I just want to make one simple point. Although it's an important point, there's nothing complicated about it and it can be explained very briefly. On polling day, Stuart Campbell broke his word to his readers. He had previously assured them he would never tell them how to vote, but instead he ended up instructing them to vote Labour: "there’s a job that needs doing...grit your teeth and gird your loins and get it done". Although this would mean they'd be voting for an avowedly anti-independence party, Campbell tried to make out that they'd somehow be playing a game of five-dimensional chess and bringing independence closer.
So having got the election outcome he wanted (I doubt if many people were stupid enough to follow his advice, but he got the outcome anyway), you might have been forgiven for expecting some kind of guidance from him about where the cunning masterplan goes from here and how precisely independence has been brought closer. But nope. Instead, he brazenly asked his readers for suggestions about how he should spend the next two years, because he couldn't see any way forward. And then on Thursday, he announced that: "Independence is dead as a political issue in Scotland for the next few years. This much should not be in any dispute."
And why is independence dead in his view? Oh, he is in no doubt whatever about the reason: "A Labour government with a crushing majority sits firmly in Westminster with absolutely no intentions of granting a second referendum". That'll be the Labour government he instructed his readers to elect with as crushing a majority as possible. In other words, he knowingly gave his readers advice intended to "kill" independence - exactly as I and others pointed out he was doing at the time. Those who said we were wrong owe us an apology.
Independence is of course not dead, whatever the fantasies of the Brit Nat commetariat and Stuart Campbell (essentially one and the same thing). The era of "muscular unionism" and "now is not the time" under Theresa May started, seemingly, at a moment of maximum weakness for the Brit Nat side - the SNP had 54 of the 59 Scottish seats at Westminster, and were dominant at Holyrood. It's therefore not at all hard to imagine the pro-indy movement starting a fightback in the current circumstances which are far less unfavourable than anything the Scottish Tories faced in 2016-17. But it does actually require someone to go out there and make the political weather, rather than just passively accepting the fatalistic nonsense being put about by the likes of Campbell.
I won't give Campbell any advice about how he should spend the next two years, but I'll make a prediction about how he will spend them - he'll campaign for a Labour-led Scottish government under Anas Sarwar, because he thinks independence hasn't been killed quite enough yet. It would be grand if we could stop pretending this guy is anything other than an anti-independence campaigner at this stage. If that's what his dwindling band of die-hard fans actually believe in, fine, but if not, they've been brainwashed by a bog-standard cult leader.
Always surprised the pro independence supporters would support Campbell. The Rev is a phoney of course. I don’t think it is unreasonable to infer that anyone pro Campbell is in fact pro unionism.
ReplyDeleteOr really stupid.
DeleteTongue firmly in cheek...The Campbell clan was always known to play both sides. Chip off the old block
ReplyDeleteCampbell is undoubtedly wrong when he says “independence is dead as a political issue in Scotland for the next few years”, given that the SNP were just 5 per cent behind Labour at the general election. Wasn't exactly a humping!
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Crazy comment from Campbell. Can't he count?
DeleteHe's nothing but an income poop.
DeleteYou are obviously ignorant of the fact that the Holyrood elections -held by a PR system is in 2 years. Independent supporters must vote go independent parties and the stay at homes will turn up. Even the 30% independent labour supporters may join in.
ReplyDeleteI think demographic may go against us and the entire concept of "nation states" are going out of fashion as the orthdoxy of the mainstream a bit like religion. Hence why the Right is increasing as a forlorn reaction but is on a hiding in the long run as the youth simply don't care about national solidarity. They are far more interested in their own "sectional identities" of which nationality has slipped way down the priorities.
ReplyDeleteI'll support independence til my dying day and I wouldn't say it's impossible but modern world is creating new issues we couldn't have considered in 2014.
I don't even know what that means. Youth support for independence is much stronger than it was in 2014, not weaker.
DeleteAs a lifelong unionist it pains me to say this, but it's hard to see how the Union can be saved. An unpopular Labour government in London will be such an obvious target.
DeleteNations as an idea of political weight is going out of fashion like religion did. In 20 years people will be debating what the point of being proud of your nation was all about.
DeleteI don't agree and think there will be a reaction to this. It's already happening in Spain, france and Italy .
I can remember people saying things like that twenty or thirty years ago, and it's even less true now than it was then. For better or worse, nationalism is a stronger force in the world now, not weaker.
DeleteIt's a late charge of the light brigade. France has obviously seen a surge yet it's no majority and it's not going to go higher as older people die off and national identity weakens. Some parts of nations feel their identity is under threat (which it kind of is) and will vote accordingly but it's slowly weakening.
DeleteWhen will the World Cup be a contest between teams for sectional identities (moustache enthusiasts, Minecraft cosplayers, furries?) instead of the same tired old nations absolutely no one cares about? 😉
Delete"France"? "Obviously"? Can you never discern any commitment to the nation without support for fascists? You don't seem to be drawing much distinction.
DeleteHi James, yes I can but don't think this nullifies the point.
DeleteThere are ranges of nationalism with the stronger ones getting more votes, although probably a peak, at the moment as local population feels threatened.
Independence definitely not dead. Sometimes I think we overthink the matter because it is so close to us, but the polls are fairly consistent around 50pc. I remember when it was half that not so long ago. I know I'm out of step with a lot of people here, but I think the uncoupling of independence from the SNP will be a good thing in the long term. It gives us the chance to take more control rather than leave it to people who are supposed to represent us rather than tell us.
ReplyDeleteIt means the same as half the population supporting corporal punishment but no party having the wherewithal to put it forward as a serious issue.
DeleteIt'll come again but not til labour have inevitably failed to deliver and are even more unpopular than SNP.
Once SNP is seen as the change option again, we may be onto a winner.
It's only 15% of the population that changes the country. The sort who won't vote the same party forever and who want change occasionally
I remember post 2014 the WoS Twitter Account went offline for several days with SC seemingly being brought into discussions with the “authorities”. WoS has never shown the same support for SNP or Indy since then. Suspect it has been compromised and I now discount its input entirely as I suggest everyone else in Scotland should.
DeleteI think Stu Campbell’s pronouns are he/him, not “it.” Though right enough he doesn’t proclaim them prominently on his blog…
Delete"Stu"
DeleteIt's love.
Never had any trust in Campbell. Socially inadequate little shit, making money out of the gullible and the stupid. Even now they support him and send him money. He has never supported Indy, only his bank balance.
DeleteI think the SNP killed indy, Sturgeon the crown agent, Leslie Evans here handler. We will see her in ermine one day.
ReplyDeleteGrow up. Move on. Most of the population has.
Delete"Move on" as in "Nothing to see here..."
DeleteYou'd like that where the SNP are concerned, wouldn't you?
I was blocked in his blog like so many others. As a defender of free speech he really means his own notwithstanding the court cases.
ReplyDeleteBack from a lovely holiday in sunny Majorca. What a state the political parties for independence are in. Campbell is talking nonsense about independence being dead. Nobody supporting independence should EVER advocate voting for or supporting any British party.
ReplyDeleteI warned that the SNP under Sturgeon would never deliver independence and I was right. I also warned that someone who would carry out such a plot against Salmond was not someone who could be trusted. Again I was right. Yet posters on the previous article blame me - laughable - the SNP did this to themselves by supporting Sturgeon's gang. The membership had the chance to elect a leader who actually wanted independence but blew it by voting for Yousaf. Again they were warned that Yousaf was useless - but do they listen - nae chance. Yousaf didnae last long despite numpties going on about him growing in to the job.
Next up was Sturgeon's Redactor Man Swinney - a joke to call him honest John. They even massively redacted the independent report on whether Sturgeon broke the ministerial code without telling the author. Did Honest John ever ask where the missing £600 was. The accountant who looked away? A man who has a track record of losing every election as leader. Yet these headcases blame me. They say I have gone away now that my job in destroying the SNP is done. What clowns these people are. Talking about clowns where has Declan ( Skier gone)?
I've been warning you for 4 years. Some of these trolls call me Mr Angry - well you should be angry if you support Scottish independence because these SNP numpties have blown the best opportunities to free Scotland by supporting Sturgeon's gang.
Now they still don't listen. It's your fault SNP numpties - own it.
Jerry, you are nowt but a Britnat troll who can stuff your union flag where the sun don't shine.
DeleteAlways happy to be abusive to Britnat trolls. Do you love Britnat trolls? I have been posting my opinion on what should happen to advance independence on SGP since 2020. Where have you been?
DeleteDid Ireland, India, Canada, Australia, hell even the United States of America stay in the empire because London said no? Gies peace KC. Even mighty Malta won independence from Britain! If you want it, you do what it takes to get it.
DeleteYou missed the word IF at the beginning of my quote.
DeleteI don’t think we have a determined majority for independence YET either. But I do know we have the means when we cross that threshold.
IFS@5:20, I agree with most of your post, however where I disagree is in regard to John Swinney, a decent man who stepped up to the plate in his party’s hour of need.
DeleteHe hasn’t put a foot wrong since he became FM. I don’t see anybody better for the position, and he should be given til at least the 2026 Holyrood election. He needs to be given a chance, we can’t be changing leaders yet again.
Anon @ 7:59 PM
DeleteYou don't believe the SNP's 2024 election strategy was the wrong one? Swinney had the capability to change it.
Idiot for Scotland. Not a member of any party. Never knocked a door or staffed a stall in support of Indy.
DeleteAnon troll at 9.18pm - who are you? I don't know anyone called anon troll. I note you cannae dispute the truth of what I say.
DeleteAnon at 7.59pm - a decent man disnae cover up the misdeeds of people who had done wrong. A decent man disnae look the other way when wrongdoing is taking place place. Finally, Swinney is a devolutionalist.
Nonsense doesn’t need to be disputed. I see you accept my points about you.
DeleteA pair of tossers at 8.00am and 11.02am.
DeleteIdiot for Scotland is just a sad wee troll. He readily admits to never having canvassed for Indy, never knocked on a door, never staffed a stall. He sits anonymously behind a keyboard spewing out abuse and lies. His is the behaviour of a closet unionist. What a pathetic life he leads. This forum is all he has. In the real world he’d last seconds spewing out his abuse. Classic keyboard warrior. To be pitied. And not the sharpest. Even his wee band of fell trolls are distancing themselves from him.
DeleteThe same pair of tossers at 12.06pm and 12.35pm. I have never readily admitted anything to the anon troll at 12.35 who is just a blatant liar and a Britnat.
DeleteAnon at 22.35pm - quite the imagination you have there troll. I would never readily admit anything liars like you say.
DeleteSimple point about your complete lack of action in support of Indy. And it’s true, by your own admission. Have a wee lie down.
DeleteIfS, stop slagging your china, Stu.
DeleteAnon at 4.52pm - I would never admit anything to someone like you so you have proved yourself to be a lying lowlife troll.
DeleteAnon at 10.44pm - another lowlife troll.
Stay off the sauce Idiot for Scotland, you are embarrassing yourself.
DeleteAway and nibble your vegan pasties
ReplyDeleteTasty with fava beans and a nice Chianti !
DeleteKC at 5.47pm is just Jerry. Lost count of the number of times the Britnat troll has posted clutching at straws. Just a Britnat demonstrating a lack of imagination.
ReplyDeleteIfs - yeh we believe you.
DeleteI do find Jerry's perspective quite telling.
ReplyDeleteScotland isn't seen as a partner in a supposed union of equals. He sees Scotland as a child and Westminster the parent. When in reality it's more akin to being in an abusive relationship with a partner who insists you can't leave & that you'd be nothing without them.
Scotland is a de facto colony of England. Colonial England has never told any of its colonies that they would be better off not being a colony. It's always the opposite.
Deletearen't you proud to be part of the most successful political union in history, that only a mere 65 nations ever left, misguidedly.
DeleteIf Scots ever show they want independence by a clear and obvious majority the whole picture changes.
DeleteWe currently don't and London are not going to make it easy for us.
@7:42,
DeleteThat’s the main problem isn’t it, there is no clear and obvious majority in favour of independence. Clearly that needs to change for progress to be made.
A clear and obvious majority the party of independence can demonstrate any time there is an election. If Scots really want it, and if that party has the balls to try!
DeleteAgreed 7:49. Right now we’re in a gloomy spot where Scots are more scunnered with the SNP’s lengthy rule than motivated with hope for independence.
DeleteIf Yes was high enough to convince the devolutionists atop the party to take the de facto route, they’d be forced to do it.
If the SNP itself was more popular and actually had a positive vision of independent Scotland people can believe in, Yes may well dominate in the polls.
But right now? We have neither. It’s a Catch-22 until something changes. Fortunately, politics seems particularly turbulent worldwide, so changes will come. Our leadership must seize them like they never did in 2016 and since.
Ifs@7:12,
DeleteYou seem confident we would be better off if we were independent.
Not seen an economist yet who agrees with that. Then again, maybe you’re better qualified.
8.13
DeleteTry the economic panel who were on the white paper committee.
Including Joseph Stiglitz and others.
Angus Grosshart also, while keeping his cards close, basically accepted Scotland could run very well as an independent country.
DeleteSurely Ireland with fewer resources and higher wages for its people shows it be done. Iceland with the population of Aberdeen have higher wages as well.
DeleteWhether it can and whether it will are two different things but the idea a medium sized European country couldn't do it, is simply ridiculous.
Anyone know how Iceland has am average salary of nearly 5000 euros gross?
DeleteThey should sign up to our union of equals. It would be great for them.
Per month that is!!
DeleteLow corpo tax competition with ireland?
DeleteI'd take Irelands standard of living anyway that's for sure
DeleteSo head to head on low corpo tax?
DeleteWhat's corporation tax of all the countries in our vicinity?
DeleteIreland
Demark
Norway
Sweden
UK
Iceland
Most of these countries are not all that different to Scotland in size and resources per capita yet have a higher standard of living.
We literally have a country next to us half the world can barely tell us apart from doing well, yet our own people are so craven they think it's impossible we could run our own affairs. I dispair
Concretely are you proposing going head to head with Ireland on corpo tax?
DeleteI am proposing as a non expert countries of similar resources and size function quite well as independent counties. It's upto the govt to set the tax as they see fit, as does Ireland's govt at every budget.
DeleteConcretely, I would suggest Ireland would still be poor if it didn't run its own affairs. And the same bores would be telling the same stories they tell scotland now.
DeleteThanks for the replies.
DeleteAnon at 8.13pm - would the experts you refer to be the same type of expert who said in the 70's the oil would run out in the 80s. Or is it the same type of expert who said in the 80s the oil would run out in the 90s. Or is it the same type of expert who said in 2014 that there was only 10 years worth of oil left.
DeleteThe majority of the top ten GDP per head countries have all been small independent countries.
Only Scots with a colonised mindset think that Scotland would not be far better off as an independent country.
But oil = CO2 emissions. We need to wean off that.
DeleteBetter to focus on all of Scotland's other, renewable, resources when making this argument.
Anon at 8.47am - try reading my post again. But as I am a nice guy who likes to be helpful I'll spell it out for you. The post was about experts and their long history of lies to keep Scotland as a colony.
DeleteIt was NOT about making an economic case for independence based on oil.
What did ALBA decide in Perth?
ReplyDeleteWho makes the sandwiches ?
DeleteJames are you following the US election at all?
ReplyDeletePretty big news today of Joe Biden dropping out of the race. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on what happens now.
Interesting series of events though. Craig Murray brags he has copies of SNP MP Stewart McDonald's emails re defence etc and claims he has them in the public interest. Really? He joins Alba and as far as Alba are concerned it's ok if he becomes a candidate for the Workers Party in England - and the independence movement support this because...?
ReplyDeleteWomen Won't Wheesht twitter encouraging people to do the SNP member survey telling everyone it's not password protected with a link to Wings over Scotland.
Now SNP data protection officer reported as his emails have been hacked and oddly Chris McEleney happened to receive an email.
Now given some people find this sort of stuff funny and another way to kick the SNP - what sort of people brag publicly about this stuff and are still considered it's ok if it's against the SNP. Does that mean it's also ok if they do it to anybody else - or is everything to do with the SNP fair game?
Has a bit of a whiff to it does it not. What else do these people get up to? Fiddle with accounts online? etc etc etc
Is this what the supposed independence movement is these days? A little ex Salmond person told me months ago there was no such thing as the independence movement and it was hilarious that people out there believed there is such a thing. Kind of sounds as if that's the truth!!!!
Non idea what the Mcdonald emails thing is supposed to mean. He's literally a threat to the independence movement and certainly no threat to the UKs territrial integrity. I'm surprised his emails haven't come out.
DeleteIsn’t leaking another persons email if you are not the intended recipient illegal?
DeleteProbably. Deceitfully raking in votes on the false premise you're in pursuit of independence can't be far behind on the moral scale right enough.
DeleteNo offense but doesn't this show the terrible state the SNP are in? I don't know anything about the details mentioned here but if these have been leaks and there isn't robust defences against hacks then surely the party itself should be reporting itself to the information commissioner? This is a data protection matter.
DeleteThe snp forgot they are literally there to break up the British state in favour of a Scotland gone. Running away to the security services of said state is exactly what you'd expect them to do, right enough. They got comfy and let London keep them comfy.
DeleteIndependence is stuck in a cul de sac with the SNP. Electing them in 2026, will enable them to sit on their collective arses for 5 years.
ReplyDeleteThe fact Swinney is staying on, should sound alarm bells. They think everything is fine.
It will take at least 8 years for a new indi party to get some traction. But its the only way. So independence is dead for at least 10 years. There is no quick fix.
The fact that alarm bells aren't ringing at the moment following the General Election result and there's not much push for any reforms or changes to be made within the Party should be concerning everyone who still supports them.
DeleteThere just seems to be a thought process that the electorate got it wrong, the SNP don't need to change & people will return to voting SNP because reasons. It's bonkers!
What's the grand plan?
DeleteWhat really needs to happen is a massive olive branch to all and sundry from the SNP including alba, greens, the left, the right, the churches and the unions.
If they can't bring it together then it's finished.
Either that or wait for the defeat and just wait long enough for labour to make an arse of it.
Hey it worked for Labour.
It's exactly what the Labour Party thought for years after the SNP first got power.
DeleteThe underminers start early- 2 years to go guys. I suppose you are sufficiently worried to start early.
DeleteI'd love it if snp won pal. Im looking at this dispassionately as I can.
DeleteAre people seriously looking at the drastic drop in the polls in support for the SNP, loss of a significant number of Party members, losing 38 seats in the General Election and thinking: Nothing to see here, all is well?
DeleteWhy do so many have their head in the sand pretending nothings wrong? It's like the living embodiment of that "this is fine" meme with flames all around...
You dinner hawf gie it ta yon Rev laddie. Keep it up mon yir a WARRIOR!
ReplyDeleteFloy
DeleteWhat did ALBA decide in Perth? Anyone know?
ReplyDeleteNothing
DeleteIt was a National Assembly a meeting that constitutionally decides nothing
All the candidates got to boast about their great campaigns (average result 1.5%)
The only interesting thing was some guy haranguing Salmond about Salmond
Voting SNP.
Alba is not a serious political party at all. Rob Thomson the Organisation Convener got 5 minutes
After such a poor result you’d have thought there would have been a bit more analysis
Alba is electorally dead as Robin MacAlpine says and it is now just a vehicle for Salmond. It also helps him maintain his lifestyle and provides content for his YouTube show
The end of Scotland United
DeleteThe SNP are no longer the vehicle for independence so now the gloves are off
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not their own wrong facts.
ReplyDeleteHere, for example, we have WGD numpty yesindyref2 posting incorrect information about the Salmond persecution on WGD.
" He was FM and they were civil servants."
WRONG - they were not all civil servants.
" and it was a workplace. "
WRONG AGAIN - not all of the false allegations took place in a workplace.
If you don't know what you are talking about you should just stop posting rubbish.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51926614
DeleteFor instance: "Mr Salmond claimed he and Woman F lay side by side on a bed having what he described as a "sleepy cuddle" that had lasted a few seconds. He said he had given her a kiss on the cheek before they agreed it was a "bad idea" and she left."
As far as workplace is concerned, for the benefit of any ignoramus:
"Under UK law employers have a responsibility to take all reasonably practical measures to ensure the health, safety and wellbeing of staff in situations where the employee is acting in the course of employment. This responsibility covers situations where an employee is travelling for work, such as to business meetings, but does not apply to travel to or from work"
Such as a car - or bedroom
Anon at 1.28am but it disnae cover restaurants or in cars giving friends a lift to a train station after being at a restaurant. So what is the point of your post?
DeleteDelicious irony in Idiot For Scotlands post at 11.02.
DeleteI love Salmond I hate Sturgeon aka IFS isn't the sharpest knife at the Alamo.
Delete"where the employee is acting in the course of employment"
means
where the employee is acting in the course of employment"
Anon at 12.59pm - I dont love Salmond. Anyone who worships a politician is a fool in my opinion and you can find a bundle of them btl on WGD every day. I do hate injustice and crooked behaviour though and Sturgeon's gang have that in spades.
DeleteThe rest of your post makes no sense - that makes you the idiot anon.
If Yes2IndyRef2 was talking about the Andy Wightman’s tweets and the Wings blog he is correct
ReplyDeleteThe initial complaints were by civil
Servants and were in the workplace
They were sexual harassment and bullying.
This is not criminal and the complaints weren’t false one of them was admitted.
The others were investigated but the result was set aside because the process was unlawful and biased.
Wightman was reacting to a Wings tweet saying the accusations were False
One was definitely true and Wightman says the others were credible and he interviewed the women.
Anon at 12.28am - "if" - what is wrong with you checking it out for yourself on WGD - bit of a lazy character eh. His post had nothing to do with a WOS article or Andy Wightman.
DeleteSo you write a whole post full of inaccuracies based on a wrong initial assumption. You are a perfect example of what my original post at 12.14pm was referring to. Just more misinformation by an anon poster.
I will look at this article on WOS now you have raised it but your post commenting on my post is entirely wrong.
You expect me to read WGD no chance
DeleteMy post is not inaccurate.
The civil servants complaints of harassment were never dealt with.
The two original complainants were 'sleepy cuddle woman' and 'hand on bum at photoshoot' woman. Both complaints WERE included in the subsequent criminal trial. The trouble people have is that the original complainants A and B were allocated different letters in the criminal trial - F and K if memory serves.
DeleteMost people just read there allegations and they didn't make it to criminality. For most it doesn't mean nothing wrong happened.
DeleteThat smacks of Sturgeon's assessment that, just because he was cleared of criminal wrong doing, it doesn't mean the allegations weren't true. Well what's the point of holding trials before a jury then? Let's just allege whatever we want against someone we don't like and let the mud stick forever. That's a dangerous road to go down.
DeleteI don’t know what is so hard to understand
DeleteA boss can be guilty of sexual harassment and bullying. This is not criminal.
The criminal charges are different and require different behaviour and different standard of proof
The complaints were about Salmond’s bullying and sexually harassing behaviour.
Some of the complaints were admitted by Salmond.
For example if your boss talks to you about sex and says ‘if I was twenty years younger …’ then that would be harassment. It is not criminal
Actually that could be criminal
DeleteOutrageous levels of inaccuracy and double standards by posters.
DeleteThese SNP posters display incredible double standards and hypocrisy.
Let's take Yousaf who they elected to be their leader after he had an affair when married with a young staffer. How many of you Holy Willies thought nothing happened between them on office premises. No problem there for these Holy Willies - hypocrites. Not to mention rumours of another affair by Yousaf with another SNP person who then got rewarded with a SNP political position. Oh and the staffer who is now Yousaf's wife was rewarded with a political position as a councillor in Dundee.
No problem for them also regarding Grady and the SNP attempts by Blackford to cover up his sexual harassment of a younger staffer - double standards and hypocrites.
Oh and let's not forget Sturgeon's pal Cameron Downing who was the SNP Equalities officer who recently got sentenced to 6 years in jail plus three years of supervision after the 6 years for sexual offences. Not a word from the SNP Holy Willie hypocrites and this guy was actually convicted in court. This guy is representative of the type of people fostered and advanced by Sturgeon during her years in charge. But hey the Holy SNP Willies remain silent.
So many lies have been told by all the people involved in the scandal of Salmond's persecution and posters on blogs then repeat them. The alphabetties lied in the High Court and that included the two people Wightman says he believed.
Sturgeon kept papers hidden from judges and even their own lawyers. Swinney redacted and tried everything he could get away with to prevent the Inquiry seeing the truth. All these Scot gov officials continually lied during the Scot Parliament Inquiry. Sturgeon and her husband Murrell lied as well. Cole -Hamilton kept hidden during the Inquiry he was having a relationship and in close contact with one of the alphabetties throughout the Inquiry. So Cole - Hamilton and Wightman want to believe what these liars told him are true. Zero credibility.
But the greatest double standards of these SNP posters is how they normally say all the Britnat media are liars but remarkably the Daily Record ( Britnat Clegg close pal of Liz Lloyd) and the BBC etc etc are now telling the truth and nothing but the truth about the Salmond persecution.
Some people just cannae accept the truth. Sturgeon kick started this whole persecution back in 2017. Funny how her policy was only for former ministers but nothing for senior civil servants. Why If she cared about women being harassed was there no new policy for senior civil servants. Sturgeon targeted Salmond. There is a mountain of evidence.
I generally agree with you, IfS. But I also respect Andy Wightman, who I considered to be by far and away Scotland's best parliamentarian (before his expulsion from the Greens in an identity purge) because of his efforts in land reform.
DeleteHe's exactly the kind of person we need active and prominent in the Yes movement: he does the work, he goes to the sources, and he makes his arguments stand up based on well-researched facts. At least, he does all that for land rights. I give him the benefit of the doubt on this case, based on that.
Wightman actually says you have to prove the allegations made by people are false. Sounds like something out of 1984. Sorry Andy but you got that the wrong way round.
DeleteAnyway the two alphabetties Wightman says he believes were not believed in a court of law.
So does that mean that all these allegations about Sturgeon having a French lesbian lover are true unless they can be proved to be wrong. Oh and the wee extra bit about an iron being thrown by Sturgeon must be believed unless it can be proved false.
Wightman has lost the plot.
I'll add that I do indeed believe there was an orchestrated witch-hunt against Salmond, conducted via "the Vietnam group" with Nicola's blessing.
DeleteBut I also reckon the overall picture of the working environment in Bute House was worrying, and that Salmond did indeed have a reputation there. I don't think the women were lying in their evidence, but I do agree they were colluding in a plot to ruin him.
I have served as a juror and deliberated on a crime based on the Moorov Doctrine, myself. I've seen in great detail how this stuff is dealt with in court. Witnesses don't go into it lightly. And the jury is reminded very clearly by the judge that they are not ruling whether the witnesses were lying but whether the overall case itself was proved beyond a reasonable doubt. These are distinct. You can believe the witnesses and still vote for acquittal; indeed, you should, if you doubt any stage of the procedure at all.
Anon at 12.02pm - see my post at 12.03pm. Listen these two alphabetties are not credible. They had secret meetings with Scot gov officials before the new process was created in 2017. They embellished ( lied) their story for the criminal case.
DeleteOne of them was also secretly working with Cole - Hamilton during the Parliament Inquiry. Honesty and personal integrity was completely missing from these people. I also thought Wightman was better than this - beguiled by liars.
Anon at 12.11pm - not the " you can believe the witnesses and vote for aqquittal" stuff again. Yes that is true in general but in this case hard evidence and testimonies from witnesses did prove they were lying.
DeleteEven if some bits of what an alphabetty said did happen if they add on and embellish their account from previous accounts to try and get a conviction they are liars.
You say " I don't think they were lying" - well you are ignorant of the facts.
All right, I'll re-word it as: I don't think they were *completely* lying.
DeleteThere just wasn't enough evidence to secure conviction. Justice was done. But of course the real injustice is Salmond's destroyed reputation (most of the public consider him guilty) and the fact that Liz Lloyd and others still walk free. The plotters lost the court battle but won the war.
Anon at 12.31pm - I agree Sturgeon's gang achieved their main objective which was to sink any hope of the Scottish public voting for Salmond ( at present anyway).
DeleteAs long as these corrupt people are in charge of the SNP they will do nothing to achieve independence. To them it is all about keeping a lid on their unacceptable activities - hence Yousaf and then Swinney.
If you make statements to the polis and the High Court that include some truths but lies as well the statement is a lie and the person giving the statement is a liar. It's supposed to be the truth and nothing but the whole truth.
Most of these alphabetties were on the make and Sturgeon well rewarded some of them.
Anon@10:01 So you support mudslinging as a legitimate tactic against someone you dislike and to hell with proof. As I say, a dangerous road to go down. Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen to you at some point.
DeleteIfS is channeling his inner Trump.
DeleteI am not reading that wokist turd WGD - GTF
ReplyDeleteGrow up yah wee Wokist nyaff! The SNP is no longer an Indy Party.
ReplyDeleteDefine wokist? Most who spout it as an insult don’t actually understand the term. Right wing mindset appears to block out any rational thought.
Deletewoke is a term which covers the general strands of far left dogma called "identity politics", which covers - anti-racism, the holocaust, sexual liberation, feminism - and originates in the works of e.g. Judith Butler (queer theory), Foucault, and the collection of philosophers and social theorists known as "cultural marxists". Woke manifests psychologically as a form of neo-puritanism, with analogues of original sin, the elect, and the associated witch hunts; indoctrination of the youth is a feature, their collective behaviour being reminiscent of Mao's "red guards".
Deleteidentity politics is the leftwing of neoliberalism, it is not progressive as it eschews class, and thus is used to attack the majority, the worker and the native
DeleteIt's certainly a great way to repel people. Lab-designed, perhaps.
Delete'Cultural Marxists'. spot the anti-Semitic trope.
DeleteSo the Harris campaign will need to use Biden's age as a reason for dropping out, against Trump who is (checks) 78 years old, with Biden 81. Harris can't do that herself of course.
ReplyDeleteAnd she should promise to stand for only one term. Job done.
DeleteYou read it here first! :-)
Why? No reason too. If she wins she can stand for 2 terms. That’s the US constitution.
DeleteThere's only 3 months to go, she's behind in the polls, if it increases her chances of winning she should do it.
DeleteI've not heard anyone suggest she should promise to quit after 4 years, let alone seen any polling on it. Pretty wild suggestion, YI2. Still, nice to see you're consistent. ;-)
DeleteRe: Biden. I have a suspicious feeling they'll go with "Mayor Pete" Buttigieg for Kamala Harris's running mate. That way they can mount three high horses and blame the voters for being sexists, racists and homophobes for their defeat!
DeleteSomething that caught my eye at the weekend was the left wing of the Democrats were Biden's last remaining supporters. Very sus! What were Bernie and AOC up to, rooting for their rival? Was the idea to embrace the Maga tsunami and wash away their real enemies?
Campbell is a now-blatantly obvious pied piper & a plant who has been exceptionally effective. Lives in Bath, probably takes his orders from Cheltenham. This has been his purpose since day one.
ReplyDeleteSurely you should be embarrassed about defending pro Brit Campbell?
ReplyDeleteA reminder about the Fabiani farce that brought the Scottish government and the Scottish parliament in to disrepute.
ReplyDeleteThis Inquiry was supposed to be into the actions of Sturgeon, her government and her special advisers that resulted in the government wasting public funds and being told their decision report should never be seen again by anyone as it was unlawful, unfair and tainted by apparent bias.
1. All the Inquiry members were against Salmond - completely biased.
2. Swinney on behalf of Sturgeon tried to hide every document that he could get away with and redacted vast tracts of many of those he was eventually forced in to making available. The tactic being to delay and delay until it ran up against the Holyrood election in 2021. " Honest" John succeeded in this.
3. Most of those who appeared before the Inquiry lied and lied a lot.
4. Although the title of the Inquiry was to investigate Sturgeon's special advisers not one of them appeared before the Inquiry.
5. The biased members of the Inquiry refused to let Salmond's submission to the Inquiry be published unless he let Swinney redact it.
6. Not one participant who gave evidence before the Inquiry has been held accountable for lying under oath.
7. Cole - Hamilton has not been held to account for not disclosing his realationship with one of the alphabetties during the Inquiry.
7. Fabiani goes off to retire with this stain of a farce as to how she will be remembered. Like so many SNP politicians she could have been remembered for gaining Scotland's freedom but she chose this road instead.
So many people so little honesty and personal integrity.
You're wasting your time with this lot, IFS. There's none so blind as them as wot won't listen😁.
DeleteIfS seems to only be interested in vengeance and vendetta, rather than, what's that word again? Independence, INDEPendence, INDEPENDENCE.
DeleteIfS should rename him or herself "Vendetta against Scotland".
Any questions?
"You're wasting your time with this lot, IFS"
DeleteWell, yeah. Very few people share IFS's obsession with Salmond, Sturgeon, betties or old inquiries. Life is too short, there's too much injustice in the world, and it has nothing to do with Independence.
why oh why if only vindictive old alex had left well alone and walked calmly to his cell in Shotts, that wee lassie Nikki could have hud us independence by now, so she could have
Delete- campervans and dilators all round!
Is that right yesindyref2? Why then were you prattling on about it on WGD just the other day and as often is the case getting it so so wrong. See my post above at 12.14am and more from yesindyref2 on WGD on the same subject. Going back to your WGD numpty roots. You like all the numpties just cannae accept that you were so wrong about Sturgeon. You don't even have a clue about who the alphabetties are do you.
DeleteYesindyref2 mentions obsessions but didnae mention his obsession with weapons of destruction.
In your world an obsession with destroyers, battleships, tanks aircraft carriers etc etc - you know things that kill people - is better than an obsession about injustice and freedom for Scotland. You can keep your obsession it is morally repugnant just like Sturgeon and her gang.
I'd like us all to put aside the division, too, YI2 but that division is largely about the trial and criminal conspiracy to send Scottish independence's prime mover to jail and destroy his reputation. They failed at the first but excelled at the latter. That's why Alba has no support and why there is no viable alternative party of independence to the SNP itself.
DeleteI see someone commenting on Wings to say Salmond should move to Switzerland and write his memoir, with all the names and events laid out in the open. Maybe. Certainly, there is no catharsis or healing in the movement as things are now. Something has to change in a big way to put this all behind us. Perhaps that's certain other people up in the dock, instead?
Well.as an SNP member I'd be quite happy if we got rid of Sturgeon ( get her not to stand in 2026) and Swinney ( as FM) and any others involved in the vendetta against ( not criminal but not entirely whiter than white either) Salmond.
DeleteThen could we unite and move on?
@5:02. A Nicola-free SNP? I'll believe that when I see it.
Delete"I'd like us all to put aside the division, too, YI2 but that division is largely about the trial and criminal conspiracy to send Scottish independence's prime mover to jail and destroy his reputation."
DeleteBut that "division" involves a few hundred people tops. Whereas roughly 2 million support Independence, if there was any way to get it. Salmond resigned as Leader of the SNP and as FM - he's now the leader of Alba which gets about 1.5% vote.
Even the "SNP v Alba and vice versa feud" is only a few hundred, with the likes of IFS and Dr Jim being just two sides of the same obsessed coin.
Normal people really just don't care - it's old news. People want to keep a roof over the head, food on the table, clothes on the back, raise kids.
If and when Salmond brings his court case, that will be a bit different. I won't give to any crowdfund now, though I was one of the first 100 to give a small donation to the crowdfund for his case way back against the Scottish Government for their incredibly clearly messed up internal investigation (I posted that on the National article about it). And the SG wasted a million of good money refusing to face the truth and the music until forced to.
Independence is what it should be all about.
Independence is exactly what it should be all about.
DeleteSo why isn't it? Because of the Devolutionist leadership of the SNP. Why are they leading the party? Because their ringleader, Nicola, heaved out the independence focussed old guard of the party. We saw the result when she quit and her dodgy hubby ran the ensuing leadership contest: one independence supporter (who wasn't very skilled) versus two devolutionists (the one closer to Nicola won).
The SNP is the vehicle of independence. It's currently blocked up and dysfunctional. The voters saw that and rejected it, me included.
How do we fix it? Replace the devolutionist leadership with people committed to independence. How do we do that? Well, that NEC is still awfy rigged against the membership, so it looks like something has to force the Devolutionists out, besides.
All of this would have been so much cleaner and easier without that wretched trial! It's more than just anonymous blog commenters, you see? It's the leadership of Scotland's only viable pro-independence party and the government at Holyrood.
Nicola’s gone. Stop the fixation.
Delete5:02 I think you'll find Oor Nicla won't stand in 2026. She's hardly ever in Holyrood these days anyway. Got her million quid memoirs to write. Why a publisher thinks page after page of 'I can't recall' and 'It wisnae me' are worth a million, I don't know but the bargain bins at WH Smith will soon be full.
DeleteThe WGD numpty yesindyref2 says "normal people really just don't care" - well they didnae care about the dodgy blood scandal, the Hillsborough scandal, the Post Office Scandal and many more injustices but then complain about living in a shitty country. Maybe they should care. You yesindyref2 are a look the other way type of person. A not interested in injustice unless it affects you type of person. Well it does affect you ya numpty if you want independence. That's what it has always been about.
DeleteHas anyone seen IFS and Jimbo in a room at the same time?
DeleteWGD numpty yesindyref2 cannae even get his trolling correct.
DeleteHe says : " Even the SNP Alba feud and vice versa is only a few hundred. With the likes of IFS and Dr Jim being just two sides of the same obsessed coin. " I ain't an Alba member ya numpty and I do not love Salmond like Dr Jim does with Sturgeon. So once again you post pish.
So just how do you know there is a few hundred. Did you use the same forecasting skills that told you Sturgeon would deliver Indyref2.
WGD numpty yesindyref2 at 3.39pm asks " Any Questions"
DeleteYes my question is were you always a dick or did you grow in to the role?
Has anyone seen IFS and Barrhead Boy in the same room at the same time?
Deleteyesindy ya numpty, IFS isn't an Alba member, she's a Tory.
DeleteSame question to anon trolls at 11.00pm and 11.01pm.
DeleteIdiot for Scotland. Time for you to give it a rest. People are now openly taking the piss out of you. Pathetic sad wee troll. Have some respect for yourself. No one else does.
DeleteHere's a helpful what-if scenario to put the trial in context.
ReplyDeleteWhat if it simply never happened?
Salmond would still have resigned after losing Indyref. Nicola would still replace him as FM. Leave would still win the referendum, while Scots voted 2:1 Remain. I dare say Blackford would still be struggling to his feet to declare that Scotland Won't Be Dragged…
But Salmond would have his reputation—and his power as a public speaker—intact. He could stand up and kick a fuss about using Brexit for our advantage. He could have become quite the rebel leader in the SNP.
Would Nicola have purged him without the allegations in the trial? Could she have turned the SNP against Salmond without that conspiracy? I strongly doubt it. Yessers loved Salmond. It took a massive smear to turn them against him.
The ruthless trial by media very snuffed out Salmond as a credible figure in Scottish politics. If that had never happened, he would still be a viable leader today. Not just of a minor breakaway group, but of the SNP itself.
Now who gained from all that, eh? Certainly not us Yessers! We would be in such a better place.
It would have been easy to fail Salmond at vetting. They did that to various others
DeleteSome people should read this:
ReplyDeletehttps://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2024/07/the-blackout-on-reporting-of-david.html
Can we move on please from the "obsession" about 2 rich people?
No, we can't, until they relinquish control of Scotland.
Deletehttps://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2024/07/former-independence-supporter-stuart.html?showComment=1721665378040#c2419213549260640252
The "trial" really isn't the talk of the steamie!
DeleteYes to the SNP reforming from member to branch upwards, and getting back on track with Number 2 on their Constitution which is:
"Aims
2. The aims of the Party shall be:
(a) Independence for Scotland; that is the restoration of Scottish national sovereignty by restoration of full powers to the Scottish Parliament, so that its authority is limited only by the sovereign power of the Scottish People to bind it with a written constitution and by such agreements as it may freely enter into with other nations or states or international organisations for the purpose of furthering international cooperation, world peace and the protection of the environment.
(b) the furtherance of all Scottish interests."
Unless they changed that to
"Aims
2. The aims of the Party shall be: "Progressive blah blah virtue-signalling vomit".
A Nicola- free ( or at least sidelined) SNP is what we want and what we need . How can we move on otherwise ?
ReplyDeleteINDEPENDENCE is what we need to talk about. The rest is history .
Indeed! We need to create the vision and to inspire people that there's a better way than forever being the "red haired stepchild" in someone else's household. We need to focus on indy and get cracking. It won't just fall into our laps.
DeleteSo, how about it, SNP? A new leader, new direction, new focus and a new start to winning Independence!
You'll even win a few elections this way, too. What's there to be afraid of?
Nicola Nicola Nicola Nicola………. We must move on say the underminers, Nicola, ,….. sad little men..
DeleteThat's offensively sexist
DeleteEverybody against independence still terrified of Nicola especially the Salmondites waiting for her book to come out they'll be no hiding place for Salmond then
DeleteI think Sturgeon should be a little more worried about the upcoming court case than anyone giving a shit about her book.
DeleteDr Jim at 8.45pm - aye all the children in Scotland are terrified she and her husband will come and steal their pocket money.
DeleteGet rid of Nicola say those not in the snp and seem to be 2 years behind in understanding politics. Such bile from such a small band.
DeleteThe SNP lost 39 seats at the GE and the nationalist share of the vote was below 35%, yet incredibly there are still some people going on about independence!
ReplyDeleteYou really couldn’t make it up.
Ya can if you drinking mushroom tea.
DeleteMmm. Mushroom tea. Scrummy yummy.
DeletePeople should rejoin the SNP and then try to change from within
ReplyDeleteIt was hopeless while Sturgeon was in charge and riding high but now it’s different
There will probably moves from within the SNP to change the party
So Rejoin.
Get a position in your branch and support those that will prioritise independence
There will be an internal battle
There should be an internal battle, but if only 5% of members turn up at meetings, the placeholders can do what they want. It needs at least double the members to turn up, force votes, get changes.
DeleteI was a member from Sep 2014 for 3 years, thought I'd got Independence on the agenda but the item was just skipped completely. I gave up and hoped other branches would be better. Apparently not. And you don't even know who the other members are - data protection doncha know. And no access to email list - even a blind access to send a message or survey.
It was a load of [redacted]
Everybody knows you're a fake, indyref2 you say different things on different blogs
DeleteAnon @7.23pm We have things in place to prevent your type having an effect now that we've got rid of you Labour people that can't be trusted
DeleteNicola warned us about Labour in 2015 when you all rushed to join the SNP, she was right then and right about Salmond and his dirty deal
Anon at 8:36 PM
DeleteYou forgot the word "underminer". GET IT RIGHT DR JIM.
Leave the weed alone.
DeleteThat argument might hold water if the arch unionist who worked at a Labour supporting tabloid for 23 years and even worse was the architect of 'The Vow' that lost us the 2014 referendum wasn't the current CEO of the SNP...
Delete🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Dr Jim at 8.41pm says the SNP have got rid of all the Labour types. Senility kicking home now Jimbo - remember Murray Foote is the SNP Chief Exec and Ex Daily Redcoat Editor.
DeleteNot for much longer.
DeleteCubby's losing the plot
DeleteI was at the Perth Alba meeting
ReplyDeleteSalmond said Scotland United is over.
He’s siding with Wings.
The SNP are no longer the independence party and Alba will replace them
He's no longer a force in his own house let alone politics.
DeleteHe couldn't even cover a table with a precious French cloth. He's crazy.
Delete"He’s siding with Wings."
DeleteIf he said that, what words did he use?
"Mr Campbell has unimpeachable integrity."
DeleteLOL. So did Rolf Harris.
DeleteSwinneys bought drones from the Houthis.
ReplyDelete- phase 2 begins. Soon. Just believe.
Sturgeon and the Alphabet Queers and Quizzers in the SNP killed Indy off already.
ReplyDeleteHomophobia
DeleteMcReform UK.
DeleteWell at least there's one threat Alba isn't facing: Debt and potential bankruptcy.
ReplyDeleteWith all those lost deposits ?
DeleteHey Dr Jim at 8.33pm you ain't giving enough money to the SNP. Murrell wants a new car.
ReplyDeleteTalking to yourself again?
DeleteAnon at 11.17pm - your post reminds me of the duck troll who used to quack. Both of you think you are smart and funny but sadly you ain't.
DeleteHe's going for Andy Wightman's jugular.
ReplyDeletethe SNP is little more than a trans rights lobby and weimar berlin sex club.
ReplyDeleteWhat’s it like being in the gutter? You right wing guys fair like the old goose step. Trash.
ReplyDeleteRight wing = right most of the time!
DeleteWhat did Alba decide at Perth?
ReplyDeleteJohn Swinney has the experience and the steady hand needed at this time. Let things settle soon fa a bit.
ReplyDelete