it was over when back in 2017? - Donald Trump, president, most powerful man in the world (and yes, he is a total shit and almost totally guilty of anything he is accused of), who is half Scottish and an obsessive when it comes to golf, was over in Scotland; think of him what you will, but he could have done a lot for our cause, if he got behind it; this is the art of realpolitik, getting what you want from horrible people.
- instead what did our "leader" do? She badmouthed him in public, then went to a Pride march, with all the freaks and perverts, because ... "the furry community" is going to get us to our "liberation" ...
it's almost like she didn't want to win; then there is brexit, another open goal, but what does she do - tries to "save" the english from their own freely made democratic choice. She doesn't even try to get us the "best of both worlds" deal like NI got. When Fortune comes a knocking, she ran out the back door.
In Scotland, Edinburgh is already enemy occupied and getting worse, the anglo invasion of the highlands and borders continues apace and the natives corralled into their bantustans, which they will have to share with economic migrants from the 3rd world ("asylum seekers" and students who "forgot" their visas ran out). The natives are also migrating, so as time passes we are losing supporters; since, in this land, anyone who turns up 5 minutes ago is allowed to vote on anything, we face the prospect of being condemned to losing, even the fairest referendum in the world, simply because the "demographic bomb" has been exploded on us. They won't even need to rig it anymore, once they have the numbers. Ever feel you've been cheated?
Righto
DeleteAgree with most of this
DeleteI wish I didn’t but it’s basically where we’re at
Creating the 19th next minority Independence Party that no one outside your street has heard of won’t help
We need to go on the front foot and make things happen
The only immigration problem in Scotland is from those who don’t see themselves as immigrants
The numbers game is running away from us
Sad but true (except for the 'foul play' bit, you're moving into tinfoil hat territory there).
DeleteI used to look at Wales as a cautionary tale about what the future holds for Scotland: more and more English migration until we are a minority in our own homeland.
DeleteRight now, though, Wales's independence movement looks a lot more hopeful than our own!
Guess Cornwall is my next example. Rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!
The defence was missing, the goalie wisnae there either. Sturgeon had a series of open goals and she never shot once. If that happened in a football match you would say that player is playing for the opposition ( been bribed). Yet astonishgly the team kept playing her as their star striker. She is a great communicator they would say - good in front of the cameras.
DeleteFoul play- stop this nonesense -at least for his families sake. How low can low life go?
ReplyDeleteRe the main point of the blog -- of course; but 'real world concerns', that is, the welfare of people living in Scotland, aren't just a propaganda point to promote independence. It's the other way round: the only purpose of independence is to improve people's welfare; otherwise it would just be jingoistic flag-waving.
ReplyDeleteThere is nothing foul about the desire to be free from another people ruling over you. Self determination is nothing dirtier than democracy itself.
DeleteI agree with your first point, though. And that's to say I agree with James's post, itself: preaching to the choir isn't going to get us out of this.
No need to use the plural, KC. You're not royal, either.
ReplyDeleteI see the Glasgow and Clyde Rape Crisis centre has withdrawn from the Rape Crisis Scotland organisation run by the odious Sandy Brindley, friend of the alphabetties and member of Sturgeon's gang. Brindley still insisting that men ( transwomen ) can counsel women who have been raped despite the independent report that condemned this practice as leaving women more traumatised after they left the Edinburgh centre than when they entered. The Glasgow branch made it clear they were going independent for this very reason.
ReplyDeleteIn any normal situation Brindley would be sacked. So why will the Scottish government continue to give this organisation money to continue to traumatise rape victims and pay Brindley's salary? It's obvious - she is and was the spokesperson for Sturgeon's alphabetties - an attempt to give the impression that Brindley was an independent professional when taking the side of the betties. She was nothing of the sort and remains in position getting public funds for that reason alone despite the damning report and continuing to say it is the policy of Rape Crisis Scotland to have men counsel female rape victims - ideology gone mad. The same ideology that had Sturgeon wanting male rapists in women's prisons.
I voted SNP for independence not all this sort of shit. Swinney was deputy when this was all put in place. He advised Sturgeon not to have Indyref2. Did he advise her not to go for all this shit?
Sturgeon's Scotland. Swinney's Scotland.
( Yousaf not even worth mentioning - a Muslim supporting this shit ).
Far from justice, Brindley will get a gong someday, alongside Liz Lloyd. Dorothy Bain probably already has one.
DeleteIsn’t Brinkley away so under new management.
DeleteAnon at 4.35pm - Not as far as I am aware. Perhaps you are thinking of the transwoman ( man) who was in charge of the Edinburgh branch who resigned. Brindley just apologised and stated they would be keeping their policy of allowing transwomen ( men ) to staff their Rape Crisis centres and counsel women who had been raped.
DeleteBrindley
ReplyDeleteI’m very confident Scotland will be an independent country soon.
ReplyDeleteI’m equally confident that Nessie will stick his/her head above the surface of Loch Ness, providing some luck tourists with an amazing photo opportunity.
I am KC and I endorse this message
DeleteIt is almost beyond belief that a man pretending to be a woman is allowed to hold a position as counsellor in a rape crisis centre.
ReplyDeleteWould a victim of racially motivated violence be assigned a white counsellor blacked up like Al Jolson?
But what if the counsellor caked in blackface said he really does believe he’s black?
DeleteDoes him calling her out for her visible discomfort as a racially motivated hate crime towards him make it better?
We are living in a new Scotland! Trans saltire emoji.
Don't give this shower ideas.
Delete" start speaking the language of voter's real world concerns"
ReplyDeleteMost voters wouldnae know what self determination was it if jumped out in front of them at Halloween. Most voters have no idea Scotland is a colony. The Britnats own all the media and are in charge of the information most voters get. The chance to change that was at the Smith Commission in 2014/15 and I doubt if it even entered Swinney's head he was so pathetic. Or perhaps he didnae try because he is a Britnat. Take your pick the end result is the same. Britnats control the message.
So we should pick the most important message and just keep hammering that home and it will eventually get through. No diluting the message by introducing other stuff. And that message is money - more of it for the people of Scotland and a better standard of living. Of course the Britnats are way ahead and have been for a decade now telling voters we would be paupers with independence. The greatest deceit ever sold to a nation. You can see that on SGP every day with KC punting his Britnat bullshit.
Now as that is "the most important real world message" ask yourself why the SNP keep providing on an annual basis the message that Scotland is mega poor with a massive deficit - ( its at ridiculous levels of propaganda now) by putting it on a plate for the Britnats by producing the nonsense and easily debunked annual GERS report. Anyone remember Sturgeon saying Derek McKay would provide a replacement GERS report - next thing he is caught in a nasty wee sex sting and off he goes out of government. Who picked it up - Kate Forbes - nope. Nobody picked it up. Year after year the SNP kindly produce this report that makes lovely headlines for the Record/Express/Mail and all the rest of the so called Scottish papers. Not to mention the Britnat Reporting Scotland and STV.
When Clinton famously said "it's the economy stupid". He was correct and that is the case in Scotland. Hammer that one message home. Independence will make us all better off. It's money stupid.
Shake off this crap that we cannae leave our pals/family in England poorer. England rips Scotland off and has since 1707. Point out the wealth of Norway across the North Sea. Point out they don't have problems re energy bills they have so much money they have to work hard to think what to do with it.
One key message - one focul point - and develop voters knowledge.
Capture the votes of the sad people whose hearts says yes but have been convinced by the Britnat propaganda that we cannae afford independence. Is there anything sadder than people of a nation being convinced they are too poor to be independent. TELL THEM THE TRUTH?
Will the SNP do this - nae chance - they are a bunch of self serving devolutionalists. Subservient to the core. Independence is the last thing any of them want
I never did understand why Scotgov kept publishing GERS. I assumed it was in the Scotland Act but no, it’s not. We all know why Nicola kept it up, but why did Salmond? He renamed Scotgov without authority or permission, and should have done the same to this tax payer funded propaganda for the Union.
DeleteAnon at 7.18pm Back in the day when Salmond was FM the GERS report actually reported a significant annual surplus so Salmond thought it was of short term benefit to produce it. This surplus nevertheless being well below the real surplus. But being an intelligent man and an economist he would have known that the Britnats could distort it in the future to produce massive deficits if they wanted to. This the Britnats did when they realised they had to up their propaganda game after the near miss of 2014.
DeleteSalmond had long resigned when the deficits started to come through every year - bigger and bigger - £ 6 billion growing to the laughable £23 billion. Any Independence Party in government should have stated this document is a fraud and we are no longer producing it. Let the Britnats produce it - after all it is their deficit.
Remember if it was true that Scotland had a £23 billion deficit then Labour could have instantly solved their £20 odd billion deficit problem by declaring Scotland independent. Rather than removing the winter fuel payment and all the other stuff coming our way in their budget next week.
Salmond would have known that you cannae really be defined as running a surplus or a deficit as a nation if you are not independent. If you are not independent you are not in control and therefore any surplus/deficit is not of your making.
Fair enough. I wasn’t following Holyrood much before indyref. For as long as I remember (not as long as you) GERS was an annual ritual which always reflected on us very poorly indeed.
DeleteNo one’s ever convinced by politicians saying “it wiznae us, it just happened on our watch.” And why it’s even still published under a supposedly pro independence Scotgov is just more evidence to suggest that they take their remaining supporters for mugs.
“It wiznae us.”’ Yap yap. Like and subscribe.
Anon at 8.07pm - it's often forgotten that Cameron actually said, prior to the referendum, something to the effect that nobody is actually saying Scotland couldn't be a successful independent country. I doubt he would have repeated that comment the week before the referendum when the poll was published that yes was in the majority and went for the Vow which broke the Edinburgh Agreement both he and Salmond signed. Salmond adhered to the Edinburgh Agreement. Cameron didn't. Perfidious Albion. You cannae trust the Britnats. Hopefully future independence leaders will have learned this lesson. England treats Scotland as its possession and therefore believes it owes Scots nothing - lies and deceit are their calling card. Yet the SNP used independence supporters money to pay the architect of the Vow Murray Foote a handsome salary.
DeleteI'd just about forgotten how refreshingly honest the Brits were about Scotland's wealth and prospects as an independent nation, back when they thought they were winning. Guess they once believed in Scots pride (actual pride, not the other kind) and thought better than treating us all like muppets. Then they found out their appeals to Blitz spirit, Barbara Windsor and all the other guff KC still spouts fell on distinctively foreign ears.
DeleteFuck it, let's pretend they're Somalia!
Most people know what self determination means, and for most people it doesn't involve politicians. If you need to be led, you don't have self determination.
DeleteShow me a country in the world that has no government, no leaders, and no professional political class to make all those things work.
DeleteOf course we need leadership! That's how every country functions, either under its own people's choice—the free—or someone else.
Salmond praised GERS as THE authoritative publication on Scotland's finances.
ReplyDeleteWith his background, he MUST have known its shortcomings, but chose to ignore them when the overall stats were favourable to Scotland.
Understandable - but by doing so, he painted the SNP/Scotgovt into a corner from which it is has proven very difficult to credibly exit.
As with the 'Once in a Generation' quip, not Salmond's best move.
Who actually said 'once in a generation'? I've heard it was Salmond and I've heard it was Sturgeon. Is there anything on the Internet where one of them says it?
Delete" painted in to a corner ' aye only if you are devolutionalists. Salmond would have binned it after the referendum if he hadn't resigned.
DeleteOnly a Britnat would repeat the once in a generation lie. Recent film shown when Salmond passed away showed the sign saying " one opportunity " and that's what it was. One opportunity in 307 years.
A Salmond didn't say that quip
DeleteB it's an obvious verbal flourish, nit an international treaty and not even something many picked up on at the time
C those like Macdonald, Noon, Yusaf and Swinney take note. Your words could bind a future FM on a defacto vote which is effectively what will be necessary at some point, albeit not now.
Salmond is on record using that phrase and also stating that there would not be another referendum within that timescale, even if YES lost by only one vote.
DeleteThat trope, however, has been used by unionists ever since - even though the Whitehall Mandarin who helped draw up the Edinburgh Agreement confirmed it was purely a political slogan with no legal weight.
Could be termed an 'own goal' by Salmond, alongside his bigging-up of GERS.
Salmond was normally a good political tactitian - of that there is no doubt - but maybe not in these two instances, which perhaps tied two large and unneccesary albatrosses around the YES Neck.
And - just in case some moron on here thinks I am a 'Britnat' - I have supported Independence for over 40 years, been an SNP Member for over a decade and voted for them for many decades previously.
Those who just indulge in hagiographies of Alex Salmond, do him and everyone else a disservice.
DF
DF - posting the same comment twice disnae lend it any more credibility. Just thought I would point that out to you. The only hagiographies that have been going on in the yes movement are for Sturgeon. Sorry to tell you DF saying you are for independence dusnae cut any ice on here. Our resident Britnat KC/Desperate Dan posted for a while as various independence supporters - he told us that honestly himself 😂😂😂😂.
DeleteThe only albatrosses are the ones imagined in your independent or Britnat mind. It's obvious to most independence supporters that no politician can bind the future desires of the people of Scotland. Indeed the Smith report which is a legal document states that nothing that has happened previously prevents further action on independence.
And your opinion matters to me WHY exactly, sonny?
DeleteYou seem to think you speak for 'this site', when, in reality, you only speak for yourself.
As for your 'opinion' as to whether I am a genuine Indy Supporter.....it matters about as much as a fart in a strong breeze.
I was a Salmond supporter and fan for most of his political career and was proud to join the cavalcade of cars in his cortege from Aberdeen Airport to Fraserburgh.
However, I also acknowledge his numerous faults and some political mis-steps towards the end of his life.
Something you seem incapable of doing.
In case you missed it, I also referenced the testimony from the Whitehall Mandarin who drew up the Edinburgh Agreement and agree totally on what the Smith Commission stated.
DF
DeleteIf you cannot even admit to Alex's obvious mis-steps/faults, while crucifying other Indy Politicians for theirs, you really do not have a leg to stand on, sonny.
DeleteAnyhoo......even a total balloon like you can be correct sometimes - and I agree with your earlier concentration on 'the money/economy'.
Undecides MUST be convinced, first and foremost, through their pockets/bank balances, otherwise they will never come across to YES. All the stuff we Yessers love to spout about 'Freedom/Colony/Self Determination' etc...seems to wash over them like the morning haar drifting in from the sea and then disappearing completely only a few hours later.
Until we convince them on THAT aspect, we are on to plumbs.
Therefore, the VAST majority of our advertising should home-in on how most Scots will be better off, away from WM Control.
DF
It's pretty pathetic stuff trying to blame Salmond for the 10 years that Sturgeon, Yousaf and now Swinney just let the GERS report spoon feed the Britnat media every August with its too poor to be independent propaganda. 10 YEARS!
DeleteWhat's next - it was Salmond's fault that Bain was sent down to a London court to ask permission for the Scots to exercise their right to self determination.
What's next - it was Salmond's fault that the promised de facto referendum was cancelled.
Lol.
DeleteYou REALLY have a mental block on his failings, doncha sonny 😂😂😂
DF
DF - Daddy Fart at 11.04pm seems to think my abilities should include mind reading.
DeleteIfs doesn’t support the snp or ALBA or the Greens. He is his own party of 1 and will not deliver a pizza never mind independence
DeleteLol.
DeleteAnd about as useful to the Yes Movement as a used incontinence-pad.
Oh well you can always tell when someone has lost the plot when they say " get a life " the cretin bit is an optional add on. Daddy Fart is happy to fire of the insults but it is obvious he needs his own version of the Israel iron dome because he cannae handle any critical analysis of his comments.
DeleteSo DF decides not to state the faults / mis steps that he so desperately thinks I must agree to. Funny way to behave - you must agree with this but I am not telling you what you must agree with but you must agree with it or you are a sychophant. Can't say I've ever come across this flavour of argument before. Seems ridiculous to me. If you want to see a sychophant you will see plenty in the SNP. Plenty more nicophants posting on WGD.
I note in your latest ramble your priority is the SNP winning seats in Westminster.They've done that before in case you have forgotten - 56 out of 59. 37 then 48 seats. What did they do about independence - zero.
Your SNP is a phoney party of independence and has been for the last 10 years. If you want to keep kidding yourself on fine that's your right but you don't get to force me to join in on your delusion.
And there you are Dave Francis at 12.15 am and 12.29 am the character and intellect of your fellow travellers.
DeleteWhat's YOUR name then, sonny???
DeleteAll you SNP members should get a tattoo on your left hand with the date 19/10/2023 and below it saying
Delete" I will get fooled again"
DF - at 12.36am - I think you have forgotten to post DF again. Well if you believe the type of people who troll on SGP I am McEleny, Campbell, a friend of Campbell, even our site host James. I always know that when the focus becomes me rather than the points being discussed they have nothing - lost the plot - lost the argument. You can call me Sonny Bono if that helps.
DeleteAnon at 12.15am - I’m pretty sure you have probably delivered a lot of pizzas this week.
DeleteAnon at 12.29am - you of course just post pish.
You are just another anon coward, pal.
DeleteThere should be a rule on every SM Site, that you MUST post only with your true identity, unless you can show a compelling reason not to.
That rule alone, would root out many of the creeps floating about those sites, cloaked in protective anonimity.
Cannot come too soon.
Dave Francis
Anon at 12:55 AM
DeleteWhy would you want someone's real name? So you can look them up and stalk them and their family? You do know there are people who do exactly that? You're creeeeepy.
Lol.
DeleteAn anonymous creep calling someone else creepy 😂😂😂
Crawl out from behind yer wee anon stone.
DF - for someone who initially claimed not to be interested in my opinion - like a fart in a breeze - you now seem very exercised. I have a very compelling reason not to reveal who I am - all the psychos that are about and strangely enough it's not the Britnat trolls it's the SNP cult members. Personally I couldn't care less if your name is Dave Francis or Daddy Fart. You couldn't debate responsibly. Have a good look at your own posts.
DeleteMirror-time, Troll.
DeleteFind a spine and post under your real name.
If I can do it on every single SM site I use, why can't you???
Dave Francis
DeleteNah, that's a pseudonym. The D clearly stands for Diddy,
DeleteDF - you forgot to post your name again - sure that's your name - you seem to forget it a lot.
DeleteYours Sonny Bono.
Of course, IFS you don't use your real name but 'Dave Francis' does because...Well because 'Dave' says he does. Laughable nonsense.
DeleteDF said: "Salmond is on record using that phrase and also stating that there would not be another referendum within that timescale, even if YES lost by only one vote."
DeleteNo. What Salmond said was "once in a generation opportunity".
Even the BBC gets it right: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661
And the rest of what you say is a complete and utter lie.
If you really are "DF" you've totally lost the plot.
yesindyref2 aka Peter Piper
I'm still waiting for someone to post a link to physical evidence of Salmond or Sturgeon saying this - nobody ever does.
DeleteThey're swaying towards the SNP and a gig on The National.
ReplyDeleteThe National says shut up and eat your cereal.
DeleteTo win independence we need people who are in middle of yes/no to want it.
ReplyDeleteBy being too hardline and not addressing their concerns means we will never achieve it.
Pushing labours (and tory and fibdem) failings is the way to win hearts and minds.
I fear in 20 years it will still be peoples front of judea/judean peoples front.
You have to ask yourself who benefits from this mindset and has elsewhere when its empire was threatened?
I hear you, anon. But the question I have for you is: *who* is your advice for? Who must take action to get us back on the road to independence?
DeleteYou make a very good point.
DeleteI agree, to win independence we need soft Yes/No voters on board, and to really want independence.
Not nearly enough has been done to convince these people that independence would be good for Scotland.
I voted No in 2014, but have since become disillusioned with the UK. We had years of the Tories going from bad to worse, now Labour looking like they might not be much better, though admittedly it’s early days. Not to mention the Brexit disaster!
I never thought I’d ever support independence, but I’m in two minds these days.
However the SNP/Yes movement need to do more to convince the likes of me. Important issues like currency, border with England, pensions, etc really need to be addressed, and questions answered in a positive way. Had this been done in the lead up to the 2014 referendum, I suspect the result would have been different. Ten years on, these same issues still haven’t been addressed in a positive way. Only when they are will a sufficient number of people switch sides, which will potentially lead to independence.
I'm surprised Jimmy that independent Norway just across the North Sea from Scotland having a Trillion pound wealth fund hasnt convinced you of the merits of independence.
DeleteThis is very tiresome - but it shows how much the Britnats control the message. 10 years on even some independence supporters ( or so they say) keep repeating the once in a generation nonsense. There was no PROMISE that Indyref in 2014 was a once in a generation referendum and even if there was, which there wasn't, no politician can bind the future wishes of the Scottish people (unless Scotland is a colony.)
ReplyDeleteBritnat politicians regularly refer to an election as a once in a generation election. Nobody seriously takes that to mean they are promising no other election for a generation.
So why do supposed independence supporters keep bringing this crap up? We know why Britnats bring it up. It's an attempt (failed) to try to give some legitimacy to their denial of Scots right to self determination. England has long had its possessions returned to their rightful owners over a long period of Empire decline and they don't like it. Scotland is another of their most valuable possessions. England world class thieves objecting to lands being returned to their rightful owners.
Rachel Reeves gave the game away recently when she claimed she was the first women Chancellor in 800 years of history. The UK is just a false name for the true reality of Greater England. If you saw the UK as your country Reeves would have said in 300 years not 800.
Didn't the UK government (via the attorney general I’m guessing) issue a legal opinion around the time of indyref that technically the Parliament of Scotland had been dissolved and annexed by the Parliament of England, which continued under a new name?
DeleteCertainly, that's the way they've always run the UK. It's incompatible with the Treaty of Union, but a little thing like breaking the law and international agreements never stopped Perfidious Albion in all her global dealings.
The movement said it now? You've got me on tape, too?
DeleteWe'll be waiting until we're all stone deid for as long as the Devolutionists are in control, sadly.
This is why I asked. Nobody ever produces physical evidence of anyone saying this 'once in a generation' line. It's all just hearsay and misquoting people. But where's the definitive proof of who said what?
DeleteWell thanks for that but I notice it refers to an 'opportunity' not a referendum in itself.
DeleteFor goodness sake. This really is tiresome nonsense. There are no words saying we promise PROMISE never to have another referendum for a generation. What do people not see in that there is no promise made and no legal statement signed by anyone promising not to have another referendum in a generation.
DeleteDo you posters not know what the word promise means?
Even if every member of the SNP did say we promise not to have another referendum for a generation it is not for them to promise that on behalf of the Scottish people.
What a load of rubbish about the white paper being sent to every household in Scotland. That document is not a legal document anyway and is totally irrelevant.
Switzerland one of the wealthiest countries on the planet have referendums all the time. Not a problem to them. You know that if another country is refusing your right to self determination then you are a colony.
Any person promoting this rubbish about once in a generation and saying they support independence is KC kidding on again he is an independence supporter.
I think probably 20 years qualifies as a generation, so in another ten the Britnats won’t can use this argument. They’ll have no choice but to grant us another referendum then.
DeleteNo it doesn’t. NI agreement it is 7 years.
DeleteAnon at 1:33 PM
Deleteyou give the ferret link which says this:
"Claim Sturgeon signed ‘once in a generation’ indyref agreement is Mostly False"
And then you post exactly what was said in Scotland's Future:
"A once in a generation opportunity"
It says "OPPORTUNITY not pledge / promise / agreement.
The links you give actually totally contradict yourself.
So "she" didn't say it, nor did Salmond, nor did the Indy Movement.
"OPPORTUNITY".
Delusional stuff from anon at 3.27pm. The Britnats used to say after the 2014 referendum you cannae have another referendum for 10 years. Now ten years is past they say you cannae ever have one again. If you think you just wait another 10 years and they just say ok then have a referendum you are either delusional or a Britnat. It ain't happening not now not in 20 years. The only option for a democratic vote is the de facto referendum and we know what happened there with the SNP. They promised one and then said no. Just another SNP broken promise.
Delete" They'll have no choice " we live in a colony.
IFS,
DeleteMy point is that in ten years time the “generation “ will be up!!
4.32pm My point is that it is irrelevant.
DeleteWhat force could make them do it? The UK government knows just what a cash cow Scotland is, as the territory with all of their best resources. The financial hit would be incomprehensible for them.
DeleteAnd then there's the matter of the backlash "rUK"—England—would have against any government which let the Scots up and leave. It's career ending stuff for a prime minister in itself, and the economic consequences would be like Trussmageddon many times over. It would be a deathblow to whichever party was in power and foolish enough to facilitate it.
No, they're not letting us have our indy. We must take it. By the time it comes to them, our independence must be an internationally recognised fait accompli.
GERS is when the people who robbed you, tell you how poor you are.
ReplyDeleteThe true pillage of Scotland is revealed by comparative GDP studies; our peer nations - Norway, Ireland, Switzerland have GDP in the 600-800B a year range (interesting - Ireland's is higher than Norway, but has no oil). Scotland's GDP is supposedly 200B. How Scotland's accounts are made up, is "problematic" to say the least, but let's look at it both ways :
- if this number is right, then it shows a catastrophic mismanagement of Scotland's economy by London.
- if this number is wrong and it is actually much higher, then it proves the colossal robbery which is being enacted on Scotland.
Either way, there is no argument for union. We are poor because of London.
Let's argue from absurdity - suppose the UK made an offer to the norwegians to join "the most successful political union in history" - would they do it? No, but they might die laughing at the idea : "better together" - aye, so the London skyscrapers get twice as tall, Norway is reduced to the level of Wales, and the new british supernuke gets berthed in OSLO?
what is GTF in norwegian?
GERS is when the people who robbed you have their little helpers in Scotgov tell us how poor we are in their own words.
DeleteWhat a party of independence!
As if the Scots could stand on there own two feet! Specially after a big night out!! Nice dream for them, but really...
DeleteTo you, KC, "Scotland" is that mythical place tired EastEnders characters go away to for some time off from the show. Bless your butcher's apron socks.
DeleteRacist comment from anon at 12.58pm. The same stuff they said about Malta and many many other parts of the world they invaded murdered, raped, enslaved and pillaged and then tried to tell people they were there to help them.
DeleteA lot of truth in what 12.58 says. Look at Kenya and the rest of them. Basket cases left on their own.
DeleteAnon at 4.41pm - Malta isnae in Africa and neither is Scotland.
DeleteI beg to differ. Learn some geographical facts.
DeleteScotland won't exist in 20 years, not recognisably so. Our culture will become extinct. The highlands and borders will be full of english, fleeing the floodplains of the south and the multiculturalism of the midlands. The natives will themselves be flooded by "BAMS" and told not to be racist about it. And with the dices loaded, we can have a referendum from now till the end of time, with no chance of ever winning it.
ReplyDeleteThe future for the Scots is on the reservation (the M8 strip) we can do twinning with the gaza strip, the abos, or the apache nations.
That's the spirit.
DeleteThere's a ring of truth to this unfortunately
DeleteThere's a ring of false flag shite to this unfortunately
DeleteThere's a stink of false flag poop to this twaddle.
Deleteare the scotch not glad to be almost englishmen; have they not won the lottery of life - has the wise pimp hand not steadied them from their tendency for fratricide, sentimentality and hard drink?
Deleteyou might be right about this, but no one will believe it till it's happened, and the youth will just be used to living in an anglo-fied multicultural shithole owned by BlackRock. No one wants to look at spreadsheets of migration, net migration, demographics, when we have drag queen bakery come dancing with the daleks half hour.
Deletethe south east of england will be under water by 2050, which will provide some humour. Maybe they will get elon musks grandson to dam the north sea for them.
If it really came to England being inundated, then the English will simply come here. All of them.
DeleteI remember Jeremy Corbyn saying this is a once in a generation opportunity to get rid of the Tories
ReplyDeleteI remember when Kier Starmer said this is a once in a generation opportunity to fix our economy
I also remember that these British political parties stand for election every five years saying the same things, and every five years nobody ever questions that a political generation opportunity is every five years
Politics isn't "Allo Allo I will say this only once" or an Egyptian Pharaoh proclaiming "so let it be written so let it be done"
The British sold slaves sold to America that were freed in far less than 300 odd years
Holding any politician of any country in the world to one word they ever said in an election is the behaviour and rule of the dictator
The British are dictators, they elect dictators by the most undemocratic systems they can devise so that only they can win
First past the post voting is designed so that by one single vote an English elected leader can rule an entire continent of countries, then refuse to acknowledge there were ever separate countries involved in the first place, then declare those countries are one country when every geography and history book in the world shows that there are 4 countries in Great Britain
Every English elected PM is a fascist dictator ruling with the self appointed powers of previous English Monarchs
Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland cannot ever win a British election, that is not equality, that's oppression and suppression of equality
Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland are being told on a daily basis that we are not as worthy as the people who live in England
Agree . Minor correction- there are only 3 counties in GB , unless we include Kernow / Cornwall. The 4th is Ireland and should go back to them
Delete4th is in Ireland , I mean on the Island of Ireland.
DeleteWell said.
DeleteDr Jim at 5.54pm That makes a pleasant change Dr Jim from your usual nonsense about Salmond.
DeleteThe majority against independence isn’t that big though and could change in future.
ReplyDeleteThe britnats ignored the 62% pro European, they will ignore anything that does not suit. They are thieves
ReplyDeleteYES 52
ReplyDeleteNO 48
In latest poll.
These good news stories need brandished. It'd astonishing independence is more than a living issue after the doom. Anyone reading the long game here when SNP/pro indy parties are back on the up?