Wednesday, March 27, 2019

Not in this day and age, unless someone drags us back

I've belatedly caught up with the blogpost Jason McCann wrote a couple of days ago in response to the eye-opening exchange I had with him and a couple of his friends from Ireland, which revealed the path of 'revolution' that they would like the Scottish pro-independence movement to go down.  Having had a quick skim through Jason's post, I wasn't going to bother responding, because it mostly covers ground that I've already dealt with in my own blogpost about the exchange.  However, I should have realised that Jason wouldn't have been able to resist saying something outrageous and deeply offensive about me personally, and sure enough, on closer inspection there it was.

"One pro-independence blogger even went as far as saying that the suggestion that this might actually happen was 'incitement' on the part of those suggesting it. Entrenching himself in this assertion, he went on to imply that the Irish background and the religious beliefs of those suggesting it need further interrogation – because, you know, Irish Catholics are inherently violent."

That's only a very marginally more polite version of the allegation he repeatedly made on Saturday morning that I am an "anti-Irish, anti-Catholic bigot".  I may as well just call a spade a spade here: of all the wild attacks that have been made on me over the years that I've been blogging, this is without doubt the most mind-bogglingly stupid one of all, because you only need to look at my name to guess with confidence that I am, just like Jason, a Roman Catholic of Irish decent.  If you go back far enough, I don't have any Scottish ancestry at all as far as I'm aware - it seems to be three-quarters Irish and one-quarter French-Canadian, and even the French-Canadian bit is firmly Catholic.  I still have relatives in Donegal, right on the edge of the Gaeltacht, that my family are vaguely in contact with - I visited them when I was nineteen, and they told me to my surprise that my dad used to spend his summers there.

Essentially Jason is accusing me of an extreme form of self-loathing.  If he wants to make such an improbable charge stick, he'll have to flesh out what he thinks my motivations could possibly be.

Needless to say, Jason's claim that I "implied" that Irish people from my own religious denomination are "inherently violent" is a downright and intentional lie.  All I did was state that Ireland has a recent history of political and communal violence and Scotland does not.  That was simply a statement of plain, irrefutable truth, and it was not said to make anyone feel uncomfortable - although the fact that it seems to have had that effect on Jason may well be because of the sensitivities he feels over his current membership of a political party that supported violence during the Troubles.  I don't criticise him for his affiliation - indeed, if I lived in Northern Ireland, it's not impossible that I'd vote for Sinn Féin myself (it would be a difficult choice between them and the SDLP).  But if I did so, it would be in spite of their pre-1994 history, not because of it.  I wonder if Jason can say the same?  That's merely a question, but it's not an unreasonable one given the stridency of his views about Irish history and the cue that he believes Scotland should take from it.

The other obvious point here is that my reference to the fact of communal violence in recent Irish history cannot possibly be taken to imply a specific criticism of Catholics, because that violence was - as everyone knows - committed by both Catholics and Protestants.

The rest of Jason's post is basically a warning to us all not to be naive about the possibility of British state violence, and a reminder of the occasions when people in various countries have incorrectly thought "it couldn't happen again, it can't happen here".  All I would say is that history is littered with people learning the wrong lessons from history.  If you take Jason's strictures to their logical conclusion, you'd think that Germany is likely in the near future to elect a fascist government and invade Poland, just because it's happened once before.

Contrary to what Jason believes, I didn't actually 100% discount the possibility of future political violence in Scotland, but he might not like my verdict on how it would be most likely to happen.  I think we'd only get into dangerous territory if we listen to the siren voices of those on the fringes who whip up paranoid hysteria about the supposedly murderous intentions of the British state, and who try to get us to respond to that "threat" by developing a "revolutionary consciousness".

There is a conventional political path available to us that can take us to our desired destination.  Let's do ourselves a big favour by sticking to it.

31 comments:

  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Ach, stupid and offensive. You're right about that, James. Crush it under your moral chariot wheel and move on - pay no more attention to it than you have to. Treat it like any other attempt at trolling.

    To change the subject to possible future political violence, I cannot see any significant communal violence occurring in Scotland. Not any more. My understanding of it is that most Scots looked over the water at the Troubles and thought "Not going there if I have anything to do with it".

    I remain worried, though, about the possible actions of the Westminster regime: it is NOT inconceivable to me that in response to a serious threat to its hegemony a British Establishment / Tory Party regime might turn even more nasty than it already is - certainly to the point of shutting down our democratic institutions and imposing direct rule from London on us - which would be to some degree punitive, whichever way you look at it.

    UK Governments have never understood why so many of us in Ireland and Scotland are not happy with their rule. That same arrogant, boneheaded contempt is on display in the House of Commons every time a Tory (or DUP) MP tells Ian Blackford or other SNP MP to go home. Maybe Ian Blackford can raise a point of order and ask the Speaker if it is the will of the House that the Scottish MPs should go home...

    It has often been said but I'll repeat it now: we independentistas will not be the ones responsible for breaking the Union; it will be the Unionists themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Key points from this morning. Lab expecting upto 10 ministers to resign so they can break the whip and vote against Beckett invicative vote. Labour did not have much choice in whipping for as Tom Watson had said he was going to vote for it whatever happened and if they Whipped against then would of had the spectical of Labours Deputy resigning. As said at weekend, Watson seems increasingly to be pulling the strings in Labour.

    Ken Clark also said that he would support a VOC against the Government if they don't implement any majority that comes out of the Indicative votes. Presumably he would not be the only Pro European MP who would do so, whether or not the numbers to bring down the Government is the question.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I really love it when people from one country invade another, take it over and then accuse the people they took over of being violent. " We raped that girl like every day for years and now she wants me to stop and she clawed my face and kicked me in the nuts. She is SO VIOLENT!". This is pretty easy.the people from the BIG island leave the LITTLE island. End of violence. Like : stop breaking into people's houses at night and they will stop calling he police to arrest you. If you arrest you and you fight them the cops are not violent.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bill, the Good Friday Agreement, which I would guess you probably support, enshrines the principle of consent and removes the Republic of Ireland's previous territorial claim on Northern Ireland. So this is no longer about "the people from the big island leaving the little island", it's about the people of a divided territory choosing for themselves whether they wish to remain part of the UK or join the Republic of Ireland. The main weakness in the agreements, as I've pointed out a number of times on this blog, is that they give the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland discretion to decide when and if a constitutional referendum should be held, and for the life of me I've never understood why Sinn Fein agreed to that. However, if there was sustained evidence of support for a united Ireland, I would imagine the pressure from the Republic of Ireland for a referendum would probably be quite telling.

      Delete
    2. The Belfast Agreement was agreed by Sinn Fein IRA because they were not ever going to win the war. Read the Cain death list in NI and see the stupidity that was inflicted on the Irish people. Any Scots person who follows the IRA route is on a hiding.

      Delete
    3. I believe the GFA states along the lines that if the people of N.Ireland demonstrate that they wish to be part of Republic of Ireland then the SoS must call an referendum. So the SoS has very little discretion on calling a ref. As James said if polling does get to required level, Irland will be very vocal, the fact that it has been around 25% thus far is the reason is they have not been vocally pushing upto now.

      Delete
    4. Demographic will, will win it.

      Delete
  6. And another wee subset showing SNP up, Labour crashing, with the Tories apparently heading down too.

    Yougov.

    45% SNP
    17% Con
    18% Lab
    8% Lib
    5% Green
    3% UKIP

    SNP + Green = 50%.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Amen James. As boring and constitutional as possible suits me fine.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Good news is that Borris killed off any chance of him becoming PM tonight, no way is the Euro sceptic wing of the Conservatives going to choose him now.

    But his chances probably actually ended when he backed leave at the Ref. If he had chosen remain good chance he would be PM now or be the next MP if Cameron was still in office.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I have to say that Catholics historically can be brutal towards anyone who attempts to deviate from their grasp. The Crusades, the thirty years war, the Spanish Armada, the Hugeanots, the Jacobites and Ireland. The bum boys just like bloodlust. Thank goodness for the Reformation and the Enlightenment.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "I wish it was still 1957! People knew their places then!
      STOP LAUGHING AT ME AND MY PRIMITIVE BIGOTRY!
      Waaaaaah!"

      Delete
    2. Cordelia didn't like that at all. Calling it out on its bigotry always sends it into an impotent gammony rage.

      Delete
  10. Clever people would have debated the different brexit options 3 years ago, then triggered article 50 with viable plan in hand.

    Thick as pigshit prize dumbasses would be doing it tonight.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Clever people would have accepted the referendum result and left the EU on Friday on WTO rules.

      Delete
    2. No deal (to WTO) is against the will of the people. Been voted down by their sovereign parliament twice now (just lost again by 160F to 400A). The people took back control of their law making and said 'No' to WTO.

      Delete
    3. The sovereign parliament gave the decision to the people although the sovereign parliament thought the people were stupid and would crawl on their knees to the Mafia EU. Most Scots crawled as perpetual benefit seekers do. The majority of British voted not to crawl.

      Delete
    4. Except the brit jocks such as yersel who voted for 'Subsidies from the English taxpayer' in 2014 and would do so again.

      I voted for standing on our own two feet.

      Delete
    5. Yup, no Hard Brexit options left and May's deal won't get through soft or no second ref it is

      Delete
    6. skier, you do not object to EU subsidies that are monies paid to the EU by the British taxpayer and some returned for onerous projects. Meanwhile the EU fat cats are getting treatment for diabetes. Hic.

      Delete
    7. "Taking back control and handing it to Boris is more important than diabetes treatment! I still believe in what he said on the side of the bus!
      STOP LAUGHING AT ME!
      WAAAAAAH!"

      Delete
    8. Ernie the Bus Driver far KirkieMarch 28, 2019 at 6:58 AM

      We have taken back control. After difficult negotiations and bad feeling, I now keep hold of the remote control.

      Delete
    9. Boris and co certainly didn't intend that "taking back control" meant handing it to the peasants.

      Delete
  11. it was great to see the elderly snp member of parliament wearing her visiblity jacket in parliament today,health andsafety are delighted and wish that all mps wear it for diversity,equality and safety reasons,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bagsie issuing a hi-vis to Rees-Mogg first. The confusion and fear on his face; it'll be like the time his nanny took him to Leven to chase votes...

      Delete
    2. “You might very well think that - I couldn't possibly comment.”

      Delete
  12. If Scotland votes for independence the Orange Order will be mobilised and generously resourced to cause mayhem on the streets. The Mother of Parliaments will insert its troop to restore order on Scottish streets. Surely you have caught a glimpse of the plan?
    http://tinyurl.com/y5kkorxh

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Then we use every peaceful means at our disposal to render Scotland ungovernable except through our Parliament. Show the whole world how the so-called Mother of Parliaments tramples on Article 1 of the UN Charter. Humiliate the arrogant remnant of the British State before the entire planet.

      Delete