For Episode 5 of the Scot Goes Popcast, I was joined by the poet Len Pennie - who you might know better as Miss PunnyPennie, or by her Twitter handle Lenniesaurus. She's a social media sensation who has attracted admiration from the likes of Hollywood actor Michael Sheen, and some would say that her Scots Word of the Day videos have done more for the Scots language in the last six months than elected governments have managed to do in the last hundred years. Topics we discussed include -
* How her passion for Scots started.
* Why Scots is definitely a fully legitimate language in its own right.
* Why she doesn't think Scots should become a fully standardised language (ie. with 'right' and 'wrong' spelling) like Gaelic.
* How her videos have been used by teachers in schools during lessons.
* The possible reasons for the irrational hatred her videos attract in some quarters.
* Her response when people say "I've never heard anyone actually using these words".
* Whether there's any prospect of a TV or radio series based on Scots Word of the Day.
* Her verdict on 'Alba-gate', ie. the mispronunciation of the new political party's Gaelic name.
* Her verdict on 'Scots-Wikipedia-gate', ie. the revelation last summer that the vast majority of the thousands of articles on the Scots Wikipedia had been written by a well-meaning American teenager who doesn't actually speak Scots.
* Most importantly of all, I ask her the question on everyone's lips: is Moira a real person?
And much, much more besides. If you have any problems with the embedded player below, the direct link to the podcast is HERE.
I grew up in the central highlands so have used Scots from a young age. I can even understand Doric pretty well. At home we freely mix Scots, English and French all the same sentence sometimes.
ReplyDeleteScots can't be readily formalised because there are such a large number of variations.
I've made a point of teaching it to my daughter who loves using it.
It's great that kids are now introduced to it in school. I was lucky in that I went to a little rural highland primary where the head teacher Mrs McMurray taught us all about Scottish language, culture, history, song etc. It was the time of the celtic revival, with Carrbridge ceilidh week the highlight of the calendar.
I grew up Scottish, so this all seemed natural to me, as does supporting normal country status for Scotland. I was surprised when I moved to the central belt and discovered how many kids knew so little about their own country, with the schools being unionist council run. They still used Scots in the playground though, but had been taught it wasn't a language.
As for the Alba party - any news on MacAskill and Hanvey resigning their seats after leaving the SNP for Alba?
ReplyDeleteThey really, really need to do this. Jeez, Alba can't have UKIP's Douglas Carswell being more honorable / democratic. It's a really bad look on top of the extra strength (now) marmite that is Salmond.
Personally, I've always thought Westminster was the place for a more radical indy party. One unquestionably hell bent on getting out of there. I have said a number of times I think the SNP not be looking to get comfy down there with grand shadow titles etc, Cherry included. But and radical 'withdrawal if needs be' party needs to have been elected by Scots to do that; not have snuck in on another party's votes / donations.
If the MSP/MP I voted for / donated to joins the opposition, I'd like my vote back please so I can maybe change it.
Under no circumstances whatever should they resign their seats, that would be an absolutely idiotic thing to do. The only people who would be pleased are the unionist parties, because they would have a chance of getting those seats back. Why the SNP are seemingly relaxed about that happening is beyond me.
DeleteShouldn't the principle of democratic consent come first
DeleteHanvey was elected as an independent. Did you demand a by election when he joined the SNP?
DeleteAll MPs are elected as individuals, they have a term of office and should see it out.
DeleteWhen haney was elected voters clearly seen the SNP rosette on the balot paper so no I didn't think a by election was necessary when he was readmitted to the party
DeleteI would not be pleased about two unnecessary by-elections, but Hanvey and MacAskill have made this necessary. It is anti-democratic and dishonorable not to step down. What's the point of voting if your MP/MSP could simply tell you they're e.g. SNP then join the Tories once you gave them your vote? We must assume voters voted for them as SNP candidates. People gave their hard earned cash as donations to campaign. It's not right. They now have no electoral mandate. They are unelected.
DeleteDo we really want politicians with less honor than UKIP? And what difference would it make anyway to lost 1 or 2 if that actually happened? 59 pro-indy MPs gets us f'n nowhere. All this does is look bad; like Alba are no better than unionists playing the system for their own benefit.
Sorry James but I am first and foremost a democrat and I can't forget my principles just because someone is on my side. In fact that's when I should be most vocal.
I am not opposed to the concept of Alba and understand why it's forming. But it should be different. It can't say the SNP are increasingly anti-democratic and not listening to voters then do stuff like this.
'All MPs are elected as individuals'
DeleteYes, this is the great British system as unionists like to remind us when they've been caught in some scandal and 'apparently' been chucked out of the party.
If Hanvey and MacAskil put 'We plan to leave the SNP in the next couple of years to join the opposition and attack the SNP' I suspect they might have done less well votes-wise. They used SNP funds. They took the hard earned case of donators. Branch members trust them and trudged the streets for them. It's just not right.
I personally don't mind at all to have a group of more radical pro-indy MPs at westminster. I think that's a great ideal. But let's not become our enemy for that never ends well.
Hanvey was elected as an independent.
DeleteA fair point, although the ballot paper said SNP I understand.
A little bit of history for you youngsters. Before 1970 no party name went against the names of candidates on the ballot paper. Just their name and address. Almost everyone knew as to which party they represented through the leaflets and newspaper reports. You elect the person, not the party they represent.
DeleteAye, that's the great British FPTP system technically, although the party name is prominent now.
DeleteUnder democratic PR you elect the party of course; hence e.g. 'party list PR', although you can of course personally take the candidates into account. This is how it should be IMO. If you stand for a party you should stick with them or seek a new mandate. That can be your own 'independent' party, just like Margo.
If Christine Grahame accepts my vote only to change party and oppose the SNP after I helped elect her, I will not be happy. If she stepped down and asked again for my vote I'd definitely listen. This how the electorate feel as a rule and Alba should take note.
Don't crap on those who voted for you is the rule.
Why should they give up their seats? I hope they stay and cause as much acrimony with the English/Brit Tories as possible. So much so that they will get so fed up with Alba that they will grant an S30 to get rid of us because the English Tories are victims of their own vile racist propaganda.
DeleteHonour and democracy doesn't come into as the Brit Tories have no honour and democracy is a stranger to them. How many unelected Parasitic Peers are there in the House of Lords bleeding us dry. Give up their seats - Pull the other one!
''I hope they stay and cause as much acrimony with the English/Brit Tories as possible.''
DeleteI don't see that happening as they've been ineffective at Westminster up until now.
Oh dear. Now Tommy Sheridan and his Wife have joined Alba. Who's next? Margaret Ferrier the super spreader? Count Dankula?
ReplyDeleteI think one of the desired qualities to join Alba is to have been involved in either a high profile court case or scandal.
How anyone could vote for this bunch of clowns over the Scottish Greens is beyond me.
I'm struggling to see much overlap between Tommy Sheridan and Count Dankula - the former is a socialist and the latter is far-right.
DeleteSeems like they will take anyone on so long as you have a controversial past. I can only see Alba appealing to the StuAnon collective. The average punter is going to look at Alba and see a group of chancers. I am hearing that Sean Clerkin is getting involved with Alba. Enough said.
DeleteCant see anything saying that Tommy Sheridan or his wife are going to be standing as Alba candidates tbh. All I can see is him tweeting that he's joined the party.
DeleteMuch as I think that Scottish politics seriously needs a new party, I don't think that a collection of people who I wouldn't touch with an electric prod is an improvement.
DeleteIt really is turning into a bit of a Suicide Squad, I can't wait for Harley Quin to announce she's joined.
DeleteNext up Alex Arthur boxer, fgs.
DeleteOh good grief. Scots isn't a language - it's a collective term for a disparate collection of dialects/languages.
ReplyDeleteHuh? All languages are a collection of dialects. French has multiple dialects, from regional variations in France itself to Quebec and former colonies. They are all French though fundamentally.
DeleteIf you learn French, quickly you realise that nobody actually speaks 'formal' French. Speak that to people and they'll look at you funny just like if you went around using the queens English all the time.
English is the same. Multiple variants, including Scottish standard English, which is different to the English English kids learn. But that's outwith the scope of this post.
"Scots isn't a language - it's a collective term for a disparate collection of dialects/languages."
DeleteWhat you seem to mean is that it's a language with dialects, just like any other language. In fact having dialects is one of the very things that makes it a language.
Go back to school.
DeleteGoogle 'Ausbau' to find out about the process whereby standardised languages are created from dialects. One of the most recent fully formed languages of this type us Luxembourgish which used to be dismissed as 'bad German'.
DeleteThere's no pish like Luxembourgish.
DeleteScotland has 3 languages. Scots, English and Gaelic.
DeleteA language is codified. 'Scots' isn't a codified language, although the government might be trying in on. All that does is denigrate Scottish culture.
ReplyDeleteWhat mince. You can only codify a language if it already exists in a general form. This could not be more obvious.
DeleteAnd you can codify dialects too, but they are not languages.
This is like "ignorance about the Scots language" bingo from Mouse. Languages can be standardised, semi-standardised or non-standardised, and the vast majority of the world's languages fall into the latter category. Scots is actually semi-standardised, because there are some conventions.
DeleteUNESCO class Scots as an endangered language.
Deletehttp://www.unesco.org/languages-atlas/en/atlasmap.html
Thanks to the Brits.
Good that our government is trying to make sure it's not lost.
D'uh.
DeleteKenny MsAskill Emailed members. He's ettlin tae cairry on as an MP.
ReplyDeleteNae word o staunin doun. TBH these calls to resign or call an election are well rehearsed.
All parties do it and get indignant ar a refusal. I'm more concerned that Kenny's heart hasn't been with us for some time, and SNP members feel as if we've been mugged.
Scots is a language BTW. If mair folk unnerstuid oor ain culture an leid - baith Scots an Gaelic then we wadna hae the self-denial an lack o confidence that's weel-seen in the comments o Moose. GOOD GRIEF! Whit!
Kenny MacAskill was interviewed on the 9 programme last night as was a couple of his constituent who weren't too happy with him and suggested that there should be a by-election. Maybe with his refusal to stand down he'll find that his constituents will vote SNP x 2 now.
DeleteThey stood for election on SNP platform. They have left the SNP for a breakaway party. If they believe in their new manifesto stand for election again.
ReplyDeleteIs that the lassie who only speaks in Scots sometimes for her career I haven't listened to the podcast yet.
If we don't get a super duper majority we're doomed. What is a supermajority is that more than one. Sounds a bit like running about shouting about gold standard.
ReplyDelete'Wur' doomed.
DeleteThanks James and Len. I really enjoyed the podcast.
ReplyDeleteThere's some right-wing comedian standing for Laurence Fox's Monster Raving ...sorry, I mean Reclaim party.
ReplyDeleteA GLASGOW councillor has become the latest SNP defector to Alex Salmond’ s Alba Party, just hours before Nicola Sturgeon gives a campaign speech in the city.
ReplyDeleteShettleston councillor Michelle Ferns, who helped deliver the £500m equal pay settlement for female city workers, intends to stand on the Glasgow list for Holyrood in May.
The commies are coming.
ReplyDeleteCONVICTED perjurer Tommy Sheridan has announced he has joined Alex Salmond’s new Alba Party.
Mr Sheridan, who was last an MSP in 2007, currently works for the Kremlin-fund Sputnik news website, while Mr Salmond works for the Kremlin-funded RT TV channel.
Wouldn't it be ironic if James Kelly's usual argument, which he will now abandon for this election came back to haunt him.
ReplyDeleteJohn Curtice, the UK’s savant of psephology. According to Professor Curtice, Mr Salmond’s sunny predictions of a pro-independence supermajority could turn to ashes on election day. Unless Alba’s candidates secure a sufficient percentage of votes in the constituency lists their efforts may deprive the SNP of the handful of these they require to gain an overall majority.
Obviously they "may" cost the SNP an overall majority. They also "may" prevent a Unionist majority. Not sure why Kevin McKenna needs to enlist John Curtice to figure that out.
DeleteJohn Curtice is saying that Alba could scupper the SNP getting a majority in May and that Alex Salmond may not want the SNP to get a majority so that he can be the ''kingmaker'' and dictate indy tactics to Nicola Sturgeon in her negotiations with Westminster.
DeleteSNP reporting membership numbers continue to grow healthily.
ReplyDeleteNo sign of any significant defections / subs cancellations; just normal churn they are saying.
This wouldn't be a surprise as I don't see Alba as having general appeal. It's too niche for that. It may appeal to a small subset of 'former' SNP but not to the general public. After all, it even states it doesn't want to be in government, but just wants to take votes from and annoy the SNP.
Incidentally, I guess the Alba plan was actually to take down Sturgeon / the SNP via the committee / Hamilton and then enter stage right?
I suppose this would explain Salmond turning his guns from Leslie Evans and the UK civil service towards the SNP as things approached conclusion.
If so, then it's a lesson in why it's better to be nice, as it backfired big style and has probably prevented more people going for Alba-SNP.
I'd have been much more open to Alba if it wasn't so anti-SNP (and anti-Green) in origins. The public would have been too I suspect.
I fail to see thew anti-SNP message, whereas in contrast we've seen a lot of anti alba messaging from the SNP.
Delete"I have no ambition to be in government. I am not standing to be First Minister, I am standing for the Alba Party on the list to build an independence super-majority."
Mr Salmond said his party will be carrying out a "positive" campaign and urged voters to back the SNP or another pro-independence party in the constituency seats.
Salmond was publicly saying Sturgeon broke the ministerial code - a resignation offence - right up to the moment Hamilton said Salmond wasn't telling the truth on this and completely exonerated Sturgeon.
DeleteThe public can clearly see Salmond was gunning for her / the SNP. And people know what defection is about; so you can freely attack your former party.
I cannot see how the public won't see things this way.
As the whole saga carried on, I became increasingly sure Sturgeon hadn't done anything really, so would be cleared, and no questions about it given Hamilton is totally independent. As a result, I became more unhappy with Salmond trying to say she had when it was Leslie Evans at fault. For me, he wanted Sturgeon damaged ahead of the Alba launch.
If he'd not wrongly attacked Sturgeon, but just quietly gone about Alba, I think the public would have been more favourable to the whole idea, myself included.
I think he made a mistake here and shot the idea in the foot.
"SNP reporting membership numbers continue to grow healthily.
DeleteNo sign of any significant defections / subs cancellations; just normal churn they are saying."
The operative words there are "SNP reporting" and "they are saying". Why anyone would take that remotely seriously for as long as they keep their membership numbers secret is beyond me.
Meanwhile, Alba have acquired either 20,000 or 60,000 members since they started, according to which of their supporters you listen to. Why do these completely unsubstantiated figures even get reported?
DeleteAs noted below, the defection rate appears to be less than 1% so far, based on elected reps changing camp.
DeleteThat might tie in with a loss of 100 members or so, as reported by the SNP, assuming they have 100k+
As also noted below -
Delete"Och, don't be silly. There's no reason to assume that sort of correlation - it's harder for elected representatives to defect, because they have more to lose."
''I'd have been much more open to Alba if it wasn't'' ... connected to the toxic dwarf in Bath. Yesterday he was encouraging his clique to vote for Sarwar.
DeleteSalmonds' calling out around Scotland to get to the streets
ReplyDeleteCallin' out around the world
Are you ready for a brand new beat
Summer's here and the time is right
For dancing in the street
It's just an invitation across the nation
A chance for folks to meet
There'll be laughing, singing and music swinging
Dancing in the street…
Is the breakaway Alba party new policy on women. That inappropriate behaviour towards women is fine as long as it's not criminal.
ReplyDeleteLooks like one woman's been pushed to the side already.
DeleteThe party was founded and registered with the Electoral Commission by the retired television producer Laurie Flynn on 8 February 2021.
On 26 March 2021, Salmond announced at the party's election launch that he had joined the party and would become the new leader, taking over from Flynn
Genius, Laurie Flynn is actually a man. FFS
DeleteHow's IfS doing with punting his ISP, I wonder how much cash he put in. FFS
ReplyDeleteThere should be a time limit on these politicians. Regard of who they are or how many fanboys they have. Sometimes 20 or 40 years they're in the same job . Getting paid 70 grand a year or whatever. All the while most of their constituents are on minimum wage.
ReplyDeleteHow many times over the years have I heard she or he is a hard-working constituency MP. If you believe that you'll believe the one about the Queen working her socks off or the celebrity that does lot for charity
The emergence and re-emergence of Alba and Salmond is a bit of a double edged sword, calling Salmond a marmite character would be being very kind indeed. Salmond's approval rating's are even worse than Boris Johnson's in Scotland. About -63 yes that's minus 63, it's on a par with Thatcher or even Hitler.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, he's an incredibly strong and charismatic character and his political opponents will be wary of him. People that don't like him may well listen to him and even follow him. His approval rating may improve as he spends more time in the public eye. He's already talking much tougher on pushing for independence than Sturgeon and the SNP ever have, and he won't be as easily placated by Westminster refusal.
What platform or standing he'll have remains to be seen, but I fancy Boris and the Tories will be more than a tad more fearful and respectful of the Scottish nationalist movement than the were this time last week. With Salmond as an opponent they know they'll need to be gearing up for the fight they'll most definitely have on their hands.
With success and a mandate they know Salmond will be fueling up the tanks ready to park them on Westminster's lawn.
''He's already talking much tougher on pushing for independence than Sturgeon and the SNP ever have.''
DeleteAnd he's hardly out of the blocks and talking about people taking to the street. That won't go down well with most half decent Scots.
There won't be by-elections, there rarely are when MPs move to another party...Change being a recent example. Nor do I think it much matters really. Alba will almost certainly vote with the SNP on most issues.
ReplyDeleteWhether, Alba gains enough traction to secure 5%+ is another matter. If they don't then the party will likely disappear without trace like Change. If they do then they may well be a ginger group to the SNP like Brexit was to the Tories.
We shall see. I have opted for a postal vote so I expect my ballot papers will arrive soon. Alba will need to get their candidates and policy ducks sorted quickly if they are to catch the postal vote avalanche.
The Dirty Dozen Alba A-Team. If you've got a problem with the Britsh government, and no one else can help, and you can stomach voting for them, you can elect the Alba Squad.
ReplyDeleteMembership is dependent on a controversial/criminal past. No-one else need apply.
Defection rate - in terms of elected representatives - remains less than 1% so far?
ReplyDeleteA good judge of the scale of things. A similar number of voters might be expected to follow suit. So it would be 1% of say 50% = 0.5%.
If it gets to 10% defection you are talking about a real 'split' and 5% of the total vote so seats.
Och, don't be silly. There's no reason to assume that sort of correlation - it's harder for elected representatives to defect, because they have more to lose.
DeleteSure it's not some proven formula, but it's not that silly either.
DeleteSo far there's been what 4 defections out of 542 or so. Maybe it will grow, but this seems small.
The public are notoriously nervous of small parties as even in under AMS, just like FPTP, they can lose their vote.
The really need to feel there's something big happening or they stick with a safer bet. That means their friends and family saying 'I'm going for Alba!' etc.
We must remember the social media political geek bubble doesn't reflect the real world. Most SNP voters are not geeks constantly debating factional allegiances and strategies.
Hey Skier, you want to copyright your formula, just in case, say, John Curtice nicks it to predict elections.
DeleteHow did it work for Change UK and UKIP.
Got to hand it to you, one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
ISP/AFI, were political geek bubble, hardly anyone even noticed they existed, a bit like RISE. Salmond on the other hand has profile and standing and attracts media coverage. Like him or loathe him, you can't ignore him. Parties and media are in a bit of a frenzy right now.
UK never made any inroads at Westminster for the reasons specified, although they managed 12.6% in 2015.
DeleteBut that's because they were, in effect the only 'pro-independence' party going with the Tories openly saying they were against brexit.
Scots can pick from a range of pro-Yes parties, including 2 which are already safe bets for picking up seats.
The media can do what they like. The public know Salmond super well and will just ignore him if they want to. It doesn't matter how much coverage he gets. Pretty much everyone already has their mind made up about him.
I'm honestly not sure what will happen, but my gut feeling is 'probably not a lot' because Alba does seem very internal SNP faction related and small at that. Polling will give an indication soon enough.
UKIP never....
Delete''Salmond on the other hand has profile and standing and attracts media coverage.''
DeleteRight enough. Most Scots don't like him and as the media coverage of him reaches frenzy point going over and over his treatment of women, such as the one that he conceded to having ''treated inappropriately'' and apologised to in private, his profile and standing will probably plummet even further.
This is what I meant; it's the reality of defections.
ReplyDeleteIf you support Alba, it seems great to have people coming on board, but those betrayed are not so happy.
Even if I backed Alba and voted SNP-Alba, I'd be furious if Christine Grahame then promptly defected. I would feel betrayed and lied to. I'd want my vote and donations back.
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/19193683.snp-mps-defection-left-completely-shattered/
Neale Hanvey's defection to the Alba Party has left me completely shattered
...As convener of the liaison committee which spearheaded Neale’s campaign in 2019 I was left with a huge dilemma when he was suspended by the party. I decided to put my party membership of 46 years on the line and to continue publicly to support Neale. I felt vindicated when Neale was readmitted to the party in May 2020. At his social event to celebrate his victory, Neale singled me out as perhaps making the biggest contribution towards his victory...
And those that he has betrayed probably won't vote for him now.
DeleteOf interest to those who bet on the "winner w/o SNP" markets: the Tories are floating the idea of withdrawing candidates in hopeless constituencies. Since Labour have ruled out any reciprocation, I'd expect this to make them favourites for second place.
ReplyDelete