Putting to one side the Lib Dem leadership contender's cretinous implication in the Herald that the SNP are turning Scotland into some sort of ultra-nationalist police state, Farron has actually said something today that's quite interesting. He's unambiguously stated that a Devo Max option should have been on the ballot paper last September, although regrettably he doesn't seem to have been asked the obvious follow-up question - ie. does he condemn his Lib Dem colleagues in government for directly ensuring that didn't happen?
He was, however, asked whether there should be a Devo Max option in any future independence referendum. This was his reply -
"Yes, I guess that would make sense. The Scottish party would make that choice and I would respect that choice. But I am sure they would consider that."
Which again begs an obvious question - WHY are you so sure they would do anything as sensible as consider the matter with an open mind, given that they dismissed the idea out of hand last time? In reality, of course, the distinction between the Scottish party and the UK party is as much of a fiction in the Lib Dems as it is in any of the other London-based parties, so unless he changes his mind, Farron's views on a Devo Max option should indeed move things in a very different direction. In the light of that, it would be useful to have clarity from him on the following points -
1) If you have conceded the principle that Devo Max is something the people have a right to decide on, that implies it is a legitimate and feasible option (regardless of whether the Lib Dems support it themselves). Will the Lib Dems therefore stop pretending that the Smith package more or less represents the end point of what is possible for Scotland within the UK, and that the choice is a binary one between Smith and independence?
2) If Devo Max was a legitimate option to put to the people last September, will the Lib Dems now acknowledge that their failure to do so means that it is a nonsense for anyone to claim that the referendum result established that a package of powers far short of Devo Max was somehow the will of the electorate?
3) The public have already been consulted on independence, but they haven't yet been consulted on Devo Max. If you think there should have been a multi-option referendum last year, it would surely be logical to now hold a single-question referendum on Devo Max as a remedial step. If, for the sake of argument, the SNP were to propose that, would they be able to look forward to Lib Dem backing?
Who? Deid Parrot Party!
ReplyDeleteNothing explains the irrelevance of the lib dems to scottish politics more than the brainless posturing and smearing of the SNP by Farron.
DeleteLet's face facts, the lib dems in scotland are represented in westmisnter by one solitary self-confessed lying smearer in the incompetent Carmichael. Rennie is a joke who didn't have the balls to accept the blame for the wipeout of the lib dems in scotland and Farron and Lamb are a pair of westminster establishment lightweights.
Just because Farron was subject to the dirty tricks and smears of Lamb's campaign certainly doesn't mean he is any better as his witless smearing of the scottish public proves.
So you can place anything Farron says as he tries to win the leadership in the same bin that used to be reserved for Clegg's endless empty posturing.
At the end of the day it actually doesn't matter who the lib dems choose as they are destined for irrelevance for many, many years to come. They will make all the precise same mistakes again because the fuckwits in Clegg's ostrich faction at lib dem HQ are still there and still in place ready to do it all over again for the next idiot ready to take up the lib dem 'leadership' poisoned chalice, be it Lamb or Farron.
I think that they (Lib-Dems) were used by the Tories,and Carmichael went along thinking he was now "one of the big boys" not only daft but saft ano.Eejit was the word made for their like.
DeleteA lot of that interview where it related to Scotland just echoed what wee Wullie Runnie continuously spouts and probably originated there. Farron not previously known for his "informed views" on Scotland. Runnie is obsessed by the Polis. Was he rejected by them once or something?
ReplyDeleteRegarding so called devo max or home rule. As a settlement, for me that horse has bolted and it's Independance all the way. Their promises of home rule worked out so well before after all with Ireland, India etc. Going back all the way to the American colonies. Failed promises and years of procrastination. I think the tories and the other unionist parties genuinely think they can just do what the like and the indepnedence movement will just eventually run out of steam.
I'm reading in certain quarters, even McWhirters book, Tsunami which I have just finished that Sturgeon is becoming more sanguine towards some sort of devo max solution as an endgame, leaving defence, foreign policy etc in the hands of London. Not sure about that one... She's been committed since her school days but if she were relaxing her view on that, I think the bulk of the 100 odd thousand members might convince her otherwise.
Back to Farron's crap. It'll be a long long time before anything any libdem says has any relevance anyway. That party is back in the dark days having had their 15 minutes. Be a long time if ever before they hold any influence or relevance again.
Tired of newspapers printing rubbish like this unchallenged from a minor politician. The Herald, whilst not rancid like the DM or DR still promoted devomaxvow crap. I respect journalists like McKay and McWhirter. Others in the Herald stable seem more split personality when they're writing for both the daily and sunday issues... the daily version is on my list of news and views I won't pay money for. This article is lazy garbage.
Wee Willie Winkie's obsession wi' the polis might well have something to do with an unpaid £800,000 policing bill for their last party conference...
Delete"I have just finished that Sturgeon is becoming more sanguine towards some sort of devo max solution as an endgame"
DeleteNope.
Whoever you're reading who is trying to imply or hint at that doesn't know Nicola Sturgeon and doesn't know the party very well. Of the things we have to worry about that's certainly not one of them.
Do not mistake an evolving view of DevoMax for any kind of relenting on Independence. It's just not the case.
I don't think she is either but at the end of Iain McWhirters book just published he implies quite strongly that she is.
DeleteI personally hope for indyref2 in 2017 or 2018 depending on when the idiot Cameron settles for euroref.
Like I said, I think the tories have settled into the same attitude they had towards Ireland in 19th/20th century of "give not an inch and they will eventually crumble" That worked out well for them then...
He can imply it as strongly as he likes but at the end of the day he had a book to sell while Nicola is hardly likely to do a complete u-turn on Independence since it is what got her into politics in the first place and gives her the drive to be so successful and get where she is now.
DeleteThe fop seems to have settled on late 2016 but we'll know soon enough if that's the case.
There is simply no way on earth you can hold a referendum with implications this huge and just stumble into it months beforehand. If the chumocracy thinks they can just wait till 6 months beforehand then spring it on an unsuspecting tory party and public then they really are as out of touch as they seem.
The IN/OUT referendum will need a year's notice at the bare minimum. Very soon now suspicious Eurosceptic tories will start bombarding Cameron's chumocracy with demands for the exact date because even they will know that something like this will need way more than a 6 month campaign. The smarter of the Eurosceptics will probably have realised by now that the longer the campaign is the more likely they are to control the narrative and with another EU crisis raging away stoking the rampant Euroscepticism at the heart of the tory party they really would be pretty dumb not to start it right now.
@Mr Pork.
DeleteAre you a very close acquaintance of Ms Sturgeon?
Asking those questions is just doing more of those worst and darkest things. Vile.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletetragic
ReplyDeleteliberal democrats
historic party of Scottish Home Rule
don't have a fcuking clue what home rule is
I suspect that the odious britnat propagandist Caron Lindsay is involved in farron's attack on Scotland.
ReplyDeleteThe lying anti-dems are choosing between him and the revolting N Lamb. Another who happily indulges in Jocko-bashing.
Second post on this but....
ReplyDeleteAbsolute garbage filler piece. This is not an interview or even journalism. It's a press release reprinted. Not a smidgeon of challenge or analysis.
Why would you pay for this?
The only way to go now is TOTAL Independence.
ReplyDeleteLeaving anything to tory westminster-and let's face it the others are just pretend opposition-would be wrong and another stick to beat us with.
All they will do is screw everything up and blackmail,cheat and connive.
Their main concern is keeping useless trident in Scottish territory.
It's all about CONTROL.
Prime example=piss poor Smith Commission and they still voted everything down.
English votes for Scottish devo? That's what they think we'll just roll over and accept.
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.END OF.
The only way to go now is TOTAL Independence.
ReplyDeleteLeaving anything to tory westminster-and let's face it the others are just pretend opposition-would be wrong and another stick to beat us with.
All they will do is screw everything up and blackmail,cheat and connive.
Their main concern is keeping useless trident in Scottish territory.
It's all about CONTROL.
Prime example=piss poor Smith Commission and they still voted everything down.
English votes for Scottish devo? That's what they think we'll just roll over and accept.
TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.END OF.
This will almost certainly be Vow 2, when the next indyref looks like going against them:
ReplyDelete"Scotland, we know we promised devomax/ home rule last time and we let you down, but this time it's for real. P,ease don;t leave us!"
Devo Max is the final stepping stone across the Rubicon we still need (barring a "material change in circumstances", whatever the hell that means). So whoever mentions it, I'm always happy to see it as high up the agenda as possible.
ReplyDeleteIf half of Scotland - even after GE15 - still prefer to carry on being passengers on Middle England's crazy bus, their crazy tax-cutting, house-price-obsessing, infrastructure-privatising, society-splitting, I'm-All-Right-Jack, red/blue, boom-bust bus, rather than taking the wheel when it was perfectly placed in our own capable hands last year, then further stepwise transition is the only conceivable way forward.
As for the comments, thankfully for us it is becoming increasingly obvious to the general public that not a single word uttered by any UK party politician on the subject of Scotland can be presumed not to have an ulterior motive. Not a single word.
With or without help from complicit journalism.
The more often this gets highlighted the better.
Oh yes, I remember now. The Lib-Dems have a leadership race too. Is anybody else running?
ReplyDeleteFarron is only trying to lie his way out of the present predicament,and hope enough people are daft enough to vote Lib-Dem next May and save Indigestion Wullie from being the last man!? standing.I really don't think that there are enough dafties left in Scotland.
ReplyDeleteRennie described fiscal autonomy as an extreme form of devolution and presumably a step too far for the British Liberal party in Scotland.
ReplyDeleteThis would also rule out any sort of federal system which involved London not being firmly in control of our finances,so what his party always claimed they stood for is now clouded in mystery.
What do they stand for?