As was pointed out in the comments section last night, though, there's simply no way of knowing the numbers that will be involved. The number of people currently diagnosed with gender dysphoria is no guide at all, because the whole point of self-ID is to allow people to change their legal gender without a medical diagnosis. So, in theory, anyone will be eligible to do it provided they make a solemn declaration, and we'll just have to wait and see how big a percentage of the population avail themselves of that opportunity.
There is, however, one area in which self-ID is bound to be a major issue (indeed it already is a major issue), even if the numbers turn out to be miniscule. And that area is women's sport. If, for example, there are 100 participants in a women's sporting event, and just one of them grew up as a biological male, there is every chance that person will end up taking a medal or a placing, and that the other competitors will be severely disadvantaged as a result.
There's also, at least theoretically, an opportunity for male athletes to exploit the system to win medals that they otherwise would have no chance of winning. Maybe they're perennial also-rans in male competitions, or perhaps they were formerly genuine contenders who are now slightly too old to compete with the elite male athletes. They could think to themselves "aha, if I just self-ID as female, I could find myself on the rostrum".
Even raising this concern is often dismissed as an example of transphobia, ie. an attempt to suggest that trans people are chancers and cheats. But the whole point is that the people who would be exploiting the system are not actually trans themselves - they are people who would be posing as trans to gain an advantage. It's hard to see how it can possibly be transphobic to be concerned about non-trans males seeking to infiltrate women's sport.
Naturally, I wanted a question in the poll about the effect of self-ID on women's sport, and in choosing the wording I was very influenced by a South African expert I saw on the BBC during the Olympics in the summer. He made the point that even if trans women athletes are required to take testosterone-suppressing medication before being eligible to compete, they still have physical advantages from having gone through puberty as males. That wasn't to say, he stressed, that trans women should necessarily be barred from competing, because inclusion and equality for the trans community are laudable goals. But people did need to be aware that inclusion and equality would come at the expense - at least to an extent - of fair competition in women's sporting events, so it really just depended on whether inclusion was seen as more important than sporting fairness, or vice versa. (I once saw a chap on Twitter claim that his daughters would learn more important life lessons from losing in a sporting event to a trans person than they ever would by winning, which is one interesting argument in favour of inclusion taking precedence over a level playing field.) That's the dilemma I asked about in the poll.
Scot Goes Pop / Panelbase poll (a representative sample of 1001 over-16s in Scotland was interviewed by Panelbase between 20th and 26th October 2021)
Some people argue that, in the interests of inclusion and equality for transgender people, athletes who have legally changed their gender from male to female should be permitted to compete in women's sporting events. Others argue that athletes who were born biologically male should be excluded from women's sporting events, because they would have an unfair advantage over other female athletes and might put other female athletes at greater risk of physical injury. Which point of view do you find more persuasive?
Athletes who have legally changed their gender from male to female should be permitted to compete in women's sporting events: 19%
Athletes who have legally changed their gender from male to female should be excluded from women's sporting events: 57%
Don't Know / Prefer not to answer: 24%
So another very decisive verdict from the Scottish public, although as with the question about female medical examiners after a sexual assault, it's men who are the most hostile to trans inclusion in women's sport - they break 16% in favour, 65% against. Women are also strongly opposed, albeit 'only' by a margin of 50% to 22%.
A plurality of every age group is opposed, although there's still a considerable gap between the generations, with 65% of over-55s wanting trans athletes to be excluded from women's events, compared to 46% of under-35s. As we've seen in other questions from the poll, SNP and Labour voters are a bit more open to trans inclusion than Tory and Lib Dem voters. The result is closest among SNP voters - 26% of whom are for inclusion, with 49% for exclusion.
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If sport isn't fair it becomes meaningless. Enough sports have problems with drug cheats and other forms of cheating they do not need this as well so I am in the 57%.
ReplyDeleteThe old East Germany would have just loved selfID. They used to pump their female athletes full of drugs (as did other countries but to a lesser extent) that they often looked like males. They wouldn't need to bother nowadays - with selfID they could just send out some guys.
England could even win the Women's Football World Cup if Foden self ID as a women. That in itself should be sufficient to be against it.😀
Re your tweet. Try asking Emma Radacuna (Sturgeons British hero) if she would like to compete with Spanish hero Rafael Nadal if he suddenly fancied winning a few more tennis majors by self ID as a women.
Delete"even if the numbers turn out to be miniscule."
ReplyDeleteThe spelling is 'minuscule', James.
"Many feel that miniscule is a misspelling, but it occurs so frequently that it appears as a variant spelling in some dictionaries."
DeleteAnd here is the rest of your quote, James:
Delete'Some people still consider it [miniscule] incorrect, though, and the original form is undoubtedly the safer choice.
That's your trouble, Rob, you always play it "safe".
DeleteAs a decidedly average male cyclist, I only need to look at my Strava performance for any given segment to see the difference in strength between the sexes. I barely get into the top 30% for most segments, but looking at the women only lists I would easily make it into the top 10 athletes for pretty much all segments.
ReplyDeleteYou forgot to mention the amount of money available for winning a medal at the World Championships.
ReplyDeleteIn Doha it was $60,000 $30,000 and $20,000 for the podium places plus a $100,000 bonus for any new World record.
$160,000 guaranteed for any moderately talented male athlete who is willing to declare themselves to be female for a few months.
Or run a couple of marathons and bank $100,000 for each race.
Or you could pretend to be lady and win Wimbledon then retire. £1,700,000 for two weeks work plus a handful of qualifiers. Certainly beats risking your health with steroids or EPO like Djoker, Nadal and the Williams brothers.
Pension Pete now getting asked about the missing ring fenced referendum funds given to the SNP. WGD numpties ignore this. The UK is a Union founded on corruption, deceit, blackmail, bribery, intimidation, racism, religious discrimination and a range of other less than admirable qualities. Pension Pete may well have been a decent person when he first went to Westminster but 20 years in that cesspit means he is not to be trusted.
ReplyDeleteI note the breakdown of gender in responses. Could the fact that ‘women’ are more likely to take a more flexible approach to the trans impact on their freedoms, mean that a few trans women are included in the sample? Should polling companies widen their breakdown of responses to include trans respondents?
ReplyDeleteThanks for doing these polls James, they're a much-needed dose of reality which our political parties and mainstream news outlets have failed to provide recently. Your analysis is well-written, though when you talked of "...the people who would be exploiting the system are not actually trans themselves" it struck me that one of Self-ID's many problems is that by definition, anyone who declares themself the opposite gender IS immediately trans, there is no other test, no measurable standard, nothing *except* self-ID to distinguish between 'trans people' and 'people calling themselves trans'... which then led me on to the next thought that the only 'standard' or 'test' we currently apply (in law at least) are the current qualifications for a GRC. They are similarly consequent on Self-ID, no-one is made to present to their doctor to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, nor is anyone forced to then apply for a GRC (as the numbers of GRCs granted so far would seem to point to), so, we are already in 'Self-ID' territory to an extent...
ReplyDeleteI worry that, as I have seen stated many times, the grounds of the original GRA will not be re-visited, and that all the debate around 'reform' of the GRA will have accomplished will be to expose the gaping flaw in the original, which we will be stuck with for want of better.
Is it too simple to instigate a trans-category in sport? But, would there need to be two categories - males "transing" to female, and a second category, females transing" to male?
ReplyDeleteA third category of trans public toilets would arguably also be a solution