Monday, October 14, 2019

Panelbase poll is the latest to suggest we're on course to RETAIN the pro-independence majority in 2021

Many thanks to a fellow James for alerting me to the Holyrood voting intention numbers from the new Panelbase poll for the Sunday Times, which he found deep in the polls section of What Scotland Thinks - I'm not sure if they've been published elsewhere yet, or if they've merely been under-reported.

Scottish Parliament constituency ballot:

SNP 42% (n/c)
Conservatives 21% (+1)
Labour 19% (+3)
Liberal Democrats 10% (-1)

Scottish Parliament regional list ballot:

SNP 38% (-1)
Conservatives 21% (+1)
Labour 18% (+2)
Liberal Democrats 11% (+1)
Greens 6% (-1)

That's a similar-ish pattern to the Westminster numbers, although the mystery is that Labour seem to be the party that have recovered most.  The two big things that have changed about the political weather since the last Panelbase poll in June is the tide going out somewhat on the Brexit Party, which ought to benefit the Tories more than anyone else, and the ascent of a Scottish MP to the leadership of one of the London parties, which ought to benefit the Liberal Democrats.  And yet the Lib Dems are essentially flatlining, there's only the faintest of signs of Tory recovery, and it's Labour that have put on three points on the constituency ballot.  I suppose I'm a tad sceptical, and I'm wondering if the Labour boost is an illusion caused by a sampling quirk.

This is yet another poll suggesting that we're on course to retain the pro-independence majority at Holyrood in 2021, although it would perhaps be a slightly smaller majority than at present.  The Scotland Votes model suggests the SNP would retain the 63 seats they won in 2016, but the Greens would slip back from 6 to 3.  So there would be 66 pro-indy seats altogether, slightly outnumbering the 63 unionist seats.  It's important to stress that Panelbase have in recent times reported less favourable numbers for the SNP than other firms have (on the constituency ballot at any rate), so it's conceivable that the true situation is somewhat better than this.

93 comments:

  1. Wick Dod says:

    Hur, hur, Beavis, you said "regional list".

    (Say something three times and someone might appear.)

    Yes, it's a mystery what the LP-in-S have done to deserve rather than drop a couple of percentage points.

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  2. Yes vote is now going cross party, well beyond the SNP and Greens.

    It's the natural next step in the end of Scottish unionism.

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    1. I notice Kezia has quit English Labour just as Ruth quit the English Tories.

      There is no place for Scottish politicians in English nationalist parties. Both have been driven out by English nationalism.

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    2. Really? Rooth the Mooth has quit the tories? Was that a doppleganger I saw sitting behind Jackson Carla's at FM questions the other day?
      Ale Birnie

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    3. Yes, she quite as leader and will not be standing again once she's squeezed out the last of her taxpayer funded salary (she says anyway).

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  3. So Johnson is to humiliate the queen once again today by making her read out the his English nationalist Tory faction party political broadcast.

    You see the problem is that he's an English nationalist, and she's a one nation unionist Tory. Same clash as per Dugdale and Davidson. Same reason there's no jocks in the cabinet or shadow cabinet... English nationalism is breaking unionism.

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    1. Wick Dod says:

      Re the Queen's Speech - it's a bit as though the San Marino game had been abandoned after 80 minutes and someone had printed a programme for the final 10 minutes that would be getting played at St Mirren Park round about now.

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    2. Scottish Skier, you're a mine of disinformation today. Michael Gove was born and raised in Aberdeen, and Alistair Jack was born in Dumfries

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Gove represents an English constituency (I notice you are an ethnic nationalist in your heart here) and the SoS for Scotland is a meaningless, power-free role rendered pointless by devolution. MPs representing Scottish constituencies will never be given cabinet roles where they could exercise any power over the UK/England. That is the deep racism at the heart of things.

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    5. Scottish Skier..... no, I'm definitely not an ethnic nationalist. I was immensely proud of the fact that the Indy referendum was open to ALL Scots, regardless of where they were born. You're being a bit naughty, ascribing those sentiments to a remark, which was merely meant to correct your statement.

      Gove might well represent an English constituency, but he is Scottish by self-proclamation. Alistair Jack was born in Scotland, and represents a Scottish constituency, so your statement isn't factually correct.

      You are correct that English nationalism will be the death of the union, but as an inveterate pedant, I had to correct you. ��
      Alex Birnie

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    6. My statement is correct. Here it is for you:

      MPs representing Scottish constituencies (='Scottish MPs') will never be given cabinet roles where they could exercise any power over the UK/England.

      When an MP representing a Scottish seat next becomes UK PM...chancellor...SoS for Education....etc, I will stand corrected.

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    7. Gove was born in Edinburgh and raised in Aberdeen if we're really going to be pedantic.

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    8. Oh dear. Scottish Skier, Your initial statement - the one I corrected, was "Same reason there's no Jocks in the cabinet or shadow cabinet". Whatever you may think of the pejorative (or not) nature of the term "Jock", there are two "Jocks" in the cabinet, so your original statement was incorrect. Splitter, yes, I am pedantic. Gove (Birth name - Graeme Logan) thought that he was born in Edinburgh, but it was revealed this year that he was born in Fonthill Hospital, Aberdeen (Wikipedia).

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  4. James, I posted this on Wings this morning, so, it is only fair I also post it on here.

    FFS, will you and Stuart Campbell please kiss and make up, we need you both singing from the same hymn sheet. Stop behaving like a pair of spoiled kids.

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    1. Socrates, unlike you, my privilege of commenting on Wings has been removed, so I can comment only on here.

      I entirely disagree with the premise of your comment. You can't expect James Kelly and Rev Stu Campbell to agree on this, when they have such fundamental differences. James believes that splitting the SNP vote could have dire consequences for the independence majority in Holyrood. Stu used to believe EXACTLY THE SAME THING, when it was RISE that was trying to "pinch" SNP votes ..... until he put forward the idea of launching a Wings party, to try the same tactic, but which, according to Stu (and myself, at the time), might have a chance of increasing the number of pro-indy seats in Holyrood.

      The VITAL question, was just how many SNP voters are LIKELY to switch to Wings, because as James Kelly has explained at great length and on many occasions, there ARE scenarios where a smaller party could siphon off just enough votes to prevent the SNP from winning list seats, but falling just short themselves of gaining a seat.

      Stu promised to conduct polling to answer that question definitively, but so far, the poll he has commissioned has been a "not-so-subtle" attack on the SNP, crowned by a stonker of a question, which practically led respondents right up the path to agreeing that yes, they WOULD vote for this new party. In spite of Stu's blatant attempnto get the result he wanted, the "savvier-than-normal" SNP voters, said "yes, definitely" in much smaller numbers than Stu must have been expecting, and many more than would be expected (in light of the bullshit leading question), said "no, definitely not".

      We are now in a situation where Stu is (almost certainly) going to "do a RISE stunt", trying to ask questions which will induce SNP voters to be more compliant with his wishes.

      James Kelly is opposed to Stu in this, because like many of us, James cares solely about independence, and not so much on political ambition. Stu, on the other hand? Meh. Not so enthusiastic about indy any more, and more interested in getting his arse into a Holyrood seat.

      The two positions are incompatible. They aren't (IMO) acting like children. They are acting like adults who have VERY different priorities.
      Alex Birnie

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    2. What hymn sheet would that be? Wanting Independence for Scotland? In case you haven't noticed Campbell seems to have turned his coat on this one which includes tweeting one SNP baad Times article after another today. Remember that was one of the newspapers that he used to slate: Once Upon a Time? These days are gone, I'm afraid to say.

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    3. He's also been furiously tweeting that screen tests involving the SNP logo are somehow vast evil trans conspiracies. Unsurprisingly, his more paranoid and ludicrous frothers are having a field day with it.

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    4. The paranoid and ludicrous frothers are mostly Unionists that he's encouraged on to his site who have been hounding genuine independence supporters off. Add to that those that have been banned. All part of Stu Campbell's (or another's) plan.

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    5. I see poor old Stuart has conceded that he'd vote for Hitler over a slightly ingratiating and sanctimonious, but basically unremarkable, SNP councillor. I wonder if that'll go in the first PPB

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    6. Guardian now has article "Several women 'close to quitting party over gender recognition plans' ". Stu may feel that his boat is coming in.

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  5. There exists a whole spectrum of attitudes towards the SNP. From the "cultists" for whom Nicola Sturgeon is the fount of all wisdom and can do and say no wrong, through the folk who are fervent yessers, but have to sometimes hold their tongue, or even their nose, at some of the SNP policies (I include myself in this group), through those who go along with the SNP, because they want independence, but will probably leave as soon as Indy comes along (I'm also in this group), through those who think that the SNP are "in league" with unionist forces, MI5 etc, right through to those who hate the SNP, hate the very idea of independence, and do everything in their power to thwart the SNP.

    Where, on that spectrum, would you place someone who, in the past, has given every appearance of being well towards the first part of the spectrum as described, but who now seems hell bent on putting personal ambition above independence, in the full knowledge that their ambition COULD hurt the prospects of independence? Where would YOU place such a person? I know that I am genuinely puzzled by such a person.... strange times. Strange people..l.

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    1. Where would YOU place such a person?

      Now? What about GCHQ headquarters. Fifty four miles north of Bath.

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  6. Alex Birnie .... I forgot to put my name (anonymous 1:45pm)

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    1. Why not just put Alex Birnie in the Name section under Reply as:

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    2. Thanks for that. I didn't think I could do that without also putting in the URL, and since I still don't know what a URL is, even after googling it.......

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  7. Quite something to watch the brexiters utterly humiliate the Queen like this. Live on the telly in front of the nation with the world looking on.

    Next we will likely watch everything she's just promised her government will deliver shot down in flames when it goes to a vote on the proposed programme.

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    1. The Queen sitting there dripping in diamonds and gold, as millions in the UK sit at home counting their pennies and crusts of bread. And yet they are often the very people who wave the Union Fleg. Brainwashed by BBC propaganda.

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    2. Bartholomew G CoconutOctober 14, 2019 at 10:27 PM

      She's well paid for her circus act.

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  8. I have no problem with Stuart Campbell expressing his opinion that Scotland might not achieve Independence in the way that the SNP is trying to do
    The problem is that he expresses it in a foul mouthed rancid sarcastic manner as if he's filled with glee at the prospect of being right
    Proving that this man is not bothered one way or another about Independence for Scotland he's only concerned with himself revealing a fetid obsessive personality

    Whether he's right or not has become neither here nor there, the man has an ugly superior attitude to others and has attracted more of the same type of people exhibiting those same ugly traits to his website, that's why so many reasonable people have left him to it and I notice some of those names posting here

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  9. I think Wings is publishing the results of another poll, not limited to SNP voters, and he says 'boy the results are interesting'. be great to see what this one says.

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    1. Oh God, here we go again. And doubtless when this polling blog analyses the results, it'll be accused of continuing a "demented obsession".

      He really does have an issue with leading questions - I'd have been downright embarrassed to have asked some of the ones from his last poll. It's the old delusion of "I know I'm right, therefore I'm being objective".

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    2. I'm just waiting for him to announce that he'll be contesting the constituency votes. He's out to destroy the SNP, the only party capable of getting independence, to ensure that we don't get it.

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  10. Wings over Scotland devises a new set of questions for a poll that proves conclusively that the SNP were correct not to want a referendum on Brexit in the first place (but conveniently forgets that part)

    Then uses the results to suggest the SNP are doing it everything wrong on something they had no control over but Scotland sctually asked them to do it by voting 62% to remain

    Once again Stuart Campbell fudges the reasons as to why events happen as they do and demands the SNP drop everything and do what he tells them, not what Scotland actually voted for

    Then insists to his increasingly diminishing cohort of followers that once again he's right and the world is wrong because he did a dodgy poll on a subject that nobody can answer questions on in an informed manner then produces his dodgy assertions because of it

    Is it small man syndrome or giant ego maniac syndrome or just the plain desire to sew discontent wherever he can because the courts felt he was a wee weirdo

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    1. Bath's near Cheltenham, isn't it? Wonder what's based in Cheltenham apart from the horse racing.

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  11. With polling showing folks in England are clearly against EUref2, and at the same time, it's a statistical tie on leave/remain, any new EUref 'forced' on the electorate by Lab/Lib (SNP?) pact post GE could well lose simply due to a backlash.

    I keep saying that the only sure way of winning a vote that keeps the UK in the EU when it's one the public have very comfortably backed holding.

    If you get 50%+ for EUref2 parties in the next UK GE, then remain is in with a chance. If not, then expect leave to win again.

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    1. Good job that EUref2 parties are constantly polling 50+ plus then, excellent news :)

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    2. I assume you are including the SNP here? Unlike Britain Elects!

      Obviously they don't count for England & Wales. Otherwise, Lab+Lib+Green totals are less than 50%. Essentially reflects the L/R totals. Not consistently for pro-EUref 2 parties at all, but split right down the middle.

      If the SNP managed to 'force' EUref2 in England by backing it where it wouldn't pass without them, it would very likely break the union. I mean what if Scotland then went independent? What if Scots votes kept England in the EU, then Scotland just upped and left?

      I've always understood that the SNP's 'Stop England's Brexit' was to try and get a tartan backstop to match N. Ireland's one by pissing off England as much as possible. So far, it's absolutely succeeded; English voters are now overwhelmingly ready to break the union in response to Scotland/N. Ireland interfering with brexit. 'Brexit before the union' is a sea change of profound implications. If the English no longer care for the union, it will be over very, very quickly.

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    3. AS i said time will tell. For me things are going exactly as I expected, second ref becoming the default for every party except Con/Brex. Conservatives vote stalling. All going very well, still fully expect the UK to be back in the EU by the summer at the latest.

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    4. Remaining would be my preferred outcome. Indy would be much easier with the UK in the EU, as would Irish reunification.

      Brexit has not helped the indy Yes % not directly. Everyone thought it would, but it didn't really. It has irreparably damaged the UK though, mainly through Scotland's desires being ignored. That is solidified the Yes base to the extent there is no turning them back, while it has weakened unionism. At the same time, the national identity demographics shift a little more to Yes each day, fatally undermining the union.

      My hope is brexit cancelled and Scotland independent in the next parliamentary term.

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  12. Results from England are interesting. Brexit before the union by ever larger margins down there now. Boris is getting the nod from the electorate to sign off the N. Irish backstop. SNP should do everything to scupper brexit too, at least if no Section 30 is forthcoming. Make sure the English are banging their fists demanding independence from us jocks.

    Must be tough for Scottish unionist though, seeing England couldn't give two shits for the union that is. Enough to make you quit as Scottish Tory leader for example. That or quit the Labour Scottish branch office party you used to lead.

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    1. I love your logic, Skier, and largely agree with it. Stu Campbell must really hate you, because, in a short post, you have pretty much trashed his "logic". Are you banned from "Wings", by any chance? ������

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    2. One point that might concern us from the new poll --
      "If there were to be a new referendum on Brexit, do you think that the results would be respected by Parliament?"

      England 43%
      Wales 51%
      Scotland 37%

      Still quite trusting compared to the 'put-upon' Welsh.

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    3. And I should have said those were the figures for "No" (we wouldn't).

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    4. That question tells you really nothing about trust in the UK government at all. The outcome isn't specified, which will greatly effect how people respond. You're making them guess this, rendering the question useless. I think if there was a Remain voted, they'd absolutely respect it 100%. However, if it was for for leave again, I think they'd still look for ways to get around it. So I think they'd respect it and not respect it.

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  13. When the Jockos really realise that they will not have real independence but are lackeys of the EU gravy train and they will have to contribute to the gravy train then minds could change. We have time to reflect before being sold out by the rich middle classes..

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  14. James,

    The full Panelbase poll data shows that the question on Independence was the standard question and not a variation.

    https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/Sunday-Times-Tables-for-publication-111019.pdf

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    1. Aye, it is the standard 'tomorrow' question, and so is completely independent of any brexit effect.

      This is how Scots would vote in a snap iref held tomorrow for a UK which is in the EU, and quite likely staying, no ifs no buts.

      If brexit is cancelled, the Yes vote is likely to continue along it's current course broadly unchanged, just as not much happened to it post 2016 EUref. 43% of Remainers back No while 32% of leavers back Yes. It's not what has half of Scots backing indy.

      Brexit or not the UK is on its last legs.

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    2. We will see herr Skier. Do not count yer haggis until they are all caught.

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    3. And don't stick it up yet lum when you catch it or it'll reek. Tho I hear your house reeks already like a Bangkok brothel after the US Nimitz docks in harbour. All aboard boys

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    4. All aboard girls it should be GWC impersonator! It is the Navy.

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    5. She's at it again. Nat si fannyboy.

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    6. We Tories and our Scottish Nationalist friends will stick more immigrants into your lower class communities and keep you pacified. Cannot have the riff raff amongst their rulers.

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    7. By a country mile, the largest immigrant community in Scotland are the English.

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  15. Two big beasts of cybernattery locked in Mortal Kombat. How will future historians interpret Sir James and Rev Stu?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-50040798

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  16. In a new poll 100 people were asked if they would like a new 3 piece suite 96 Yes 2 No 2 don't know
    When told later they'd have to stump up cash to pay for them 100 said No

    Just like the Wings party polls

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    1. Most Kosovan immigrants who moved into the Springburn High flats sold their 3 piece sweets tae criminal organisations from Kosova while Strathclyde police looked on.

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    2. What type of sweets? Gobstoppers? Pandrops? Refreshers?

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    3. Smash the Cat nat sis cos they block roads are right-wing anarchists & tax-evaders n stuff.

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    4. Dont snash mu cat. Miaiw

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  17. Has anybody told mad mental nicky that the english are happily bringing forward new laws which would explicitly make Scotland a county of england and be unable to become independent by any means short of war?

    Not a new idea mind. Remember jackstraw wanted to do that back in 2007 to stop the evil Salmond and his referendum of doom.

    How can any vote by Scottish people be illegal? Can she stop listening to leslie MI5 evans and get on with doing her real job?

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    1. Vote for BritLab, BritCon, JoCon etc and get 'jackstraw'.

      Vote for Wings and get Stripy Straw.

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  18. On another topic. I see sevvy carrel english journalist and agitator for union manages to make the fake rape allegations against Salmond sound as if they were completely different people to the 2 sluts who were coached by evans and mckinnon to spout lies which were overwhelmingly rejected in a civil court.

    It is all a bit odd that the same evidence can be thrown out in one case but used by the police to continue the politically motivated persecution of an innocent man.

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  19. Can any adult in the room please ask the FM why we apparently need to ask the english permission to hold a vote on independence from england in order to appease spain.

    Why should Scottish sovereignty and our fundamental human right to decide our own future (which cameron repeatedly supported) be dependent on appeasing actual fascists?

    Spain has no power under EU law to prevent an existing member of the EU from continuing their membership. It is, was and always will be nothing more than a hollow threat and project fear scare story that they had any power at all to over us.

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    1. Because having them say no (even thought it's not actually needed) is a huge vote generator. It's mainly responsible for the Yes majority we have now.

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  20. It's not to appease Spain,Spain's not the problem, it's to be recognised by the EU and UN as a legally constituted Independent country according to UN charter to put beyond legal veto or challenge by any country including the UK as the remaining member state, remember England won't like Scotland leaving them one bit and will try to do to Scotland what they did to Ireland

    You can't trust the English, past present or future governments

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  21. So the people of Scotland will go to court to protect democracy if the English government try to overrule that by attempting to block iref2.

    I wonder who'd win the battle of public opinion on this one?

    And the claim of right endorsed by every UK government going back into history, most notably in 2014?

    It would be like the EU overruling 2016, which would have me shoulder to shoulder with Farage.

    The SNP have played the UK government like a fiddle so far on Section 30. They couldn't have done it better.

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    1. If this could just generate a few % more, a majority of Scots would back independence finally.

      No, wait, that's the case already on average! But hell, the more the merrier!

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  22. So the currently the way things look are:

    THe backstop is dead. There are simply not the votes for it to pass.

    Therefore any deal has to:
    Replicate the protections of the backstop
    Have enough movement in it from the EU to allow Boris to sell it to the ERG
    Have enough movement in it for the DUP to sign up for it
    Be 'soft' enough for Ex conservatives to sign up for it

    Without the above then its unlikely to have the votes to get through Parliment. But any deal that is seen to give to much to to the UK will probably not get signed off by the EU leaders.

    So considering the balancing act that has to be achieved to get a deal the chances of getting a deal in the next 24hours are slim.

    Even if there is a deal, there will still need to be an extension for the reasons David Gauke has been saying today.

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  23. If there is no chance of a deal, what is the purpose of the extension?

    If it is simply to get some time to cancel brexit, why not just revoke A50?

    If the extension is to hold a new referendum, that requires pro-ref parties to win. What guarantees can be given to EU member states that this will happen, and pro-remain parties will form an alliance to deliver a specified referendum?

    These are all the questions EU member state governments are asking.

    To add to this, the peoples of the EU are now firmly against granting an extension to England, and there may be an electoral backlash against governments doing this.

    Better to bite the bullet and let the UK crash out? The EU is very prepared for this now and will suffer much less economic damage. At the same time, the UK will be very weakened, so will desperately do a deal with the backstop included. It's that or no deal with anyone ever.

    I'm with macron and a very long extension of like 3 years, or none at all. Kicking the can down the road for a few months at a time solves nothing.

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    1. When your biggest economy is most likely to shortly announce that it is in recession, you don't throw petrol on the fire by crashing one of your fastest growing economies (Ireland) by voting for a no deal.

      The democratically elected representatives of the people of the Eu (MEPs) have already voted that there should be an extension granted and there has been no backlash.

      So no the EU will not bite the bullet and let the UK crash out. But agree with you the extension is probably going to be quiet long (probably until June) according to reports.

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    2. Germans are the most against an extension.

      England is already intentionally harming the German economy and threatening worse. It's also 'registering' their citizens, refusing many the right to long term residence even though they've been here many years, and telling the rest it doesn't want them to be able to freely live/work in England.

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    3. non of that changes the fact then when your biggest economy is stalling/contracting you deliberately damage one of your fastest growing economies with a no deal Brexit.

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    4. I'm kinda confused here. The UK is deliberately and intentionally trashing it's own economy as we speak. There are various countries globally doing the same thing.

      The world doesn't work on logic much of the time. Countries often do things which damage them, and intentionally a lot of the time. You are speaking like they don't.

      Having said that, the Germans do a decent job here normally; of being sensible that is. Although in the past they've made decisions which utterly ruined them. Got their country leveled to the ground. Twice within the past century in fact.

      Anyway, England is a damaging problem for the EU. It's a cancer on the European project and always has been. De Gualle was right in saying it should be kept out. In that sense, I can understand the sense in waving goodbye to it. Unless England starts being like 60%+ Remain, it will continue to fester, poisoning Europe for many years/decades to come.

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    5. Away from the strange anti English rant, still does not change the fact that an extension will be given.

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    6. You are going to have to point out the 'Anti-English' bit.

      Are we not allowed to mention the 'E' word? No criticism of the English UK government allowed? They can shit all over Scotland, make threats against the neighbors, force my wife to apply to live in her own home (and when she doesn't even live in their country) and we're not allowed to talk about that in direct terms because we're Scots?

      The brexit situation is entirely England's making. It's not about Britain. The Welsh government have not had a say at all so we can't even include them. The whole think has been the work of the EVEL English government.

      This is the racism at the heart of the UK. If an Englishman complains about the UK/English government, it's fine. If a Scot complains about the very same government which rules Scotland, they're 'anti-English'.

      It really is one rule for English people, another for everyone else.

      ---

      And I note I've clearly said 'England' the country with its government. No country is free from criticism.

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    7. I trust you see the English Guardian newspaper and it's English writers as anti-English?

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/01/remainers-europe-excise-british-cancer

      Remainers, take note: much of Europe just wants to excise the British cancer

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    8. There is no English Government, there is a UK Government. That article does not say English it says British.

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    9. You'd have never called me anti-English for those comments if I was English.

      It's not me that's racist.

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    10. There is no English government. Who are you actually trying to delude here? Yourself?

      85% of MPs are English. The entire cabinet is English.

      Do you think it's the Welsh ruling England? The jocks? The tooth fairy? EVEL just firms that up, ensuring the jocks/micks/taffs get nowhere near the top jobs going forward.

      Jesus wept.

      Britain = England + Wales. Great Britain is Scotland added. Then you need to add NI which isn't british or great British.

      It's why England / Britain are synonymous.

      Unless you serious think the Guardian is calling Scotland a cancer at the heart of Europe? That the writer was thinking of voters there when penning the article? Sorry, deluding yourself this was the case?

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    11. err do you know me? Are you spying on me? monitoring every comment i make on the internet and then discovering that I only call people out for being anti Engish if they are not English?

      That would be the only way that you would be able to make that claim.

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    12. There is no English government. There is a UK Government. Now matter how much you witter on that fact it does not change.

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    13. All you do is make yourself look dishonest by continuing with this colonial pretense.

      Simply calling it British doesn't hide what it is.

      It's an insult to people's intelligence.

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    14. Skier:
      Geographical terms:
      Great Britain = England + Wales + Scotland.
      Little Britain (archaic) = Ireland.
      The British Isles = England + Wales + Scotland + Ireland.

      Political terms:
      United Kingdom (1707-1805) = England + Wales + Scotland.
      United Kingdom (1805-1923) = England + Wales + Scotland + Ireland.
      United Kingdom (1923- 2019) = England + Wales + Scotland + Northern Ireland.

      Im not sure how anyone could think that Britain was only ever England + Wales.

      The linguistic situation before the Scots, Jutes, Angles, Saxons and Norse arrived in the British Isles was that the British AKA Brythonic language (with possible Pictish variants) was spoken throughout Great Britain. This was the ancestor of Modern Welsh, Cornish and Breton.

      Maybe that's what got you mixed up.

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    15. If it was just an 'English' Parliament then we would of left the Eu before. If it was not for votes from Scotish/Welsh/NI MP's voting against Mays deal at the third attempt it would of passed. But because its a UK Parliament and Scottish/Welsh/NI Mp's could vote they managed to stop it being passed.

      You make yourself look dishonest by ignoring this fact.

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    16. I honestly can't believe you are trying to say Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland have an equal say on things when England has 82% of MPs.

      That somehow the parliament is British in that it represents all nations equally.

      But enough. We're just going around in circles.

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    17. Britain (Roman) = England and Wales

      Britain (commonly used modern English term) = England (+/- Wales)

      The latter is why you can read a story about the 'UK/British NHS' which isn't about the Scottish, N. Irish or Welsh NHS at all, but about the English NHS.

      Also why you can be the 'UK/British Health Secretary' which is of course the English health secretary.

      Or maybe 'British high speed rail' being extended to the 'far north'. Which means Leeds...

      And so forth. English / British are interchangeable in England, and it's not really incorrect.

      As Boris said, the English don't need a parliament as they already have one.

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    18. To the Romans, Britannia = England + Wales + Scotland.

      Haven't ever heard E&W referred to as "Britain" but I'll listen out for it.

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    19. Skier it would have been nice if a railway had been built to Glesga Airport but the Nat sis cancelled it after millions spent on property to make way for it. The good thing about the Romans is they actually told the inhabitants that their was another world beyond their ten mile radius.

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    20. And they let their soldiers touch up jock missuses fuds. The jock wives loved it. Their Jocks were too drunk to give them a good plug.

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  24. America China and the EU are the worlds biggest economies @53%
    The UK who never shut up with their nonsense about being the fifth biggest economy in the world are 2% so more than a tad behind the size of their big mouths

    BMW did a valuation of losses on a no deal Brexit scenario and the figures worked out that to make up for the losses they would incur over withdrawing from the UK are that if BMW increase the price of every vehicle they sell around the world by 7 Euros they would not lose one cent

    That's how much the UK is worth to the German motor industry 7 Euros

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    Replies
    1. It is international capitalism that runs the major companies. The USA run the major pharmaceuticals.

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    2. I use Viagra a lot when I'm plugging Jocks wives. They get nothing cause the Jocks are flat out drunk and can't get it up. I plug 12 a night that's why I use the USA pharmaceuticals to keep the rocket to attention si he can please the next jock wife. There gagging for me.

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