Friday, December 18, 2020

An average of all twenty-three polls conducted this year puts support for independence at more than 53%

By overwhelming popular demand (well, a couple of people asked) here is an update of this blog's Poll of Polls.  Just a reminder that rather than including all of the most recent polls, it includes only the most recent poll from each individual firm, to ensure that no 'house effect' is given too much weight.  There are six polls in the current sample - one from Savanta ComRes, one from Survation, one from Panelbase, one from Ipsos-Mori, one from YouGov and one from JL Partners.  The percentage changes are measured from the last published update on 10th November.

SCOT GOES POP POLL OF POLLS

Should Scotland be an independent country?

Yes 54.8% (-)
No 45.2% (-)

So no change whatsoever!  Of course there's been movement underneath the surface, but it's cancelled itself out.  Panelbase and Savanta ComRes have shown a swing to Yes (a huge swing in the latter case), while YouGov, Survation and Ipsos-Mori have shown a modest swing to No.

It's entirely possible that we've now seen the final Scottish poll of 2020, in which case this is also a good moment to calculate an average of all the year's polls - I can always update it later if another poll unexpectedly turns up.  This isn't as straightforward an exercise as it appears, because there's a debate to be had over what should be considered a 'proper' independence poll.  Twenty-one polls this year have asked the standard independence question, while an additional two have asked about independence using non-standard questions.  There's also been a Scotland in Union propaganda poll asking about "leaving the United Kingdom", which as I always point out can't be considered a question about independence, because it's perfectly possible to leave the UK without becoming independent.  (For example, if Northern Ireland ever leaves the UK, it will almost certainly join another existing state rather than become independent.)  So I've excluded the non-indy propaganda poll, but included the two non-standard indy polls for the sake of completeness - which is hopefully fair enough, because one of the two was commissioned by an anti-indy client (Hanbury) and the other by a pro-indy client (Progress Scotland).

2020 average:

Yes 53.2%
No 46.8%

We've never come close before to a whole calendar year in which there was a majority for Yes, so we've broken that duck in quite some style.  (And in case you're wondering, including the Scotland in Union propaganda poll would have made only a minimal difference - Yes would still have been on 52.8%.)

A few people have also been asking already about future crowdfunded Scot Goes Pop polling.  Obviously I have to be careful not to go to the well too often, because there's always a danger of donation fatigue setting in, but if anyone has any strong feelings about timing, let me know in the comments section below.  The two obvious options are at the start of 2021 when people are coming to terms with the realities of Brexit, and at some point in April/early May, during the Holyrood campaign proper.

69 comments:

  1. If you live in an area where Covid restrictions allow it - get your YES group out on the streets to build on the momentum.

    Our group is well received, every time, in a politically mixed area. There is no public perception of us being a health issue as all precautions are carefully taken.

    It can readily be done. We all need to push !

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  2. I would say that's an 'overwhelming majority' ((c) UK) for Yes, but in fact it's even greater than that.

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  3. Wow. Very strong yes polling.

    If we don’t see movement back to ‘No’ soon then unionists will be in panic mode, offering any concessions they can.

    The May elections are going to be HUGE.

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    1. Like some sort of 'vow' that they don't plan to come good on? Maybe 'federalism'?

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    2. The saying "once bitten twice shy" comes to mind. Only a small percentage of the Scottish electorate would believe any new vow or talk of federalism. There will always be staunch unionists like there will always be staunch independence supporters but the middle ground is there to be won.

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    3. ‘The Vow’ was a Daily Record headline, not a UK Government term.

      Like I always say, Full Fiscal Autonomy is the best means of compromise because whatever the result, about the nation will still be divided and about 50% of the population will be resentful.

      FFA is ‘Indy Light’ and would win over Soft Nats and at the same time stops on international border on the island of Great Britain.

      It only takes a few % of soft nationalists to swing back to ‘No’ on the promise of FFA in order for a No win.

      I think if you had referendum right now on Indy vs Status quo you’d get about 52-48 for Indy.

      But I would love to see polling on Indy vs FFA or even Indy vs Status Quo vs FFA.

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    4. "It only takes a few % of soft nationalists to swing back to ‘No’ on the promise of FFA in order for a No win."

      Why does Westminster not deliver FFA right now if it's on offer? Why wait until after a No vote when it can just go back on its promise like last time?

      That's what the public will think; if FFA is on offer, just go ahead and do it! It's not as if the SNP + Greens can turn it down; they keep asking for more powers.

      If Westminster doesn't offer it now, it's because it doesn't plan to at all, so indy it is.

      And if Scotland gets FFA, what's the point of the UK exactly? Some sort of fuzzy warm British feeling? Most Scots don't have that sentimentality; it's about practicalities like the economy, EU etc. If Scotland is all but independent, why not be independent. Then we can stay in the EEA, get rid of trident etc...

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    5. Skier - I agree with the entirety of that post. Union 2.0 is getting desperate. As if Westminster will say Scotland you can have a lot more of your revenues. People like Johnston do not care about the people of Scotland they only care about our resources.

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    6. Skier - unlike you I do not let my dislike for someone distort my opinions. The more you troll me it will not change my opinions. But you will get abuse in return - and heavy abuse because I am getting well pissed off with you and your wee gang of trolls.

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    7. I've no idea what you mean here IfS, I was responding above to Union 2.0

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    8. Junkie Skier - your joy at "baiting me" will prove to be short lived.

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  5. I wonder what your thoughts are on this:

    I deeply hope that there is now majority support for independence. However we know from the experience of Trump that people with unfashionable opinions simply don't tell posters the truth. All the polls predicted a Joe Boden landslide, but in the end it was a much narrower victory. Biden got the same number of electoral college votes as Trump did four years earlier. And all this after the pollsters had attempted at great expense to correct their methodology which was so wrong in the Clinton-Trump race. Is there any danger that there are lots of "shy unionists" out there who are reluctant to tell pollsters their unfashionable view. And if so, is there any way we can ever be sure prior to a real, actual, referendum?

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    1. Of course we can't be sure - any real big swings in opinion are most likely to occur in the later stages of the campaign. That's why I've always said it's pointless to wait around for a certain percentage for Yes in the polls, because it could disappear in the blink of an eye anyway. On the Biden point, his win in the popular vote was actually pretty conclusive in the end - it just felt like a cliffhanger because the Trump votes came in early.

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    2. You really can't compare polls in Scotland to the polls in US - they basically have 50 winner takes it all elections which are then compiled into the final result. Look at the results in about 10 states - they are so narrow that any poll would really struggle there.
      Polls in Scotland have been quite good with their predictions so far, even polls for the UK GE have been well done. The movement in the last week before the 2017 GE was so big that polls which were done before that couldn't spot it. The polling which came after the day of GE and was done during that last week was consistent with the results. And also FPTP polls are much more difficult then for a referendum or Scottish elections. So - I'm quite confident there's nothing wrong with the polls. But they encapsulate only one certain point in time. We know that election's in May and the first possible day for a referendum would be in October (and that's very stretched) - and all sorts of things can happen before then.

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    3. Martin, about the possible earliest date for IR2. James may correct me here, but my understanding is that the Electoral Commission needs 3/4 months to even decide in the question.

      I've read by various sources online that a minimum of 9 months is needed. Personally I don't know why such a lengthy time is needed, but this suggests a poll in Spring 2022 at the earliest. Assuming WM agree to a s30, which appears to be the only "acceptable" alternative the current SNP Leadership will accept.

      Add a delay if this has to go to court (assuming the current legal question by Martin Keating(?) remains inconclusive or unresolved early next year - I think the hearing is the first half of January).

      I'd be surprised in there is a second referendum before May 2022, and likely later. In the next 18 months all hell is likely to break loose with the end on Covid and the increasing impact of Brexit on Scotland (and the wider UK). We are now living through the Chinese curse of "interesting times".

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    4. The problem with a delayed referendum is what Westminster will do to intentionally screw up Scotland in the intervening period. The question to be asked should be agreed NOW but I am sure the commission will do all in their power to delay the proceedings.

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    5. Of course you can never be sure about winning or losing referendums or elections based on polls. If that was the case why bother with an election or a referendum. Of course there are people (eg Skier) who are absolutely sure that any independence referendum that had taken place in 2018 or 2019 would have been lost. This degree of certainty either way is just nonsense.

      Election/referendum campaigns are there to change polls and then finally inluence the result. There is no absolute certainty just degrees of probability.

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    6. The electoral commission has nothing to to do with Scotland, it an English commission. Scotland will decide, the question only needs to be Independence yes or no. No muddying the waters.

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    7. Tony, you're right I think. Brexit referendum was about a year after the GE in 2015 - and Cameron wanted it out of the way ASAP. That's one of the things I do think SNP got it very wrong. All the work for the referendum should be done before the 2021 elections. If we wait for more than another year for it after the elections, all sorts of things can happen. People will get fed up with everything and it's questionable, even with the general support for independence remaining in 50s or even 60s, how much real desire there'll be for another referendum. I hope I'm wrong - but I would have very much preferred to have a referendum in 2021.

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    8. I ask you again 'Independence for Scotland', why have you picked this blog to suddenly start posting on?
      An answer would be good.
      I see your fetish with Skier is still on going.
      If you aren't here to concern troll and disrupt, please give me a link to other blogs you post on.
      What is your rank in the 77th?

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    9. Juteman - as you seem to be indulging in detective work ( along with your psycho disgusting trolling ) I'll do a bit of it myself. I think Juteman is Skiers sidekick Terence Callachan. Is that you Terence?

      I'll give you a wee clue Terence I do not answer questions from strange people and they don't come stranger than you - psycho troller.

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    10. I ask you again, why have you suddenly started posting on this blog?

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    11. So Terence when did I start posting on SGP?

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    12. Looks like the assistant Detective Terence has not done his research. Maybe Detective Ross will come to his aid. What a pair of idiotic time wasters you pair are.

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    13. So psycho troller Terence says I have just started posting so logically he should have some idea of when I first started posting to make this statement. Nope no reply from the psycho or his pal junkie Ross.

      Just a couple of trolls " baiting" me - horrible word that baiting but junkie Ross seems very proud of himself that he thinks he has "baited" a Unionist. Well he can tell me that to my face at the next AUOB meeting if he wants because I will be more than happy to tell him he is a disgusting human being - worse than GWC because at least GWC knew what he was.

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    14. Terence have they locked you up for the night and taken away your laptop. Dundee is a great independence city with a lot of great people and a few psychos like you.

      You would argue with and troll your own shadow if it could work a computer.

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  6. @Alt Clut. Ditto. Our local YES group have done 3 flag waving demos from a bridge over the A1 link Road.
    The last on St. Andrew's Day.
    Great response from drivers. Horns tooting, thumbs up etc.
    Would recommend to any group. Remember we're now the majority - and growing.

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    1. Nice one ramstam. Action is what's needed.

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    2. I commend you Ramstam and your friends for getting out there in the cold and waving the the flag of Scotland. Well done.

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  7. If you look at the polls, No is stuck at 41-42% constantly, and that it is the yes vote that is bouncing around, giving rise to the fluctuating Yes lead. Does that mean we have to be a bit cautious about the outcome of any referendum yet? Does it also have some warnings about the No vote is stuck ? Is that their ceiling? And if so does that mean that they have lost it already? Also as time goes by, No voters, being older, will be lost due to natural causes of them more likely to be dying? That must be terrifying for the Unionists.

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    1. "We have to be a bit cautious about the outcome" is an understatement. If the referendum was tomorrow, we'd be likely to win. But this is the first year Yes has ever been ahead on average, and the earliest any ref could possibly be held is six months from now (and probably much later if the UK gov don't cooperate, which they won't if the numbers stay like this).

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    2. We are ahead now because Westminster has made an erse of every thing it has done. The only thing they have done hes been to feather their own and friends nests, the Scottish people are not daft.

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  8. "there's always a danger of donation fatigue setting in"

    In your own case, I much doubt it. There are shamefully few sources of objective and genuinely informative reporting. I don't always agree with you, but as far as I'm concerned you needn't worry where your next hot meal is coming from.

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  9. Hi James. If you do decide to do another poll, I think it'd be interesting to ask people, regardless of their own preference, what level they think opinion polling support for independence is at - say, under 40%, 40-50%, 50-60% and over 60%. The point would be to show how good or bad a job our media (and, given the duty they owe us, our broadcast media in particular)are doing of reporting the rise in support. A failure to let the country know that most people now want independence would be a fundamental one.

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    1. Utter rubbish, ask the people yes or no for independence.

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    2. It's a suggestion for a supplementary question, of course we'd ask the main question as well.

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  10. Just another reminder that celebration of high polling figures for independence should be tempered by the knowledge that the means by which this public support might be converted to a democratic vote does not exist; is not in prospect; is not in planning; and isn't even promised

    As things stand, there is no reason to believe we will ever have the opportunity to exercise our right of self-determination in a free and fair referendum.

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    1. As always, I'm having difficulty working out whether this is the real Peter A Bell or his fiendishly convincing impersonator.

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  11. "By regaining democratic control of your own country your people are richer, your influence for good greater, your future brighter."

    Did Nicola Sturgeon say this - no Michael Gove said it. Gove making a great statement promoting Scottish independence - although he obviously didn't mean to. Hopefully the SNP will keep using it during the election and also if there is a referendum.

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  12. Why have you suddenly started posting on this blog 'Independence for Scotland'?
    Simple question.

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  13. A simple question from a psycho troller is usually best left unanswered. A bit like when an obvious nutter approaches you and asks " got a light mate".

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    1. I don't see an issue with Juteman's question.

      I've posted on SGP for years due to my interest in Scottish indy and polling. Started out on Brian's blog before the BBC shut the comments and also am a real, live person on a weather forum (I like snow) which some other readers on here can confirm. Posted on Wings when it was in its infancy up to iref1, but increasingly less past that for reasons previously discussed. There may even be some posters who've met me in person at marches in the past. My name is Ross.

      I recall the moniker Juteman from way back in the Scottish politics blogosphere; never seen trolling from him.

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    2. Well well Terence's pal turns up to troll as well.

      Ross you are an idiot and a troll.


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    3. Ross just when will the referendum take place?

      You seem to be an expert on reasonable questions. That seems a reasonable question. I've been asking you a lot of reasonable questions but strangely you seem to be unwilling to answer them but you want me to answer your psycho troll pal Terence's question. The pair of you are a joke.

      The only people messing up threads are trolls like you Ross and your wee gang of trolls.

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    4. How would I know; I'm not in government and even if I was, I might not be after 2021. Depends on the way Scots vote.

      You asking me is the equivalent to you stopping people in the street and demand they tell you when iref2 is. Folk will think you are a bit of a nutter.

      So far, all I know is that the SNP, Greens, Independence for Scotland Party and the Scottish Socialists all plan to organise iref2 if they collectively get a majority of MSPs in May. Manifestos are likely to be more specific.

      Of course if the Yes list vote splits, then we may be in the UK for at least another 5 years.

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    5. Also, if you don't want to tell us a bit about yourself, people will think you 'dark and sinister', unlike the transparent SNP NEC, so will trust the latter way more on the topic of indy. After all, they know all the folks on the SNP NEC, but not who IfS is...

      But at least can you maybe say which region you'll be voting in? I can assure you that won't identify you by jigsaw.

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    6. The S.N.P. must have a complete majority, otherwise there will be far to much infighting. 1 and 2 S.N.P. All the other parties can get themselves sorted for the 1st election after independence.

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    7. Ross the Skier the idiot troll asks what Region I am in trying to imply it is a secret - but of course I have already posted previously that I am in the West Of Scotland Region and I voted SNP constituency and Greens regional list because voting SNP would have not increased the number of independence supporting MSPs. I therefore helped Greer get a seat and helped maintain the position of the minority Scotgov.

      It just shows you do not read my posts or you really really are a bad reader. Too busy thinking up trolling questions and lies.

      I told you I am sick of all you trolls and you will get abuse if you dish it out.

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    8. Junkie Ross aka Idiot Skier says " Of course if the yes vote splits, then we may be in the UK for another 5 years" - well that is what you said you wanted isn't it - another 5 years of Tory rule just to drive the Yes vote higher to make sure of victory. What a disgusting person - wanting to inflict 5 more years of the Tories on Scotland.

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    9. Sorry is it ex junkie Ross. I did ask you which it was - no reply.

      Boasting of "baiting" people - you need to evaluate the way you conduct yourself because you truly are a disgusting person. I do not take kindly to bullies and trolls.

      I'll see you at the next AUOB march if you want to tell you that in person.

      Just what marches did you say you went to in Edinburgh - which years - what was the route for each. Quick now or I'll think you are lying and checking google.

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    10. Of course junkie Ross if you are on something right now you may struggle to Google anything. Out your head a lot are you? Is that why you post so much pish. If it is then I am sorry it wasn't your fault you post all these lies it is your problem obviously. Is it the one drug that is a problem or more.

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    11. Junkie Skier - I've heard taking drugs can cause mental illness is that the reason for your multiple personalities.

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    12. No reply from junkie Ross about the routes taken on the independence marches he claims he attended.

      Possible reasons why:

      1. He is out his head on drugs and having a sleep.

      2. He is lying again and wasn't at the marches.

      3. He is out his head on drugs and cannot google.

      4. He can't remember. I have heard drug use can affect the memory function.

      I think it is 2. He is lying again.

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  14. If anyone wants to know what a right wing unionist concern troll looks like, here is a textbook example. They just can't help it; properly baited, the mask will slip and reveal the unpleasant little shite behind it.

    https://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2020/12/truly-staggering-support-for.html?showComment=1608315511002#c1805111961692108582

    My thanks go out to them for getting us to 55% Yes. Their constant chipping away at support for No has been invaluable in the fight for Scottish indy.

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    1. Ross, we have seen quite a few over the 13 years or so of visiting James's blog.

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    2. Marcia - do you think you own BTL along with Ross - is that it? You don't like me showing your pal Ross is a liar.

      Well get used to it because if he lies I will be there to point it out. I have made it
      clear previously I do not take kindly to trolls and bullies.

      Your pal says "properly baited" you really are disgusting people.

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    3. Junkie Skier Says - " unpleasant little shite" - what a charmer. Well I am neither little or a shite. Try calling me that at the next AUOB meeting. I can't wait - hope Sturgeon gets these vaccines out quickly.

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  15. The Inquiry into the FM, Scotgov and SPECIAL ADVISERS have agreed a deal with the Scotgov (Swinney) to release the legal advice to the inquiry. Once again the Scotgov have dragged the matter out. Playing for time.

    Of course the lying troll Skier (Ross) said it was illegal or there were fictitious confidentiality agreements or whatever crap his tiny brain could come up with. He actually said the client did not own its own paid for legal advice. Now any decent person would have admitted they were wrong but not Ross he continued to invent pish and lie.

    That's right Ross I did ask you how many of these confidential agreements the Scotgov had with lawyers - no reply from Ross - because he was posting pish.

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    1. Aha the junkie Ross who specialises in " baiting" people is complaining of trolling. Perhaps you should be careful about who you chose to bait. Now back to your drugs - is it just one you have a problem with or is it a number of them.

      You mentioned " right wing" - are you still wanting to see another 5 years of Tory rule - now Johnson and his gang really are right wing - what does that make you? To quote you Junkie Ross that is a serious question.

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    2. Junkie Ross to show how considerate I am I will repeat the contents of that link on every thread if you want. Just let me know. It will save you bothering to post the link.

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    3. My posts on the drugs issue did not mention you, any of your hobby horses, was not not in response to you or any of your posts.

      But I guess to a right winger that mocks dementia victims, their families, and relatives/friends of people with drug/mental health problems, it was irresistible.

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    4. The work 'junkie' is just so right-wing Tory. It's why they use it against Scots, e.g. 'subsidy junkies' and of course in the context you employ, calling Scottish people drug 'junkies'.

      Never once in all my years have I met an independence supporter that used such language. Only Tory, UKIP, Brexit party etc voters.

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    5. Trying to take the moral high ground is the liar and " baiter "of people on independence sites. Laughable self delusion. Being a liar next thing the liar will say is he doesn't bait people.

      Never have I met an independence supporter who baits people, lies about them and calls them unpleasant little shits. You are of course a proven liar.

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