Wednesday, April 10, 2024

Bombshell Redfield & Wilton poll shows a clear majority for independence, but the SNP slip to second place in YouGov poll, posing the question for SNP members: is factional Humza rule REALLY worth losing the general election for?

It's been an ongoing frustration that although the monthly Redfield & Wilton polls tend to show a high Yes vote in the upper 40s, it's been a long time since they've shown an outright lead for Yes.  I had to check back to see when it last happened, and it was the autumn of 2022, so a year and a half ago.  It's finally happened again.

Should Scotland be an independent country? (Redfield & Wilton)

Yes 51% (+3)
No 49% (-3)

It may be, of course, that in a monthly poll that typically shows Yes in the high 40s, you're bound to eventually get one putting Yes in the low 50s sooner or later due to normal sampling variation.  So the breakthrough may not be real - we'll have to wait and see what next month's poll brings.  But even taking into account the standard margin of error, support for independence must at the very least be in the upper 40s, which means it's held up extraordinarily well as the SNP's own vote has slipped back.

And by goodness have the SNP slipped back.  Full-scale Scottish polls from YouGov are rarer than the monthly Redfield & Wilton polls, and so attract more interest when they pop up - and the new one is a landmark because it shows the SNP in second place in Westminster voting intentions for the first time since the independence referendum a decade ago.

Scottish voting intentions for the next UK general election (YouGov):

Labour 33% (+1)
SNP 31% (-2)
Conservatives 14% (-6)
Reform UK 7% (+5)
Liberal Democrats 7% (+2)
Greens 5% (-)

Seats projection (with changes from 2019 general election): Labour 28 (+27), SNP 18 (-30), Conservatives 6 (-), Liberal Democrats 5 (+1)

I've heard it suggested recently that at least Humza Yousaf has steadied the ship for the SNP and things haven't been getting any worse.  These numbers would perhaps suggest that isn't true.  The percentage comparisons are with the previous YouGov poll, which was conducted last October when Yousaf had already been in harness for six or seven months.  So it looks as if things have got signficantly worse since then.  The painful truth for SNP members is that it just doesn't seem to be working with Yousaf as leader, and it may well be that if defeat is to be averted, the leadership problem will have to be addressed before the general election.  Ideally that means a change of leader (bearing in mind that unlike the Tories, the SNP are blessed with a popular alternative leader), but at the very least it means putting an end to the factional rule that has been going on since the leadership election, by bringing Kate Forbes and her key allies back into the heart of government.

As I've noted before, if you're more loyal to your faction than you are to your party or your movement, that tends to imply you think you have the luxury of guaranteed power.  Those days are over, but the psychology of Humza's followers may not have caught up with that reality yet - which could prove deadly.

Although YouGov are showing a modest No lead on the independence question, they nevertheless are in agreement with Redfield & Wilton that the trend on independence support seems to be completely unaffected by the slump in the SNP vote.

Should Scotland be an independent country? (YouGov)

Yes 47% (-)
No 53% (-)

So there are still more than enough independence supporters out there to theoretically win a first-past-the-post election for the SNP, but it ought to be a statement of the obvious that this will depend on the SNP making the election about independence and actually giving Yes supporters something to vote for.  At the moment, perversely, they seem to think doing the complete opposite of that is the key to victory, and it's therefore perhaps unsurprising that YouGov are showing the SNP currently have the backing of just 56% of people who voted Yes in 2014, compared with 21% for Labour.

Now, here's a question which I'm not claiming to know the answer to.  Why do Redfield & Wilton self-fund a full-scale Scottish poll every single month even though they have no obvious Scottish connections and it must cost them a small fortune each year?  Is there a story behind the funding of these polls that we're not aware of, and could there be a partisan agenda at play?  One possible clue is in the nature of the write-ups that Redfield & Wilton provide on their website, and which as I've pointed out before seem to have a distinct unionist slant.  Month after month, they make a song and dance about the fact that independence trails behind one or two bread-and-butter issues such as health when Scottish voters are asked what is most important to them, even though that is completely normal and has been the case in pretty much every poll since time immemorial.

But this month Redfield & Wilton have dropped all subtlety.  They've mentioned the outright lead for Yes as an afterthought at the end of their long write-up, as if it's only a little curiosity of marginal interest, whereas in fact it's self-evidently and by some distance the most newsworthy part of the whole poll.  What's going on, guys?  What's the game?

124 comments:

  1. Both polls through electoral calculus show the SNP on only 18 seats.

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    1. That is concerning.

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    2. Plenty of time to mend their pettifogging ways.

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    3. 18 seats would be our fourth best ever result. What a triumph for Hanzala.

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    4. Absolutely. Onwards and downwards with Humza! 😁

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  2. Which gives these:

    Airdrie and Shotts LAB gain from SNP Neil Gray
    Bathgate and Linlithgow LAB gain from SNP Martyn Day
    Caithness Sutherland and Easter Ross LIB gain from SNP Unknown (changed seat)
    Coatbridge and Bellshill LAB gain from SNP Steven Bonnar
    Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy Fife LAB gain from SNP Neale Hanvey
    Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch LAB gain from SNP Stuart McDonald
    Dunbartonshire West LAB gain from SNP Martin Docherty
    Dunfermline and Dollar LAB gain from SNP Douglas Chapman
    East Kilbride and Strathaven LAB gain from SNP Lisa Cameron
    Edinburgh East and Musselburgh LAB gain from SNP Tommy Sheppard
    Edinburgh North and Leith LAB gain from SNP Deidre Brock
    Fife North East LIB gain from SNP Unknown (changed seat)
    Glasgow East LAB gain from SNP David Linden
    Glasgow North LAB gain from SNP Patrick Grady
    Glasgow North East LAB gain from SNP Anne McLaughlin
    Glasgow South LAB gain from SNP Stewart McDonald
    Glasgow South West LAB gain from SNP Chris Stephens
    Glasgow West LAB gain from SNP Carol Monaghan
    Glenrothes and Mid Fife LAB gain from SNP Peter Grant
    Hamilton and Clyde Valley LAB gain from SNP Angela Crawley
    Inverclyde and Renfrewshire West LAB gain from SNP Ronnie Cowan
    Livingston LAB gain from SNP Hannah Bardell
    Lothian East LAB gain from SNP Kenny MacAskill
    Mid Dunbartonshire LIB gain from SNP Amy Callaghan
    Midlothian Edinburgh area LAB gain from SNP Owen Thompson
    Motherwell, Wishaw and Carluke LAB gain from SNP Marion Fellows
    Na h-Eileanan An Iar (Western Isles) LAB gain from SNP Angus MacNeil
    Paisley and Renfrewshire North LAB gain from SNP Gavin Newlands
    Paisley and Renfrewshire South LAB gain from SNP Mhairi Black
    Rutherglen LAB gain from SNP Margaret Ferrier

    Yes, I know.

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    1. I claim the prize for spotting the obvious deliberate errors - Lab gain from SNP Kenny MacAskill and Lab gain from SNP Neale Hanvey. No comfort for me in this list as I was wanting to see Oswald getting her jotters for the second time in East Ren. If you must have somebody in the House of Horrors at least vote for a party that supports independence - Alba.

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    2. Nope, General Election results/predictions are always published in comparison to the previous GE result, and MacAskill and Hanvey were both elected as SNP, as was Lisa Cameron. That's why Rutherglen is also listed as a Labour gain from SNP even though they already gained it at a by-election.

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    3. Interesting that none of the Aberdeen seats are predicted to be lost.

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    4. North East Fife is already held by Wendy Chamberlain (Liberal Democrat) as of the GE in December 2019. Previously it was SNP, by a handful of votes.

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    5. And what good has a single one of those names that are still SNP MPs done for Scotland?

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    6. Westend Mick - thanks but I knew that but in reality Hanvey campaigned and was elected as an independent even though it may have stated SNP on the ballot paper. Vote Alba or ISP - if they stand in your constituency - at least vote for a party that wants independence like the SNP used to but is now a devolutionalist party which means it isnae interested in independence.
      Personally, I find it hard to believe that the SNP could be so incompetent at increasing support for independence that I believe there are many in the SNP leadership who are deliberately against independence.

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    7. I also posted that list of SNP MPs who'd go if the two polls happened and the SNP only had 18 seats on WGD -
      April 10, 2024 at 10:03 pm - but I see it has been deleted along with the attack after. Luckily I took a wayback of it last night:

      https://web.archive.org/web/20240410220807/https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2024/04/09/vote-tory-vote-flag-shagger-vote-labour-vote-flag-shagger/

      Just find "Neil Gray" for instance.

      Fingers in the ears and "LA LA LA" only, allowed on WGD. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated, we are the Borg!

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    8. I posted it there again, just in case it was deleted by mistake.

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  3. Ironic that indy support goes so high, yet Scotland wants to elect unionist parties. May depend a lot on indy supporters not voting though. I am torn between staying at home , or voting for a party who are rudderless. Really because the SNP have abandoned me.

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    1. Unfortunately the SNP are now a unionist party in all but name. Their commitment to devolution is as rigid as it is to their salaries at Holyrood. Most of them would be out on their well-upholstered backsides in an independent Scotland.

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    2. Don't stay at home, unless you have a postal vote, at least spoil your ballot to try to send a message to the deif SNP.

      https://peterabell.scot/2024/04/09/wasted-vote/

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    3. Don't stay at home, don't spoil your ballot, just vote. And don't give the oxygen of publicity to Peter A Bell either, although I'll let you away with it just this once.

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    4. Just laziness - saved me posting why it's better to spoil rather than abstain, not to try to convince people not to vote.

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    5. Yi2 -showing your true colours as an underminer. Must mean the snp and independence are doing better than thought.

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    6. Spoiling your ballot is a bad idea. Just vote for you you think would be best.

      I'm seriously considering voting SNP for Westminster and the Scottish Parliament, but giving my second vote to Alba.

      The SNP needs to realise that the main reason they are in power is because we want independence and we are serious.

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    7. I hope the SNP pay attention to their dropping support in the polls, the criticism including from their own members, MSPs and MPs, including from activists on Yousaf's recent road tour as covered by the National. And the campaigns to spoil the vote in a sensible fashion. And mend their foolish ways.

      Perhaps it's all part of their incredibly clever strategy and we'll all applaud and clap like seals as they pull the rabbit out of the bag just before the actual election. Arf arf! Happy clappy!

      Anyways, the lottery is on for Saturday thank goodness. Didn't win last night :-(

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    8. "Spoiling your ballot is a bad idea. Just vote for you you think would be best."

      Spoiling your ballot is a better idea than not turning up at all. Voting is a habit, let's ensure people continue the habit even if they can't thole any of the candidates!

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    9. I am torn between staying at home , or voting for a party who are rudderless.

      If you have Alba, ISP or whoever standing in your constituency, why not vote for them? At least you'll be registering a pro-independence vote

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  4. The problem is people don't like the SNP anymore, it's hard to win that back even if they went strong on independence. It's the SNP brand which is tarnished

    potential corruption
    real arrests
    a feeling they've run out of steam, change needed
    ferries
    Marine areas had a huge influence on changing people's mind in our heartlands
    NHS
    a feeling they're a bit gimmicky rather than real politics

    all things i've heard or surmised from my peer group who are largely pro-independence and ambivalent/turned off SNP.

    I personally would still give SNP my vote as I'm an independence first kind of guy but enough people don't see independence on the horizon, therefore are not keen to give the SNP another chance. By being on the horizon, that doesn't actually mean whether SNP go strong on independence or not. That's a linked but separate issue. Many more people than 50,000 which is the usual count, would support a socialist country but don't vote socialist party as it's not seen as a realistic achievement in the near future. See similar with independence even though it could be a majority. People don't see it as a near future thing. I don't think Yousaf is great but changing leader I think will have limited impact. In fact, could have a detrimental impact as the new leader would be tarnished from the get go rather than picking up the pieces.

    Abhainn

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  5. And that's us at our nadir: with an utterly useless British-minded SNP at the fag end of a Tory government about to face a 1997-smashing from Labour.

    How well placed we are to win when the tide turns against Starmer! But we need the right leader, not another Nicophant from the B-team.

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  6. Voter psychology in this matter may be quite simple:
    1. We loathe and despise the tories;
    2. Liberals are irrelevant;
    3. It's a UK election and the SNP can't form a UK government;
    4. We favour indepedendence but the SNP is vague on it;
    5.Labour is a likely winner and will probably be a bit less bad than the tories....🙄🥴😬
    All this aggravated by being scunnered by the gender politics stooshie.
    Personally, I've come to despise the SNP as just another careerist blob but I'll vote for them as the only viable alternative to the two shades of toryism offered by the 'main' parties.

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  7. Here's my argument for abstaining instead of ballot spoiling:

    Anyone with memory of pre-indyref politics will remember the awful turn-out figures we used to have in Scotland. A great many Scots stood aside from the political process entirely, as nothing was on offer for them. Red Tory/Blue Tory?

    Independence inspired almost everyone in 2014—for *and* against!—sending turnout sky high. More Scots became politically engaged. The SNP were lifted to total dominance. And that's when they got complacent and soon enough mistook our votes for personal support, instead of passion for an independent nation.

    When turnout slumps as scunnered Yessers abandon the SNP, the media will report it, the commentators will obsess over it, and it will get through to the SNP membership: the crucial audience who must be convinced to return to Independence.

    When was the last time you heard the media reporting on spoiled ballots?

    I have been right there when they were being counted, in the Edinburgh count in 2003. Spoiled ballots are gathered together and interested parties can inspect them visually, one by one. You are not allowed to touch: a count official holds each ballot paper up for you to look at. When I was there: only 2 parties bothered to participate. The most memorable was the Tory: a jolly, posh, tweed wearing chappy who looked like he'd just stepped out of his Land Rover. I remember him because he GUFFAWED! over every scrawled ballot paper with sweary diatribes about the candidates and the global conspiracies controlling them. Even his laughter was posh.

    Many spoiled ballots are like that. Some folk just show up to cram as much handwriting all over the thing as they can squeeze, and it'll be as nutty as you think. Even checking a regular spoiled ballot pile takes takes a while, especially when you have an enthusiast like that guy.

    Really, all the parties are doing is trying to squeeze an extra vote or two from the majority of the spoiled ballots which have a poorly marked "X"… or two. The actual writing on them is not recorded, and no one is required to read it. Even participation in the inspection is voluntary and poorly attended.

    Yet spoiled ballots do count as votes for the turn out figures.

    A spoiled ballot is the most invisible thing of all in politics. I've literally voted in every election since I turned voting age in 1999, so this coming general will (unless an inspiring candidate stands here…) be my first ever abstention. But at least my absence will be recorded in the decreased turn-out figure. If I showed up, and wrote on my ballot, I wouldn't even count as scunnered.

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    1. The other guy, as I remember, was a Lib Dem who stayed silent throughout all this comment reading, but eye-rolled like you would not believe at this arrogant Tory slowing things down and wasting the counting staff's time. The traditional rôle for a Liberal.

      SNP? Labour? Nope. No interest.

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    2. Piffle and balderdash!

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    3. Abstaining is effectively gifting to the britnats. Maybe this is what all the huffing and puffing with disinformation is about. Me, I want Independence for better or worse. No way am I giving kudos to the britnats.

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    4. Anon at 12.08pm - vote SNP you are giving kudos to the Britnats.

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    5. Anon at 12:08, you are 100% correct, despite what ifs says.

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    6. Anon at 8.05pm is the half- wit ( and I'm being generous) Britnat KC.

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  8. I understand peoples frustration with the SNP, but sooner or later we’re all going to have to get behind them, as they are the only party that can realistically take us to independence.
    I’m sure things will change for the better soon, possibly with a change of leader after the GE, if the results are as bad as predicted for the SNP.
    What I don’t understand is people talking about abstaining or spoiling ballot papers. At least vote for God’s sake. If you don’t vote you’ve no right to complain!
    At least a vote for Alba would be seen a pro Indy vote, whereas an abstention or spoiled ballot paper is effectively a vote for the union! Ask yourselves, what’s it going to look like if the pro Indy share of the vote is say just over 30%? Certainly asking Starmer for a section 30 would be out of the question!

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    1. According to the polls there is a significant gap between the numbers supporting independence and the numbers supporting the SNP. It's up to the SNP to close that gap and pursuing unpopular policies like gender self-id and hate crime nonsense is actually widening it. I won't vote for the SNP in its current form come what may so, in the absence of an Alba/ISP candidate, I'm left with no alternative but to spoil or abstain. It's a sad state of affairs that the last ten years of SNP government have brought us too.

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    2. 'To' (bloody predictive text)😁

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    3. I pretty much agree with this, at the end of the day you have to vote SNP really to get independence. There isn't a credible alternative and the other options are worse options.

      That's an indictment probably on the Scottish population as much as the SNP. We basically support independence but we can't be bothered in enough numbers to force the issue, or force the leaders to force the issue. I'm not talking about the die hards on this page, i'm talking about the material bloc of people are too busy with cost of living issues and cynical of politicians. You can't really blame them but it shows something about us. On the other hand, the fact SNP is weak and indy is relatively on par with Unionism shows it's a defining topic for years to come. That's a positive.

      I do wonder though if nationalism will become the new christianity, in that a culture, a people are no longer really considered an important polity and seen a bit archaic. I'm a left of centre, scottish nationalist but I think europe is going through an identity crisis which I'm not sure will make nationalism seem positive. SNP have been agile at being a modern nationalism and need to keep this in mind to stay relevant. The demographic change of youthful yes supporters has to be considered in line with a much changing ethnicity here. Edinburgh and Glasgow have changed somewhat in the last ten years.

      Abhainn

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    4. Jeff - it is staggering that anyone, you or Yousaf even considers begging again for (sec 30 ) the basic right of self determination. No wonder we are still a colony.

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    5. IFS, how many times do you need telling Scotland ain’t a colony?

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    6. If nothing changes , the pro Indy vote at UKGE 2024 will be 2% to 5%.SNP can't be viewed as a vote for Indy, as SNP are not offering it. Some Indy folk will vote devolutionist London Labour , some Indy folk might vote for devolutionist SNP. But either option produces the same result as both promise to do nothing to progress Indy. ALBA , ISP and Independents are the only votes you can count as Indy votes.

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    7. KC at 2.06pm - how many times do you need to be told to explain your reasoning? You ain't got any reasoning have you KC - not even a half - wit.

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    8. If you don’t vote you’ve no right to complain!

      By this daft logic, if you do vote and the party you voted for wins, you've no right to complain about them

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  9. The biggest ‘story’ of the 2007 Scottish/Holyrood elections reported by the media was the proportion of spoilt ballots (rather than the first SNP victory).

    Spoilt ballots constituted 2.9% and 4.1% of the constituency and regional votes, respectively. (See 2007 Scottish Parliament Election: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Scottish_Parliament_election, section High number of rejected votes).

    Brian Taylor of the BBC couldn’t talk about anything else during his commentary as the results came in and the printed media were no different. (See Guardian, "Spoilt Votes Tally Could Be 140000": https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/may/09/scotland.devolution).

    For comparison at other Scottish elections the proportion of spoiled constituency and regional votes, respectively, were as follows:

    1999: 0.30%, 0.30%
    2003: 0.66%, 0.65%
    2011: 0.30%, 0.30%
    2016: 0.40%, 0.20%
    2021: 0.37%, 0.19%

    So spoilt ballots at elections does make news.

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    1. from memory, was this not put down to voter confusion and a new counting system or something?

      It wasn't about a protest, as far as I recall?

      Abhainn

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    2. Jeff McLean at 9:22, excellent post well said.

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    3. from memory, was this not put down to voter confusion and a new counting system or something?

      It was the same day as the first STV local election and at that point folk were still getting used to the Holyrood system. I'm surprised spoiled ballots were as low as 4.1%

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    4. Anonymous @ 11.15AM and Keaton @ 7.55PM:

      You are both correct - it was voter confusion with the STV based local elections taking place on the same day.

      But it got noticed even though the incidence of spoilt ballots was only 2.9% (constituency) and 4.1% (region) ...

      ... which is the point.

      Now, imagine if the spoilt ballot rate was 7.5%-10% - the press and media in general would have a field day and the publicity would be massive.

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  10. FatherTedCrilly-

    But who could possibly be the new leader that could turn this around ? Kate Forbes has allready stated that she is a continuity gal, so a vote for her would be out of the frying pan into the fire, she certainly didnt inspire any hope for independence during the leadership debate, the only person who did was basically ignored by the party and she saw the writing on the wall and left for Alba, doesnt that say it all ?, the party in its present form are a forlorn hope for our independence sadly.

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  11. It is clear a vote for The Greens, ALBA is wasted, right or wrong in the GE.

    It is the system we have to put up with. SNP and only SNP is the vote for the General election or you gift it an election and the britnat disdain of Scotland to the end of this decade.
    I would urge the SNP to place independence on the ballot paper. Might even attract those who haven’t voted since 2014 to reconsider.

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  12. Just seeing the polls Re Reform UK

    They're on 7% in Scotland apparently. While Alba wasn't asked in the poll?

    I think reform is a largely online phenomenon but cannot believe it's gathered that figure in Scotland. That's lib dem levels.

    Something afoot there.

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  13. WGD numpty Capella says this :- " Do any current SNP members know what the election strategy is? I thought it was going to be a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence, no ifs no buts, page one line one etc. Now it appears to be to get rid of the Tories. Is this a change of policy after the conference or is it " strategic ambiguity " designed to confuse the opposition? It certainly confuses me.

    I would of course vote SNP anyway because I want independence and there is no credible alternative."

    So Capella is not sure the SNP are for independence but she will vote for them anyway.

    And that in a nutshell is the problem. The SNP have captured so many people who want independence and they know they will keep them as long as they do NOT deliver independence. Capella is on the SNP hook. She knows they ain't trustworthy but feels she has no other option. If you follow Capella you will be in the same position in 10 years time. The SNP need to change back to what they were before or die and that won't happen if you keep voting for them.

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    1. Capella's OK, mind of her own, not one of the half dozen nodding dugs.

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    2. Anon at 1.27pm - So Capella is not sure the SNP are for independence but she will vote for them anyway. She is on the SNP hook.

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    3. A lot of people are in the same position. Probably most of that 31% or 32% current support, and some of the don't knows. There were SNP activists on Yousaf's campaign trail who were unhappy but were still activists. She at least questions the strategy - and other things.

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  14. I think that's a good point, IfS. As can be seen from some of the commenters on here, many are hanging on to the SNP for grim death in the hope of independence which is exactly why the SNP keep dangling that carrot in front of them. This is the policy which they believe will keep them in their seats ad nauseum as long as they don't actually deliver on it. It's nothing more than a cynical exploitation of their own support base.

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    1. Anon at 2.10pm - " a cynical exploitation of their own support base" Exactly and that's why I have often called Sturgeon's gang parasites on the yes movement.

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  15. It should depend on whether the SNP candidate is strongly pro independence, or just one of the continuity blob. For example, I would vote for Joanna Cherry or Stephen Flynn. I would not vote for Kirsten Oswald or Alyn Smith.

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  16. What is this nonsense of putting Independence, or For independence on the ballot paper it is meaningless unless you declare the election a de facto referendum and put appropriate words at the top of your manifesto.

    One minute SNP numpties are saying everyone knows the SNP is for independence so a vote for the SNP is always for independence now we are getting this nonsense. Nicophants are prone to forgetting Sturgeon has said in the past a vote for the SNP is NOT a vote for independence. She also ran election campaigns on STOP BREXIT. Aye stop it for the UK along with her pal Alistair Campbell. The policy should have been let England have their Brexit but we are having a vote to end the UK and stay in the EU. After 10 years of this stuff it is incredible people still think Sturgeon's gang have any intention of delivering independence. They are all nice and cosy in Holyrood and Westminster.

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    1. KC at 4.38pm - is that right is it. You make all these assertions KC but you cannae back it up with any facts or reasons. You KC are a Britnat half- wit.

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    2. IFS- nobody will vote for you. You have nothing to offer any genuine supporter of Independence.

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    3. Anon at 10.36Pm - what an utter 🤡.I don't ask anybody to vote for me. I offer an opinion . You provide nothing WGD numpty.

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    4. Ifs, who is this KC you keep mentioning?

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  17. You could call the concept a 'bogus referendum' seeing as elections and referendums are totally different things. I would call it a 'single issue election campaign'. That would be honest and wouldn't confuse people who haven't had a classical education and people who don't know the difference between a referendum and an election. A moot point though - nobody's going to run a single issue election campaign. It was just another daft idea from Sturgeon inc.

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    1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1918_Irish_general_election

      "... the election was seen as a landslide victory for Sinn Féin."

      After the Indy Ref the Irish thought that Scotland had no balls.

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  18. I wonder if the SNP will come up with a better election message than the 'vote Labour' one they exude atm? After a decade, 'independence' is stale and boring (just like the SNP minus the incompetence), and the few people that think it is the most important thing in the world have gone to Alba, so I doubt they will be punting that much. If it's 'stronger for Scotland' I may loose the will to breathe.

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  19. And from the land of Wynken, Blynken, and Nod comes an electoral calculus prediction of 40 seats for the SNP with a "poll of polls" for the SNP of 39.8%. Stewart Hosie will be so pleased.

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    1. I don't know why Scottish Skier has this psychological need to hype up the SNP's electoral prospects to such an extent, even though it can only do harm when they fall short. He did it with Rutherglen too.

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    2. He's set himself up as some sort of expert on polls but, as with the rest of his claims of expertise, it has no basis in fact. He was deluded when he posted on here and he's deluded now - a true disciple of the cult of St Nicola.

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  20. Sadly the SNP is a spent force. Unpopular with voters the FTP Westminster system will see them perish.

    The SNP vote is now headed towards half what the support for independence is.

    Why it ended up like this is the question folks need to ask.

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  21. Article by fellow independence supporter Neil Mackay in today’s Herald.

    “Pro-Indy parties will tear the Yes movement to bits”

    An excellent article, well worth a read.

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    1. "Infighting between the Greens and SNP only deepens the sense of disarray, and any sign of nationalist civil war will hasten oblivion."

      Actually it makes both parties more interesting - and normal.

      The whole thing is probably staged.

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    2. Only Brit nats read the herald.

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    3. And only Brit Nats write for it. If Neil Mackay is supposed to be an independence supporter, and if he's supposed to want independence supporters to stop tearing each other to bits, perhaps he could stop tearing independence supporters to bits, which is what he's been doing for years.

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  22. Independence supporter my Aunt Fanny! Alba hater certainly but that's not the same thing.

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    1. It's pretty much the opposite in fact.

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  23. The SNP propagandist WGD Scottish Skier is still punting the tired old - the SNP have a secret plan - and they have to keep it secret because we cannae tell you because it is a secret but the great minds in the SNP may be planning a surprise de facto referendum. Skier says they are waiting to the last moment to announce a de facto ( so it's not a secret then Skier ). Amazing that any body believes this stuff. Remember posters used to say this for many years that Sturgeon had a secret plan for independence.
    Aye it turned out the plan was to do the Britnats bidding and scupper a referendum. 9 years of Sturgeon have turned the SNP in to a basket case and pissed off many voters in Scotland. But but but Nicola has great communication skills the nicophants would cry. But but but Nicola was a great leader the nicophants would cry. But but but Nicola's husband Peter wouldn't lie about membership numbers the nicophants would cry. But but but Nicola's husband Peter wouldn't buy a motor home and a fancy car using Indyref funds the nicophants would cry.

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    1. Funny way to spell "phosphates".

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    2. IIS , Your Nicola fixation may not be treatable despite the fact she is no longer FM or leader of the snp. Do you need help?

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    3. Need help spelling? Three letters remember - IFS.🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

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    4. Ian Funcan Smith?

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    5. Anon at 1:17, aye you’d think he’d change the record.

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    6. I wish she would think up some new phrases to replace her 'nicophants', 'WGD numpty' and 'Blowhard Blackford', stunningly witty though they are and she undoubtedly is.

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    7. A she? Are your sure?

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    8. Anon at 9.13am - are we independent - no - you change your record WGD numpty.

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    9. They don't like being called Nicophants because that's what they are. You're getting under their skin, IFS. Keep up the good work.👍

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    10. IFS, no we’re not independent but we will be one day. Realistically not in our lifetimes, but one day.

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    11. IFS actually has someone who agrees with him/her😁

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    12. There are plenty on here who agree with him whereas most of his critics appear only to agree with themselves.

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    13. I prefer IfS contributions to the vapid one-line 'put downs' from the assorted non-entities who criticise him.

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    14. Anon at 12.38pm - "one day " as in one day never arrives - you can shove your one day.

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  24. Whatever the UK GE result it is guaranteed that the Salmond haters will say Yousaf got a better result than Salmond ever got therefore it is a success. These sort of people will NEVER deliver independence because their priority is party political success at elections - full stop.

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    1. We all have to hope the SNP do better than is being predicted.
      I’m an optimist, and have a feeling they may surprise on the upside.

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    2. The only way they're going to do that is with a de facto referendum, and a one page manifesto with that in it.

      Otherwise it will be like 2017 for them but a lot worse as it's Labour not Tories going for broke. I doubt it'll be as bad as 2010 with 19.9% of the vote, but their problem is that even with 28% of the vote they'd probably be down to single figures. And they're only 3% or 4% above that.

      They need to give us a reason to vote for them, rather than "Independence is dead without us". At the moment it's dead with them.

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    3. Like this for example:

      https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?type=scotland&SCOTCON=17&SCOTLAB=38&SCOTLIB=7&SCOTNAT=28&SCOTReform=5&SCOTGreen=2&display=AllChanged&regorseat=%28none%29&boundary=2019nbbase

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  25. This yougov poll is clearly a farce for the unionist media, there is no way the conservatives would keep all 6 seats with a 7 percent split of votes to Reform

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    1. I’m quietly confident of the Tories holding the constituency I’m in😁

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    2. KC at 8.55am - that would be Surrey, England.

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    3. Yes there is. It is called tactical voting.

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  26. The more I think about Neil Mackay’s article yesterday the more I think he makes a very serious point.
    All Indy supporters should think carefully in the lead up to the GE. Let’s not tear the Yes movement apart.

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    1. Anon at 9.30am says " Lets not tear the Yes movement apart." Sturgeon's gang did that years ago.

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    2. IFS, predictable response!

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    3. Anon at 2.44pm - a consistent and accurate response actually.

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    4. IFS - I’d be interested to know what your road map is to achieving independence ? e.g. which party to vote for? What specific action should that party take to attain that goal?

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    5. Anon 2:44 A two word non-response. What's the point of commenting when you have nothing to say?

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    6. Anon at 3:12, ask ifs what was the point of his comment at 2:52 !!!

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    7. He was replying to the comment at 2:44 as he said! Are you an imbecile?

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    8. I think you are😁

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    9. Ooh, touché (or should that be touchy)?

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  27. There won't be any point to the indy movement at all at this rate. Cure: (1) SNP gets its house and its priorities in order, and becomes part of the solution not (as at present) part of the problem; & (2) Scottish Greens disband, the whole lot of them emigrating to New Zealand or someplace.

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  28. IFS has no purpose other than to undermine the independence movement.

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    Replies
    1. And what is your purpose here? Because at 2:44,3:45 and now skulking down here at 4:02, you haven't said anything to promote independence.

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    2. Anon at 4.02pm - what is your rational for that assertion. Go argue your case or just f*****f back to WGD. I have argued my case that Sturgeon's gang and the thick numpties that support her have undermined independence. Let's hear your case. If not you are like that other troll the Britnat KC - you are a half- wit who cannae put togther any coherent paragraphs.

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    3. IFS is a Tory fake

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    4. Anon at 7.53pm - I wouldnae like you being my lawyer in court if that's you arguing your case. Silly assertions like yours anon are worthless and only prove you are indeed a half- wit.

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  29. During my decades campaigning for Labour (which ended in '20 after the party finally left democratic socialism behind), the two polling companies we found to be the most reliable were MORI (Ipsos-Mori) and ICM.

    Have seen polling from Mori, but haven't seen ICM poll anything political for a while. James will correct me, but I understand both Mori and ICM continue(ed) to use the telephone method as opposed to on-line.

    Regards
    Michael.

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    Replies
    1. ICM have given up the ghost as far as politics is concerned, which is odd as they used to be regarded as the gold standard. Most of their Scottish polls were online, but they did sometimes do phone polls.

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  30. Polling by means of the electric telephone? Sure to yield a random sample.

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  31. Genuinely important to treat IFS with respect.

    I may not agree with him. And he is too negative in my opinion when speaking of the SNP.

    However his point of view is as valid as anyone else's and he often backs up his points with consistent and coherent reasoning as well as empirical evidence.

    It is worthwhile to listen carefully to what he has to say and respond with respect.

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  32. Well, if you could mobiles as "electric", which they are, then yes.

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    Replies
    1. Danger is if wealthy people are more likely to have an electric telephone.

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  33. Anon at 7.51am - Salmond is low in popularity because Sturgeon's gang did a number on him. Anybody who supports these people ( Sturgeon's gang) should be ashamed of themselves.

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