Today has brought the bombshell revelation from Paul Hutcheon of the Sunday Herald that Jim Murphy is no longer a patriot. Normal caveats apply of course -
"Who are these separatists to say that a non-patriot can't be patriotic? My non-patriotism is every bit as patriotic as the patriotism of the patriots. In fact, it's BECAUSE I'm such a patriotic Scot that I believe so passionately in non-patriotism."
- but in essence it appears that patriotic Labour is no more.
An even more fascinating nugget is that Murphy has apparently been taking legal advice over whether it would be within Labour party rules for him to remain as 'leader' if he loses his seat next month. Although the rules clearly state that a candidate for leader must hold a parliamentary seat, there's a degree of ambiguity over whether retaining that seat is a precondition for carrying on as leader after an election.
Here's the thing, though - in the first instance, the interpretation of Labour rules is a matter for Labour itself. So if there was unanimity in the party hierarchy that it would (for some bizarre reason) be desirable for Murphy to cling on for dear life after defeat in the general election, it would be very easy to simply interpret the rules in the most generous way. If Murphy is taking legal advice, then, we can take it as read that no such unanimity exists, and that he's seriously contemplating the possibility of defying a challenge from within the party to his legitimacy as leader.
Might be worth having some popcorn to hand - you know, just to cover all contingencies.
I much preferred the Yvonne Elliman version James.
ReplyDeleteI still blame the SNP
ReplyDeleteSo does Kezia, with every breath she takes.
DeleteJim had a word with McTernan. But John you said all I had to do to win back these Yes voting bigots. Was to pretend I was a patriot like yon Willie Wallace! Aye but its no workin Jim. Turns out they arny as stupid as we thought. It wusnae the Scotland football top they wanted. They actually really do want us to be left wing and they do believe in democracy and social justice.
ReplyDeleteWhit John are they ferkin stuck in the 80s. Yon Blair got rid of the last socialist 10 years ago. Right so have I to ditch the footie talk and the booze at games. What can we dae now John.
Oh I have a cunning plan Jim we are getting rid of you!
Easy, the answer is for Ed to recommend him for a peerage. That way, he will still stay a Parliamentarian. So arise, Lord Murphy!
ReplyDeleteLord A has just tweeted that he expects to complete two more Scottish polls by Tuesday. Presumably that will be the two Edinburgh seats (North / Leith and South) that were mentioned on here last week, but were not in the eight released on Friday.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree Murphy is a nugget, I in no way find him fascinating...
ReplyDeleteJB
It seems to me that it's entirely up to the Labour party hierarchy whether they want Jim to stay on or not if he loses his seat. No legal advice is going to be able to change that decision.
ReplyDeleteHe hasn't even lost the bloody seat yet either.
You know, he seems to have denied this rumour, and given that it makes no sense even from Murphy, he might even be telling the truth.
I'd have been more inclined to doubt the report if Murphy had confirmed it.
DeleteWell, memogate and all that. Just because it's Jim doesn't mean everything anyone accuses him of is true.
DeleteLet's not underestimate him. Jim's a record-breaker in so many ways.
DeleteStaying on as leader without even being able to retain your own seat. I can scarcely think of anything more selfish. I honestly don't understand why this man appeals to *anybody*.
ReplyDeleteHe is not the only one.
DeleteArise Lord Danny Alexander - after losing your seat you can still retain your job in the treasury if a Con Lib coalition is the result.
Apparently he is well respected - by the Tories!
Very true Hoss, not the only one indeed.
DeleteGordon Wilson. SNP leader from 1979 to 1990. As MP for Dundee East he lost his seat in 1987 but stayed on as SNP leader for 3 years until he was succeeded by some guy called Alex Salmond.
At no point during his spell as leader was Gordon Wilson the parlianentary group leader. If the SNP hadn't made that absolute and slightly weird distinction between the two leadership roles, Wilson's position certainly would have been untenable in 1987. As I understand it, Jim Murphy sees himself as a potential First Minister, not as a Wilson-style extra-parliamentary leader.
DeleteAs I said in my post the other day, what happens on May 7th will be nothing compared to the shenanigans that SLAB get up to after their electoral annihilation.
ReplyDeleteIn the search to be in the 13 List slots for Holyrood 2016 SLAB troughers will stop at nothing and any chance to reduce the number of opponents that could take their slot, they will jump at the chance.
Whatever the legality of Murphy's situation, it would be terrible politics for him to cling on to his role as leader when he had been rejected by his constituents.
ReplyDeleteWhat would this say about the Labour Party in Scotland?
What would it say about Jim Murphy?
2016, would be a complete bloodbath for Labour MSP's if Jim Murphy was still leader, in fact I think they are in for a bloodbath in 2016 anyway, so it doesn't matter what they do.
RED TORIES OUT!!!
2011 was a bloodbath. I was there. I have trouble believing there's scope for another.
Delete"Whatever the legality of Murphy's situation, it would be terrible politics for him to cling on to his role as leader when he had been rejected by his constituents.
DeleteWhat would this say about the Labour Party in Scotland?
What would it say about Jim Murphy?"
I guess it would say that he's in a similar position to the SNP at the end of the 80s, seeing as they did exactly the same thing. It's not *that* unusual an occurence in British politics.
Glass houses, stones etc.
It was the wrong decision to make him leader, and it would be cretinously stupid to keep him should he lose his seat. Perhaps Findlay or Boyack still wants the job. It will need to be a long, slow rebuilding process.
DeleteI agree with you Niall, it's just this constant partisan babbling refrain of 'It's bad unless my party does it' kind of grinds my gears.
DeleteI hope Jim Murphy loses his seat, and I think he's a very bad choice for the Labour party (frankly the guy is an opportunistic weasel). But saying he's lost moral authority because he loses his seat is just stupid. Even Thatcher or Blair would have lost their seat if they stood in the wrong place.
Nathalie Bennett, Nigel Farage and about 75% of the SNP past leadership are or were in the same boat. It's just a thing that happens in British politics. There are plenty real reasons to kick Jim Murphy without being an obvious hypocrite.
What a load of crap!
DeleteJim Murphy has enjoyed a huge majority in his seat, so him losing it requires a complete collapse in Labours vote, rather than simply an MP who loses his seat.
Thatcher or Blair never came close to losing their seats, and even Brown when he was at his most unpopular, won his own seat with a landslide majority.
Jim Murphy's seat was under threat but he was still ahead (just) only a few weeks ago, but the latest Ashcroft polls has him falling behind, so if his own showing/behaviour in the election campaign, is causing his own constituents, to reject him, it would be crass stupidity for Labour to allow him to remain as leader.
Oh, and talking about crass stupidity, perhaps reading my posts with someone who has a decent level of comprehension, would be advisable, as you would then be able to understand that when I said 'it would be terrible politics' this is not the same as saying 'this would lack moral authority'
So the next time you find your hears grinding at my obvious hypocrisy, take a deep breath count to ten, and read my comment again...
..It might save you from looking like a complete eedjit,
Anon : Oh, for heaven's sake, come off it. If you're making the comparison with Natalie Bennett, you're effectively saying that Labour will be a fringe party after this election (that's exactly how the Green Party of England and Wales are defined by Ofcom). Nigel Farage has committed himself to resigning as UKIP leader if he fails to win Thanet South, because he presumably realises it's untenable for the party to be led by a non-MP if it now sees itself as a major force.
DeleteThe only comparison you've made that has any validity is with Gordon Wilson, but his ability to stay on as leader depended on a perception of the SNP leader's function that has now passed into history. There's no way that could happen again.
Oh, and by the way, your implication that Thatcher or Blair could have stayed on as leader if they had lost their seat is fatuous beyond words. This is not something that "just happens in British politics". If you're a major party leader, you generally don't lose your seat, and if you do lose your seat that's a calamity that renders your position untenable.
DeleteBadly worded on my end.
DeleteThe point I was trying to illustrate was that it's not about Jim Murphy. Labour are in such as mess in Scotland that Robin Cook's Ghost himself would struggle to win a seat.
Likewise, you could pin a blue rosette on a monkey in Chingford and it would probably still win. Heck, IDS gets 50% of the vote and he's basically the child catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
What I'm saying is that while Murphy is an odious politician who could even get me to vote tactically for the SNP just to keep him out, he's not the architect of Labour's woes. They screwed the pooch long before he became leader, he's just the one left holding the bag.
He became leader to get into a gunfight with the SNP, only to find that all Labour had armed him with was a banana. Now admittedly he then took that banana and smeared it all over his face while making baboon noises, but he didn't cause the problem. He's just the lucky recipient.
So the Thatcher/Blair thing wasn't about party leaders, it was an attempt to answer the 'what does that say about Murphy' question up above.
DeleteMy answer is 'not much'. When you're in a situation like we are right now in Scotland, it doesn't matter who you are. Standing up against the SNP in 2015 is like spitting into a tornado.
North Leith is going nowhere. SNP have poor ground game,gotv and a v.poor candidate associated with edinburgh council incompetence.
ReplyDeleteWhy are we suddenly inundated with people randomly telling us that Edinburgh North and Leith is going to vote Labour? An Ashcroft poll of the seat will be out this week, so we'll soon have hard numbers rather than spin. For what it's worth, the YouGov nowcast has the seat as one of only nine in Scotland where the SNP aren't ahead - but they're only very slightly behind.
DeleteThat is no bar to winning a seat though. Labour have been getting away with poor ground games and incompetent candidates for decades and in some cases candidates that were out and out corrupt. Brit Labours time is up.
DeleteLike most people, when I think of "Edinburgh Council incompetence" I think of the Lib/Lab pact which was control of the Council for its many, many failures of which the Trams debacle is merely the most obvious.
DeleteFrom looking at past voting in the area, it seems Malcolm Chisholm has local popularity, not Mark Lazarowicz?
DeleteIt's just that Lazarowicz's vote collapsed by 12% in his first 2001-2005 term - and that was during the 'good times' of the boom - with even the threat of the imminent return of the Tories not being enough to tactically boost it more than by a few points in 2010.
Speaking to someone very involved on the ground for the SNP in Edinburgh South who reckons it's pretty much neck and neck there. Kinda fits with the narrative that labour were seeing better canvas returns in 'leafy areas' in the East. Wouldn't be hugely surprised to see Labour holding onto a couple of Edinburgh seats via Tory votes to be honest. It would be amusing to see Labour as the establishment party of the right wing middle class though.....
Deletehttps://twitter.com/LordAshcroft/status/590166248031391745
DeleteJust sayin....
If Murphy stays on as ScotLab leader then the party would have to pay him out their own funds. Why would they do this when they could have Kezia as leader at taxpayer expense?
ReplyDeleteBut then they will be back to the old Branch Office problems with the MPs refusing to be included in the leader's area of power and responsibility like they did with Lamont. Mind you that is predicated on there being any Labour MPs on May 8th. Maybe the one left will be made Branch leader by default?
DeleteI wonder why anyone claims that patriotism is a virtue?
ReplyDeleteAs I'm on a Tim Rice musical spree :
Delete"Let man's petty nations tear themselves apart
My land's only borders lie around my heart"
That could almost have been Jim Murphy's epiphany when he heard that patriotism wasn't working with the focus groups.
Murphy is clearly preparing for the coming infighting and chaos about to wrack 'scottish' Labour. He's understandably terrified he's going to be the fall guy. Just like Lamont and Iain Gray were.
ReplyDeleteAlmost as entertaining is the absurd shrieking hysteria from the right-wing tabloids as they still don't seem able to grasp the fact that, not only did Nicola win the debates, but she's far more popular than the cowardly twit Cameron, little Ed and calamity Clegg. That's across the UK keep in mind, not just scotland.
The lunatic fearmongering over what Nicola and the SNP would do - if democratically elected with enough MPs to make a difference - hasn't made a jot of difference to our popularity all these weeks their hysteria has already been at ear-splitting levels.
So it's somewhat unlikely to make a blind bit of difference now with the coward Cameron reduced to shrieking witlessly about Nicola and the SNP in tandem with idiotic newspapers who simply don't have a fraction of the influence they did 20 years ago.
Doesn't matter if the twats in the Mail, Sun,Torygraph etc. turn the scaremongering up to 11, they are about as trusted as the corrupt westminster establishment they are cheerleading for. We are also well used to winning elections without the 'support' of the overwhelmingly unionist press and media.
No matter how the out of touch westminster bubble idiots try to spin things the cold hard facts of over 105,000 SNP members, a ground campaign that is already far ahead of what the unpopular westminster parties are managing and the obvious popularity of Nicola and the SNP is going to count for just a touch more at the ballot box than their hysterical fearmongering. ;-)
Not long to go now folks so you haven't much time left to help out in a local campaign with a donation, a spot of leafleting, helping at an SNP shop or on a stall etc. It's getting really busy now and the reception we are getting from the public is excellent. Admittedly the great weather is also helping so it's more often than not a carnival atmosphere at stalls and events. Can't really say the same about some of the derisory attempts from Labour, the lib dems and the tories. It's been two guys and a dug for them. If even that at times. ;-)
I heard that SNPs membership levels were now at 115,000. That will be more BBC presenters consigned to the straight jackets and padded cells.
DeleteWhere did you hear that? I've heard nothing official since the 105,000 figure was given out.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if even the BBC Jocklands efforts to orchestrate a tactical voting campaign will help get Jim any love though. Not with Prof Curtice telling the Jockland Radio paymasters that tactical voting was an utter waste of time since the SNP were so far ahead. Ooops Prof that wasn't what they wanted to hear.
ReplyDeleteSNP narrowly ahead in Edinburgh South, fair way ahead in North and Leith.
ReplyDeleteI've got Dumfries Galloway and Edi South down as the toughest two gains for SLAB - could be an extinction level event.
*gains for SNP from SLAB
DeleteI keep telling myself that if SLab is virtually wiped out then I can live with Mundell hanging on as my MP. But you know, I don't really want to....
DeleteI feel your pain.
DeleteImagine if Dumfries and Galloway have the last Unionist MP in Scotland.
However, I think you will be ok - another few weeks of Britnat MSM racism will turn every Scottish seat over to the SNP.
Now everything looks to be fine :)
ReplyDelete