I don't want to jump to conclusions here, but I'm finding it very, very hard not to think that certain people in East Sussex (possibly including the police themselves) set out to make complete fools of the media last night, and succeeded. You might have seen the BBC (along with countless other media outlets) claiming that "Sussex Police said the effigies of Mr Salmond would not now be set alight", but if you look carefully at the form of words used by the police spokesperson quoted in the
Daily Record, the only assurance given was a load of patronising drivel about how Alex Salmond himself wouldn't actually be burned to death. It's little wonder that words were being chosen so carefully, because there's now compelling evidence from social media (including photographic evidence) that the organisers ignored the enormous offence they were causing, and proceeded to blow up at least one of the two effigies in exactly the way they had always planned. Not that you'd be aware of any of this from the mainstream media, even now.
Despite the controversy, Alex Salmond went up tonight. #LewesBonfire #ilovemytown
They didn't burn it, no... just stuffed it full of fireworks and blew the s*** out of it (like they always do)
see reply to other tweets. I saw it blown to smithereens with my own soft southern eyes.
Yep, blew its head clean off. Beeb reports missed the angle. Effigies are never put on bonfire, just blown up
* * *
And in case you haven't seen it yet, here is the entirely non-racist, "just-a-bit-of-harmless-fun-what-is-everyone-whingeing-about" effigy of Angela Merkel they blew the s*** out of a couple of years back. No wonder they #lovetheirtown...
Why am I not surprised.
ReplyDeleteUKIP-land
ReplyDelete'It's only a joke!' - the clarion cry of bullies called out
ReplyDeleteWonder what the attitude of Lewes police, councillors and the media would be if "for a bit of fun" the organisersagree to allowed an effigy of Mohammed, or the Queen. Bet it would be taken a bit more seroiusly. By the way definition of an effigy .....to burn or hang an image of a person, to show hatred, dislike, or contempt. Yeah just a bit if fun.
ReplyDeleteFreedom of speech only without giving offence is no freedom. Perish the day that we loose the right to offend public figures.
DeleteAnon : The offence caused by that Merkel effigy is to the German people, not to any individual public figure.
Deleteyes, I agree with your definition, which is used here
Deletehttp://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2014/11/06/no-to-burning-effigies/
this post shows there are alternatives to effigy burning, alternatives that promote jobs, tourism and culture.
One society had an effigy of the Queen in 2012, as it happens...Diamond Jubilee year. They do not discriminate - everyone in the public eye who has been topical is treated the same.
DeleteThis happens at the Fallas festival in the Valencia region of Spain, too, where many local, national and international politicians appear as 'ninots' and are burned and blown up on the final night (19th March.) In the Valencia, there seems to be little or no controversy at all about this happening - everyone enjoys it, has a laugh, and admires the humour and artistic endeavours.
What a contrast to these islands where, it seems, so many people make out that they are 'greatly offended' when in truth they have lost or perhaps never had a sense of humour!This is just a bit of satire or lampooning of those in the public eye, for heaven's sakes, along the lines of Spitting Image.
How sad it is that the spirit of 'las Fallas' /'Les Falles' is not embraced here.
dry your eyes losers :-)
ReplyDeleteBet you wish you'd thought of it when you were seig heiling on the war memorial in George Square ;)
DeleteAway fling shite at yoursel pal
DeleteGobshite
DeleteAs for through no man looser you prob not even Scottish as if you were you would know nessie efige was a dig at all Scots go back to getting a Westminster reacharound and hand inside for some punch and Judy you ignorant puppet
DeleteIt was the unionists who were "celebrating" their "win" at the war memorial !
DeleteAnother moron, when will you realise we didn't lose anything other than a corrupt, fixed referendum. Scotland 'will' be free of morons like you. There's a storm coming.
Deletetosser
Deletenectar ;-)
DeleteWe WILL be free...we will have the finances to be stable...see how long Westminster survives without our oil! See who's laughing then!!!!
DeleteLewes - The Land That Time Forgot
ReplyDeleteSpeaking from Northern England, I'd like to take this opportunity to disown this fascistic Southern rabble. I'd like to have seen a yes vote in Scotland. Perhaps we in the North of England may get our freedom from this shit someday. Don't give up, Caledonia.
ReplyDeleteThank you and respect. It's good to know people realise we want rid of Westminster rule not English people. I know most of Britain want rid of them too and can only hope one day we all win.
DeleteRespect to our friends in England, and there are many who are 'aware' of the corruption in Westminster. Thank you for your support.
DeleteThank you for this post as this fight is being portrayed as anti English and that is sisters not true to be fair north of England is my fav place to visit across the border i still see the English Welsh and brush people as my brothers and sisters all from this i want is control of our destiny instead of control of a system that clearly don't work for the people as we can afford so much for war but can't feed the people ny friends must use foodbanks as the council will only pay half his rent so his jobseekers allowance had to pay other half if rent he is left with 80 pound a month to pay elec gas and food for a month plus get bus to interviews and sign on my mate has worked all his life paying tax ni and everything else we have thrown at us its a farce but its not a one off story its only too common independence is only way for us to take back out country and we will fight on until its ours thanks again for your support i hope you guys all the support from Scotland and say down with Westminster for us all
DeleteGet lost......no true Englishman would side with the SNP who supported the Nazis during WW2.
DeleteGet you facts from somewhere other than Britain Fist. As they're right wing and right wing is exactly what the Nazi party was.
DeleteIn May 1941, during World War II, Donaldson's home was raided by police who suspected him, and a number of other SNP figures, of "subversive activities", due to their support for the Scottish Neutrality League.
Neutrality meaning they wanted no part in a war for freedom abroad when they themselves had no freedom in their own land.
Very Sad...that we are told to see it as fun...what example are we giving to the children
ReplyDeleteOf course, we have for years been told to "stop whiiiiiinink, it's justa birroffun. you dontwanna takeyiursef so seriously myte. But of course, once the birroffun has south eastern wankers - birroffun there- it THEN becomes offensive, racist and generally something for which we deserve to be burned for. Aye, Thank God for the south east.
ReplyDeleteC'mon, gie them a break. It's the only social event of their entire year and Lewes is a very, very boring place to have to exist in.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what the outcry would be if Dundee chose to burn a giant Union flag?
ReplyDeleteYou know, in a satire kind of way?
Satire by burning happens ALL the time.
If people could have taken the classy Salmond approach to this it could have been a handy recruiting tool for our cause.
ReplyDeleteAs it is, we've been made to look like those bams who complained about Rickshaw Man's piece of genius political theatre with HE'S COMPARING DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED MPS TO DARTH VADER!! THAT'S OFFENSIVE, THAT IS!!
A question for the people posting yesterday about how "offensive" these effigies are:
If a Swastika on a Jewish gravestone is, say, 8/10 on the offensiveness scale, and ridiculing someone's disability to their face is 9/10, then just how offended were you yesterday?
I suspect few people from yesterday will reply to this.
What's done yesterday is done. We can't undo all those ridiculous complaints to the police.
What we can do, however, is keep the heid the next time something like this happens and calmly and smilingly use it as a recruiting tool. Yesterday was an opportunity and as a movement we blew it. That someone as canny as James played a part in this was an eye opener.
Och well. He's strategically human after all.
Onwards.
I think you missed the point here.
DeleteThat they want to burn an effigy of Salmond wasn't the issue, it was the Yes logo and '45%' on the wooden spoon. They've burned and/or blown to shit all sorts of public character - of which Salmond is one (and he commented perfectly on it.)
What I think most folk found offensive was the double standards, if we in Scotland had done something comparable, the howling from the UK press would be deafening. As said though, this is passed off as a bit of fun.
Add that into the calls for reconciliation coming from supporters of the union because we Yes supporters are so 'reactionary and vile...'
I think this is what most folk commentators found offensive.
I complained yesterday and I don't rate offences on a scale. It is a subjective assessment. However, the complaints got a lot of publicity and as the man said, there is no such thing as bad publicity. Without the complaints, there would have been no TV coverage and no comment from Alex Salmond and he came out of it brilliantly. Please give the complainers (or some of us) some idea of strategy. It again has also exposed the duplicity of the South when it come to responsibility for their actions. The council denying any responsibility (it wis a big boay an he ran away) despite the use of their twitter account and facebook page, with the police giving a misleading answer. So far from being ridiculous, while accepting that you are entitled to your opinion, the complaints were a very good tactic and should be used repeatedly.
DeleteAs I suspected. People are keen to say "I AM SO OFFENDED BY THIS", but when asked just *how* offended compared to the Swastika or disability examples, they fall silent. Mostly out of embarrassment, you would hope.
DeleteOur enemies are terrified by calm, rational, festive, clearsighted, twentyfirst-century Yesserness. It just doesn't compute for them, because they're still stuck in the twentieth century at best and the seventeenth at worst. They can't get a grip on it, and therefore find it impossible to fight.
Not so yesterday's freakout over the effigies. Our enemies LOVE that kind of thing because it allows them back in their safety zone of "Look at the embittered Jocks/Nats tearing their hair out over a little joke."
I'll go further. In this battle smiling calmness is virtually ALWAYS the wise option, no matter how far our enemies go. And here's why: because that's what that strategic genius Alex S wants us to do, and you know it.
The above is also just common sense. In your own lives when does freaking out and lashing out ever help you achieve anything?
Peace, out.
in my view the effigy, however offensive it may appear to some, is not the problem (freedom of expression)
DeleteThe burning is the problem because it symbolizes hatred of the figure/ flag and therefore the people who identify with it
I think burning effigies of a Roma family in a caravan like they did a few years ago was a lot more offensive than this - well done to Alec Salmond for not taking it too seriously.
ReplyDeleteA gang of racist englush scum butn images of SCOTLAND! Not an image of a politician in a suit. But a stereotypical SCOT! Tartan, Nessie tha lot.
ReplyDeleteAnd still the cringing quislings demand that we do nothing, say nothing, know our place and let our overlords shit on us as we thank them for it.
Any body who was not offended by the Nazis in Lewes is not Scottish. A simple test that some people on this thread failed. My parents voted no. They don't like A Salmond. They'd condem this attack on Scotland as strongly as I would, just with fewer swears.
Attack on Scotland. So Alex Salmond is Scotland??
DeleteFeel sorry for you.
An effigy that includes tartan, Nessie, the words "Yes" and "45%", plus the democratically elected leader of this country, is fairly clearly supposed to represent either the whole of Scotland, or the 45% who voted Yes.
DeleteI'm having a bonfire this weekend. Going to put an effigy of David Cameron on it alongside a statue of St. George, English flags, wee morris dancers and stuff. Inviting lots of local 45ers round to watch. Borders council will be tweeting images later.
ReplyDeleteThe press will of course treat this, rightly, as harmless fun. Wouldn't be described as the 'The true [racist/vile] face of Scottish Nationalism' now would it. Oh no, never.
That in the end is what's telling here and what is increasingly obvious to the electorate. It's not the Lewes thing itself, but how the media handled it compared to how it would handle the reverse in Scotland. One just a bit of fun, the other an example of vile racist nationalism.
Given that they burned Cameron, Clegg (and I believe Brown) in previous years without any media outcry whatsoever, the facts don't seem to back up your opinion.
DeleteOk, I'll stick an effigy of Ruth Davidson on too with a union jack. That will make sure the papers leave me alone / see it as harmless fun.
DeleteAs long as you ALWAYS do it Skier, then it's OK.
DeleteYou should put Jim Murphy on as well as Ruth - we need some balance here.
Delete@Scottish_Skier
ReplyDeleteYeah, imagine if it had happened the other way around. The double standards from the BBC are as always blatant. If something in reverse happened in Scotland with Yes supporters burning an effigy of Cameron or a Labour politician, we would never hear the end of it. The MSM would be in hysterics, the outrage would be poring from them. I am not really bothered about the Salmond effigy, it just shows what a threat he posed/poses to Westminister. I heard that Hayley Millar, BBC Scotland political reporter, is saying that it was just a bit of fun. Good old colonial BBC Scotland eh....
burning an effigy of anyone still living is just a hate crime. regardless to their politics or religion. and as for those anti-catholic signs and burning crosses... its just disgusting. Im not a follower of religion of any kind but I can still see its offensive.
ReplyDeleteyes all bullies bigots and racists say "its just for fun". doesnt make it acceptable. its time they took responsibility and caught up with the world around them.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
If Lewes loves big rockets and lots of noise, may I suggest, decanting all the Nukes from our beautiful west coast when we finally gain our independence and hopefully, when the shit hits the fan, Lewes will be the first place in dear old Engerland to disappear like an enormous Roman candle.
ReplyDeleteThey burned an effigy of Cameron before. But hey, the perpetually offended always need something to get their teeth into.
ReplyDeleteWhen they burned the effigy of Cameron, was he dressed as a Morris Dancer, and holding a plate of jellied eels?
DeleteI'm not sure why that's supposed to be mitigating. It's fairly well known that Kippers who think Merkel is a Nazi (while burning gypsies in effigy) tend not to have a very favourable opinion of Cameron either.
Delete"When they burned the effigy of Cameron, was he dressed as a Morris Dancer, and holding a plate of jellied eels?"
DeleteNo, because that wouldn't have been an appropriate stereotype. A more accurate one would have been the cartoon toff.
Also, I'm not sure that you'd find too many English people who would object to the burning of effigies of morris dancers!
DeleteWhat do English folk call themselves?
DeleteAs in Jocks, Paddys, Taffs, etc. for the other members of the Unionist family.
Dunno, you'll have to ask them. "God's chosen people" perhaps? I jest!
DeleteOn the continent they call them "Island Apes", but I wouldn't want to insult our cousins.:-)
DeleteWhere did all the love go, Lewes? Remember you all wanted us to 'stay with you', six weeks ago? Last night you showed your contempt and hatred of all things Scottish, the 45% (1.6m fellow citizens), tartan, whisky, oil, shortbread, kilts, fishing industry, the thistle, all included in your lovely effigies. Make no mistake, this was not just Mr Salmond being sent to the pyre, it was the whole of Scotland: our culture, our national dress, many symbols of national identity, even our legends and myths, were to be burned away, erased, by the victorious UK.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, Lewes, you might just succeed, one day, in doing what you would love to do, blow us all skyhigh and erase ... after all, we are the convenient dumping ground for your nuclear arsenal.
Now, if we had only voted YES, the lovely people of Lewes would today be bickering with the rest of England as to where to put their actual fireworks, ie their slightly more explosive NUKES. But hey, Lewes, we're just your convenient nuke storage dumping ground.
To burn one effigy of Scotland was bad enough, but to burn two, well woops, the thinly veneered mask of so called 'Better Together' just cracked, like the toffee on a Hallowe'en apple. Remember, remember the 5th of November, Scotland!
Roll on May 2015. If Scotland returns 40 plus SNP MPs then it will be impossible for Westminster, in a hung parliament, to vote in favour of renewing Trident on the Clyde! This political message must be circulated to every home in Scotland, along with pictures of the Lewes' effigies, just to remind us all of the populist feelings held by many against Scotland, Scots and our democratic right to be different and ambitious for our people, ALL of the people living in Scotland. Who are the parochials and who the internationals? CErtainly the latter does not apply to the good folks of Lewes, who, I suspect, will be returning a UKIP MP in May.
You all got trolled soooo hard.
ReplyDeleteJute an
ReplyDeleteWouldn't know what the English call themselves, apart from the most wonderful people on the planet. Australians call the English "POMS" which is derogatory, and the POMS don't like it up'em. Perhaps we should copy the Aussies.
Ahh yes the Hope over Fear event where effigies showing the severed heads of Alistair Darling etc were paraded around days.
ReplyDeletePerfectly acceptable to the nats
Not to me it wasn't.
DeleteI used to live in Sussex. I wouldn't have gone near Lewes on 5th November on a bet, and I know a lot of other people of the same mind.
ReplyDeleteThe people doing it aren't aware of how offensive they're being. That doesn't mean it isn't offensive. I think it would be a damn good thing if there were an outcry every single bloody year and then it might penetrate some thick skulls.
Telling people not to be offended because it's only a traditional bit of fun has been a standard method of deflecting outrage over some pretty outrageous behaviour, from gross racism to minor sexual assault. In this case the whole thing is compounded by the situation where we've been unjustly labelled English-haters and if we'd done anything remotely similar we'd have been pilloried for it, but we're supposed to lie back and laugh when an Egglish town follows "better together" and "stay with us" with this performance?
Get real.
I suggest you go to Valencia one year and try and develop a sense of humour.
DeleteFor the record, Scottish pipers who take part in the parades on Bonfire Night are always very, very well received by the crowds in Lewes. There are no feelings of hatred or ill-feeling towards the great people of Scotland.
As someone rightly posts here, " perish the day we lose the right to offend public figures! "
That's the problem. This time they offended the ordinary people of Scotland. Salmond can look after himself, but the Yes badge was going too far.
Delete