Ten years ago in the approach to the indyref, Scotland famously did not have a single pro-independence daily newspaper, but now it has precisely one. Plenty of indy supporters criticise The National for plenty of different reasons, but whatever you think of it, surely it's obvious that it's in all our interests that the paper does not fail or fold. That's why the negative reaction to Owen Jones' appointment as a regular columnist seems misguided in the extreme to me - he's one of the star commentators of the British press, and hiring him can only boost the paper's credibility and hopefully its readership too.
I have plenty of problems with him as an individual, mostly due to his intolerance towards anyone who disagrees with him on the trans issue. But in many ways he's a good fit for a pro-indy paper at the moment because he seems to have genuine admiration for the way Humza Yousaf has spoken up about Gaza, and he is also scathing about Keir Starmer - which he made the subject of his first regular column. He pointed out that even in comparison with the centre-right Tony Blair, there is no inspirational progressive vision on offer from Starmer. We could mention devolution at this point, which was an obvious incentive for Scots to vote for Blair in 1997, but the reality is that Starmer will probably further undermine devolution, not build on it.
What seems to be about to happen is Scotland's equivalent of the Quebec portion of the Canadian federal election in 2011, when the pro-independence Bloc Québécois finally lost majority status after six consecutive election wins. But for that to happen required a so-called 'French Kiss' from the New Democratic leader Jack Layton, who offered substantial constitutional and language concessions to the sovereigntist support base. By contrast, Scotland seems to be selling itself to Labour in return for nothing but a Glasgow Kiss, and that's the real tragedy.
Moderation policy: I've decided to experiment with switching pre-moderation off in the comments section of this blog to encourage more free-flowing debate. The quid pro quo, though, is that I henceforth reserve the right to delete (or possibly edit) any comment for absolutely any reason I see fit, and without explanation, so please only comment if you understand and accept that. Part of the reason I had to switch pre-moderation on in the first place was the sheer exhaustion of endlessly having to deal with people demanding explanations for their comments being deleted - so please note that any comments criticising or querying moderation decisions will generally be deleted without reply (and that applies no matter how many times you indignantly re-post them!).
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I am currently fundraising in the hope of running a new Scot Goes Pop opinion poll in the near future - details can be found HERE, and the fundraiser page itself is HERE.
Jones is a very good commentator and has a high opinion of Humza. A good hire.
ReplyDeleteIf some of the comments I read on this site last night from people who claim to want independence but won't vote for the one party that is capable of delivering it, then your answer is 'yes'. When I made my point about what happened post 79 when the Scottish electorate reverted to voting Labour I got the response from one poster that surely the SNP wouldn't fall back that far. The bottom line on that is that if he/she decides to abstain, vote Labour or Alba (and don't kid yourself that a vote for Alba at the GE is going to assist anyone other than Labour) then we won't be long in finding out. We will, however, have many years to regret it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 9:26, totally agree. I don’t understand why any independence supporter in their right mind would abstain at the GE.
DeletePlus of course, voting Alba splits the nationalist vote, thereby benefiting the unionist parties (in most cases Labour you’d have to imagine). There appears to be a lot of people not grasping this and the consequences.
Oh for goodness sake! How can Alba damage the indy vote when people like you keep telling us nobody wants to vote for them? Leave people alone to make up their own minds instead of patronising them with talk of not grasping the consequences.
DeleteAre you seriously saying that splitting the nationalist vote at the GE won’t do damage? It can only hand seats to Labour!
DeleteAgain, please explain how this party which we're constantly
Deletetold has virtually no support is a danger to the SNP. And, while you're at it, please explain how voting SNP in a Westminster election is going to prevent a unionist government from taking office in London. You talk about people not grasping the consequences, it looks to me as if you're a drowning man grasping at straws if you think the SNP will throw you a lifeline.
My comments aren’t too hard to understand surely! Common sense I’d say.
DeleteNonsense I'd say. Certainly no answers to my questions I notice.
DeleteFelix - the numpties NEVER address the issues. They just want to bully and blackmail people into voting SNP who are not going to do anything about independence as long as Sturgeon's gang is in charge. I mean Murray Foote in charge of a party claiming to be for independence - now that is truly embarrassing. Since 2015 the SNP have had a majority of Scotland's MP's. What have they done - nothing but get fat, drunk and one of them, at least, carry out a sexual assault - Grady - which Blowhard Blackford tried to cover up - he even failed at that. At least the numpty Marshall Adair won't be upset by this post as he says he will scroll on by. Ok Marshall, keep taking the happy pills.
DeleteYes i read Marshall's comment. Praise for James' decision to open up the comments section for wider debate, followed by a complaint that somebody is selfishly debating with his critics!!! Is numptiness infectious do you think?😂
DeleteI will abstain because I have too much pride to vote for the party that has ruthlessly abused my good wishes since 2014.
DeleteThe SNP needs shocked straight out of the coma of complacency they’re in.
The so called 'Independence for Scotland' poster on here quite clearly is a unionist plant. Annyone who understands psephology - not least James Kelly - will tell you that small percentages of abstention or votes for Alba from former SNP supporters can end up making significant differences in an election when the opponents of Scottish independence will be voting tactically against it in numbers. Tories will give little thought to 'purity' when voting for a Labour candidate against the SNP and neither will Labour supporters when they vote for a tory to do the same thing. As I said on the very first post of this thread, if you abstain or vote Alba you will have very many years to regret it.
DeleteI won't regret it.
DeleteI regret the SNP's transition from the party of independence into the party of cosy political jobs for life. They're lapdog unionists.
Worse still: they're squatting at our expense. We need rid of the current lot of them.
You won't regret it because you are a unionist.
DeleteAnonymous at 11.29am - You little weed you. You are a classic SNP own independence diddy who cannae see that the SNP have been taken over by Britnats. I mean how hard is it to have a de facto referendum - not hard at all if you really want independence.
DeleteYou meet the test of Einstein's definition of insanity - keep doing the same thing and expect a different result - keep voting SNP and get shit all on independence.
Stop dismissing people who disagree with you as 'claiming to want independence'. This is little better than the lazy assumption so beloved of SNP diehards that we're all crypto-unionists. Some of us have just had it with the lies and delaying tactics which were the hallmark of the Sturgeon era.
ReplyDeleteThe best thing for the indy movement may well be a diminished SNP, cleared of all the careerists and wokists who have led the party astray these last few years. My vote is my vote, it's not up for you or the SNP to blackmail me for it with dire threats of a unionist government in Westminster which we'll get no matter who we vote for.
It is only by voting SNP that independence can be brought to Scotland.
DeleteYou are seriously deluded. Have you learned nothing from the past decade? The SNP has no intention of delivering independence, only of fattening their waistlines and pensions at the Westminster trough ad infinitum. Real belief in independence left the building with Alex Salmond and Sturgeon made sure it won't raise its ugly, inconvenient head again by destroying the man's reputation.
DeleteAnonymous at 10:00PM- Of course you’re right, only the SNP can take us to independence, though I do accept they need to get their act together.
DeleteThe only caveat I’d add is if Alba were, through time, to replace the SNP and become a real force, though I have to say at this stage that looks unlikely, it is still early days though.
As I said yesterday, and make no apologies for repeating, all Alba will do at the GE is split the nationalist vote in the seats they contest, thereby potentially handing seats to unionist parties at the expense of the SNP. Sadly a lot of people don’t seem to be getting this.
I remain confident independence will be achieved, however we have to be in it for the long haul and stay positive, unlike some on here who appear to have thrown in the towel.
" all Alba will do at the GE is split the nationalist vote in the seats they contest, thereby potentially handing seats to unionist parties at the expense of the SNP"
DeleteThat may be so, but at the same time it simply rewards the current mediocrity (if it's as much as that) within the SNP. It's time end the Mexican standoff; to make an omelette, so we need to break some eggs.
It's going nowhere from the current status quo
"It's going nowhere from the current status quo"
DeleteAbsolutely. We already know *exactly* what more of the same looks like. It looks like NO PLAN, NO PROGRESS, and NO EFFORT. Just bloviating from over-fed simpletons who have the gall to take *us* for the fools.
Unlike the HoC dinner of the day, Independence won't just spoon itself onto their plate.
As James has said in the past voting Alba splits the vote in a FPTP election. On the other hand it makes more sense to vote Alba in Scottish and Local government elections.
DeleteJames, it is Sturgeon's gang who need the political equivalent of a " Glasgow Kiss". I can only hope Salmond's court case does the business or the future may be a statue of Sturgeon in Edinburgh to go with the statue of that other Britnat Donald Dewer in Buchanan st, Glasgow. Just as well Marshall Adair won't read this - it might upset him a tad.
ReplyDeleteNever forget British is a phoney identity made up to facilitate Westminster control in the British Empire. There is no British culture. There is no British language. There is just England and English. Next time someone tells you they are British ask them to tell you something about British culture in the British language.
ReplyDeleteIf there is such a thing as the British language, it's Welsh (or Cornish).
DeleteDon't forget Breton!
DeleteIsn't that down to Citizenship vs Nationality? My passport says British Citizen, but a lot of us (incorrectly) refer to being British Nationals. Not helped by referring to such things as "National Interest", etc when we really mean "State".
DeleteSo if corrected would place us in a similar position to the (ex) Soviet Union, where they prominently differentiated between the two. Possibly the Roman Empire provides a better example, where many folks in the Empire from disparate countries could become Roman Citizens?
Aren't you actually a British Subject?
DeleteCitizens are sovereign, which requires a Republic.
No, that changed in 1948 when Subjects became "Citizens of the UK and Colonies", that was then later split at the end of the Empire, so we became British Citizens.
Deletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_British_nationality_law?useskin=monobook
That is regarding the term used.
As to your latter point, pre-Union, were Scots ever Subjects, despite Scotland being a (legally limited) Monarchy. The popular Scottish sovereignty existed despite Scotland not being a Republic.
James, whenever I have asked this question of friends/family who declare they are British and proud. I usually get a blank stare then nothing or they speak English about Shakespeare, Churchill, the Queen, Sir Walter Raleigh, thousand years of history all that stuff. Can't say anyone has started speaking Welsh or Cornish. Perhaps if I went to Wales or Cornwall and asked the question.
DeleteEnglish is the most successful language of colonialism. Spanish was quite successful as well.
Some people who commenton nationalist blogs look very scared of democracy and are incapable of learningfrom reality. The unionist paty's votes are split at least three ways, and they won. All three of them amost always get a lot more than 2% of votes. Independence isn't about the SNP: It's about how popular independence is. If you don't believe that, I think you have been sucessfully brainwashed by a political party, and/or repetitive blogs.
ReplyDeleteMy point is about the upcoming GE, and the same will apply to the Holyrood election in a couple of years time. A split nationalist vote can only benefit the unionist parties in these elections.
DeleteYou appear to be referring to a referendum situation.
I don’t get why my point is so difficult to understand.
"The unionist paty's votes are split at least three ways, and they won."
DeleteAnd they won? When was that, 1995?
I assume he's referring to Westminster elections. That's certainly my point with Tam - you get a unionist government in Westminster regardless of who you vote for. Remember we had 56 of 59 MPs under Sturgeon and it didn't bring us any nearer independence or even a referendum.
DeleteExactly. 2015's landslide won us what: being torn out of the EU against our will? Feel the power!
DeleteThe only sensible option for achieving independence is for all prospective MP’s and parties to put country before party and come to an arrangement whereby each constituency has a single independence candidate.
ReplyDeleteAll problems discussed above about splitting the vote are thereby solved.
Yes, I know that due to the intransigence of the SNP, a party I’ve voted for for nearly 50 years, this is extremely unlikely to happen even though this would suit all sitting MP’s of SNP, Alba and no party at present. Crazy!
But, just imagine such a coalition galvanising the disaffected, disenchanted and just plain scunnered voter.
Imagine the slogan: Country before Party. We’re standing All Under One Banner.or even Scotland United.
The SNP has a long way to fall before their ego would let them do anything as sensible as that.
DeletePerhaps the coming election will give them just that.
LinargyG - a spot on post. Country before party is what is needed but Sturgeon's gang will never go for that so the only solution is for SNP members to clear them all out. Scotland United or even dare I say Independence For Scotland. I would vote for that even if it meant my horrible MP Kirsten Oswald getting back in again. The SNP brand is tarnished. Sadly Sturgeon's gang will not agree to anything like this - one reason being Salmond has already suggested it. So we are stuck in this mess created by Sturgeon and she walks away to go and take driving lessons. Nicophants on WGD actually boast that she passed her driving test. Who knew when voting SNP for the last 9 years that was what we would get instead of independence.
DeleteWonder if she's put one of those cute wee Saltire stickers over the Butcher's Apron on her licence? I did. After these last few years it's already looking about as manky as the party.
DeleteIFS- Good to see you’re your usual cheery optimistic self again today.
DeleteTT: What are you upbeat about, then? The prospect of years more stasis and impotence ahead?
DeleteTartanTam - you really are coming across as a real thick plank of wood. This nonsense you keep repeating that I don't get it about a split vote is insulting - a primary school pupil would understand the point. What you fail to understand is I don't care about a split vote. The SNP is a Britnat party under Sturgeon's gang.
DeleteTell me what have the SNP ever done in Westminster - I know you won't answer because you are a numpty. I know my MP Oswald - part of Sturgeon's gang - has just got bigger and bigger during her time there.
Anyone want to read about SNP achievements in Westminster have a read of Barrhead boy's blog. Sorry James I know you don't get on with him.
LinargyG this is exactly what's needed but there's no chance of it while the SNP continues with its intransigence. They only want to work with the loopy Greens, not for reasons of independence which the Greens are lukewarmabout, but to continue their lemming like dash over the cliffs of wokeness.
DeleteAnonymous at 12:20pm- I never said I was particularly upbeat, I’m just fed up of this endless negativity.
DeleteIFS- you keep insulting me and others, dismissing us as numpties.
Maybe you’re the biggest numpty of all.
TT: I don't consider myself despondent about Scotland's future, either, but I have come to the very end of my patience with the SNP. They need a fundamental shakeup. They need a revolution in the party. They need to kick their addiction to the London lifestyle and wake back up to Scotland.
DeleteTartanTam at 12.50pm - just as Jack Grealish is consistently recorded as the most fouled player in the English Premier league I have been consistently insulted more than anyone over many years on this blog. Funnily enough all I have said has turned out to be true but numpties haven't the decency to say I was correct they just cry Unionist. I cry fools back and you are clearly in that category. If you don't like being called a numpty then my advice is stop posting like an SNP fool and take your head out the sand.
DeleteNah, keep it up, TartanTam. I reckon you're almost there. It took a lot of "but we can't let the Brits in!" for me to see where we are now, too.
DeleteTam, I'd rather be called a numpty than a closet unionist which IFS is on a regular basis (you only need to check this page to see that). As I've said above, throwing around accusations of being a unionist plant is a cheap way of dismissing those with genuine concerns about the SNP's direction of travel rather than question why so many indy supporters have become disillusioned.
DeleteAs for IFS, I enjoy his reports from Numpty Central - they're humorous and save me from having to endure their adoration of the Blessed Nicola and the latest ravings of Scottish Skier, a man who regularly flooded this site with a tsunami of drivel, much of it about toilet facilities in the Borders😁. If being called a numpty is too much for you, perhaps James' more liberal approach to moderation isn't for you.
IFS- well you abstain or whatever you’re going to do at the GE! Sounds like a lot more are going to do likewise. Between abstentions, a split nationalist vote and considerable tactical voting amongst unionists, it’s certainly not going to end well is it?
DeleteWhere do we go then? This time next year when there are only a handful of nationalist MPs in Westminster.
I expect numpties like you will then do the same at the Holyrood election, abstain, split the unionist vote.
Little wonder fools like you get accused of being a unionist!
Meant split the nationalist vote of course.
DeleteThis post from arch Nicophant (on Numpty Central as Felix puts it) Dr Jim suggests even he is getting cheesed off about the SNP MP troughers in London.
Delete" Probably the Sir Harry Lauder and longest serving SNP MP Tory pet entertainer Pete Wishart, who forgot over the years that making the Tories laugh isn't what he 's there for.
He was supposed to blow the bloody doors off. "
For once I couldn't agree more with nasty Numpty Dr Jim. Pension Pete is an embarrassing clown in Westminster. Wishart thinks he is a stand up comic who does his act every so often then retires for a long lunch/dinner on expenses. I think it's about 25 years he has been getting away with this. No great loss to Runrig.
TartanTam at 2.42pm - if you actually read this blog (in even the recent past ) you will have seen me clearly post my voting intentions.
DeleteHey TartanTam - you seem to like using the term nationalist. In my experience it is Britnats who use this term. Are you a Unionist?
DeleteHa ha Tam only joking - see how cheap and easy it is to fling about this accusation. On the other hand you have provided plenty of evidence that you are an SNP numpty. For all I know you may even be Pension Pete desperate to stay on the Westminster gravy train for another 5 years.
It's not just that voting SNP in a UK GE will deliver troughing MPs who just love Westminster's bar/restaurants that will do nothing towards gaining independence. People like that horrible woman Somerville will claim we are voting for her GRR stuff.
ReplyDeleteNow if it was a Scotland United vote for a mandate for independence and nothing else with a clear statement that they would withdraw from Westminster and declare the union over then that would be different. But nae chance it's not just the individual MPs that live off Westminster's money it's the actual party as well. Money from Westminster is the SNP's main source of income.
Indeed. One upside to losing a bunch of seats will be the SNP's Short Money will become Very Short Money.
DeleteHe who pays the piper calls the tune. Remember who you are, Scottish nationalists!
What is people's general problem with OJ's appointment? Most of the oppositional comments on Twitter are just spasms about how terrible it is without saying why
ReplyDeleteI've nothing against the National picking him up as an opinion writer, myself. But the editor's announcement was tellingly defensive. Two direct quotes:
DeleteComplaint 1: "Owen Jones is a Unionist"
Complaint 2: "Owen Jones is a London journalist"
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/24031617.owen-jones-will-write-national-twice-month/
So the National clearly knew what they were in for.
If you look at polls saying the percentage of Scottish people wanting Scottish independence just keep on growing no matter what the Britnat media and politicians do or say Westminster will have been asking itself " how can Scottish independence best be prevented. " MI5 will answer that question by saying "take control of the political party representing the movement". These British security agencies have developed a large bag of tools to do this over centuries.
ReplyDeleteI honestly wonder if they are already very effectively embedded in Alba, too. Recent events and all.
DeleteAnonymous at 2.35pm - well these barstewards in London have a massive budget of Billions (and endless supply of people willing to take the money ) that they have to spend somewhere and the list of colonies is getting smaller every decade. Of course the worst thing is the money from Scotland's resources helps fund them.
DeleteAnyone who thinks the independence cause will be advanced by the SNP losing a pile of seats at the GE is deranged. Pity that such fantasists may cause the rest of us to suffer for such stupidity. Please grasp that every single Labour Tory or Lib Dem who replaces an SNP MP is utterly opposed to independence and will trumpet their victories as the end of the independence cause. Fortunately that will not be true, BUT it will be a major setback!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 2:51- well said indeed. Good luck with getting that message through to IFS and his followers though.
DeleteIt is a "setback" I am fully willing to embrace.
DeleteThe SNP must transform to get us any closer to independence. It won't do that until it's been thrown into true crisis: the kind that comes directly from your voters telling you that you've failed them.
It is the SNP, under its current clique, that is impotent.
DeleteArguing that we the voters are impotent, too, is untrue. Those who we elected to get us out of the union, time and time again, need to change their attitude or be thrown out of office and its lifestyle.
We have power to force change.
Anonymous at 2.51pm says " deranged " - you meet Einstein's definition of insanity of doing the same thing time after time and expecting a different result. Please check in to your nearest hospital.
DeleteTartanTam - I do not have followers. I am an independence supporter with an independent mind who owes no loyalty or favour to any political party or group. Quite frankly I am getting pissed off with you misrepresenting me. Also if you are so upset at getting called a numpty you must have led a very sheltered life but on the other hand you are happy to applaud the anonymous above calling people deranged.
I've had a good old laugh recently at the WGD numpties. SNP MP M. Black makes the type of comment posters have made here - namely that SNP MPs are too comfortable at Westminster. SNP MP J Cherry criticises Black over the comment. The WGD numpties support Black and criticise Cherry ( because they just hate Cherry you know).
ReplyDeleteIn summary, that means they support the view held by myself and many other posters on SGP but the numpties have called us unionists for saying this. Talk about the WGD numpties tying themselves in knots. Does that mean the WGD numpties and Black are unionists as well? Once again another example of the many I have found that prove the WGD numpties are indeed numpties.
I agree with Mr Kelly, Starmer is not even making promises about more devolution Powers, why would the people vote for him?
ReplyDeleteAs our host also says: beware the immense lure of the promise that a vote for Labour today means the end of Tory rule tomorrow. There is no doubt right now that the Tories are hated more than anyone else is liked.
DeleteI won't vote Labour. But I trust the polls that say many will.
I haven't seen anyone on here advocate voting Labour or Tory. What you get is people who say they will vote Alba/ISP, abstain or spoil their ballot. Apparently anyone who states such intention is either a 'deranged' unionist or too stupid to grasp Tam's powerful argument that a vote for SNP will prevent a unionist government in Westminster next year!!! 🤔 🤔🤔?
DeleteMy own final word on this to those on here who purport to support Scottish independence but state that they intend to either abstain or not vote for the SNP is read the letter from Andy Anderson in today's edition of The National. Andy Anderson is a founding member of Alba and his letter is a warning about splitting the independence vote. Andy, like me, has been active in the independence movement for very many years and although he at times is no fan of some SNP politicians, he realises the dangers to the independence movement that fragmentation of the independence vote will cause.
DeleteI just read it. It’s an argument against the Greens and Alba running any candidates at all, not a plea to us voters.
DeleteIf forced to vote for a “nationalist” (who will do nothing to end their Westminster career) or a unionist, I choose neither. That’s my democratic right. Deal with it.
Anonymous at 5:16pm- Exactly the point I’ve been making on here the last two days, but been shot down by people who claim to know better.
DeleteAnonymous at 5.16pm - you lost me when you said " purport to support Scottish independence" - you know what you can do with your purport. Anonymous in my opinion you "purport to support independence " by supporting the SNP that has done nothing in the last decade to get independence despite the most successful ever election results for the SNP over this period with Westminster in total disarray. A complete open goal. At best the SNP is a failure at worst it is a Britnat party. I know what I think you can purport all you want.
DeleteAnonymous at 5.16pm - how do we know it will be last your word on the matter - you post as anonymous. I got the same shite from people like you prior to the 2021 Holyrood election on this blog. We got both votes SNP then a coalition with the bampot Greens introducing policies hardly anybody voted for but ZERO on independence. More Sturgeon lies. This time around Yousaf ain't even bothering to make false promises about independence. We ain't all fools. Cue TartanTam.
DeleteTartanTam you claim to be "shot down " but amazingly you keep coming back for more. What happened to your comment " I'll leave it at that ". I will give you credit for not posting as an anonymous though.
IFS- I take it you think Andy Anderson’s a numpty too then?
DeleteAgain with the 'purport' to support independence! Absolutely no attempt to understand why people may have turned against the SNP. Just more of the same blinkered refusal to countenance any opinion that doesn't toe the party line. This is exactly the attitude that is going to lead the SNP to disaster at the next election and no doubt you'll be back on here blaming it all on Alex Salmond.
Delete'Independence for Scotland' - I have repeatedly said that I think you are a unionist plant. As Tartan Tam has said, you obviously even disagree with the opinion of one of Alba's founding members. That says it all.
DeleteTam, it would be a pity if you and the various anonymouses (anonymi?😁) left in a huff, can't your argument stand up to scrutiny? James has opened up the comments to let a range of voices be heard - you won't get that diversity on WOS or WGD - and all he asks is that we don't be abusive. I hardly think being called 'numpty' falls into the category of abuse, not so sure about 'deranged' though. I think the site is better for having more contributors although you can't be sure how many there are with so many posting anonymously - stick your name on it ffs!
DeleteAnonymous at 6.58pm is that you who said it was your "last word on the matter" - that says it all about you - cannae believe anything you say then. There is something seriously wrong with people like you - do you think this is the middle ages and we are serfs who must agree with some person who says they are in Alba or the SNP. Now if you have been reading btl on SGP in previous years you will know I seriously take exception to people calling me a Unionist. So you can stuff your plant (and hopefully it is a thistle ) where the sun don't shine. It's people like you who have let people like Sturgeon and Murrell create this situation. See when you are a prick ( and thistles do tend to be prickly ) like you it's a better look to try a bit of humility and ownership. Sure you ain't that other prick called Marshall Adair.
DeleteAs regards Andy Anderson I have no idea who he is. On the other hand TartanTam has proved by his own words he is a numpty.
"I agree with Mr Kelly, Starmer is not even making promises about more devolution powers, why would people vote for him". CORRECT
ReplyDeleteYousaf is not offering a de facto vote on independence, why would independence voters vote for him. CORRECT
Independence voters are in danger of shooting themselves in the foot. CORRECT.
ReplyDeleteSNP members have already done it.
DeleteNobody expects the Unionist Triffid.
ReplyDeleteYesindyref2 you asked me a question and you will see I answered it honestly, respectfully and fully.
DeleteQuestion for you. Do you now accept Sturgeon's gang deliberately and viciously persecuted Salmond to first of all remove him from politics and then subsequently to send him to prison for a long time.
IFS, I don't share your obsession with Sturgeon, nor with Salmond - they're ex-FMs, and my interest is Independence.
DeleteAdmiral I answered your question fully, honestly and respectfully. A decent person would have done the same by return. You ain't decent. I thought you might be the exception to the norm amongst the WGD numpties but you ain't. And no I ain't crying about it.
DeleteYour excuse that Sturgeon is ex - is nonsense as she is still pulling the strings. Yousaf is a puppet. I don't share your love of Yousaf.
https://www.snp.org/our-strategy-for-winning-scotlands-independence/
ReplyDelete"Conference agrees that the SNP manifesto for the UK General Election should state on page one, line one, the following simple and powerful statement: Vote SNP for Scotland to become an independent country."
Which is as meaningful as me saying "Vote yesindyref2 for him to win the euromillions this week", unless it has an actual stated and firm plan to do that. So ignoring other waffle, we have:
"Conference believes that if the SNP subsequently wins a majority of the seats at the General Election in Scotland, the Scottish Government is empowered to begin immediate negotiations with the UK Government to give democratic effect to Scotland becoming an independent country and establish a Constitutional Convention constituted by the MPs elected to Westminster, MSPs and representatives of civic Scotland."
"to give democratic effect to Scotland becoming an independent country"
What in the name of the wee man does that meaningless piffle mean? "to give democratic effect"? That indigestible meaningless morsel has just repeated on me: "to give democratic effect"?
Yup, you got it - vote for me to win the euromillions this Friday.
THAT is why some, maybe a lot, of indy supporters will - DON'T ABSTAIN - spoil their, our ballot papers by writing "INDEPENDENCE" diagonally across them (or #EndThe Union if you prefer). Who could be bothered voting SNP just to keep someone's backside on the green benches enjoying the high life, if there's nothing in it for us like a de facto referendum on Indy as Sturgeon wanted and was shot down by Westminster green bench clingons?
That SNP resolution is wishy washy wetness, like the manifesto it would create.
is it okay by you if I write HAIL SATAN diagonally across my paper? Waiting at the polls sounds like a lot of bother if I don’t even get a real vote out of it. Might as well have some fun
DeleteAlso: which diagonal, big man? Top left bottom right or bottom left to top right? Don’t want to let the side down.
DeleteIn any case, I’ll have plenty of space to spare for some artful illustrations over the names of all these numpties i’ve no interest in “representing” me in any foreign parliament.
Admiral says:- " was shut down by Westminster green clingons " a nice turn of phrase - may use it myself in the future - but where is your evidence for this assertion that the SNP MPs had the power to oust Sturgeon and change her policy. Or as is usual with WGD numpties you are posting pish.
DeleteAnd there you have it, another example of misquoting by IFS.
DeleteTHIS is what I said:
"was shot down by Westminster green bench clingons"
spot the difference ...
Admiral you truly are an arse. A one letter typo is that it. Go on give us another example of misquoting then ya WGD numpty.
DeleteMeanwhile you deflect from my question asking for your evidence to back up your assertion. I'll assume you ain't got any evidence and you have posted pish again. You Sturgeon lovers - always trying to make up excuses for Sturgeon. She faked it for 8 years and then ran away leaving all you WGD numpties with egg on your face so you make up stuff to try and convince yourself you weren't conned by a scam artist. Pathetic. Now you have fallen in love again. Your new love being Yousaf the halfwit.
Read what's posted you complete and utter moron, and try to quote correctly though that seems to be above your non-existent abilities.
DeleteYou're missing the word "bench" in your misquote, which makes it completely clear to anyone with half a brain that it's Westminster green benches, hence Westminster "green bench clingons" I was talking about, not "green clingons".
As far as the rest of your boring nonsense is concerned read my lips:
"I don't share your obsession with Sturgeon, nor with Salmond - they're ex-FMs, and my interest is Independence."
Yours on the other hand is pestering posters even if we're not actually there.